We win and lose as a team?

[rebelfan]

Just like there is no 'I' in team, there is no 'Brandon' in team either. I am rather disturbed that Bryan seems to lump his players in groups. 'Brandon can't do it by himself', 'the young kids are going to make mistakes' and 'the older guys didn't show up tonight'. These are all true statements in themselves I am sure at some given moment in time. However, that in my opinion is not how you build a team. I am concerned that so much onus is put on a player like Brandon. It is not fair to single him out like that. Brandon is a good hockey player but I don't know that he has ever carried the team single handedly through a game yet his name is mentioned after almost every game as the one guy who worked. Tonight Brandon scored but it was one goal, too late to change the course of history. And someone had to get the puck out of our end, someone passed it to Brandon. Yet these guys are shamed and labeled as not showing up. If Brandon is the franchise player, and the success of the team rests on his shoulders, then there is your achilles heel and this team will never be successful until the worth of the team as a whole is considered.

I am not sure what was meant by the statement that just like last year there will be a fight for the back up position. There wasn't. Clark was told he had the back up spot before training camp was even over. And therein might lie our problem. The boy did not have to fight for his right to play. It was basically handed to him and to this day, he does not face the threat of losing his job. Maybe the early Clark of this season might poke his head out again if someone pushed him for his job. Competition is a good motivator. If we can leave Morgan in for 5+ goals a night, you are not going to win hockey games anyway, so let Aime try to beat that GAA. And Morgan might get tired of opening the gate.

[SectionNDeserter]

Brandon is really the only proven "go-to" guy left on the roster after the trade deadline, and while his play does generally dictate the success of the team these days, he really isn't enough of a scorer to overcome some of the defensive shortcomings of this team. Brian Sutter, like his brother is really guilty of telling it like it is, even if that isn't always what everyone wants to hear. I have to wonder just exactly what our blueline is going to look like next season, as Archer and Weller are the only two players that I think are really a lock to be there next season--should be interesting what becomes of that.

As for Clark, he can't be held totally to blame, he hasn't let in a lot of bad goals of late, and his teammates have really thrown him under the bus in a lot of games this year. Waaaaaaay too many odd man rushes/breakaways, and too much standing around in front of the net by our defense. I think he has done as well as any 17 year old can be expected to do when facing 50 shots a game. That being said, I think that given his NHL ties, his CSB ranking, and the fact that re-assignment isn't really an option for him, he doesn't have the same amount of pressure on him as anyone who might be challenging him for the job.

[charlie]

I have to wonder just exactly what our blueline is going to look like next season, as Archer and Weller are the only two players that I think are really a lock to be there next season--should be interesting what becomes of that.


sec n...we getting younger again next year lol?

[JustMe]

Just like there is no 'I' in team, there is no 'Brandon' in team either. I am rather disturbed that Bryan seems to lump his players in groups. 'Brandon can't do it by himself', 'the young kids are going to make mistakes' and 'the older guys didn't show up tonight'. These are all true statements in themselves I am sure at some given moment in time. However, that in my opinion is not how you build a team. I am concerned that so much onus is put on a player like Brandon. It is not fair to single him out like that. Brandon is a good hockey player but I don't know that he has ever carried the team single handedly through a game yet his name is mentioned after almost every game as the one guy who worked. Tonight Brandon scored but it was one goal, too late to change the course of history. And someone had to get the puck out of our end, someone passed it to Brandon. Yet these guys are shamed and labeled as not showing up. If Brandon is the franchise player, and the success of the team rests on his shoulders, then there is your achilles heel and this team will never be successful until the worth of the team as a whole is considered.

I am not sure what was meant by the statement that just like last year there will be a fight for the back up position. There wasn't. Clark was told he had the back up spot before training camp was even over. And therein might lie our problem. The boy did not have to fight for his right to play. It was basically handed to him and to this day, he does not face the threat of losing his job. Maybe the early Clark of this season might poke his head out again if someone pushed him for his job. Competition is a good motivator. If we can leave Morgan in for 5+ goals a night, you are not going to win hockey games anyway, so let Aime try to beat that GAA. And Morgan might get tired of opening the gate.

Nice to read a sensible discussion which is smack bang on. I agree with all said. I guess if you can single the "good" player out, you can just as well single the "bad" player out - therefore - I conclude, treat them as a team. Nothing wrong with mentioning the star player every now and then, but impossible that the star player is always the same person. I am sure he has an off day as well.

Next season is going to be interesting, with who we lose and who we get. Please I beg of you, as mentioned in my way back when posts, just don't take a player just to trade him a couple of weeks/months later.....this team has just about the same wins/losses as they had when season started in September!!!!! As I said before......had they kept the original crew they would've totally gelled by mid/three quarter of the season and been very familiar with each ones weak and good points......the continious trades just didn't do us much good, is all I can say.....otherwise the results would've read differently.....
vc124

[SectionNDeserter]

sec n...we getting younger again next year lol?From watching the games of late, one would have to think that the blueline at the very least will be. Louis, Valach, Archer and Weller are the only regular defensemen that have looked like they still want to play in the WHL, and Louis graduates next season, and you really never know whether or not the imports are returning , especially if they are undrafted. But, the offseason hasn't even arrived yet, nor has the Import draft taken place, there is still a lot of changes in the near future.

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

Wont Kot, or Morin be ready by next season to play???

[frontrow fan]

I am sooooo sick and tired of hearing how wonderful Brandon is!! The best games he's played this season have been the ones that his Father was sitting up in the pressbox!! And i'm not the only one that thinks that way!! Those games that Brent was home, were Brandon's best games, he was flying around the ice, hitting, stick handling and actually using his God given talents!! It was great to watch. But to single him out night after night is wrong. I find myself turning off the radio when I leave the rink now cuz I can't stand the Sutter on Sutter show that they have on there!! There truly haven't been alot of shining stars lately, and Brian yapping on about him is getting irratating. Everyone was worried about Brent giving Brandon too much or too little praise....well how about Uncle Brian!!

[SectionNDeserter]

Wont Kot, or Morin be ready by next season to play???Morin has consistantly been one of our worst defensemen this season, and at this point I wouldn't fault them at all if they didn't bring him back next season, and I think Kot will be hard-pressed to return after losing nearly an entire season to injury. Too bad too, he looked pretty good in the playoffs last season, and in the few games he played here at the start of the season.

[WHL Rules]

Looks like this whole topic won't be a "problem" next season. According to the "News & Observer" (Carolina based newspaper) Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford and Head of Player Developement Ron Francis expect Brandon to play in the NHL next season.

[SectionNDeserter]

I think that they will likely sign him, and they might keep him up a few games beyond training camp, but while he has been good, there are aspects of his game that will require a few seasons in the AHL at the very least for them to be NHL ready. I think they are either being overly optimistic, or they haven't been doing any scouting.

[WHL Rules]

I think that they will likely sign him, and they might keep him up a few games beyond training camp, but while he has been good, there are aspects of his game that will require a few seasons in the AHL at the very least for them to be NHL ready. I think they are either being overly optimistic, or they haven't been doing any scouting.

Personally I don't think that he is ready either but obviously Ron Francis has followed Sutter's season very closely and he thinks that he will be ready and Carolina likes to bring in their prospects early and let them develop with them. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[sbtatter]

Looks like this whole topic won't be a "problem" next season. According to the "News & Observer" (Carolina based newspaper) Hurricanes GM Jim Rutherford and Head of Player Developement Ron Francis expect Brandon to play in the NHL next season. There is no way on gods green earth that Sutter is ready for the NHL, I mean come on, watch him play, Schenn and Green have outplayed him the last twice we played you! He has potential, but he's a couple years away for sure from the big show...

[WHL Rules]

There is no way on gods green earth that Sutter is ready for the NHL, I mean come on, watch him play, Schenn and Green have outplayed him the last twice we played you! He has potential, but he's a couple years away for sure from the big show...

That's not my assessment but Rutherford's and Francis', one has a Stanley Cup ring as a GM and the other is Hall of Famer but I guess what to they know about hockey compared to us message board posters. :thumb:

[sbtatter]

That's not my assessment but Rutherford's and Francis', one has a Stanley Cup ring as a GM and the other is Hall of Famer but I guess what to they know about hockey compared to us message board posters. :thumb:
I could see Gillies playing there before Sutter b/c at least Gillies is a physical force and can skate really well....but I think anyone who watches Brandon Sutter realizes he's no Jonathan Toews....
I guess those 2 guys haven't seen Schenn dominate Sutter this year, or Green outwork Sutter on the boards and score a wrap around goal when Sutter was stick checking him? The sooner Brandon leaves the Rebels, the better it'll be for the team as a whole....

[eye4aneye]

The pressure on Brandon Sutter must be huge because of the last name. Kinda feel sorry for the kid.
I wonder if his last name was Smith or Jones would Carolina feel the same way about him. Sounds like he is a "moody" player, plays according to what mood he is in and not what his team needs of him. If you put him on the ice with lets say players of the same caliber and everyone was outfitted the same way, would Brandon stand out? Playing slightly better then your team mates ( which isn't saying much by what I have read) can make you look like a "SUPASTAR". It will be interesting how he plays with the big boys game in and game out. The truth of your true talent will eventually catch up with you and it doesn't matter what your last name is. The last name Gretzky comes to mind.
I haven't seen Brandon play this season..just going by what is said about him. I hope that Carolina doesn't put too much pressure on him, because we know what happens as well.

[rebelfan]

I have to agree with the previous post. It is so unfortunate that the ambitions of kids become mixed up with their adults. The Sutters are not the only ones who do this, they just get the press coverage and they can take their kids farther than the Smiths and Joneses. Many parents do untold damage to their kids' futures by trying to get them to the show. There are kids to raise here, let's not get fame and glory confused with no. 1 and that is to raise the boy. The boy comes first, not dad's name on the back of some jersey. Look at the parents of this 15 year old kid in Portland. Who in their right mind would allow their son to be thrown to the lions like that? According to newspaper reports, Portland had to get a special waiver to play this boy because he had already played his max of 5 games as a 15 year old. And then he blows out his jaw. Parents do crazy things out of ambition for their kids. And in the end the kids pay.

[localguy]

Why rag on the kid (sutter), who cares, obviously he is a great player, regardless of what a Wheaties player did against him in a game. He has played in hockey Canada's elite program his entire career, got drafted in the first round, and is one of the very few players that consistantly shows up on a young and learning team. Everyone is so excited to see him fail, he can't win for losing. He's a kid, and he's playing a game. Carolina will sign him, and we'll see if he'll make the show next year, they had an awfully long look at him, and liked what they saw.

On a side note, Morgan Clark played an oustanding game tonight, WOW. All around a real good showing by a young team. Brennan Wray, als looked real good on the back end. Any reason why Loius and Ofukany were playing forward tonight?

[sbtatter]

Why rag on the kid (sutter), who cares, obviously he is a great player, regardless of what a Wheaties player did against him in a game.
I'm not "ragging" on the kid, I'm laughing at ppl like the Rebels radio guys who think he's the best defensive player in all of junior hockey!
I believe Sutter will make the NHL one day, he's just not ready yet as some have been saying....

[moon]

Why rag on the kid (sutter), who cares, obviously he is a great player, regardless of what a Wheaties player did against him in a game.

But it isn't just any Wheaties player it is Schenn the greatest player to ever skate on a sheet of ice in the history of the game. :rolleyes:

[sbtatter]

But it isn't just any Wheaties player it is Schenn the greatest player to ever skate on a sheet of ice in the history of the game. :rolleyes:Wow, good to see a rebel fan praise the 16 year old. Actually, it was Sutter's poor play against Green that was surprising (as i mentioned in an earlier post)

[moon]

Wow, good to see a rebel fan praise the 16 year old. Actually, it was Sutter's poor play against Green that was surprising (as i mentioned in an earlier post)

I was referencing your earlier post about Schenn and Green outplaying Sutter (as though that has some relevance on whether or not he would go to the NHL next season. That decision may be based on more than a handful of games in which an obviously biased fan thinks that the Great Brayden Schenn outplayed him.)

And I am a Canes fan not Rebels fan, not a fan of Sutter all that much but I can at least recognize that he is a great player and probably good enough to take the next step next year.

Although I do realise it is tough for you to see any other player than the Superstar Brayden Schenn getting any praise on this site.

[sbtatter]

I was referencing your earlier post about Schenn and Green outplaying Sutter (as though that has some relevance on whether or not he would go to the NHL next season. That decision may be based on more than a handful of games in which an obviously biased fan thinks that the Great Brayden Schenn outplayed him.)

And I am a Canes fan not Rebels fan, not a fan of Sutter all that much but I can at least recognize that he is a great player and probably good enough to take the next step next year.

Although I do realise it is tough for you to see any other player than the Superstar Brayden Schenn getting any praise on this site.
You're the one calling him a superstar tonight! I'll let the league determine if he's rookie of the year or not.......
So let's make it clear, you're saying Sutter will make the NHL next year? Because I'm saying he won't.
Let us know if this is what you're saying Mr. Moon.

[Rebrevs]

Ho Hum.....another Sutter basher. You're not the first. You won't be the last.
You didn't think your comments were special and unique, did you??

[sbtatter]

Ho Hum.....another Sutter basher. You're not the first. You won't be the last.
Read my lips....He won't make the NHL next season....that's what I'm saying.
And I'm saying he's not the best defensive forward in the CHL, (as his Dad and the RD radio guys said), are you arguing he is?

[Rebrevs]

Its redundant!! What you are saying has been said over and over. Your comments about Sutter are riddled with insults. THAT is nothing new.

[sbtatter]

Its redundant!! What you are saying has been said over and over. Your comments about Sutter are riddled with insults. THAT is nothing new.
For the last time (listen to what I'm saying, not what you think I'm saying!), I'm not insulting Sutter (because really, why resort to childish insults about players when we're trying to discuss a their play?)...I'm chuckling at the guys who call him the best defensive forward in the CHL (talk about heaping pressure on the young man), and I'm saying he won't stick in the NHL next season.
I'm asking you if you think he is the best defensive forward in the CHL and will stay all season in the NHL?
So far, you've ducked those 2 questions....Will you answer this time?

[RDRebelsfan]

Sutter is good, but not NHL ready yet. He;ll be back in a Rebels uni next season.

[sbtatter]

Sutter is good, but not NHL ready yet. He;ll be back in a Rebels uni next season.Succinctly put, and I agree with you...

[Rebrevs]

I now agree with you stbatter. RDRebelsfan got his point across succinctly. You did not.

[Shinyshoes]

Read my lips....He won't make the NHL next season....that's what I'm saying.
And I'm saying he's not the best defensive forward in the CHL, (as his Dad and the RD radio guys said), are you arguing he is?I agree he probly wont make the NHL next season.

as for your second question, sbtatter, in your mind, who is better?

[dubnut]

Kind of funny, you guys all arguing over who's baby is better. Schenn is an amazing hockey player, he needs another year or two to determine how good he is and how good he is when he's playing with who he's playing with. Kind of like the Stone/Fehr combo that didn't make it into the World Juniors a few years ago because there was doubt about how well they could play without each other.

Brandon will do alright. He might play professional next year but not in the NHL and he will have to pack on more body. I fear with the size and age at his disadvantage he could sustain some pretty serious injuries unless a team puts out body guards on him which I am sure they wouldn't for his calibre of play.

In the last two games, Red Deer has certainly played like the best of them. I wonder if all those senseless trades hadn't happened in the beginning of the year and they had made a few intelligent trades, this team could rival last year's team easily and been a playoff team. They certainly sent Lethbridge home to think after this weekend. It looks atleast from this weekend that this team is beginning to play like most teams were gelling in November. I think the Rebels put a huge hiccop into their future(immediate and down the road) with the mistakes they made from Sept-Jan. Depending on how trade happy and how intelligent they draft, if they are smart, this team could begin to get back on track as a winning franchise. But therein lies the question.

If Reimer comes back next year and Morgan gets his act together and decides he really wants to play at this level like it looked on the weekend, they have good solid goaltending for another couple of years. Enough time to put the Wooly Bullyz back together again.

[sbtatter]

But it isn't just any Wheaties player it is Schenn the greatest player to ever skate on a sheet of ice in the history of the game. :rolleyes: Actually you know the more I thought about your comment the more unfair I thought it was.
First of all this isn't a Schenn vs Sutter thread, but, if it was Sutter should be better at this point in time because of his age and experience, it's a no brainer that Sutter's better than Schenn this season.
Secondly, I pimp Schenn as the best 16 year old rookie in the dub, I don't think I'm alone in this opinion, but we'll wait and see who the hockey fraternity votes as the rookie of the year.
Thirdly, I don't think Schenn is the "greatest player to ever skate on a sheet of ice in the history of the game". I don't think he's Brandon's MVP this season, let alone the league MVP. Clarky is my vote, honourable mentions go to Boyle, Lowry and Calvert. I expect Schenn to be the MVP for the next 2 years, but we'll see, Clarky is back as an overager and he's quite the dub player.
So, Schenn's great rookie season has no bearing on my opinion that Sutter will not play in the NHL next season and he is not the best defensive forward in the CHL, you were wrong in intimating that!!

[Shinyshoes]

Brandon will do alright. He might play professional next year but not in the NHL and he will have to pack on more body. Because next season he will be 19, he has to play in either the NHL or the WHL. Untill you are 20, you are not allowed to play in the AHL or other minor pro leagues.

[sbtatter]

I agree he probly wont make the NHL next season.

as for your second question, sbtatter, in your mind, who is better?
Woohoo, we can finally get a good debate going here, thanks for that!
In the dub, I'd say better defensive forwards are, Mahachuk, Gillies, Bartek, White, Knackstedt, Weise. Not sure about other players in the Western conference?
I don't know the OHL players very well, but I thought at the WJC Hallischuk and Mathias were better defensively than Brandon.
I can't imagine the QMJHL would have a better defensive forward than Sutter, but I stand to be corrected.
So there you have it, he is a great prospect, i just don't think he's the #1 defensive forward in the CHL as the RD radio announcers, his dad (and some fans) would have us believe. Would I have him on my team? Of course!