rebels discussion

[charlie]

i would like to have an honest discussion about the state of our team without any name calling or flaming. we are all rebels fans here.

i am concerned about the current state of our team. as i look at the roster i sure hope that jd watt shows up here or brandon is going to have a very long season...we have some kids and kids with good pedigree (ferraro) but mostly kids with promise. sure doucet, wray and betts played last year and mostly played well however i don't see much of a first or second line, although if starkov returns that will be a big help. on defence, morin was good last year and kot played well in the playoffs but things get thin pretty quickly after those two. reimer and clark are going to have to be very good in net...till now they have both been pretty hot and cold.

when i look at the drafting the last big year was 2000 when we drafted fraser and phaneuf and drew stafford although he never played here. sure 2001 had teddy vandermeer and jared walker but neither became top flight players. blair jones did his best work in moose jaw. 2002 was very weak. in 2003 we got reimer and leblanc both of whom are in the process of trying to prove themselves, one here and the other somewhere else. we got brandon in 2004 and 2005 gave us kot, mappin and scarborough...none of whom have proven themselves yet. i feel the draft has been very poor since 2000.

the trades...the trades. it looks like we are into another summer purge of guys who don't want to be here or can't play here. there are not many memorable trades that come to my mind but i'm old and forgetful so maybe someone can comment favourably about the trades. i do know that trading up to get brandon was great and cline for hanzel also was an outstanding trade. before that they are mostly forgettable...trading pluggers for similar types and there have been a lot of trades.

i'm saying that we had a great year winning the memorial cup in 2001 and a couple of pretty good years after although i think the matt keith for doug lynch trade possibly cost us another title. since then, things have not been so good and i struggle to think next year will be any better. i know some will say it's not all about the winning and losing...but really it kinda is. the rebels under the simpsons were mediocre and i think the rebels under brent sutter are in the same boat.

if you disagree i would like to hear your thoughts, if you agree what do you think might change things for the better.

cheers all

[SectionNDeserter]

i am concerned about the current state of our team. as i look at the roster i sure hope that jd watt shows up here or brandon is going to have a very long season...Unless Watt makes the Flames roster somehow in training camp, I think that it is almost certain that he will be heading back here, given the relationship between the Rebels and the Flames. :D

we have some kids and kids with good pedigree (ferraro) but mostly kids with promise. sure doucet, wray and betts played last year and mostly played well however i don't see much of a first or second line, although if starkov returns that will be a big help.There isn't really any reason why Doucet for sure couldn't play on the first or second line, he has good wheels, is ok on faceoffs, and has astonishing eye-hand coordination. If Wray and/or Betts have improved any on last season, they could definately fill in on the second line as well.

on defence, morin was good last year and kot played well in the playoffs but things get thin pretty quickly after those two.The prospect of Egener being one of the 'leaders' on the team is sort of disturbing to me. We have some skilled defensemen, and we will likely see Brandon back on the point for the powerplay, so we really only need one more defenseman that is capable of playing (though not necessarily quarterbacking) the second power play unit. I have a feeling that a 19 or 20 year old defenseman is yet to be acquired (has Sutter ever had a team without an overage defenseman?).

when i look at the drafting the last big year was 2000 when we drafted fraser and phaneuf and drew stafford although he never played here. sure 2001 had teddy vandermeer and jared walker but neither became top flight players. blair jones did his best work in moose jaw. 2002 was very weak. in 2003 we got reimer and leblanc both of whom are in the process of trying to prove themselves, one here and the other somewhere else. we got brandon in 2004 and 2005 gave us kot, mappin and scarborough...none of whom have proven themselves yet. i feel the draft has been very poor since 2000.I would have to disagree on some points. Reimer, Brandon Sutter and Kot have handled themselves very well at every level of hockey they have played at so far. Mappin looked great when he was here, which leads me to believe that his attitude had more to do with his demotion. Also keep in mind that we finished quite high up in the standings in most of the seasons that you mentioned and lower in the seasons that we picked better. They just had less to work with than some other teams by the time our picks rolled around in the seasons that we drafted duds like Kurceba, Cline and Walker.

the trades...the trades. it looks like we are into another summer purge of guys who don't want to be here or can't play here.This is not something that the Rebels have cornered the market on--most teams in the league have to clean house on some players in the summer that just don't fit in their plans anymore. We are fortunate that most, if not all of the time the players that we are losing are not key players on the team like some of the other teams.

there are not many memorable trades that come to my mind but i'm old and forgetful so maybe someone can comment favourably about the trades. i do know that trading up to get brandon was great and cline for hanzel also was an outstanding trade. before that they are mostly forgettable...trading pluggers for similar types and there have been a lot of trades.We have had a few trades that were pretty lopsided in our favor. Getting Cunning for a 4th round pick was pretty big, as well as the Hanzal for Cline trade. Paul Kurceba for Brett Sutter? I think most fans you talk to will tell you that we fleeced Moose Jaw on two occasions in the last 2 seasons. Once sending a brutal backup goaltender (that was pretty much on the verge of just getting released) and an overage defenseman that had like 4pts and was -9, for a goaltender that stood on his head and almost lead us into the playoffs despite a dreadful first half, and a defenseman that carried the load as our #1 defenseman the following season. And this past season we traded a struggling Knackstedt for a player in basically an identical situation in Moose Jaw, and an outstanding puck-moving defenseman. It wasn't a trade, but the addition of Dustin Moore for nothing was pretty big as well. The only trade that I didn't totally agree with in recent history was when we traded Zetariuk (as blueline depth was a big problem for us for the next 2 seasons, and he just continued to get better and better).

i'm saying that we had a great year winning the memorial cup in 2001 and a couple of pretty good years after although i think the matt keith for doug lynch trade possibly cost us another title.We had incredible blueline depth that season (Lynch, Woywitka, Thoma, Meech, and an outstanding rookie Phaneuf), and Lynch's defensive numbers were the worst on the team--and while he was putting up lots of points, defensively he closely resembled Kyle Kos. Matt Keith had 51pts in 49 games, and was actually defensively responsible.

since then, things have not been so good and i struggle to think next year will be any better. i know some will say it's not all about the winning and losing...but really it kinda is. the rebels under the simpsons were mediocre and i think the rebels under brent sutter are in the same boat.The WHL is a developmental league, and the Brent Sutter led Rebels have developed way more quality NHL players than they ever did under the Simpsons (its not even close), and a lot more than most other teams in the league. I personally don't expect them to win the league championship every year, because of the quick player turnover in the WHL, and to a lesser extent how the draft is structured to discourage it. I will start to hit the panic button when they miss the playoffs every season for over a decade (like the Tigers). Also remember that we were just this close to eliminating the eventual league champions in game 7, that doesn't sound like a struggling team to me.

[3rebels]

Amen SND, and what about Germyn for Bendura. The goalie in the wings ???
Wardo. The Rebs have done pretty decent over the last 4 years. You can't reasonably expect a team to be the "best" team every year. I like the product on-ice and as a STH am satisfied with the direction our team is going in.
nhl 3

[rebelfan]

I was sorry to see Pighin and Poulter go. Poulter especially didn't seem to get the breaks. I think he has way more talent than he gets credit for. I disagree that our goalies were hot and cold. Clark was very young and on several ocassions showed what he will be capable of in the future. Reimer made the top 3 goaltenders for a big chunk of the season and slumped a little at the end but he was still around the top 10. I think only Irving and Sexsmith were higher in the standings otherwise all the top spots above him were held by older goalies. The Leafs must see some prospect in Reimer. They did not draft a goalie at this year's draft and rumours have it that Reimer has been offered a contract.

I agree Sutter has developed his players into NHL material over the years and while he's rough on the kids, he also knows how hard you have to play to win.