Icing ... Not ?

[IceMan]

I know I'm opening up a can of worms here, being a Silvertips fan, but I have to ask a simple question about icing in the WHL.

No doubt, we lead the league in this category ... much the laughter of everyone else ... but I'm curious as to why.

Seems to me that if a defenseman fires the puck around the boards hard, from behind his net, and the offensive player at the point tries to keep it in, but misses (could be that it jumped over his stick, or he misjudged it), that should NOT be an icing. I've seen pointmen give a half-assed effort to get a stick on the puck ... icing. I've seen them even skate AWAY from the boards so that they "never had a chance at it" to force an icing. I've seen a slow clearing attempt go all the way for icing when a defender could have very easily played the puck instead of checking someone, or straightening out his gloves.

My point is ... the linesmen in the WHL seem to call icing every time the puck goes all the way down unless the opposition player actually makes contact with the puck. That's just wrong, in my opinion.

They should be more interperative .... if the player could have made a play on it (or should have), icing should be waved off. I see too many cases where the other team just skates away from a clear ... to get an icing call, when they very clearly could have gotten a stick on it.

I bring this up because it's a pet peeve of mine. I find myself at games scratching my head as to why some of these aren't waved off. Granted, there are clearly times when team flat out ices it, and that's fine. If it's intentional, call it. If it's a pass that was intended for a guy that FALLS DOWN and goes all the way, it's not icing! If the other team gives up on the play, it's NOT ICING.

At the prospects game in 'Couv, there were probably 30 times that the puck went all the way down for what would normally be an icing. Half of those, the goalies stopped to keep the game moving (classy), and the other half were waved off because it was obvious that the intent was not to ice the puck, and they wanted to keep the game in motion. I think there were 3 icing calls the whole game. It kept the game moving at a quick pace, forced some actual playmaking (instead of a million face-offs), and made teams change more on the fly. Made for a better game. (I know, I know, if Everett didn't ice it so much, it would be more exciting ..... blah, blah, blah .... if the WHL would take my advice here, it wouldn't be an issue)

Anyway, I wish they'd call icings only on INTENT, not on a barely missed pass or someone dogging it.

Rant over.... if I'm off base, I'd love to hear why.

[upper level fan]

I agree with you. I see times when icing should have been waved off or times when its waved off and you scratch your head and say why did they just do that. My oppinion on it is the lack of comunication between the league and the linesman or the lackof experiance of the linesman. But then again I have questioned some of the calls from linesman that i have sceen around here for years. I guess maybe its easier for us to see that the guy is trying to get to the puck or vice versa than it is for them on the ice.

[IceMan]

Part of it up here in Everett is that our reputation preceeds us :)

I forget which game it was last week, but the other team did a dump in from the redline and both teams were changing up. The puck took a funny bounce off the back boards, right into the slot. Anyway, our D-Man sprints to it, and winds up (aimed at the side, not the blueline) to clear it out of the slot. The Linesman had his arm up before he even hit the puck .... the puck caromed out into the neutral zone, where the other team's guy literally sprinted right past it, but went wide (about 10 feet) so as to avoid it. TWEET. Icing.

Now, the intent, based on where our guy actually hit the puck was not to ice, but to clear the slot, and the other team's guy deliberately got out of the way of it. And like I said, the arm was up before the puck was even played. BS. That could have been a fun play, 2 teams in the middle of a change, fresh legs, and a puck up for grabs ... instead, we get another face off and clock stoppage. Pretty typical. I figure that if any team other than Everett does the same thing, that gets waved off .... maybe I'm wrong and that's just how 'dub linesman are trained ?

[Kamfan]

Anyway, I wish they'd call icings only on INTENT, not on a barely missed pass or someone dogging it.

Couldn't agree more. I've said the same thing myself.

I wish they'd move toward the way they call icing in the Olympics (e.g. if someone clears the puck through a line change it's no icing) and eventually even move beyond that. Hopefully getting to the point where icing is only on an intentional dump in from beyond center (vs. a legit pass attempt).

Unfortunately this introduces a whole new subjective area for the officials and yet another thing for coaches/players to argue with them about, so it's probably unlikely to go that far. But at least get it to the Olympic rule.

[speedkills]

Part of it up here in Everett is that our reputation preceeds us :)

I forget which game it was last week, but the other team did a dump in from the redline and both teams were changing up. The puck took a funny bounce off the back boards, right into the slot. Anyway, our D-Man sprints to it, and winds up (aimed at the side, not the blueline) to clear it out of the slot. The Linesman had his arm up before he even hit the puck .... the puck caromed out into the neutral zone, where the other team's guy literally sprinted right past it, but went wide (about 10 feet) so as to avoid it. TWEET. Icing.

Now, the intent, based on where our guy actually hit the puck was not to ice, but to clear the slot, and the other team's guy deliberately got out of the way of it. And like I said, the arm was up before the puck was even played. BS. That could have been a fun play, 2 teams in the middle of a change, fresh legs, and a puck up for grabs ... instead, we get another face off and clock stoppage. Pretty typical. I figure that if any team other than Everett does the same thing, that gets waved off .... maybe I'm wrong and that's just how 'dub linesman are trained ?

Two points here...
1) What your d-man was doing is why Icing is in the rule books. If 'winging' it to the boards (or a 'hard around') wasn't Icing then it takes all the pressure off of the defensive team to actually make a pass out of their own zone. I KNOW what you're saying but what your guy did should be Icing in my opinion.

2) NOW...having said that, I DO agree that if the opposing player in the neutral zone intentionally avoided a puck he could play then it should have been waved off. One thing to consider though is was the player he was coming on for off the ice yet? If he had played it, would it have resulted in a too many men call?

OVERALL, I agree, the linesmen need to be waving more of these off when a d-man should've had a reasonable chance at playing the puck. I have been frustrated myself PLENTY of times when I've seen a d-man 'cheat' the icing call.

[ihlemic10]

There also have been a couple time at the Tips games that the Linesman have called it Icing against the Tips, when they are shorthanded. I agree about if its a missed pass it should not be Icing and if they get out of the way of it, Icing should be waved off.

[natural_center]

And like I said, the arm was up before the puck was even played.

The ref is perfectly within the rules to raise his arm when there is the possibility of icing...if the opposing player touches it, the arm comes down. If he'd blown the whistle when the Tip player wound up for the shot, that would be an early call. As it is, it's a warning. Saying, 'if you shoot it now, you're in position for it to be icing.' Not necessarily 'it IS icing.'

That doesn't address opposing players skating to avoid the puck, of course.

[IceMan]

To clarify, on that one play, it wasn't a hard around, it was basically a wind up from the middle of the slot, directly sideways into the boards. Technically, it was a stupid thing, as it probably should have bounced right back into the slot ... had it been a hard around or aimed towards teh blue line, I would agree ... in this case, the arm went up prematurely.

I only put this up as an example. I think that the overall problem is epidemic. Increase offense, intensity, and fan friendly-ness and base icing calls on intent ... would make for a much better game ... it's something that can be done much much easier than eliminating the Redline as has been suggested, but would have a similar effect on flow.

[upper level fan]

There also have been a couple time at the Tips games that the Linesman have called it Icing against the Tips, when they are shorthanded. I agree about if its a missed pass it should not be Icing and if they get out of the way of it, Icing should be waved off.
I doubt there has been a icing call when they are short handed. What it probably was is a two line pass that they ended up picking up near the goal line. Because there absolutly is no icing when you are shorthanded.

[IceMan]

I've seen them do it too ... but every time I've seen it, one of the linesman is shaking his head like "Ooooops" .... but by then it's too late. That happens, the guys are human and can forget the time left on the PK.

[upper level fan]

Well if thats the case then they should drop the puck at center ice. Because thats what they do when they realize they made a mistake. Yes they are human and do make mistakes I just havent seen them do that here in spokane, but im sure its happened before.

[ihlemic10]

To me it always seems like in Everett we get the idoit refs and linesmen. After one of the icing on a PK calls, the linesman was shaking he head and we getting alot of crap from the fans.

[rinkrat]

I don't like the combination of the "no touch" icing rule along side the "no 2 line pass" rule! It creates a game of icings non stop because players keep going for that "homerun" pass.Its do or die,all or none...Any other cliches?

[C.F]

To me it always seems like in Everett we get the idoit refs and linesmen. After one of the icing on a PK calls, the linesman was shaking he head and we getting alot of crap from the fans.
All teams feel the same way about the refs.

[Orv]

Some interesting points in this thread. One thing I don't agree with is people who say icing should be waved of on a botched pass. The reason I think this doesn't work is because the team that missed the pass still gets the puck deep in the oppositions zone. They missed the pass and therefore iced it so should be punished by having the faceoff in there own end.

And also don't rag on those d-men who dogg it getting to a puck so it's icing, I am one of those guys. Those rec hockey refs catch me everytime and wave it off though (like they should). :D