Toigo's fight for justice

[nivek_wahs]

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/sports/story.html?id=dcaed4c9-3bac-4505-99ce-e19972e30cba&k=81277


Toigo's fight for justice
Owner angry that Ellerby isn't suspended for gesture

Steve Ewen, The Province
Published: Tuesday, February 13, 2007

Vancouver Giants owner Ron Toigo isn't happy with the WHL head office and isn't hiding the fact.

Toigo was fuming with news that league-discipline czar Richard Doerksen couldn't find video evidence of Kamloops Blazers defenceman Keaton Ellerby making a throat-slashing gesture at the Giants bench during a routine video check of a penalty-filled 5-1 Vancouver win at the Pacific Coliseum Friday night.

Toigo says the Giants have it on video, and will be sending that to the league in hopes of getting a suspension for Ellerby. He'll also send a cheque along for $500, which is what it costs to get a supplementary discipline review.

"I don't know about angry ... we're more disappointed," Toigo said when asked about his mood. "This is not over with. It has to be looked at in terms of the big picture and what it means to the league. It's not the image the league wants.

"We're not done. This is too big of an issue to be blown off like yesterday's news."

Ellerby, 18, seemed to motioning to Giants winger Michael Wuchterl, 19. He had just easily handled Kamloops rookie winger Alex Rodgers, 17, in a fight. Rodgers was being helped off the ice with a shoulder injury.

Blazers coach Dean Clark told the Kamloops Daily News Monday, though, that Ellerby was reacting to a similar throat-slashing move he was getting from Giants centre Tim Kraus, 19, who was on the bench.

Kraus, who was in among a group of players, couldn't be clearly seen from the press box at the time.

"There was nothing reviewable," said Clark, who talked to Doerksen, a WHL vice-president, on Saturday. "Kraus did the same thing to Ellerby. Kraus did it first."

Toigo denied any involvement from Kraus, saying, "That's always the excuse, somebody else did it first."

Adding to all of this is that Toigo thought the league came down too hard on Giants winger Michal Repik, 18, giving him two games for a checking-from-behind major in a 7-1 win over the Portland Winter Hawks Jan. 31. The defenceman Repik hit, 17-year-old Bo Montgomery, who was helped off the ice but did come back to play that night.

"They have no trouble suspending our best player for an inadvertent act," said Toigo. "This act [by Ellerby] certainly wasn't inadvertent."

steve.ewen@gmail.com


© The Vancouver Province 2007

[Tipped Off]

Cutting their own throats?
Ian Walker, Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, February 13, 2007
The Vancouver Giants will be appealing the WHL's decision not to discipline Kamloops' Keaton Ellerby for a throat-slashing gesture at the Giants bench in the final minutes of the Blazers' 5-1 loss to Vancouver Friday. "As a league, we advocate to be responsible for our actions," said Giants owner Ron Toigo. "But when an irresponsible action occurs it turns out to be just lip service."

[old_time_hockey]

This all is starting to smell like the Bertuzzi incident. No action taken by the league. So what is left? Go see if he has the stones to back up his jesture the next time the teams meet. Which I doubt he has.

The thing that will stop revenge is they are locked in a battle for 1st. But if the score of the next game is out of reach one way or another, hope things don't get out of hand.

[Kamfan]

This all is starting to smell like the Bertuzzi incident. No action taken by the league. So what is left? Go see if he has the stones to back up his jesture the next time the teams meet. Which I doubt he has.

The thing that will stop revenge is they are locked in a battle for 1st. But if the score of the next game is out of reach one way or another, hope things don't get out of hand.

Ellerby isn't the toughest guy around but he can handle himself. I'm sure he wouldn't turn down a go with Kraus if offered.

I don't doubt Kraus made the same gesture, but Ellerby made the mistake of being in full view of the crowd when he did it. He probably should get a suspension if he made the same gesture as Worrell did when he got suspended.

[Hunt24]

If you think Ellerby will get off with squaring off with Kraus, you're kidding yourself. I'm sure Milan Lucic will be more than happy to give Ellerby a chance to show how tough he is.

Ask Kyle Beach how that went for him.

[Kamfan]

If you think Ellerby will get off with squaring off with Kraus, you're kidding yourself. I'm sure Milan Lucic will be more than happy to give Ellerby a chance to show how tough he is.

Ask Kyle Beach how that went for him.

Why would Lucic need to fight Kraus's battles any more than Kassian should fight Ellerby's?

[old_time_hockey]

Why would Lucic need to fight Kraus's battles any more than Kassian should fight Ellerby's?

Why did Gretzky has Semenko or McSorley?

You want to be a clown on the ice, you get to pay up to the toughguy. That is the role of the enforcer. If you want to threaten our players, you have to fight Lucic. Doesn't matter how tough you are or you think you are. Makes you think twice before doing something stupid.

This is the exact reason the instigator rule needs to be turfed. That way people would actually have to pay the piper. And people like Beach couldn't get away with the crap that he pulls.

[Hunt24]

I'm not even sure how you got Kraus involved in this. The gesture, according to reports, was made first towards Wuchterl after he destroyed his willing dance partner Rodgers, and then second towards the entire bench. The Kamloops coach has only said that Kraus did it first yet there's no video evidence of that and no Kamloops player has made mention of that since.

If Ellerby's going to run his mouth and do things towards the bench, Lucic will be the guy that answers.

[Kamfan]

OK, you're right. It really should be Wuchterl. Whether he happened to be standing on the ice or the bench at the time Ellerby made the gesture is unimportant. It's been well established he was taking issue with Wuchterl in particular and wasn't gesturing towards the team in general.

[Kamfan]

Why did Gretzky has Semenko or McSorley?

You want to be a clown on the ice, you get to pay up to the toughguy. That is the role of the enforcer. If you want to threaten our players, you have to fight Lucic.


If Ellerby wants to call out Wuchterl for tuning a smaller, younger, non-fighter, he should fight Lucic?

[Hunt24]

Umm, from the above article:

"Toigo was fuming with news that league-discipline czar Richard Doerksen couldn't find video evidence of Kamloops Blazers defenceman Keaton Ellerby making a throat-slashing gesture at the Giants bench during a routine video check of a penalty-filled 5-1 Vancouver win at the Pacific Coliseum Friday night."

It's been reported in both papers he did it twice. Once at Wuchterl and once at the bench. If it had only been to Wookie, then yeah, it would be up to him to do the bidding. But doing it towards the team, means you'll answer to who they choose. Wookie's no wuss, but Lucic is undoubtedly one of the leaders in the dressing room and isn't gonna stand for what Ellerby did to his teammates.

[Kamfan]

Umm, from the above article:

"Toigo was fuming with news that league-discipline czar Richard Doerksen couldn't find video evidence of Kamloops Blazers defenceman Keaton Ellerby making a throat-slashing gesture at the Giants bench during a routine video check of a penalty-filled 5-1 Vancouver win at the Pacific Coliseum Friday night."

It's been reported in both papers he did it twice. Once at Wuchterl and once at the bench. If it had only been to Wookie, then yeah, it would be up to him to do the bidding. But doing it towards the team, means you'll answer to who they choose. Wookie's no wuss, but Lucic is undoubtedly one of the leaders in the dressing room and isn't gonna stand for what Ellerby did to his teammates.

If he did do it towards the entire team, that's a different story. It's definitely odd though with the number of cameras in the building (being that it was a Shaw TV game) and Ellerby being in plain sight, that the league didn't have video evidence of it.

I think we really should see it before drawing any conclusions. If Ron's the only one who has it and he's already gone to the papers to vent, you'd think he'd be eager to release the video to the media. Hopefully he does.

[Trav]

So the league suspends Klotz for giving the finger but yet they sit there and do nothing when a player does the throat slashing gesture lol. Oh boy, thats really hard to believe but then again maybe not.

Sometimes wonder if the league are high on something when it comes to suspensions and hiring refs.

[rinkrat]

So the league suspends Klotz for giving the finger but yet they sit there and do nothing when a player does the throat slashing gesture lol. Oh boy, thats really hard to believe but then again maybe not.

Sometimes wonder if the league are high on something when it comes to suspensions and hiring refs.

Actually Kamloops' Rohac was flipping the bird to the fans that game too.He's lucky that wasn't reported.
The Blazers sure showed their frustrations that game.

[Knuckles Muldoon]

One thought: Over-reaction.
Captain Ron is out of line in my opinion to make an issue of this. Hell, if I hadn't read about this in the paper, I wouldn't have known that it happened at all because I missed it at the time. No, gestures like this aren't good for the league and they should be addressed. But making a mountain out of a molehill isn't good for the league either. The league should indeed view the tape, note any players making the throat-slash gesture (Ellerby and perhaps Kraus) and Ron Robison should give these young men a quiet, late-night phone call to explain that these actions are not acceptable, will not be tolerated any further and that they are on notice for any future repeat of this conduct, which would result in suspension. And leave it at that. Suspensions from the initial incident last Friday are not necessary. Actually, I'm quite disappointed in Toigo making a loud issue if this incident. A dumb move by a guy who's usually pretty smart.

[scamperdog]

One thought: Over-reaction.
Captain Ron is out of line in my opinion to make an issue of this. Hell, if I hadn't read about this in the paper, I wouldn't have known that it happened at all because I missed it at the time. No, gestures like this aren't good for the league and they should be addressed. But making a mountain out of a molehill isn't good for the league either. The league should indeed view the tape, note any players making the throat-slash gesture (Ellerby and perhaps Kraus) and Ron Robison should give these young men a quiet, late-night phone call to explain that these actions are not acceptable, will not be tolerated any further and that they are on notice for any future repeat of this conduct, which would result in suspension. And leave it at that. Suspensions from the initial incident last Friday are not necessary. Actually, I'm quite disappointed in Toigo making a loud issue if this incident. A dumb move by a guy who's usually pretty smart.

Well said.

[nelson951]

Toigo is a whiner. No visits to White Spot for me until he smartens up

[Kassian]

One thought: Over-reaction.
Captain Ron is out of line in my opinion to make an issue of this. Hell, if I hadn't read about this in the paper, I wouldn't have known that it happened at all because I missed it at the time. No, gestures like this aren't good for the league and they should be addressed. But making a mountain out of a molehill isn't good for the league either. The league should indeed view the tape, note any players making the throat-slash gesture (Ellerby and perhaps Kraus) and Ron Robison should give these young men a quiet, late-night phone call to explain that these actions are not acceptable, will not be tolerated any further and that they are on notice for any future repeat of this conduct, which would result in suspension. And leave it at that. Suspensions from the initial incident last Friday are not necessary. Actually, I'm quite disappointed in Toigo making a loud issue if this incident. A dumb move by a guy who's usually pretty smart.

I agree. To me it's pointless to make an issue out of something that was done in the heat of the moment and ultimately didn't hurt anybody. That being said I've never been a fan of taking the emotion out of the game and personally I like this kind of stuff. It just makes the next meeting between the two teams even more exciting.

[scamperdog]

I agree. To me it's pointless to make an issue out of something that was done in the heat of the moment and ultimately didn't hurt anybody. That being said I've never been a fan of taking the emotion out of the game and personally I like this kind of stuff. It just makes the next meeting between the two teams even more exciting.
If anything Toigo is keeping the actions of the game in the spotlight, in the minds of his players and that is a positive for the next game, plus it never hurts to fill more seats when there is a major hate between Van and Kam

[dondo]

One thought: Over-reaction.
Captain Ron is out of line in my opinion to make an issue of this. Hell, if I hadn't read about this in the paper, I wouldn't have known that it happened at all because I missed it at the time. No, gestures like this aren't good for the league and they should be addressed. But making a mountain out of a molehill isn't good for the league either. The league should indeed view the tape, note any players making the throat-slash gesture (Ellerby and perhaps Kraus) and Ron Robison should give these young men a quiet, late-night phone call to explain that these actions are not acceptable, will not be tolerated any further and that they are on notice for any future repeat of this conduct, which would result in suspension. And leave it at that. Suspensions from the initial incident last Friday are not necessary. Actually, I'm quite disappointed in Toigo making a loud issue if this incident. A dumb move by a guy who's usually pretty smart.

Thanks Knuckles -- I agree completely -- this is being made too much of imo -- its not that big a deal -- are we so PC as to take a throat slashing sign as anything but an over-heated reaction to a line brawl?? Toigo is over-reacting, but for what purpose I am not sure.

also Kamfan -- Wuchterl did take on Rodgers and soundly beat him, but unlike Bender who saw fit to continue beating his opponent when he was down, Wuchterl did the right thing and laid off immediately. Frankly I'd rather see people up in arms about what Bender did as opposed to what Ellerby did.

[Kassian]

If anything Toigo is keeping the actions of the game in the spotlight, in the minds of his players and that is a positive for the next game, plus it never hurts to fill more seats when there is a major hate between Van and Kam

I suppose so. I guess I'm just so used to the NHL where someone like Ellerby would definitely be suspended and warned not to play physical the next time these two team meet in fear of any hard feelings being carried over. God knows the crowd wouldn't want something to cheer about... :dead:

[hockey4]

One thought: Over-reaction.
Captain Ron is out of line in my opinion to make an issue of this. Hell, if I hadn't read about this in the paper, I wouldn't have known that it happened at all because I missed it at the time. No, gestures like this aren't good for the league and they should be addressed. But making a mountain out of a molehill isn't good for the league either. The league should indeed view the tape, note any players making the throat-slash gesture (Ellerby and perhaps Kraus) and Ron Robison should give these young men a quiet, late-night phone call to explain that these actions are not acceptable, will not be tolerated any further and that they are on notice for any future repeat of this conduct, which would result in suspension. And leave it at that. Suspensions from the initial incident last Friday are not necessary. Actually, I'm quite disappointed in Toigo making a loud issue if this incident. A dumb move by a guy who's usually pretty smart.

Yah im not a fan of Owners, whose title is only owner/governer, taking an active role in the organization. To me it shows lack of respect for your staff. Could Don Hay not talk to the media about it. Ever since Toigo "bought" the mem. cup, i have not been a fan. i know some of you giant fans wont like that, but its hard to deny. Then the whole comment about Fistric with the world juniors, and now this. I personally think he knows nothing about hockey, and just talks in the media for his own publicity.

[N.W. Bruin]

One thought: Over-reaction.
Captain Ron is out of line in my opinion to make an issue of this. Hell, if I hadn't read about this in the paper, I wouldn't have known that it happened at all because I missed it at the time. No, gestures like this aren't good for the league and they should be addressed. But making a mountain out of a molehill isn't good for the league either. The league should indeed view the tape, note any players making the throat-slash gesture (Ellerby and perhaps Kraus) and Ron Robison should give these young men a quiet, late-night phone call to explain that these actions are not acceptable, will not be tolerated any further and that they are on notice for any future repeat of this conduct, which would result in suspension. And leave it at that. Suspensions from the initial incident last Friday are not necessary. Actually, I'm quite disappointed in Toigo making a loud issue if this incident. A dumb move by a guy who's usually pretty smart.


Worse than yapping at each other by players but it is overblown. And I saw the Ellerby move as almost right in front of my seat. I have seen worse out on the ice. The only response should be on the ice by the players. Beat Kamloops in the next game. This sort of thing I expect out of Everett and Kevin C. but not the Giants. Let the fans shower Ellerby with boos the next time he is here.

[Kamfan]

also Kamfan -- Wuchterl did take on Rodgers and soundly beat him, but unlike Bender who saw fit to continue beating his opponent when he was down, Wuchterl did the right thing and laid off immediately. Frankly I'd rather see people up in arms about what Bender did as opposed to what Ellerby did.

I'm not a fan of what Bender did either (I said exactly that to my friend at the game), but before you give Wuchterl the sportsmanship award, consider that:

1) Wuchterl took on such a clearly unwilling opponent in the first place. At least Thelen was willing.
2) Wuchterl saw fit to fight a guy he has 40 pounds on. Thelen is of Bender's size if not larger.
3) Wuchterl laid 3 major shots on Rodgers after he separated his shoulder - 2 of them as he laid defenseless on the ice.
4) once finished with Rodgers, Wuchterl immediately went looking to get involved in another fight, which drew a linesman who would otherwise have stopped the Bender/Thelen fight after Bender dropped him.

[Beaner]

Well, watching the video clip, it clearly shows Bender being the last man into the scrum along the boards and pulling Wuchterl out of it.

If he didn't want to go, then he shouldn't have gone into the pile up along the boards, or at least should have picked an opponent more in his weight class.
Bender grabbed Wuchterl, not the other way around.

As to the extra shots, Wuchterl did give Bender at least 2 when he was down, until the camera panned away.

[Kassian]

I'm assuming you mean Thelen, not Wuchterl.

[Kamfan]

He means Rodgers, not Bender.

He only went in there to grab Wuchterl to prevent him from double-teaming a teammate (which any good teammate would). I don't see how that translates to: he has to fight him. It certainly wasn't a 5 on 5 brawl at that point. For all he knew it was just a standard scrum.

[dondo]

yeah Kamfan I saw Wuchterl looking for another fight, but I think he was probably looking for Bender (or any willing combatant) -- It was a line brawl, everybody fights and Rodgers was not shying away.

Of course Wuchterl will not earn the WHL equivalent of the Lady Byng, but the fact that he backed off as soon as Rodgers was vulnerable means that he at least was following the code, and you and I both know that what Bender did was gutless and uncalled for and that's the kind of thing there is no place for in hockey.

[Kassian]

1) Wuchterl took on such a clearly unwilling opponent in the first place. At least Thelen was willing.

Thelen didn't really have a choice. It was a line brawl, everybody just paired off. This was only Thelen's 3rd fight in the WHL. And he was jumped in his 2nd WHL fight.


3) Wuchterl laid 3 major shots on Rodgers after he separated his shoulder - 2 of them as he laid defenseless on the ice.

Wuchterl stopped pretty quickly. I've seen much worse in the past and nobody made a big deal about it back then. So this shouldn't even be an issue, IMO.


]4) once finished with Rodgers, Wuchterl immediately went looking to get involved in another fight, which drew a linesman who would otherwise have stopped the Bender/Thelen fight after Bender dropped him.

Probably because Wuchterl was one of the only Giants players on the ice that is actually known and able to scrap. While Kamloops certainly didn't have their toughest line up out there they still had guys that have fought before in the past and are able to do so in Bender, Shattock and even Ellerby.

[Kamfan]

yeah Kamfan I saw Wuchterl looking for another fight, but I think he was probably looking for Bender (or any willing combatant) -- It was a line brawl, everybody fights and Rodgers was not shying away.

Of course Wuchterl will not earn the WHL equivalent of the Lady Byng, but the fact that he backed off as soon as Rodgers was vulnerable means that he at least was following the code, and you and I both know that what Bender did was gutless and uncalled for and that's the kind of thing there is no place for in hockey.

Check the video. Rodgers did not want to fight. He was just holding on. They both were for about 30 seconds before Wuchterl starting throwing punches all of a sudden. And it wasn't a line brawl at the point Rodgers entered it. At that point it was just a scrum that could happen a dozen times a game. And don't tell me you've never seen an instance where 2, 3 or 4 pairs of guys fight but the remaining players just pair off and make sure the other doesn't get involved. Not every multiple fight instance turns into a line brawl.

Again check the video. Wuchterl laid two haymakers on Rodgers as he lay on the ice, making no attempt to get up. He doesn't get a free pass IMO. Rodgers stopped fighting while he was still standing. The last 2 punches were uncalled for. Watch the video again and see if you still disagree.

And I already said Bender went too far. What more do you want?

[Kamfan]

Thelen didn't really have a choice. It was a line brawl, everybody just paired off. This was only Thelen's 3rd fight in the WHL. And he was jumped in his 2nd WHL fight.

You could be right there, but I wouldn't compare the Bender/Thelen mismatch to that of Rodgers/Wuchterl. Thelen's 2 previous fights were two more than Rodgers and Thelen and Bender are of similar size and age. Rodgers and Wuchterhl are clearly not.


Wuchterl stopped pretty quickly. I've seen much worse in the past and nobody made a big deal about it back then. So this shouldn't even be an issue, IMO.

I have no doubt you've seen worse. Doesn't make this the best. Check the video and tell me those last 2 punches were necessary.


Probably because Wuchterl was one of the only Giants players on the ice that is actually known and able to scrap. While Kamloops certainly didn't have their toughest line up out there they still had guys that have fought before in the past and are able to do so in Bender, Shattock and even Ellerby.

I don't doubt that was his rationale. Fact remains he did it. And it pulled away a linesman who would've been pulling Bender off Thelen much sooner. Plus it sure the hell pissed off Herman.

[dondo]

And I already said Bender went too far. What more do you want?

nothing more kamfan -- I was just pointing out that you admitted it.


Plus it sure the hell pissed off Herman.

well Herman pissed me off so I think we are even on that count .. he is the cause of the line brawl by failing to pick one player earlier on instead of all the lame coincidental penalties as the rough stuff after the play was most definitely being instigated by the Blazers. by not calling them on it early he set-up the atmosphere for the line-brawl.

Rodgers is not blameless, he hurt his shoulder some time in there and I do not think that Wuchterl took advantage of that, but whatever. The only thing I do know is that when Rodgers said enough Wuchterl stopped.

The throat slashing thing doesn't bother me in the least.

This is why I hate the instigator penalty as it is always better to allow the players to police themselves.. its far more effective and efficient. With the instigator penalty the player who comes to the rescue of his team-mate is punished for his loyalty this is ridiculous to the extreme and encourages pests and cheap-shot artists to flourish.

[Kamfan]

nothing more kamfan -- I was just pointing out that you admitted it.
Don't know why that's necessary. I don't remember denying it. But no big deal.



Rodgers is not blameless, he hurt his shoulder some time in there
So you blame Rodgers for...separating his shoulder?


and I do not think that Wuchterl took advantage of that
The 2 punches while Rodgers was on the ice say different.



The only thing I do know is that when Rodgers said enough Wuchterl stopped.
Only if he said it while face down.



This is why I hate the instigator penalty as it is always better to allow the players to police themselves.. its far more effective and efficient. With the instigator penalty the player who comes to the rescue of his team-mate is punished for his loyalty this is ridiculous to the extreme and encourages pests and cheap-shot artists to flourish.
Totally agree. Just not sure how that fits in here.

[dondo]

Wuchterl did not punch Rodgers when he was on the ice -- as soon as Rodgers went down Wuchterl put away the cocked fist and skated off looking for another partner.

the instigator comment fed into the shoddy reffing and how dumb the game has gotten under the tiny little foot of bettman.

no i don't blame Rodgers for separating his shoulder but neither do I blame Wuchterl -- anyway whatever .. we'll leave it at that.

[Kamfan]

Wuchterl did not punch Rodgers when he was on the ice

Watch the right of the screen at the 39 second mark...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zooY1rJ6r_c

[dondo]

you're right -- I could have sworn that he backed off as soon as Rodgers was on the ice -- not sure why he did that and frankly that sucks .

However, early on in the scrum by the boards Rodgers was right in there pulling at bodies so he is not blameless in this either. Sucks that Wuchterl gave him those two shots, I was watching that battle from my seat and I must have missed the two punches before he backed off.

Hopefully this stuff will just add emotion to the next time they mix it up and not have anybody headhunting or seeking revenge.

[byrdman25]

This was a deliberate move by the Blazers to try and get something positive out of the game, they waited until there was 3 obviuos nonfighters -Franson Repik, and rookie Wright- out there, as well as Thelen, a basic nonfighter, and then Wuchterel. They attack Repik, ok he defended Brule (was it?) last year but got beaten bad. Go after Franson, he may be big but hitting and anything rough is not his forte. This was a lowly attempt at salvaging themselves from huniliation. As for Wuchterl, he was pulled out by a player during a brawl, this player had to know a fight would ensue or he could have skated to his bench, he picked the fight and lost. Wuchterel's seemuingly atrocious hits to the fallen Blazer were actually, if you watch, hits to a falling player, which occurs in every other hockey fight. Once the Blazer hit the ice the Giant skated away. As for the attack on Thelen, he was down and out on the ice and the Blazer continued to mercylessly pummel him, further evidence to the Blazers attempting to salvage something out of nothing with complete disregard to any unwritten codes of conduct, and sense of fair play. Yes Toigo is loud and a bit of a winer, he is also sticking up for his people through proper channels, not cowardly acts. Kamloops hang your heads in shame while our rivalry continues to grow. Here is to many more years of love and hate, see you at the game.

[Kamfan]

This was a deliberate move by the Blazers to try and get something positive out of the game, they waited until there was 3 obviuos nonfighters -Franson Repik, and rookie Wright- out there, as well as Thelen, a basic nonfighter, and then Wuchterel. They attack Repik, ok he defended Brule (was it?) last year but got beaten bad. Go after Franson, he may be big but hitting and anything rough is not his forte. This was a lowly attempt at salvaging themselves from huniliation. As for Wuchterl, he was pulled out by a player during a brawl, this player had to know a fight would ensue or he could have skated to his bench, he picked the fight and lost. Wuchterel's seemuingly atrocious hits to the fallen Blazer were actually, if you watch, hits to a falling player, which occurs in every other hockey fight. Once the Blazer hit the ice the Giant skated away. As for the attack on Thelen, he was down and out on the ice and the Blazer continued to mercylessly pummel him, further evidence to the Blazers attempting to salvage something out of nothing with complete disregard to any unwritten codes of conduct, and sense of fair play. Yes Toigo is loud and a bit of a winer, he is also sticking up for his people through proper channels, not cowardly acts. Kamloops hang your heads in shame while our rivalry continues to grow. Here is to many more years of love and hate, see you at the game.

You could not be more wrong with your completely one-sided Giants-biased view. But this has already been settled. Just do us all a favor and read the thread up to this point and be done with it.

[rinkrat]

Won't be long we'll have another game to "discuss". The 25th,should be a huge crowd again as its "unused ticket" game and a 5PM start. :)