training camp

[rdreb]

We are get close to the camp,so who is all comming out to the workouts

[SectionNDeserter]

I can't imagine that I would miss it, I even have that week off!

[rdreb]

I also have it off so see you there

[Red celtic]

I will also be there for part of each day.
punk rock

[chainsaw]

I've taken in the 2 Rookie scrimmages and 1 Main Camp scrimmage. I'll be heading over for tonights (Saturday) Main scrimmage as well.

Why not?!

The price is right and watching RNH skate through the entire Rebels protected list...over and over again...is quite the sight to behold.

I expect the coach will move Ryan Nugent-Hopkins up to the main camp for this evening...he's just embarassing the 'normal kids' as of this morning's rookie skate.

He isn't real strong on face-offs...but it doesn't matter at this point.

If anyone gets the chance to go and check him out...tell me who he reminds YOU of?

I see a Modano clone out there.

Conner Redmond was bumped up to the main camp...but then they put him on RW and it doesn't look like he has much experience playing as a winger. I would like to see him have a go at centre today. They've got nothing to lose...and why ask him to learn a new position? He's a centre...he's good at it...give him his shot.

[rdreb]

Chainsaw come by and say hi a couple of the posters will be seating on the concourse by y section

[Tinner]

I was there also and for what its worth, and being Reimer is 50/50 to return, I see the possibility of 2 new goaltenders, if not a new #1.

[chainsaw]

Well? Anyone see the BLACK/WHITE game besides me?

First of all...of the 5 or 6 or so Intra-squad games I have been to (in recent memory) this was the thinnest crowd.

About 1000 people (???) and a fair chunk of them never bothered to stay to see the completion of the game.

I can remember BLACK/WHITE games with 2000+ fans...(sighs)...

The thing is...the game didn't deserve a big crowd.

Frankly...the game was a joke and (sadly) right on par with about 75% of this entire training camp...and by the way...about the same as the LAST training camp,too!

Maybe the coaching staff is putting more stock into practices/off-ice training than the scrimmages?

I dunno...I watched Jesse Wallin play for the Rebels and I also watched Jesse Wallin play a few BLACK/WHITE games in his own time...and something tells me if Jesse Wallin were playing TODAY...he'd have been the best player on the rink by about 5 strides and 10 pounds of heart and another 20 pounds of guts.

NAME me a single defencman on the rink today who DID anything? They apparently CUT Dominic Perrault...so he doesn't count.

Overall:


Not quite BRUTAL...but pretty dang close. Too close to brutal...really....when you think about it...there was/is only maybe 3 forwards IN THE ENTIRE game (both teams) who are genuine threats...so it COULD have been a day where any number of defencmen really took the bull by the ba77s'...but MOST of them were content to play ping-pong with the other end of the neutral zone.

That HAS to change...RIGHT AWAY...because its a HUGE part of the reason why people are staying AWAY in numbers right now.

Its the 'B word': BORING...and I blamed it on the sleepy feet/sticks of the D-men.

MAN...was I ever missing Dallas Jackson today...(best player in LAST years B/W game)!!!

Before I over-stay my welcome though...I have to make some + points:

The best news in the rink was Landon Ferraro...BY FAR...he is almost 2 inches taller than this time LAST year and ___XX_____ amount heavier...(???)...visibly stronger... to be sure.

Cass Mappin is skilled enough/confident enough to know a cruiser when he see's one. He took full advantadge of the timid nature today...scoring 3 goals.

Cass' owes HIMSELF a helluva' season this winter. In order for that to happen...he needs 2 solid linemates...I think he has ONE with Ray Ferraro's son. The other 1/3...still to be determined/developed??

Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is so good he needs three names...( I thought only married chicks on facebook did that?). I will say this...based on what I saw from him in the 3 prior scrimmages...RNH could actually have been better today...(and that says a lot for a little, tiny, frail, young kid like him). I'm not saying that to be critical...I just mean...he's going to be great...and at his age/size...he kinda' gets lost in the shuffle in his first camp.

Unfortunatley....also lost in the shuffle...Is Connor Redmond right now...who...(for whatever reason) is stuck out on the wing...totally clueless...obvioulsy has never played that position before in his life...and therefore...totally wasting his time.

Connor's best asset is: Intuition...and therefore...he's the WORST 'type' of player to ASK to play a different position than what he has grown up with.

I will say it loud and proud...IF the Rebels ASK Redmond to play the wing this year...they will RUIN him...and SHAME on them if they do! He's got a knack that I HOPE the staff can see..but he's GOT to play centre if he's going to have any hope of reading the game the way he can.

One last rant...Perrault should NOT have been cut already. I have no idea who made that call...but...its probably the same guy who made the call to bring Egener back this year... Boogaard'd ... out

[Hitmen1]

^^^You make some good points. I went to the game today and I was kinda surprised by how boring the game was. It was like no one was trying to earn a job on the Rebels this fall. I was also surprised at how little skill there appears to be. I noticed Ferraro a few times and of course Mappin. But on the white team only Kulhanek looked decent. Based on today and only today it could be a very long year in Red Deer.

[chainsaw]

^^^You make some good points. I went to the game today and I was kinda surprised by how boring the game was. It was like no one was trying to earn a job on the Rebels this fall. I was also surprised at how little skill there appears to be. I noticed Ferraro a few times and of course Mappin. But on the white team only Kulhanek looked decent. Based on today and only today it could be a very long year in Red Deer.


In soccer...they call it a friendly.

Landon Ferraro deserves better.

Same could've been said for Brandon Sutter last year...(although by missing the WHL playoffs...Sutter found his way into the AHL post season).

I was disappointed in the 'mentality' of todays game.

They were chopping the puck back/forth/up/down and around.

I found myself hoping there is someone to teach the young players how to actually VALUE the possesion game.

BUT: To me...its like asking a horse to like oats...(if a horse DOESN'T like oats...you should probably shoot the damn thing,right?)

[SectionNDeserter]

also lost in the shuffle...Is Connor Redmond right now...who...(for whatever reason) is stuck out on the wing...totally clueless...obviously has never played that position before in his life...and therefore...totally wasting his time.Playing on the wing is not really a huge move from center, and in a lot of situations it is required. You will find most WHL/NHL teams have more than 4 players that are natural centermen, and I have seen WHL teams in the past (including the Rebels) that have had as many as 7 centermen. I can see you having a point if they were asking him to play defense, but centermen playing on the wing is a very normal (and necessary) part of hockey. After watching him in the spring camp, and this training camp, I think the biggest adjustment that he is going to have to make is remembering that he isn't wearing a full cage anymore. ;)


Perrault should NOT have been cut already.Perreault is big, and strong, but he got beat to the outside a lot in this camp, and while he can skate with some of these guys at his top speed, his first few strides don't quite get him up to the same speed as most of them. I had high hopes for this kid this year, but while not perfect, I thought Woodyatt looked better in both ends of the ice, from the second day of camp on.

[chainsaw]

Playing on the wing is not really a huge move from center, and in a lot of situations it is required. You will find most WHL/NHL teams have more than 4 players that are natural centermen, and I have seen WHL teams in the past (including the Rebels) that have had as many as 7 centermen. I can see you having a point if they were asking him to play defense, but centermen playing on the wing is a very normal (and necessary) part of hockey. After watching him in the spring camp, and this training camp, I think the biggest adjustment that he is going to have to make is remembering that he isn't wearing a full cage anymore. ;)

Perreault is big, and strong, but he got beat to the outside a lot in this camp, and while he can skate with some of these guys at his top speed, his first few strides don't quite get him up to the same speed as most of them. I had high hopes for this kid this year, but while not perfect, I thought Woodyatt looked better in both ends of the ice, from the second day of camp on.


Section 'N': If your a member of the local media...then please step up and declare your status.

For far too long the only people who have had a say on the RDR are the people who essentially depend on the RDR in order to have something to talk about in the local media and it makes the local media somewhat of a joke.

Are YOU a joke?

Just asking...


Perrault was NOT...'beat wide...' in this camp.

He isn't a gifted skater and he isn't the next Dion Phaneuf...but he WAS a damn site more intense than 90% of the feather-weights that the Rebels have listed in the last few years.

The bottom line is...the FINN (Kivisto) IS our best D-man and the rest of them are cowards at this point...Archer included.

Anyone who closely followed the 2007 Telus Cup team (Red Deer AAA Midgets) knows that the best players off that roster are NOT property of the Rebels WHL roster right now.

Archer was a solid leader on that team...but this camp...is the best hockey he will ever play. He's busted his a$$ to be good enough to MAKE this team.

The right thing to do would be to snip his name off the list and move on...but they won't because his family is well liked around RD area. So...we'll be stuck listening to how an average player has lasted long enough to become a little tiny bit better than average over the course of the next 3 years.

Meanwhile?

The true talent goes elsewhere.

Ask Trent Hunter. Just ask him...please!!!

Connor Redmond SHOULD play centre! I honestly have zero time for anyone who says' different.

Ten years ago...centre and wing were one and the same.

Its different now.

Smart players need the freedom of the 'middle wing' in order to stalk the puck the way they know how.

[hockey4]

Section 'N': If your a member of the local media...then please step up and declare your status.

For far too long the only people who have had a say on the RDR are the people who essentially depend on the RDR in order to have something to talk about in the local media and it makes the local media somewhat of a joke.

Are YOU a joke?

Just asking...


Perrault was NOT...'beat wide...' in this camp.

He isn't a gifted skater and he isn't the next Dion Phaneuf...but he WAS a damn site more intense than 90% of the feather-weights that the Rebels have listed in the last few years.

The bottom line is...the FINN (Kivisto) IS our best D-man and the rest of them are cowards at this point...Archer included.

Anyone who closely followed the 2007 Telus Cup team (Red Deer AAA Midgets) knows that the best players off that roster are NOT property of the Rebels WHL roster right now.

Archer was a solid leader on that team...but this camp...is the best hockey he will ever play. He's busted his a$$ to be good enough to MAKE this team.

The right thing to do would be to snip his name off the list and move on...but they won't because his family is well liked around RD area. So...we'll be stuck listening to how an average player has lasted long enough to become a little tiny bit better than average over the course of the next 3 years.

Meanwhile?

The true talent goes elsewhere.

Ask Trent Hunter. Just ask him...please!!!

Connor Redmond SHOULD play centre! I honestly have zero time for anyone who says' different.

Ten years ago...centre and wing were one and the same.

Its different now.

Smart players need the freedom of the 'middle wing' in order to stalk the puck the way they know how.

hahaha. worst post ever. u should go into management as a benchmark to other teams and how not to build one.

Perreault. looked slow and out of shape. saw him after a skate on the concourse, looked kinda fat.

And cowards for defense. WHAT???. drop your grudge buddy. where did that come from. keep your personal vendettas out of the conversation so we can have a mature chat.

And the true talent goes elsewhere. WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS ****??? look at the track record buddy. the team has had nothing but success in developing players the last 10 years.

[Rebel66]

Firstly, I only managed to take in half a session of the main camp this time around so really don't have anything of substance to add with regards to who should stick etc.

However, I will say that chainsaw sure seems to have an axe to grind. It almost seems personal. Is it? We've seen it before where certain posters go simply postal with their opinions, way beyond what the average fan would do. As far as I know Section N is simply a die hard fan. He has been on this site from day one and always has a solid opinion. I certainly wouldn't consider him a joke.

That's not to say I don't welcome your opinion, chainsaw. I sure do. I would keep the personal attacks down a tad though.

[SectionNDeserter]

Perrault was NOT...'beat wide...' in this camp.Actually, he was beat wide a LOT in this camp, and fell down with nobody near him a few times to create some odd man rushes on Saturday. Clearly you haven't taken in very much of the training camp.

damn site more intense than 90% of the feather-weights that the Rebels have listed in the last few years.First semi-correct thing you have said so far, but take skill and speed away from intensity, and you have Chris Maillet...

The bottom line is...the FINN (Kivisto) IS our best D-man and the rest of them are cowards at this point...Archer included.Don't feel bad Mr. Perreault, with the right mix of diet and training, I think that your SON has a very good chance to make the team next year. ;)

Anyone who closely followed the 2007 Telus Cup team (Red Deer AAA Midgets) knows that the best players off that roster are NOT property of the Rebels WHL roster right now.So... The Rebels should only draft players off the Red Deer AAA Midget team? I am not following you here...

Archer was a solid leader on that team...but this camp...is the best hockey he will ever play.I disagree. If he isn't the captain this year, he will be next year.

The true talent goes elsewhere.

Ask Trent Hunter. Just ask him...please!!!I could, I am a friend of the family. :D Trent was big and clumsy, and an awful skater when the bantam draft rolled around, he didn't 'go elsewhere', he just got a shot with a WHL team and made the most of it through hard work and determination, much like Jim Vandermeer did with the Rebels.

Connor Redmond SHOULD play centre! I honestly have zero time for anyone who says' different.The important thing is that you are keeping an open mind about it. :D

Smart players need the freedom of the 'middle wing' in order to stalk the puck the way they know how.With Nugent-Hopkins coming in next year, and a year older Ferraro on the roster next year, Redmond can become more versatile, or he can be the #3 centerman. You can believe that the forward positions are too different for a reasonable player to play all you want--but the coaches are playing him there, because it is going to give him the opportunity to get more ice time and become a better player as a result of getting more ice time.

[chainsaw]

Firstly: I'm not attacking anyone and if it sounded that way then I was mis-read.


If my critical points are worded too harsh for the likes of this board...I will try a more politically correct style:

Perrault's skating isn't going to set the world on fire...but he's big and tough and can anyone honestly tell me the team has a surplus of toughness?

Not suprised to see a few loyalties coming to the side of Colin Archer. I understand he is well liked. I think he needs a fire under his butt though. I could be misremembering but I'm pretty sure it was Jesse Wallin who was noticing Archie's improved skating this past week?

I alluded to the AAA Rebels of 2007 for good reason(s). Am I the first poster on the board to wonder why Marc Boulanger isn't here? This time last year...he was property of the PG Cougars and when he made the decision NOT to attend their camp...I thought the Rebels should have/could have found a way to get him here...eventually...and it hasn't happened.

There is no reason for me to say its a conspiracy and I never meant to make it sould that way...I just find it frustrating to see a handful of good players from that 2007 team who WERE property of the Rebels were either cut or traded and the kids who took those spots are either GONE or interchangable,no?

The overall 'feel' of this camp was nothing to write home about. I expected a lot more from a team that SHOULD try and make a big statement early in the year.

It would have been nice to see SEVERAL players playing like a house on fire. Jesse Wallin commented about rookies outplaying vets' yesterday...so I'm not the only guy in the rink who thinks there is some work to be done.

The only rookie who was NOT outplaying vets was Connor Redmond.

It appeared to me like there just wasn't any guys fighting for a spot on the team.

[tiny]

Good:

1) Archer(18), Kivisto(18), Weller(17), Petrovic(16), Scarborough(18), Morin(19), and Deagle(16) or Woodyatt(16) give me hope for a very good, young (one older than 18) set of D.

Contrary to chainsaw's viewpoint, I don't any reason to label them "cowards". Nor do I think Perrault(17) was more impressive than Deagle(16) or Woodyatt(16)
Chainsaw also said Archer "busted his a$$ to be good enough to make this team". Isn't that good? Why would you "snip his name off the list" and who would you relace him with? I thought he looked very much like Bryce Thoma and I mean that as quite a compliment.

When Egener and Kot get healthy, ???


2)I was very impressed with these forwards camp: Ferguson, Esposito, Coetzee, Kulhanek, and Mappin.

3) Youngsters (14-16) that I am conviced can be/are WHL caliber included Pufahl, Woodyatt, Petrovic, Nugent-Hopkins, Neduzak, Bruce, Dusyk, Kambeitz, Siwak, Deagle, Robak, Redmond, and Ferraro

4) Several former Rebels making an appearance.

Bad and Ugly

1) Oak's broken nose
2) Willfong's disappointing camp
3) Short stay by Belich (injury?)
4) McKenzie not at camp

Hope/expect to see more from
1) Kivisto (just arrived and adjusting to flight and time change)
2) Gross (need 19's to stand out)
3) Polak (if he is on top line)
4) Miller (needs consistent drive)
5) Redmond (grit - even if it is from the wing)
6) Wray (20's have to produce to deserve top 6 billing)

Chainsaw "The true talent goes elsewhere." I assume you are speaking of Red Deer "talent". Are you saying we should be using our top picks to ensure Red Deer boys are drafted here.

Looking at the first two picks of the last four years of draft picks:

05 Mappin, Stebner (5 are currently Rebels)
06 Ferraro, Weller (
07 Redmond Petrovic
08 Nugent-Hopkins, Siwak

How many were poor (inappropriate) picks?

[chainsaw]

Good:

1) Archer(18), Kivisto(18), Weller(17), Petrovic(16), Scarborough(18), Morin(19), and Deagle(16) or Woodyatt(16) give me hope for a very good, young (one older than 18) set of D.

Contrary to chainsaw's viewpoint, I don't any reason to label them "cowards". Nor do I think Perrault(17) was more impressive than Deagle(16) or Woodyatt(16)
Chainsaw also said Archer "busted his a$$ to be good enough to make this team". Isn't that good? Why would you "snip his name off the list" and who would you relace him with? I thought he looked very much like Bryce Thoma and I mean that as quite a compliment.

When Egener and Kot get healthy, ???


2)I was very impressed with these forwards camp: Ferguson, Esposito, Coetzee, Kulhanek, and Mappin.

3) Youngsters (14-16) that I am conviced can be/are WHL caliber included Pufahl, Woodyatt, Petrovic, Nugent-Hopkins, Neduzak, Bruce, Dusyk, Kambeitz, Siwak, Deagle, Robak, Redmond, and Ferraro

4) Several former Rebels making an appearance.

Bad and Ugly

1) Oak's broken nose
2) Willfong's disappointing camp
3) Short stay by Belich (injury?)
4) McKenzie not at camp

Hope/expect to see more from
1) Kivisto (just arrived and adjusting to flight and time change)
2) Gross (need 19's to stand out)
3) Polak (if he is on top line)
4) Miller (needs consistent drive)
5) Redmond (grit - even if it is from the wing)
6) Wray (20's have to produce to deserve top 6 billing)

Chainsaw "The true talent goes elsewhere." I assume you are speaking of Red Deer "talent". Are you saying we should be using our top picks to ensure Red Deer boys are drafted here.

Looking at the first two picks of the last four years of draft picks:

05 Mappin, Stebner (5 are currently Rebels)
06 Ferraro, Weller (
07 Redmond Petrovic
08 Nugent-Hopkins, Siwak

How many were poor (inappropriate) picks?

I'm talking about the kids who have been on the Rebels protected list or at laste attended a camp...and were dropped.

Not neccesarily Red Deer boys either...

Fraser, Hiebert, Goodrunning, and Hunter (the one they had in camp last fall).

I'm scratching for a defenceman's name...there was at least one other AAA Midget D-man in camp last year or the year before they decided not to retain...(obviously not a big deal or I would remember his name!)

But Goodrunning should have been listed. Hiebert too. They had Fraser and he got a lot better after he was traded...so I can't complain about that one. His improvement is a good thing...even if it doesn't happen here...but Hiebert and Goodrunning were really good everytime they were in the Rebels camp...

I don't know what kind of a reference those 2 would have gotten from Brent Fudge...but what kind of stock would you put into his thoughts on a player anyways?

I was over the top with my comments about Archie. I apologize for that. He has improved his skating...I'll take Wallin's word on it. On hockey skills...he isn't the next Dion Phaneuf by any stretch...

I just can't believe some of the defencemen the Rebels have been SO patient with...and its a dead end road with most of them...so far...

I liked Kot from the first time I saw him. He's missed a lot of hockey though.

Jasckson was the one they really never should have let go though...

What about Kaare Odegaard? he was the smartest player the AAA Chiefs had in 2007. never even was invited to a camp here. Plays tier II now,no?

[Shinyshoes]

I'm talking about the kids who have been on the Rebels protected list or at laste attended a camp...and were dropped.

Not neccesarily Red Deer boys either...

Fraser, Hiebert, Goodrunning, and Hunter (the one they had in camp last fall).

Jasckson was the one they really never should have let go though...

What about Kaare Odegaard? he was the smartest player the AAA Chiefs had in 2007. never even was invited to a camp here. Plays tier II now,no?
Lets do a quick run through of the players you would have listed......

Goodrunning - Played last season with the Vernon Vipers. Obviously if he is playing BCJHL, then that means 21 other teams passed on his services too. Not to mention he got 11 pts in 52 games. If he could only manage 11 pts in Tier II, how small would those numbers be in the Dub?

Hiebert - Played 10 games last season with the Melfort Mustangs in the SJKL, getting 2 points. It that WHL quality? 21 other teams said no to him too.

Fraser - He was never Dropped, he was traded to Kootenay for Clayton Bauer. Had a young team that year that badly needed some leadership. Fraser had sat in the press box for most of that season, so it was a no-brainer to move him out in favor of a 20 year old. I dont think it was much against him as a player, but when compared to the others in his age group that year, he was the weakest.

Hunter - The only Hunter I can think of in recent History was Shawn Hunter, who was in camp in 06. He was a 1989 born kid which made him a 17 year old in that year of camp, and was struggling to get the last 2 open forward spots on the team. The Rebels instead went with Pighin and Fraser over Hunter that year (both of whom are still in the WHL), and Hunter has gone on to 18 points over 2 seasons in Tier II. Looks like they made the right choice here.

Odegaard - Played last season with the Canmore Eagles (20 pts in 58 games). Verbally committed to University of Alaska Fairbanks for next season. Similar to Goodrunning and Heibert....All other teams passed, and small numbers in Tier II. Not exactly shining WHL level talent.

Jackson - Not dropped either, he was moved out in favor of Valach and Ofukany. He had a big shot, but not much else. Its funny you mention him, because I was just saying at the Black/White game that I dont miss him one bit. I would much rather have an decent all around defenceman (Weller, Archer, both of whom are younger) than a below average Defenceman with a good shot.

The Scouts for the Rebels are paid to separate the kids that will be able to play at the WHL level and those who wont. In the 6 cases you brought up, 4 (Goodrunning, Hiebert, Hunter and Odegaard) quite simply were not WHL level players. Well done by the Scouting Staff not to keep them around and take up a spot on the 50 man PPL.

As for Fraser and Jackson, Both are still in the WHL, and weather or not they turn into WHL Stars is yet to be seen. Having said that, those trades at the time filled a hole for Red Deer. Also, when you compare others in their age groups, would it have been better to hold onto Jackson (1989) than Gross, Sutter, Penny, Esposito, Kulhanek, or Morrin. Would it have been better to hold on to Fraser (1990) and get rid of Polak, Mappin, Scarborough or Archer.

I think the Decisions are justified.......

[chainsaw]

LOL. I love your logic. A player is playing tier II so that must mean 21 Western League teams don't think he is good enough to play in the WHL.

It doesn't work that way. These kids COMMIT to ONE try-out/season. They are invited to come here and while they try out here...guess what is happening in 21 other Western League venues?

Its a timing thing. You don't try out for 21 teams. You try out for ONE team.

All of those kids are capable of bigger numbers than what they showed last year and they will put up bigger numbers as they get more ice time.

If the right decisions are being made...it tends to translate to a few more wins than what the Rebels came up with last year.

[SectionNDeserter]

Kivisto(18)The news just gets better for you then, he is actually 17. ;)

[SectionNDeserter]

All of those kids are capable of bigger numbers than what they showed last year and they will put up bigger numbers as they get more ice time.These kids go to a WHL camp, don't make the cut and go on to put up next to no numbers in a lower tier league, and you say they are capable of putting up bigger numbers? Where? Bantam? Sounds like keeping the rights to all these guys till they are 18 or 19 while trying to maintain a decent 50 man protected list could end up being quite the crap shoot.

[RDRebelsfan]

I'm gonna put my quick 2 cents in here, regarding the goaltenders. Goaltending is, and has always been my favorite position in hockey, but with all due respect to the goalies we had in camp, this has to be the worst crop we've had in a long time. No one truly stands out at all as far as I'm concerned. Clark does, but not by much. Just go back to previous years when Reimer, Ward and Bendera were around they were pretty damn good stand outs.

Unless a number of guys break out this season, the team is going to struggle to score....again. Could be another long year, but I hope not.

[RDRebelsfan]

LOL. I love your logic. A player is playing tier II so that must mean 21 Western League teams don't think he is good enough to play in the WHL.

It doesn't work that way. These kids COMMIT to ONE try-out/season. They are invited to come here and while they try out here...guess what is happening in 21 other Western League venues?

Its a timing thing. You don't try out for 21 teams. You try out for ONE team.

All of those kids are capable of bigger numbers than what they showed last year and they will put up bigger numbers as they get more ice time.

If the right decisions are being made...it tends to translate to a few more wins than what the Rebels came up with last year.

Guy makes a good point here. Just look at Pighin for example. Did **** for us. Goes to BCHL puts up great numbers, Chilliwack acquires him and he excels along with Santorelli and Moller. IT's the same thing with Knackstedt and Blair Jones, when they were here they didn't have that full niche. As soon as they hit another club (MJ) they were putting up great numbers.

[Trav]

LOL. I love your logic. A player is playing tier II so that must mean 21 Western League teams don't think he is good enough to play in the WHL.

It doesn't work that way. These kids COMMIT to ONE try-out/season. They are invited to come here and while they try out here...guess what is happening in 21 other Western League venues?

Its a timing thing. You don't try out for 21 teams. You try out for ONE team.

All of those kids are capable of bigger numbers than what they showed last year and they will put up bigger numbers as they get more ice time.

If the right decisions are being made...it tends to translate to a few more wins than what the Rebels came up with last year.


For example, last year Brody Sutter I believe it was, went to the Rebels camp but then they released him, the Rebels camp was obviously before the Blades camp who then brought Sutter in to their camp and he looked impressive but he was only 16 but he was placed on the Blades protected list. This year he is at camp and doing well again and has a strong chance of making the team.

So while your right in say a player can't try out for 21 teams they can try out for maybe 2 or 3 teams if the teams start their camps at different times.

[SectionNDeserter]

Guy makes a good point here. Just look at Pighin for example. Did **** for us. Goes to BCHL puts up great numbers, Chilliwack acquires him and he excels along with Santorelli and Moller. IT's the same thing with Knackstedt and Blair Jones, when they were here they didn't have that full niche. As soon as they hit another club (MJ) they were putting up great numbers.All of the above didn't become above average players until they were or almost were at the ends of their WHL careers. The point is, that for every Pighin, Knackstedt or Jones, there are a few dozen Luke Betts' or Mike Cann's, and there is only so much room on your 50 man protected list.

[Shinyshoes]

A player is playing tier II so that must mean 21 Western League teams don't think he is good enough to play in the WHL.YES! That is exactly correct. The only other possibility is that player WANTS to be in Tier II. (NCAA Scholorship or otherwise)


It doesn't work that way. These kids COMMIT to ONE try-out/season. They are invited to come here and while they try out here...guess what is happening in 21 other Western League venues?

Its a timing thing. You don't try out for 21 teams. You try out for ONE team.

All of those kids are capable of bigger numbers than what they showed last year and they will put up bigger numbers as they get more ice time.
I love how quickly you change the subject. You said that Heibert, Goodrunning, Hunter and Odegaard all should have been protected by the rebels. I said that none of them were WHL talent, and that if they were, some other WHL team would have picked them up to prove the Rebels wrong.

Go ask Derrick Dorsett. He was at Rebels Camp as a 16 year old, got cut, then went to Medicine Hat, even after their camp was over, and got another shot. He made the team, and went on to a 5 year WHL Career. I'm sure there are many other examples......

Bottom line is regardless of who's camp you attend, if you have WHL level skills, you will get numerous shots at playing in the WHL. Obviously Goodrunning, Hiebert, Hunter and Odegaard all didnt have what it takes. If they did, some other WHL team would have snatched them up.

If the right decisions are being made...it tends to translate to a few more wins than what the Rebels came up with last year.
when you finish first in the conference for 3 years in a row (01-03), your draft picks will suffer. That is what translated into the few wins the team had over the last 2-3 years. Bottom line is Goodrunning, Heibert, Hunter, and Odegaard have no place in the WHL. I think the decisions being made in regards to the 50 man PPL are just fine. I'm glad Randy Peterson and crew are calling the shots and not you.

[chainsaw]

The protected list doesn't get put together based on stats alone and you can't say a player doesn't belong on that list just because he isn't carrying eye-popping stats either.

Its about 'seeing something' in a player. Not just points.

I think when Goodrunning was in the camp...everyone knew he was on the ice. He was doing everything you could have asked a PROSPECT to do in a camp.

Thats all you can ask...and if he tails off in a tier II league somewhere a couple of years later...I believe (if I was a coach) I would be looking back at that player wishing I would have KEPT him because I could have MADE him better than whoever it is who isn't getting it out of him now...undertsand?

I think its a pi$$ poor way to approach your team...if you dial up a kid you cut and see he only played 30 game out of a 64 game schedule and he isn't scoring and then say..."WHEW...thank goodness we dumped him."

A better idealogy is: If you invite a kid to your camp...you have a vision for him and a plan to help get him there that YOU believe is BETTER than any plan anyone else could possibly have for him. You don't drop him unless somebody else can make him a BETTER player than you can.

[Shinyshoes]

Yes, The WHL is a developmental league, however the players have to be develop-able. Nobody will ever know if Goodrunning was, but at the time, he was viewed as less develop-able than others, and was cut.

Also, the WHL is about WINNING. Goodrunning was an 18 year old, and his skill set was easily replaced at the same level by a 16 or 17 year old. Late Bloomer? Maybe, but all 21 teams decided that he wasnt worth the investment.

Somehow, I cant believe that 22 team's Scouts wouldnt be wrong too often.

[tiny]

Personally I would be very hesitant to say players should have been kept on the protected list unless I knew who they would be replacing. Not keeping a player on the protected list doesn't mean the team has no interested in the player. You can't protect everyone you would like to.

I would be very interested in seeing the Rebels' protected list but as far as I know the Rebels choose to keep it under cover. I am aware that some other teams make their lists more public.

[SectionNDeserter]

I think when Goodrunning was in the camp...everyone knew he was on the ice. He was doing everything you could have asked a PROSPECT to do in a camp.Sadly the WHL has a limited scope in which these kids have to showcase their talent, and guys like Goodrunning have to be better than the guys who have already played a season or two on the team, due to the fact that he attended camp as an 18 year old. He was better than a lot of the 15 and 16 and 17 year olds, but maybe not the 18 and 19 year olds in camp. Jackson was almost 19 years old last year when he made the team, which had a lot to do with our blueline being so young and/or untalented, probably wouldn't even make it to the black and white game this year, based mostly on his age and the young guys being a year better than they were last season.

A better idealogy is: If you invite a kid to your camp...you have a vision for him and a plan to help get him there that YOU believe is BETTER than any plan anyone else could possibly have for him. You don't drop him unless somebody else can make him a BETTER player than you can.You are partly right. You invite the kid to your camp to evaluate them and find out if they have the skill and desire to reach the vision that you have for them, and if they are willing to buy into it. You SIGN them if you have a vision for him and a plan to help him get there that you believe is better than any plan anyone else could possibly have for him.

Personally I would be very hesitant to say players should have been kept on the protected list unless I knew who they would be replacing. Not keeping a player on the protected list doesn't mean the team has no interested in the player. You can't protect everyone you would like to. Nail right on the head, you give teams a 70 player protected list, and I bet it takes them less than half an hour to list 20 more guys that they have shortlisted. The 50 player protected list ensures both that the teams only keep the playing rights to players that they have some sort of a plan or use for, and protects players from just rotting away near the bottom of some team's list.

[hockey4]

Guy makes a good point here. Just look at Pighin for example. Did **** for us. Goes to BCHL puts up great numbers, Chilliwack acquires him and he excels along with Santorelli and Moller. IT's the same thing with Knackstedt and Blair Jones, when they were here they didn't have that full niche. As soon as they hit another club (MJ) they were putting up great numbers.

And whata ya know pighin is back playing junior A again. We all watched those players play here and they were all the same, zero work ethic. they are non-impact players.

and we all know the values which the team is built on (not so much last year but from what i saw at camp that has been corrected)

Do we really have to get into the "players who go on to better careers elsewhere discussion"

Do you think were the only team that trades somebody, and then that player goes on to put up better numbers elsewhere.

[RDRebelsfan]

And whata ya know pighin is back playing junior A again. We all watched those players play here and they were all the same, zero work ethic. they are non-impact players.

and we all know the values which the team is built on (not so much last year but from what i saw at camp that has been corrected)

Do we really have to get into the "players who go on to better careers elsewhere discussion"

Do you think were the only team that trades somebody, and then that player goes on to put up better numbers elsewhere.

If you think Pighin is back in the BCHL because of skill level or any of the like, it's not. Do some research and read up. It's simply by choice.

[Tinner]

just a clarification on a couple of points that were posted; Matt Fraser was traded away because he was not a favorite of Brian, and secondly, Matt Belich came to camp in such poor shape he couldn't even make it though the first set of drills and made up an excuse to leave.

Anyway, I thought the camp was OK for weeding out who doesn't fit in and who should move forward. I wouldn't call anyone a coward yet but it seemed like very few players were willing to mix it up. I think it's going to be another long season as wins may be hard to come by (not having seen other teams). I think we may have some top end guys and certainly guys that will make the team, what concerns me is the middle bunch.

[chainsaw]

just a clarification on a couple of points that were posted; Matt Fraser was traded away because he was not a favorite of Brian, and secondly, Matt Belich came to camp in such poor shape he couldn't even make it though the first set of drills and made up an excuse to leave.

Anyway, I thought the camp was OK for weeding out who doesn't fit in and who should move forward. I wouldn't call anyone a coward yet but it seemed like very few players were willing to mix it up. I think it's going to be another long season as wins may be hard to come by (not having seen other teams). I think we may have some top end guys and certainly guys that will make the team, what concerns me is the middle bunch.

I think I agree with you. Although...excuse the redundance...but...I think the camp did very little for weeding out players. I saw more 'cuttable' players than 'un-cuttables'.

Who knows though...maybe the Rebels get Reimer back and he makes the difference?

The fact Belich was in camp at all...kinda' puts into perspective how thin things are right now,no?

[Shinyshoes]

The fact Belich was in camp at all...kinda' puts into perspective how thin things are right now,no? Depends on your prospective. You are looking straight for wins right away this season. Is that going to happen? I think we will be in the bottom half of the league.

But I am looking ahead, and see that our team is right on track to be a force in the league as soon as next season.

If you think it is thin, then i have a challenge for you:

Here are the remaining players in camp. We have 10 Defencemen, and 17 forwards (15 year olds not included)

We need to get to 7 Defencemen and 14 Forwards. Can you make the cuts? I know I cant. Pretty Deep in my mind. Everyone left on the team right now is WHL quality.......

Defencemen:
Colin Archer (18)
Brad Deagle (16)
Luke Egener (20)
Tommi Kivisto (17)
Joel Kot (18)
Cullen Morin (19)
Alex Petrovic (16)
Mike Scarborough (18)
Justin Weller (17)
Kevin Woodyat (16)

Forwards:
Willie Coetzee (17)
Josh Cowen (17)
Cody Esposito (19)
Brett Ferguson (18)
Landon Ferraro (17)
Cody Gross (19)
Adam Kambeitz (16)
Colby Kulhanek (19)
Cass Mappin (18)
Brett Miller (17)
Steve Oursov (17)
Tyler Penny (19)
Tomas Polak (18)
Connor Redmond (16)
Carter Smith (20)
Brandon Sutter (19)
Brennen Wray (20)

[frontrow fan]

I attended a couple of sessions of camp and the B/W game too and i didn't see to much that impressed to so much that I would make too many comments other than Petrovic is going to be good, and I think Carter Smith had a good camp. To me he was in the hunt for a job this season. In my opinion he was one guy that showed some jump and some heart out there. Mappin I think had a good camp and good b/w game, but he needed to...he needs to be consistant...Goaltending is going to be our downfall again...I heard that Kuemper, Gorchynski and Clark were gunna play the EX season, with Kuemper and Clark fighting it out for #1...I didn't really see too much in this guy, but I guess time will tell...Gorchynski I thought played good positionly was squared up all the time...he looked good to me... applause

[chainsaw]

I attended a couple of sessions of camp and the B/W game too and i didn't see to much that impressed to so much that I would make too many comments other than Petrovic is going to be good, and I think Carter Smith had a good camp. To me he was in the hunt for a job this season. In my opinion he was one guy that showed some jump and some heart out there. Mappin I think had a good camp and good b/w game, but he needed to...he needs to be consistant...Goaltending is going to be our downfall again...I heard that Kuemper, Gorchynski and Clark were gunna play the EX season, with Kuemper and Clark fighting it out for #1...I didn't really see too much in this guy, but I guess time will tell...Gorchynski I thought played good positionly was squared up all the time...he looked good to me... applause

Your in with the general consensus crowd. The Sutter Kool-Aid was a fun thing to drink and we were lucky to have him here...but I have to give the majority of RD hockey fans credit for knowing an empty jug when they see one.

If this current team turns into anything more than 50% encouraging and we manage to keep MORE than half our starting roster for a full year...its a success in comaprison to last years debacle.

Thats bases on the same 'ho-hum' feeling I got from this camp.

[HURRICANE'S ROCK]

Originally Posted by chainsaw:
Quote:
Connor Redmond SHOULD play centre! I honestly have zero time for anyone who says' different.

The important thing is that you are keeping an open mind about it.

Good one. LMAO

[Red celtic]

This is a different camp this year what I saw at camp was a coach (Jesse Wallen) who was holding the players accountable. He was letting them know when they were doing things right or wrong and was explaining why they were doing certain drills. A lot more coaching was going on at the practices. Plus they have had meetings with certain players explaining what will be tolerated this year. Look for a hard working team .

[RDRebelsfan]

I attended a couple of sessions of camp and the B/W game too and i didn't see to much that impressed to so much that I would make too many comments other than Petrovic is going to be good, and I think Carter Smith had a good camp. To me he was in the hunt for a job this season. In my opinion he was one guy that showed some jump and some heart out there. Mappin I think had a good camp and good b/w game, but he needed to...he needs to be consistant...Goaltending is going to be our downfall again...I heard that Kuemper, Gorchynski and Clark were gunna play the EX season, with Kuemper and Clark fighting it out for #1...I didn't really see too much in this guy, but I guess time will tell...Gorchynski I thought played good positionly was squared up all the time...he looked good to me... applause

Agreed on the tenders. As I already said, this has to be our worst crop of goalies we've had in a long while now. No offence to those who think otherwise.

[RDRebelsfan]

Depends on your prospective. You are looking straight for wins right away this season. Is that going to happen? I think we will be in the bottom half of the league.

But I am looking ahead, and see that our team is right on track to be a force in the league as soon as next season.

If you think it is thin, then i have a challenge for you:

Here are the remaining players in camp. We have 10 Defencemen, and 17 forwards (15 year olds not included)

We need to get to 7 Defencemen and 14 Forwards. Can you make the cuts? I know I cant. Pretty Deep in my mind. Everyone left on the team right now is WHL quality.......

Defencemen:
Colin Archer (18)
Brad Deagle (16)
Luke Egener (20)
Tommi Kivisto (17)
Joel Kot (18)
Cullen Morin (19)
Alex Petrovic (16)
Mike Scarborough (18)
Justin Weller (17)
Kevin Woodyat (16)

Forwards:
Willie Coetzee (17)
Josh Cowen (17)
Cody Esposito (19)
Brett Ferguson (18)
Landon Ferraro (17)
Cody Gross (19)
Adam Kambeitz (16)
Colby Kulhanek (19)
Cass Mappin (18)
Brett Miller (17)
Steve Oursov (17)
Tyler Penny (19)
Tomas Polak (18)
Connor Redmond (16)
Carter Smith (20)
Brandon Sutter (19)
Brennen Wray (20)


I'll reply to this with who I would go with. No reason given.

Archer
Kivisto
Kot
Morin
Petrovic
Scarborough
Weller

Cowen
Esposito
Ferraro
Gross
Kulhanek
Mappin
Miller
Oursov
Penny
Polak
Redmond
Smith
Sutter
Wray

if Sutter isn't back then add Ferguson.

[hockey4]

Your in with the general consensus crowd. The Sutter Kool-Aid was a fun thing to drink and we were lucky to have him here...but I have to give the majority of RD hockey fans credit for knowing an empty jug when they see one.

If this current team turns into anything more than 50% encouraging and we manage to keep MORE than half our starting roster for a full year...its a success in comaprison to last years debacle.

Thats bases on the same 'ho-hum' feeling I got from this camp.

The Sutter Kool-Aide. i havent really read anywhere that hes selling this team as a contender. In fact quite the opposite. hes building the team on speed and skill. i myself saw some pretty decent skaters out there. my guess is that is why perreault was cut, cant skate very well. the skill takes time but i saw improvement from coetzee, ferraro, redmond, mappin and polak. nugget hopkins also seems to be decent so im willing to be patient.

not sure if anybody watched the practices, but wallin was all over guys for missed passes and laziness. maybe its just me but that seems to be a blatent attempt to fix what was wrong last year.

no?

[chainsaw]

The Sutter Kool-Aide. i havent really read anywhere that hes selling this team as a contender. In fact quite the opposite. hes building the team on speed and skill. i myself saw some pretty decent skaters out there. my guess is that is why perreault was cut, cant skate very well. the skill takes time but i saw improvement from coetzee, ferraro, redmond, mappin and polak. nugget hopkins also seems to be decent so im willing to be patient.

not sure if anybody watched the practices, but wallin was all over guys for missed passes and laziness. maybe its just me but that seems to be a blatent attempt to fix what was wrong last year.

no?

I think Wallin will do his best to squeeze every drop of execution he can get out of his players.

I'm pretty sure I already used the phrase: "...ping pong with the other blueline..." and thats a round-a-bout referecne to the same things you saying Wallin is working on in practice.

Reminds me of a good technique that Brent Sutter used to use...

Remember back (not so long ago) when the team would have thier composite sticks taken away?



Composite sticks spelled the end of traditional fundamentals for puck-handling. Sutter could see this...I think Wallin should not hesitate to do the same.

[Tinner]

Defencemen:
Colin Archer (18)
Luke Egener (20)
Tommi Kivisto (17)
Joel Kot (18)
Cullen Morin (19)
Alex Petrovic (16)
Mike Scarborough (18)

Forwards:
Willie Coetzee (17)
Josh Cowen (17)
Cody Esposito (19)
Brett Ferguson (18)
Landon Ferraro (17)
Colby Kulhanek (19)
Cass Mappin (18)
Brett Miller (17)
Tyler Penny (19)
Tomas Polak (18)
Connor Redmond (16)
Carter Smith (20)
Brennen Wray (20)