2nd Half

[Wildeyes]

It started with a huge win tonight over speedy creek tonight pretty decent game today. Knutzen won it with the shoot out. Cole did great in net today. Good win hopefully we can pull out a couple of wins against the blades this weekend.

[The Wheatiemaniac]

It started with a huge win tonight over speedy creek tonight pretty decent game today. Knutzen won it with the shoot out. Cole did great in net today. Good win hopefully we can pull out a couple of wins against the blades this weekend.

So, you guys are tied for last place and the trade deadline is two and a half weeks away. Vanscourt has been unloaded. I'm guessing you are sellers. Has their been any rumblings about a huge package for Mark McNeill. How likely or unlikely does anyone see him being moved on or before Jan. 10? We have a barrage of hot prospects we could afford to package up. He or Vause from S.C. would look pretty good between Stone and Ferland. I know he'd be quite expensive considering he's only 18 this year. But if there was half a chance to get him, somebody will. Any thoughts?

[lordstanley]

They would be dumb not to rebuild this year same goes for Lethbridge and Swift Current

[Raider Believer]

Assuming that the current 8th and 7th place teams in our conference only play .500 hockey from here till the end of the season ... it would place a playoff positon at somewhere around 78 points. This also assumes that none of the currently positioned non playoff teams catch fire .... then the Raiders will need to win something like 23 or 24 games of their next 31 games. Not impossible but very, very difficult. It means playing .770 hockey and hoping that teams like Red Deer don't keep pace. Does anyone believe in miracles?

I think Bruno has a real problem. He promised everyone that we would be contending after 5 years (his 5 year plan). This is his 5th season. If he becomes a seller now i.e. sells off Maylan, Corbin and Tochkin, he will receive prospects and picks. It will be tough for them to win for him now, or even next year. Winther, Danyluk, McVeigh et al are good players but not studs like McNeil. And there is no guarantee that McNeil won't stick with Hawks next season, the salary cap issues in Chicago might be a window of opportunity for him to stick. So maybe the 5 year plan will become a 9 year plan? Additionally, although I like the two most recent deals, I'm a little concerned about our goalkeeping now. Holewenko has always been a little streaky, a good technical and positonal keeper but suspect in close and maybe lacking a little in athleticism IMO. And please don't jump all over the place with this assessment ... I've watched him in every place he's played, excepting the couple of games in Chilliwack, including the Centennials in Merritt, Westside and minor hockey tournaments where he backstopped for Penticton where another good '93 keeper hails from .... Darren Hogg.

[Wapitikev]

Ok, I agree not yo jump on you. :)


Assuming that the current 8th and 7th place teams in our conference only play .500 hockey from here till the end of the season ... it would place a playoff positon at somewhere around 78 points. This also assumes that none of the currently positioned non playoff teams catch fire .... then the Raiders will need to win something like 23 or 24 games of their next 31 games. Not impossible but very, very difficult. It means playing .770 hockey and hoping that teams like Red Deer don't keep pace. Does anyone believe in miracles?

I don't think the boys will play .770 hockey the rest of the way, either...probably closer to .500, particularly without Herrod. The last two games against Brandon this weekend could set the tone for the rest of the season.

But, I don't necessarily think that 78 points is the measure of success or failure for this season. Nor is making the playoffs.

In the last 15 years The Raiders have finished with less than 67 points 8 times.

Since his first bantam draft as GM the team has never finished the season with less than 67 points.

That means that, in the 12 seasons prior to 2008/2009 the Raiders finished the season with less points than the worst full-season under Mr C. as GM...only 1/3 of the time.

So pre Bruno GM 1/3 of the time at 67 or better, post Bruno GM 100% of the time.

So Mr. C is the most consistent winner (as GM) in Prince Albert, in 15 years.

True 67 points may not make the playoffs this year but it was good enough to tie for the playoffs 3 years ago and to make the playoffs last year.

So 18 wins out of 31 is .580...much easier than .770

Lastly, and I've said this in the past, when Bruno took over as GM, except for Herrod, the cupboard was bare...which means you can trade anyone you want to make the team better.

Next year, your draft picks are only 16 (assuming they play at all), so you can still trade almost anyone...except maybe a guy or two.

Next year, you have some 17 y-olds and a maybe a couple of 16 y-olds, which still allows for a large number of bodies to move for trades.

However, this year is the crunch year...without selling your quality 18, 17, and 16 y-old players there is a far more limited pool of players to trade in order to get better...3-20s and a few 19s.

This is the year that was going to be the toughest out of any multi-year plan, even before Parker bailed.

Next year you will have all McNeil (since he has only a slim chance to make the Hawks) Ruop, Hlinka, Holowenko, etc. as 19 y-olds, plus the quality 18s (this year's 17s) and 17s (this year's 16s) and then any 16s that can play like Gardiner and Vanstone.

In other words...you should not have to be trader-cliff to have a team full of skilled players...next year. This will be the first time this has occurred in PA in almost a decade.


I think Bruno has a real problem. He promised everyone that we would be contending after 5 years (his 5 year plan). This is his 5th season.

So Bruno made this promise as head coach...even though he couldn't control drafting and trades? Please point me at your source for that claim.

As GM, Mr. C would have been expected to pitch a 5-year plan. That plan would be finishing its 4th year in a few weeks.

See above for how much better the team (that he has built as GM) will be in the 5th year since he took over as GM.


If he becomes a seller now i.e. sells off Maylan, Corbin and Tochkin, he will receive prospects and picks. It will be tough for them to win for him now, or even next year. Winther, Danyluk, McVeigh et al are good players but not studs like McNeil.

We can agree to disagree.


And there is no guarantee that McNeil won't stick with Hawks next season, the salary cap issues in Chicago might be a window of opportunity for him to stick.

Or more likely than that, he won't...


So maybe the 5 year plan will become a 9 year plan?

You're just being silly now. Under your math a 6-year plan is all that's necessary to get us to next year...5 years since he became GM.


Additionally, although I like the two most recent deals, I'm a little concerned about our goalkeeping now. Holewenko has always been a little streaky, a good technical and positonal keeper but suspect in close and maybe lacking a little in athleticism IMO. And please don't jump all over the place with this assessment ... I've watched him in every place he's played, excepting the couple of games in Chilliwack, including the Centennials in Merritt, Westside and minor hockey tournaments where he backstopped for Penticton where another good '93 keeper hails from .... Darren Hogg.

Not jumping on you here.

Cole is streaky and is still developing...he needs to stay mentally tough and keep developing his skills in order to be the #1 out of camp next year.

Or we could trade for someone more developed, already.

So, to sum up:

-Winningest GM in PA in 15 years.
-2011-2012 = Lowest number of players available to trade (without mortgaging the future) since he started as GM.
-2012-2013 = Most stocked with talent team in PA in a decade...and getting better with every trade.

Either way, if the Raiders lose either of the two games to Brandon on Friday and Saturday, then even 67 points will be hard to achieve and the writing will be on the wall...for this year.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

No offence Waptikev I like your optimisim but that was the worst arguement I have ever read. Bruno pubicly said it was a 5 year plan. If you know you are not making the playoffs and you can get assets for guys that are gone next year like Maylan and Tochkin you have to do it to improve future years. Maybe you forgot when a past gm didnt trade Chipchura and Byers and set us back years. And to add to that, the more we win and just miss the playoffs by the worse our draft position gets. I say sell it all and look for 1st overall.

[Wapitikev]

No offence Waptikev I like your optimisim but that was the worst arguement I have ever read. Bruno pubicly said it was a 5 year plan.

I'm sorry you don't accept the facts in my argument.

More importantly, I'm not saying Mr. Campese did NOT say that he had a 5-year plan.

I'm saying that you have the dates wrong.

A coach cannot draft. A coach cannot trade for better players. Why would a coach have a 5-year plan for rebuilding the team? It makes no sense.

That's a GM's job and he has only been GM for 4 years

So unless you can show me a dated statement that he said he had a 5-year development plan to overhaul the team, in the summer of 2007, when he took over as head-coach, then I'm saying your math is wrong.


If you know you are not making the playoffs and you can get assets for guys that are gone next year like Maylan and Tochkin you have to do it to improve future years.

I believe I said that was a no-brainer on another thread yesterday.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Selling off 20 y-old players for assets is already underway as evidenced in the most recent trade.


Maybe you forgot when a past gm didnt trade Chipchura and Byers and set us back years.

Based on Mr. Campese's track record as GM, I think it is safe to assume that, intelligence-wise, he is a couple of evolutionary steps up the ladder from the GM who did that.

But not trading them for assets only screws up one draft-year...the Raider GM(s) have been dismal at drafting for more than a decade before McNeil was drafted. And don't even get me started on trades prior to 2008.

Not selling assets in 2005 was one of the least of their sins.


And to add to that, the more we win and just miss the playoffs by the worse our draft position gets. I say sell it all and look for 1st overall.

Ok, lets say we tank for 1st on purpose...you know as well as I do that everyone who has their 5-year math wrong, and their dog, would be calling for the GM to be fired.

I'm pretty sure that Brian Burke refused to tank to make the leafs better and Mr. Campese does not strike me as the kind of weasel who would, either.

-Wapitikev

[The Wheatiemaniac]

I'm sorry you don't accept the facts in my argument.

More importantly, I'm not saying Mr. Campese did NOT say that he had a 5-year plan.

I'm saying that you have the dates wrong.

A coach cannot draft. A coach cannot trade for better players. Why would a coach have a 5-year plan for rebuilding the team? It makes no sense.

That's a GM's job and he has only been GM for 4 years

So unless you can show me a dated statement that he said he had a 5-year development plan to overhaul the team, in the summer of 2007, when he took over as head-coach, then I'm saying your math is wrong.



I believe I said that was a no-brainer on another thread yesterday.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Selling off 20 y-old players for assets is already underway as evidenced in the most recent trade.



Based on Mr. Campese's track record as GM, I think it is safe to assume that, intelligence-wise, he is a couple of evolutionary steps up the ladder from the GM who did that.

But not trading them for assets only screws up one draft-year...the Raider GM(s) have been dismal at drafting for more than a decade before McNeil was drafted. And don't even get me started on trades prior to 2008.

Not selling assets in 2005 was one of the least of their sins.



Ok, lets say we tank for 1st on purpose...you know as well as I do that everyone who has their 5-year math wrong, and their dog, would be calling for the GM to be fired.

I'm pretty sure that Brian Burke refused to tank to make the leafs better and Mr. Campese does not strike me as the kind of weasel who would, either.

-Wapitikev

For last place, I don't think you could possibly catch Everett if you tried. I think they will even unload more than you guys. From there, the first pick will be all theirs.

[XCHEKR]

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how many ways or times you can put this out there and no one has got the point!!!:eek: Stop & Read > that is all you have to do! Hope to see some good games coming up! I'm sure they are missing Mr. Herrod!

[chalk_one_up]

Ok, I agree not yo jump on you. :)



I don't think the boys will play .770 hockey the rest of the way, either...probably closer to .500, particularly without Herrod. The last two games against Brandon this weekend could set the tone for the rest of the season.

But, I don't necessarily think that 78 points is the measure of success or failure for this season. Nor is making the playoffs.

In the last 15 years The Raiders have finished with less than 67 points 8 times.

Since his first bantam draft as GM the team has never finished the season with less than 67 points.

That means that, in the 12 seasons prior to 2008/2009 the Raiders finished the season with less points than the worst full-season under Mr C. as GM...only 1/3 of the time.

So pre Bruno GM 1/3 of the time at 67 or better, post Bruno GM 100% of the time.

So Mr. C is the most consistent winner (as GM) in Prince Albert, in 15 years.

True 67 points may not make the playoffs this year but it was good enough to tie for the playoffs 3 years ago and to make the playoffs last year.

So 18 wins out of 31 is .580...much easier than .770

Lastly, and I've said this in the past, when Bruno took over as GM, except for Herrod, the cupboard was bare...which means you can trade anyone you want to make the team better.

Next year, your draft picks are only 16 (assuming they play at all), so you can still trade almost anyone...except maybe a guy or two.

Next year, you have some 17 y-olds and a maybe a couple of 16 y-olds, which still allows for a large number of bodies to move for trades.

However, this year is the crunch year...without selling your quality 18, 17, and 16 y-old players there is a far more limited pool of players to trade in order to get better...3-20s and a few 19s.

This is the year that was going to be the toughest out of any multi-year plan, even before Parker bailed.

Next year you will have all McNeil (since he has only a slim chance to make the Hawks) Ruop, Hlinka, Holowenko, etc. as 19 y-olds, plus the quality 18s (this year's 17s) and 17s (this year's 16s) and then any 16s that can play like Gardiner and Vanstone.

In other words...you should not have to be trader-cliff to have a team full of skilled players...next year. This will be the first time this has occurred in PA in almost a decade.



So Bruno made this promise as head coach...even though he couldn't control drafting and trades? Please point me at your source for that claim.

As GM, Mr. C would have been expected to pitch a 5-year plan. That plan would be finishing its 4th year in a few weeks.

See above for how much better the team (that he has built as GM) will be in the 5th year since he took over as GM.



We can agree to disagree.



Or more likely than that, he won't...



You're just being silly now. Under your math a 6-year plan is all that's necessary to get us to next year...5 years since he became GM.



Not jumping on you here.

Cole is streaky and is still developing...he needs to stay mentally tough and keep developing his skills in order to be the #1 out of camp next year.

Or we could trade for someone more developed, already.

So, to sum up:

-Winningest GM in PA in 15 years.
-2011-2012 = Lowest number of players available to trade (without mortgaging the future) since he started as GM.
-2012-2013 = Most stocked with talent team in PA in a decade...and getting better with every trade.

Either way, if the Raiders lose either of the two games to Brandon on Friday and Saturday, then even 67 points will be hard to achieve and the writing will be on the wall...for this year.

-Wapitikev

Yeah that wasn't obsessive and over-the-top at all :rolleyes:

[Raider Believer]

Wapitikev, Comparing Bruno's very poor record as being favorable against the even more dismal record of previous administrations is unfortunately a telling and damning indictment against the judgment of the Raiders Board of Directors.

The fact that you seem so comfortable with Bruno's record is very disconcerting. The only 'comparing' that is relevant is the Raider's record against other teams for the past 5 seasons. Five years ago there were other teams as weak or weaker than the Raiders. And there have been other teams subsequent to that who have suffered through lean years. All of those teams have recovered and are higher in the standings than Bruno's Raiders.

I will happily concede that Bruno does have some strengths as a General Manager. He has been learning on the job. Don't forget that in his first year as GM, he had 10 picks and drafted McNeil, Ruopp and Waseylenko ... the latter being a marginal pick and only just recently rostered. He also drafted the likes of Stewart, Persley, Balson, Formosa, Frank, Robinson, Sowa and a couple of other forgetables.... not exactly a memorable or stellar draft year. The 09, 10 and 11 draft years are still a little too early to assess, so therefore I will agree that maybe the jury is still out. And yes, I also agree that when Bruno took over the cupboard was pretty bare. In fairness, on the positive side, he and his scouts have identified some useful free agents and on balance made some good trades. However, some of that has been negated by what is perceived as his exaggerated sense of self ... which has gotten in the way of communicating effectively with some of the players during his regime. Too many players have done whatever they can to get out of town .... and that has cost the team.

[Wapitikev]

Wapitikev, Comparing Bruno's very poor record as being favorable against the even more dismal record of previous administrations is unfortunately a telling and damning indictment against the judgment of the Raiders Board of Directors.

...at least prior to 2008, yes. Perhaps we can discuss the merits of a single owner running things as opposed to the group decision-making of a board. (I'll take the pro single owner side).


The fact that you seem so comfortable with Bruno's record is very disconcerting. The only 'comparing' that is relevant is the Raider's record against other teams for the past 5 seasons. Five years ago there were other teams as weak or weaker than the Raiders. And there have been other teams subsequent to that who have suffered through lean years. All of those teams have recovered and are higher in the standings than Bruno's Raiders.

True, but those teams likely had better players in the pipeline than this team did when the "rebuild" started. 20 x nothing is still nothing. We'd have to look at each team to compare, but I'm sure we'd see some better assets than what the Raiders had to deal with in 2008, as you discuss below.


I will happily concede that Bruno does have some strengths as a General Manager. He has been learning on the job. Don't forget that in his first year as GM, he had 10 picks and drafted McNeil, Ruopp and Waseylenko ... the latter being a marginal pick and only just recently rostered. He also drafted the likes of Stewart, Persley, Balson, Formosa, Frank, Robinson, Sowa and a couple of other forgetables.... not exactly a memorable or stellar draft year. The 09, 10 and 11 draft years are still a little too early to assess, so therefore I will agree that maybe the jury is still out. And yes, I also agree that when Bruno took over the cupboard was pretty bare. In fairness, on the positive side, he and his scouts have identified some useful free agents and on balance made some good trades.

Very balanced...we might be closer to agreeing than I thought.


However, some of that has been negated by what is perceived as his exaggerated sense of self ... which has gotten in the way of communicating effectively with some of the players during his regime. Too many players have done whatever they can to get out of town .... and that has cost the team.

...and these players are at the top of which league in the scoring/goal tending stats? Why would players who whine and ask to leave and then achieve poorly at the next place be a negative comment on the first GM?

The only thing it shows is that Bruno doesn't waste time with players that don't want to play for him for whatever reason.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how many ways or times you can put this out there and no one has got the point!!!:eek: Stop & Read > that is all you have to do! Hope to see some good games coming up! I'm sure they are missing Mr. Herrod!

I agree, XCHECKR, the facts speak for themselves...if they care to listen.

But your comment goes both ways...maybe I should give up trying to insert the facts into people's negativity.:brickwall:

Sigh.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Yeah that wasn't obsessive and over-the-top at all :rolleyes:

Only for a someone who cares about conjecture, more than reality.:rolleyes:

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

I believe it is fair to say that if Bruno does not move assets Maylan, Tochkin and Corbin by the deadline and thereby allows his ego to insist the team is headed for the playoffs, then he should be fired at the end of the season.

[Wapitikev]

I believe it is fair to say that if Bruno does not move assets Maylan, Tochkin and Corbin by the deadline and thereby allows his ego to insist the team is headed for the playoffs, then he should be be fired at the end of the season.

I'm sure he'll move whomever he can...if no-one is buying what you're selling then it's tough to sell.

None of those assets, if lost, will affect the team as much as Parker bailing for the money and the ego last summer, though.

As for getting fired, the Raiders have fired worse and may have fired better. I'm reserving judgment until the end of the season.

...speaking of that, it is good to see you back before the EOS, RB.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

I'm sure he'll move whomever he can...if no-one is buying what you're selling then it's tough to sell.

None of those assets, if lost, will affect the team as much as Parker bailing for the money and the ego last summer, though.

As for getting fired, the Raiders have fired worse and may have fired better. I'm reserving judgment until the end of the season.

...speaking of that, it is good to see you back before the EOS, RB.

-Wapitikev

Thanks Wapitikev. Just couldn't resist the excitement :p

[XCHEKR]

I agree, XCHECKR, the facts speak for themselves...if they care to listen.

But your comment goes both ways...maybe I should give up trying to insert the facts into people's negativity.:brickwall:

Sigh.

-Wapitikev

I am sure whatever you tell some as in facts or your perception of the matters at hand > you will always be met with this kind of attitude. I wonder how they get through their day???:eek: They just want Brunos head on the chopping block PERIOD right from the start .... were there any kind of comments made when the team was maybe hitting it right or just sarcasm??? Yes, we know the answer to that!!!

[Wapitikev]

Thanks Wapitikev. Just couldn't resist the excitement :p

:thumb:

[the voice]

I think we are heading in the right direction player wise. Bruno may tweek after this weekend and likely for the better. You have to admit the Herrod deal was a good one for the Raiders and for Herrod (I think Bruno cared about that). Yes we lost bad last game, but McVeigh lived up to his end of that deal. Plus we gained a few years of use in a player. We have many good younger players who will get better. Some are playing roles and may break out offensively when asked to. Some have been injured and haven't had a chance to get rolling. If the scouts pick up a few more free agents and have prospects come in next fall and challenge the current crop, we improve yet again. So while top end teams this year may be heavy in the potent older players, some day they will have to rebuild......likely about the time the current young Raiders hit their stride.

[Wapitikev]

For last place, I don't think you could possibly catch Everett if you tried. I think they will even unload more than you guys. From there, the first pick will be all theirs.

Excellent point...and from a Wheaties fan, no less. :)

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

I think we are heading in the right direction player wise. Bruno may tweek after this weekend and likely for the better. You have to admit the Herrod deal was a good one for the Raiders and for Herrod (I think Bruno cared about that). Yes we lost bad last game, but McVeigh lived up to his end of that deal. Plus we gained a few years of use in a player. We have many good younger players who will get better. Some are playing roles and may break out offensively when asked to. Some have been injured and haven't had a chance to get rolling. If the scouts pick up a few more free agents and have prospects come in next fall and challenge the current crop, we improve yet again. So while top end teams this year may be heavy in the potent older players, some day they will have to rebuild......likely about the time the current young Raiders hit their stride.

Surprisingly, I agree with all of the above provided that Bruno moves the 20 year olds and maybe Corbin for some younger assets.

[The Wheatiemaniac]

Surprisingly, I agree with all of the above provided that Bruno moves the 20 year olds and maybe Corbin for some younger assets.

Kudos to the Raiders fans for the reception of Mark Stone after the presentation to him for winning a bronze medal. Nice touch to recognize a guy who sacrificed his Christmas holiday to proudly represent our country.

[AAAScout]

i remember doing the same for trevor kidd as well in pa when he was a wheatking. Prince Albert has always been very classy in that regard for any teams players who have represented Canada.

it was actually sad that Clouston made him dress, he deserved a day off, his tank was on empty and deserved a day off.

[The Wheatiemaniac]

i remember doing the same for trevor kidd as well in pa when he was a wheatking. Prince Albert has always been very classy in that regard for any teams players who have represented Canada.

it was actually sad that Clouston made him dress, he deserved a day off, his tank was on empty and deserved a day off.

But you're right. Now he'll be tanked for both games.

[Dwight Schrute]

ok wapitikev since its the trade deadline time now and that means it has been 5 full years since bruno was fully handed the reigns as gm. can you stop saying we are in year 4 of the magical 5 year plan ?


also parker bailing for the money and ego ???? oh my god a major junior player signed a nhl contract after working his ass off in camp to get it. and has played well in the ahl. will you say the same about mcneill if he plays in chicago next year ?


as far as the deadline goes the returns i want to see are 94 born players maybe 95's. 2013 picks which could be used to aquire players next summer might be smart also.
looking ahead to next season our 3 92's would be ? yaworski, bardaro, and one of bouris hart, corbin (personally i like bouris) has wasalynko done enough to unload corbin and or hart ?

[the voice]

Nice to see Bourhis back there for a stint. I threw that out there earlier in a fall post mainly because he will be 20 and that should be held by a scoring forward. As a d-man, he could be a tough shut down d man that can also cover up front next year if injuries happen or players away. He may not be top 4 d, but likely in lineup every night. If Yaworski and Bourhis are on d, that adds toughness, supports the youth, and a player like Braid can get back to being offensive and yet tough...in the Lucic mould. Will be tough to say farewell to any of the players that may go. As for people bringing up Bruno's 5 year plan, you have to admit the Raiders are fielding a competetive team as we sit. Playoffs or no playoffs, it's entertaining and currently successful. What Bruno has done 2,3,4 years ago is fading. It's the old "what have you done lately?", and in my eyes he's done well. Perhaps it coincides with his concentrating on GM duties only. I'm sure the three coaches are doing their part. Knock on wood, we keep progressing and we keep enjoying the turnaround.

[Raider Believer]

Nice to see Bourhis back there for a stint. I threw that out there earlier in a fall post mainly because he will be 20 and that should be held by a scoring forward. As a d-man, he could be a tough shut down d man that can also cover up front next year if injuries happen or players away. He may not be top 4 d, but likely in lineup every night. If Yaworski and Bourhis are on d, that adds toughness, supports the youth, and a player like Braid can get back to being offensive and yet tough...in the Lucic mould. Will be tough to say farewell to any of the players that may go. As for people bringing up Bruno's 5 year plan, you have to admit the Raiders are fielding a competetive team as we sit. Playoffs or no playoffs, it's entertaining and currently successful. What Bruno has done 2,3,4 years ago is fading. It's the old "what have you done lately?", and in my eyes he's done well. Perhaps it coincides with his concentrating on GM duties only. I'm sure the three coaches are doing their part. Knock on wood, we keep progressing and we keep enjoying the turnaround.

The team looked very, very good last night. The youngsters are coming into their own and ..... yes, I agree that since Bruno has been relieved of his coaching duties, the team has progressed, which is a further evidence of what a horrific coach he was. Hopefully he does what is necessary as a GM between now and January 10th, recently his GM decisions have been very good, and in fairness I think he is a pretty good GM, as long as he isn't allowed to have actual contact or communication with the players. The coaches and players are doing their jobs and the team is playing exciting and entertaining hockey right now.

[Raider Believer]

Holewenko has always been a little streaky, a good technical and positonal keeper but suspect in close and maybe lacking a little in athleticism IMO. And please don't jump all over the place with this assessment ... I've watched him in every place he's played, excepting the couple of games in Chilliwack, including the Centennials in Merritt, Westside and minor hockey tournaments where he backstopped for Penticton where another good '93 keeper hails from .... Darren Hogg.

Jan 7/2012 vs. Brandon
Did I say that maybe there might be goaltending issues???

[The Wheatiemaniac]

Jan 7/2012 vs. Brandon
Did I say that maybe there might be goaltending issues???

It was a close til the third. I know you all didn't want to see that. But we needed that spark. Now we can both wonder for different reasons.....how long will this last?

[Sttop]

Jan 7/2012 vs. Brandon
Did I say that maybe there might be goaltending issues???

defence was 100% the problem tonight

[The Wheatiemaniac]

defence was 100% the problem tonight

I've seen Holowenko play before and he is a godd young goalie. Tonight just wasn't his night. Look at the bright side, you never had to live through 3 years of Andrew Hayes.

[puckdad]

Softest defense I have seen played in PA in 23 years. No coverage on rebounds, no coverage of open man at the net, beaten on the boards. Couple that with porous goaltending and you've got an 11 goal embarrassment.

[JMoney1988]

I see you guys beat and wheat, at least you didnt have Adam morrison, as for the voice who commented on our forum about scoring lots of goals on him, that will have to wait, amarakkv is injured, klimsucks charged him

[JMoney1988]

I meant marakov

[The Wheatiemaniac]

I meant marakov

The Regina player will no doubt be chatting with WHL office on Monday, and likely sitting a game or two if it's deemed intentional.

[Raider Believer]

defence was 100% the problem tonight

Tonight ... are you serious? The last 4 games have seen 29 goals scored against!

[Sttop]

I said tonight because I cant talk about the 2 previous blow outs on the road . on 8 out of the goals wheatkings were behind the defence. Have you ever heard of that?

[Raider Believer]

I said tonight because I cant talk about the 2 previous blow outs on the road . on 8 out of the goals wheatkings were behind the defence. Have you ever heard of that?


Yes, on teams with immobile talent and poor execution on the back end. Let's hope this isn't a chronic problem, compounded by a shaky goalie. Looking back I wonder how wise the Bettauer trade was ??? He and Tochkin have almost identical numbers for their respective teams, but Bettauer is a d-man, and they are way harder to find. I watched a little of MHat game today, he looked dangerous all night and was tough to get around. Me thinks we should have kept him.

[AAAScout]

Yes, on teams with immobile talent and poor execution on the back end. Let's hope this isn't a chronic problem, compounded by a shaky goalie. Looking back I wonder how wise the Bettauer trade was ??? He and Tochkin have almost identical numbers for their respective teams, but Bettauer is a d-man, and they are way harder to find. I watched a little of MHat game today, he looked dangerous all night and was tough to get around. Me thinks we should have kept him.

the bettauer trade didn't hurt it was a 20 for 20 and they needed to make room at that time for the younger guys like lange etc to get some ice time to see if they could develop. don't get me wrong, this is a better team with bettauer on it vs Tochkin, but all the same atleast it was a 20 for a 20 so we won;t have to watch it hurt again next year :)

There is no question our defense is not good, and even worse next year possibly. This is the main area that needs to be shored up, in any trades at the deadline and over the summer coming into camp for next year. it's not a bad group of forwards coming back(especially if they keep mcneill and he doesn't make the Blackhawks) but the goaltending and defense still scares me.....although we have the rest of the season to see if Holowenko can be a very consistent starter....I don't see Luke Lee Knight being here next year as the backup even, he will be gone.

[the voice]

Tough game. Definitely will be working on defensive game. Too many goals against in last 3 losses. I think some bad penalties have crept back into the games. Might lead to some moves. It was a definite Jekyll and Hyde 2 game series. Must leave both teams wondering what really needs to be done. Whatever we have in place wednesday, we go after Regina and still aim for wins, playoffs, and next year. Still lots to play for. I look forward to it being entertaining as it has, with minimum collapses like last night. and before our fans cut down the Raiders too bad, there are NHL teams out there getting beat 9-0 and they aren't teenagers. Still proud to be a raider fan.

[Wildeyes]

I am just wondering why they did keep Matt Wasylenko and ship out Mathew
Berry-Lamontagna. I the short time he was here he play really good more points than Matt BL.

[Wapitikev]

ok wapitikev since its the trade deadline time now and that means it has been 5 full years since bruno was fully handed the reigns as gm. can you stop saying we are in year 4 of the magical 5 year plan ?

Named GM in January 2008.

2008-2009 = 1 year
2009-2010 = 2 years
2010-2011 = 3 years
2011-2012 = 4 years as of this month.

2012-2013 = 5 years

...are we clear now?

Focus on the first year as Coach all you want...he wasn't GM and couldn't have had a 5-year rebuild-plan until becoming GM, 4years ago.


also parker bailing for the money and ego ???? oh my god a major junior player signed a nhl contract after working his ass off in camp to get it. and has played well in the ahl. will you say the same about mcneill if he plays in chicago next year ?

You are 100 % correct...his 4 points in 25 games for Rochester proves that he made the right decision for his career to go and develop his skills in the AHL. HOW is that "playing good", exactly? It's a good thing he didn't stay and develop in the W for another year and score a point a game.

...and the point was that PA didn't get anything for him...but thanks for ignoring it.

And as for McNeil, how can you compare making $925,000 and playing in the NHL to $60,000 and riding the bus in the A? I wouldn't begrudge McNeil a thing...he earned it over the last 3 years.

Parker, the one-year wonder, did not.


As far as the deadline goes the returns i want to see are 94 born players maybe 95's. 2013 picks which could be used to aquire players next summer might be smart also.
looking ahead to next season our 3 92's would be ? yaworski, bardaro, and one of bouris hart, corbin (personally i like bouris) has wasalynko done enough to unload corbin and or hart ?

It looks like it is time to sell. Hope we can sell high, again.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I am just wondering why they did keep Matt Wasylenko and ship out Mathew
Berry-Lamontagna. I the short time he was here he play really good more points than Matt BL.

Agreed...hope our version of the WOZ dominates when he gets back to his old club (and justifies that decision) so we can have him back in the fall.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

[QUOTE=Wapitikev;176480]Named GM in January 2008.

2008-2009 = 1 year
2009-2010 = 2 years
2010-2011 = 3 years
2011-2012 = 4 years as of this month.

2012-2013 = 5 years

...are we clear now?

Focus on the first year as Coach all you want...he wasn't GM and couldn't have had a 5-year rebuild-plan until becoming GM, 4years ago.

Wapitikev, you do realize that Bruno was making bold pronouncements about the 5 year plan on radio and to all who would listen from the moment he was hired as a coach and all through the 2007 season until he became GM in early 2008. The 5 year plan did not have its genesis when he was hired as GM but when he was hired as the coach. Funny enough, the bantam draft picks made in 2008 were scouted and picked by the previous head scout, Bruno had very little input into that draft. So he is excused from the disappointing Stewart, Robinson, Formosa and others as only MacNeill, Ruopp and Williams can/will be judged as good picks. In hindsight, only Ryan Murray who was selected after MacNeill - might now be seen as a better pick than MacNeill. This draft, despite Ruopp, MacNeill and Williams was obviously viewed as a bit of a setback for the Raiders in Bruno's eyes, and certainly greased the skids for the previous head scout to be fired ...
not to mention the disasterous first pick from 2007!

[lordstanley]

Looks like the Bardaro deal may have worked out well for both players i know Fiddler now has 7 points in 6 games with Spokane found his old touch so to speak

[Wapitikev]

Quote by Wapitikev:

Named GM in January 2008.

2008-2009 = 1 year
2009-2010 = 2 years
2010-2011 = 3 years
2011-2012 = 4 years as of this month.

2012-2013 = 5 years

...are we clear now?

Focus on the first year as Coach all you want...he wasn't GM and couldn't have had a 5-year rebuild-plan until becoming GM, 4years ago.

End-quote by Wapitikev

Wapitikev, you do realize that Bruno was making bold pronouncements about the 5 year plan on radio and to all who would listen from the moment he was hired as a coach and all through the 2007 season until he became GM in early 2008. The 5 year plan did not have its genesis when he was hired as GM but when he was hired as the coach.

So you're saying that his Coaching 5-year plan is over.

Ok.

...and he is no longer the coach.

Ok.

Problem solved.

But, it still doesn't mean that his GM-5-year plan is over until 2013.

Unless, of course you are saying that his Plan, which you insist was created at the time he was a Coaching, included the GM duties as well. That would mean that the Board and the GM would have had to accept a Rookie Coach's 5-year plan to rebuild the entire hockey team (including drafting and trading) and generally do the GM's job as well as his own, beginning in the summer of 2007, 6 or seven months before the GM was fired?

Ok.

You don't mind if I look for evidence of this superhuman 5-year rebuilding plan that Bruno-the-Coach got the GM and the Board to agree to in the summer of 2007, do you? As you say, it must be published all over the papers and the web. It surely would be in the minutes of the Raiders board meetings as well...after all, if the Head Coach is going to take over as the GM 7 months before the old GM was fired, then the Board would surely have had to have been briefed, not?.

I'll let you know what I find...since you couldn't possibly be remembering it wrong.


Funny enough, the bantam draft picks made in 2008 were scouted and picked by the previous head scout, Bruno had very little input into that draft. So he is excused from the disappointing Stewart, Robinson, Formosa and others as only MacNeill, Ruopp and Williams can/will be judged as good picks. In hindsight, only Ryan Murray who was selected after MacNeill - might now be seen as a better pick than MacNeill. This draft, despite Ruopp, MacNeill and Williams was obviously viewed as a bit of a setback for the Raiders in Bruno's eyes, and certainly greased the skids for the previous head scout to be fired ...
not to mention the disasterous first pick from 2007!

I seem to recall hearing a story in the summer of 2008 about how the new GM threw out the head scout's report regarding the top two picks in 2008 and went with his own information.

Guess that was just a rumour.

...kinda like a 5-yer plan by a Coach that involves doing the GM's job that was agreed to by the Board, completely going over the head of the current GM, over 1/2 a year before that GM was fired.

Sure.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Looks like the Bardaro deal may have worked out well for both players i know Fiddler now has 7 points in 6 games with Spokane found his old touch so to speak

Good to see Fiddler pulling a Bettauer [by doing well after he leaves PA].

Most of the players that have left via trade were not so fortunate.

I hear Williams was pulled in his two starts since the trade.

-Wapitikev

[Wildeyes]

maybe fiddler is a player that needs to get traded very year for him to play good.

Also does anyone have a list of draft selections for the next couple of years to see what we have to look for at the drafts

[Wapitikev]

The team looked very, very good last night. The youngsters are coming into their own and ..... yes, I agree that since Bruno has been relieved of his coaching duties, the team has progressed, which is a further evidence of what a horrific coach he was.

Yes because, as we saw last year, under his "poor leadership", he did a terrible job of developing McNeil, Ruop, and Parker.

Reality check: Yaworski (and others) sucked at the beginning of the season in 2010. But by the end of the season he was getting regular shift and being relied upon regularly. Bruno also managed to get the best 6 weeks of Connor's career out of him at the end of last season.

We could go down the list of who improved last year...but they were all despite Bruno, not because of him?

Ok.


Hopefully he does what is necessary as a GM between now and January 10th, recently his GM decisions have been very good, and in fairness I think he is a pretty good GM, as long as he isn't allowed to have actual contact or communication with the players. The coaches and players are doing their jobs and the team is playing exciting and entertaining hockey right now.

Agreed about the team, and the GM's recent performance.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

maybe fiddler is a player that needs to get traded very year for him to play good.

Also does anyone have a list of draft selections for the next couple of years to see what we have to look for at the drafts

The W posted the top 25 prospects (last year) in late March, early April here (http://www.whl.ca/prospects). You may have been there, already, but some may not.

Mat Barzal's profile is up there right now.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

Wapitikev,
I would think that the former GM of the team and Bruno were on the same page with the same plan when Bruno was hired. I didn't suggest that Bruno was speaking only for himself at that time. But really there is no point in debating the merits or non merits of the team (Bruno's) leadership this past 4 or 5 years. We have what we have right now. Which isn't even close to playoff contention, albeit, the team is young and at times exciting. I suspect that the goaltending is weak, will hold us back and be a big issue (we should have kept Williams), but only time will tell.
Neither you or I will be deciding Bruno's fate this summer (or maybe you are LOL). The BOD, as is their responsibility, will either renew and extend or look at whatever their options are. I am sure you are much, much closer to the situation than I am and will keep us posted.

[Wapitikev]

Wapitikev,
I would think that the former GM of the team and Bruno were on the same page with the same plan when Bruno was hired. I didn't suggest that Bruno was speaking only for himself at that time. But really there is no point in debating the merits or non merits of the team (Bruno's) leadership this past 4 or 5 years. We have what we have right now. Which isn't even close to playoff contention, albeit, the team is young and at times exciting. I suspect that the goaltending is weak, will hold us back and be a big issue (we should have kept Williams), but only time will tell.
Neither you or I will be deciding Bruno's fate this summer (or maybe you are LOL). The BOD, as is their responsibility, will either renew and extend or look at whatever their options are. I am sure you are much, much closer to the situation than I am and will keep us posted.

Being "on the same page" as your boss and "not turning that page" after he is fired because he was one of the worst GMs the Raiders ever had is nowhere near the same thing.

To say that anything that Mr. Clark developed in the summer of 2007 (5-year-plan) would still be in place even a few months after he left, let alone 4 years, is a more than a bit of a leap...

...but as you say we have what we have, this year, at the trade deadline: a non-playoff team.

As you seem to be, I'm also looking forward to Bruno working to trade more players (hopefully teams are buying what we're selling) in order to make the team even better next fall.

As far as how close I am to things, I'm as close as any season ticket holder that can pick up a phone to call a BOD member or to stop in at the Raider Offices to ask what was in the minutes from 5 years ago.

I'm sure that a community owned team would give a season ticket holder an answer as to if/when a 5-year plan was discussed in 2007 and if so who presented it.

Regarding Mr. Campese's future as GM, I am on record here as stating that Bruno, in 2009-2010-and 2011 was the most consistent point-getting GM the Raiders have had in 15 years and that this is THE season "most likely to suck" due to our "inability to trade without mortgaging the future".

As such, if I do talk to an BOD member between now and the end of the season, you can be sure that I'll be telling them what I think Mr. Campese's tenure should be for next year.

I'll find out what decision is made when a press release regarding the subject comes out.

How's your petition coming, btw?

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

Being "on the same page" as your boss and "not turning that page" after he is fired because he was one of the worst GMs the Raiders ever had is nowhere near the same thing.

To say that anything that Mr. Clark developed in the summer of 2007 (5-year-plan) would still be in place even a few months after he left, let alone 4 years, is a more than a bit of a leap...

...but as you say we have what we have, this year, at the trade deadline: a non-playoff team.

As you seem to be, I'm also looking forward to Bruno working to trade more players (hopefully teams are buying what we're selling) in order to make the team even better next fall.

As far as how close I am to things, I'm as close as any season ticket holder that can pick up a phone to call a BOD member or to stop in at the Raider Offices to ask what was in the minutes from 5 years ago.

I'm sure that a community owned team would give a season ticket holder an answer as to if/when a 5-year plan was discussed in 2007 and if so who presented it.

Regarding Mr. Campese's future as GM, I am on record here as stating that Bruno, in 2009-2010-and 2011 was the most consistent point-getting GM the Raiders have had in 15 years and that this is THE season "most likely to suck" due to our "inability to trade without mortgaging the future".

As such, if I do talk to an BOD member between now and the end of the season, you can be sure that I'll be telling them what I think Mr. Campese's tenure should be for next year.

I'll find out what decision is made when a press release regarding the subject comes out.

How's your petition coming, btw?

-Wapitikev

Is that you in there Bruno?

[Wapitikev]

Is that you in there Bruno?

Name's Kevin...not Bruno.

What's yours?

Wapitikev

[the voice]

Back to the hockey....Crunch time today and tuesday. Will be interesting to see what happens. Raiders may move 1-4 players with an eye to competing this year and building on what we now have for the future. Keeping in mind we have Gardiner, Santucci and Vanstone coming in with excellent chances to make the squad next year as forwards, we possibly need to shore up with 16/17/18 year old d men if our defence prospects are thin. Anyone out there know who we have coming in next year? I suspect our scouts will find a few free agent d men out there that will challenge.

[chalk_one_up]

It's not a deep list but:

Tyler Dea
Eric Pfeifer
Matt Waseylenko
Kaiden Tobin
Taylor Fisher

[the voice]

Considering we have Morrissey, Ruopp and Lange, add those young guys and mix in one or two of Yaworski, Corbin, Hart, Bourhis?, then likely a blue chip17-18 year old d-man would round out nicely.

[Raider Believer]

Named GM in January 2008.

2008-2009 = 1 year
2009-2010 = 2 years
2010-2011 = 3 years
2011-2012 = 4 years as of this month.

2012-2013 = 5 years

...are we clear now?

Focus on the first year as Coach all you want...he wasn't GM and couldn't have had a 5-year rebuild-plan until becoming GM, 4years ago.



You are 100 % correct...his 4 points in 25 games for Rochester proves that he made the right decision for his career to go and develop his skills in the AHL. HOW is that "playing good", exactly? It's a good thing he didn't stay and develop in the W for another year and score a point a game.

...and the point was that PA didn't get anything for him...but thanks for ignoring it.

And as for McNeil, how can you compare making $925,000 and playing in the NHL to $60,000 and riding the bus in the A? I wouldn't begrudge McNeil a thing...he earned it over the last 3 years.

Parker, the one-year wonder, did not.



It looks like it is time to sell. Hope we can sell high, again.

-Wapitikev

You know what Wapitikev?
You may or may not be Bruno, but certainly your sole purpose on this board seems to be to defend him. You go into long patronizing, condescending, rambling and convoluted explanations, mathematical wizardry and magical thinking to explain 5 years of ineptitude. Maybe its your sarcastic and mean spirited tone that are so reminiscent of Bruno that makes people think you are very close to him. Even those who defend Bruno think you are him! Too funny .. and pathetic. To be so angry at and call Parker a one year wonder and trash the former GM really makes me wonder. As for petitions ... I have talked with one Board member who actually reads this board occasionally (which kind of surprised me) for what they claimed was entertainment value, they just laughed and said the only criteria will be a review of the record, on ice and financial. They didn't seem interested in my opinion (and if you are just another fan).. probably not yours either. LOL.

[Sttop]

You know what Wapitikev?
You may or may not be Bruno, but certainly your sole purpose on this board seems to be to defend him. You go into long patronizing, condescending, rambling and convoluted explanations, mathematical wizardry and magical thinking to explain 5 years of ineptitude. Maybe its your sarcastic and mean spirited tone that are so reminiscent of Bruno that makes people think you are very close to him. Even those who defend Bruno think you are him! Too funny .. and pathetic. To be so angry at and call Parker a one year wonder and trash the former GM really makes me wonder. As for petitions ... I have talked with one Board member who actually reads this board occasionally (which kind of surprised me) for what they claimed was entertainment value, they just laughed and said the only criteria will be a review of the record, on ice and financial. They didn't seem interested in my opinion (and if you are just another fan).. probably not yours either. LOL.

lol hes not Bruno

[XCHEKR]

You know what Wapitikev?
You may or may not be Bruno, but certainly your sole purpose on this board seems to be to defend him. You go into long patronizing, condescending, rambling and convoluted explanations, mathematical wizardry and magical thinking to explain 5 years of ineptitude. Maybe its your sarcastic and mean spirited tone that are so reminiscent of Bruno that makes people think you are very close to him. Even those who defend Bruno think you are him! Too funny .. and pathetic. To be so angry at and call Parker a one year wonder and trash the former GM really makes me wonder. As for petitions ... I have talked with one Board member who actually reads this board occasionally (which kind of surprised me) for what they claimed was entertainment value, they just laughed and said the only criteria will be a review of the record, on ice and financial. They didn't seem interested in my opinion (and if you are just another fan).. probably not yours either. LOL.

You know what???? Pathetic is dwelling on Bruno period!!! What is everyday of your life like since you are so obsessed with him??? Do you wake up and think of him for the full day and how is it when you go to sleep > sounds to me like you must have a hard time doing that? Get over it already!!!:eek: Jeeez, maybe readers think you are a former employee with an axe to grind?:o Now on to what is important > Give it everything you got Raiders!!!

[Wapitikev]

You know what Wapitikev?
You may or may not be Bruno, but certainly your sole purpose on this board seems to be to defend him. You go into long patronizing, condescending, rambling and convoluted explanations, mathematical wizardry and magical thinking to explain 5 years of ineptitude. Maybe its your sarcastic and mean spirited tone that are so reminiscent of Bruno that makes people think you are very close to him. Even those who defend Bruno think you are him! Too funny .. and pathetic. To be so angry at and call Parker a one year wonder and trash the former GM really makes me wonder. As for petitions ... I have talked with one Board member who actually reads this board occasionally (which kind of surprised me) for what they claimed was entertainment value, they just laughed and said the only criteria will be a review of the record, on ice and financial. They didn't seem interested in my opinion (and if you are just another fan).. probably not yours either. LOL.

So, basically I'm you, except my posts are rambling and convoluted?

I guess I have sunk to your level.

What's good for the goose is goose is good for the gander (platitude).

I'm sorry if pointing out faulty logic or simple math is sarcastic and mean spirited.

But if facing the truth hurts, then don't say stupid things.

There that was mean spirited and condescending and a platitude.

I am glad your board-member is entertained by our antics. He SHOULD judge based on how the team has done in the 4-years that Bruno was GM (the record) and the finances.

So, did you Board Member confirm that Bruno, as a head coach, presented a 5-year plan in 2007 that said he would do the GM's job and the Board accepted it and the GM thought that was just fine?

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

You know what???? Pathetic is dwelling on Bruno period!!! What is everyday of your life like since you are so obsessed with him??? Do you wake up and think of him for the full day and how is it when you go to sleep > sounds to me like you must have a hard time doing that? Get over it already!!!:eek: Jeeez, maybe readers think you are a former employee with an axe to grind?:o Now on to what is important > Give it everything you got Raiders!!!

Go! Raiders! Go!

Here's to 20 more wins in the second half!

-Wapitikev

[XCHEKR]

So, basically I'm you, except my posts are rambling and convoluted?

I guess I have sunk to your level.

What's good for the goose is goose is good for the gander (platitude).

I'm sorry if pointing out faulty logic or simple math is sarcastic and mean spirited.

But if facing the truth hurts, then don't say stupid things.

There that was mean spirited and condescending and a platitude.

I am glad your board-member is entertained by our antics. He SHOULD judge based on how the team has done in the 4-years that Bruno was GM (the record) and the finances.

So, did you Board Member confirm that Bruno, as a head coach, presented a 5-year plan in 2007 that said he would do the GM's job and the Board accepted it and the GM thought that was just fine?

-Wapitikev

Ahhh > Board Member:o??? If the board member is entertained, I am sure the reason could be the board would know or have a good idea who wants Bruno's head on a silver platter!:rolleyes:

[Wapitikev]

Ahhh > Board Member:o??? If the board member is entertained, I am sure the reason could be the board would know or have a good idea who wants Bruno's head on a silver platter!:rolleyes:

Heh.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

You know what???? Pathetic is dwelling on Bruno period!!! What is everyday of your life like since you are so obsessed with him??? Do you wake up and think of him for the full day and how is it when you go to sleep > sounds to me like you must have a hard time doing that? Get over it already!!!:eek: Jeeez, maybe readers think you are a former employee with an axe to grind?:o Now on to what is important > Give it everything you got Raiders!!!

Maybe I do dwell about the team too much. And I've said it before, Bruno seems to be doing a decent job of managing. I like his most recent deals and quite a few of the others i.e. obtaining Parker and free agent acquisitions. Hopefully he can pull off some more magic before the deadline.

[Dwight Schrute]

so jnust something i noticed...... marc mackenzie is now with red deer. 5 games 3 pts and 7 pim. nice to see him back in the dub

[AAAScout]

Well, any chance at the post season vanished in that 4 game stint with Brandon and Regina, absolutely had to win atleast 3 of those 4 games to even think of having a chance. hopefully the rest of the way they play the young guys and see what they have to offer for next year and where changes have to be made in the off season...........like our "D" which is terrible and at the same time old for WHL standards. I believe we have 3 solid D to keep and build on for next year, and I guess we see what this Guenther brings to the table as a possible 6th Dman for next year.

[puckdad]

He wasnt too good tonight against the blades. Caught puck-watching on the 1st stoon goal and pivoted the wrong way on the 5th.

[AAAScout]

Ok, I agree not yo jump on you. :)



I don't think the boys will play .770 hockey the rest of the way, either...probably closer to .500, particularly without Herrod. The last two games against Brandon this weekend could set the tone for the rest of the season.

But, I don't necessarily think that 78 points is the measure of success or failure for this season. Nor is making the playoffs.

In the last 15 years The Raiders have finished with less than 67 points 8 times.

Since his first bantam draft as GM the team has never finished the season with less than 67 points.

That means that, in the 12 seasons prior to 2008/2009 the Raiders finished the season with less points than the worst full-season under Mr C. as GM...only 1/3 of the time.

So pre Bruno GM 1/3 of the time at 67 or better, post Bruno GM 100% of the time.

So Mr. C is the most consistent winner (as GM) in Prince Albert, in 15 years.

True 67 points may not make the playoffs this year but it was good enough to tie for the playoffs 3 years ago and to make the playoffs last year.

So 18 wins out of 31 is .580...much easier than .770

Lastly, and I've said this in the past, when Bruno took over as GM, except for Herrod, the cupboard was bare...which means you can trade anyone you want to make the team better.

Next year, your draft picks are only 16 (assuming they play at all), so you can still trade almost anyone...except maybe a guy or two.

Next year, you have some 17 y-olds and a maybe a couple of 16 y-olds, which still allows for a large number of bodies to move for trades.

However, this year is the crunch year...without selling your quality 18, 17, and 16 y-old players there is a far more limited pool of players to trade in order to get better...3-20s and a few 19s.

This is the year that was going to be the toughest out of any multi-year plan, even before Parker bailed.

Next year you will have all McNeil (since he has only a slim chance to make the Hawks) Ruop, Hlinka, Holowenko, etc. as 19 y-olds, plus the quality 18s (this year's 17s) and 17s (this year's 16s) and then any 16s that can play like Gardiner and Vanstone.

In other words...you should not have to be trader-cliff to have a team full of skilled players...next year. This will be the first time this has occurred in PA in almost a decade.



So Bruno made this promise as head coach...even though he couldn't control drafting and trades? Please point me at your source for that claim.

As GM, Mr. C would have been expected to pitch a 5-year plan. That plan would be finishing its 4th year in a few weeks.

See above for how much better the team (that he has built as GM) will be in the 5th year since he took over as GM.



We can agree to disagree.



Or more likely than that, he won't...



You're just being silly now. Under your math a 6-year plan is all that's necessary to get us to next year...5 years since he became GM.



Not jumping on you here.

Cole is streaky and is still developing...he needs to stay mentally tough and keep developing his skills in order to be the #1 out of camp next year.

Or we could trade for someone more developed, already.

So, to sum up:

-Winningest GM in PA in 15 years.
-2011-2012 = Lowest number of players available to trade (without mortgaging the future) since he started as GM.
-2012-2013 = Most stocked with talent team in PA in a decade...and getting better with every trade.

Either way, if the Raiders lose either of the two games to Brandon on Friday and Saturday, then even 67 points will be hard to achieve and the writing will be on the wall...for this year.

-Wapitikev



we can throw all the could haves, should haves and maybes out the window, the Raiders have now fallen into last place all alone behind Lethbridge. Whether this was a 4 year plan, 5 year plan or who enacted it really doesn't matter at this point. the BOTTOM LINE is this team is not good enough to warrant any of the current management staff or the head coach to remain with the team next year. Everything has been tried, trades,call ups, different coach etc and this team still loses hockey games more than it wins them. So you can tell me we have better fish in the sea now as compared to before Bruno, and we are better next year blah blah blah this team is not good enough and how will it be much better next year with what we will lose and what we will keep?

Goaltending and defense is a HUGE issue as is the discipline of this team under both coaches, we will be able to score next year, but hey we haven't had any issues doing that this year. How are we going to keep the puck out of our net enough to be a contender with this group of sad sack D men and no solid goaltending, and a complete lack of discipline?

and the 50 man list is one of the weakest in the league!!

[Raider Believer]

we can throw all the could haves, should haves and maybes out the window, the Raiders have now fallen into last place all alone behind Lethbridge. Whether this was a 4 year plan, 5 year plan or who enacted it really doesn't matter at this point. the BOTTOM LINE is this team is not good enough to warrant any of the current management staff or the head coach to remain with the team next year. Everything has been tried, trades,call ups, different coach etc and this team still loses hockey games more than it wins them. So you can tell me we have better fish in the sea now as compared to before Bruno, and we are better next year blah blah blah this team is not good enough and how will it be much better next year with what we will lose and what we will keep?

Goaltending and defense is a HUGE issue as is the discipline of this team under both coaches, we will be able to score next year, but hey we haven't had any issues doing that this year. How are we going to keep the puck out of our net enough to be a contender with this group of sad sack D men and no solid goaltending, and a complete lack of discipline?

and the 50 man list is one of the weakest in the league!!

Couldn't agree with you more! My guess is Bruno will accept another position in some other organization either in Europe or the East Coast Hockey League and then claim (more magical thinking) that it is step forward for him. Bruno and his supporters have more 'spins' on failure than a Savardian Spinorama :)

[the voice]

Edmonton is classless. Up 6 and still putting out top pp. St Croix doesn't deserve any success if that's what situations he needs to score goals. Laxdal isn't bright enough to understand unwritten rules. Remember this night.

[reims]

Edmonton is classless. Up 6 and still putting out top pp. St Croix doesn't deserve any success if that's what situations he needs to score goals. Laxdal isn't bright enough to understand unwritten rules. Remember this night.

cmon now...no need for this...you tellin me the raiders wouldnt stick it to the blades with there top pp in a 9-2 game?...i get that your frustrated but dumb comment...

[AAAScout]

Edmonton is classless. Up 6 and still putting out top pp. St Croix doesn't deserve any success if that's what situations he needs to score goals. Laxdal isn't bright enough to understand unwritten rules. Remember this night.

I sincerely beg to differ, the Raiders were running around trying to cheap shot guys and play like a bunch of renegade goons and taking every cheap shot they could. the best way to answer that is not by retaliating, it is by PUTTING THE PUCK IN THE NET!!

They weren't going to fight, the raiders knew that but kept slashing, hacking,punching cross checking etc, so you wanna play goons, they played let's rub it in by scoring more goals........ the unwritten rule is there, but when the raiders move corbin and hart etc up front and they start cheap shotting everyone at every whistle, i guess that could be deemed as classless by Edmonton so they returned the favor by running out the top guns.

just a few short years ago both teams tied for a playoff game for the last playoff spot...........look where they are now, and look where we are, where would you rather be??

[Dwight Schrute]

I sincerely beg to differ, the Raiders were running around trying to cheap shot guys and play like a bunch of renegade goons and taking every cheap shot they could. the best way to answer that is not by retaliating, it is by PUTTING THE PUCK IN THE NET!!

They weren't going to fight, the raiders knew that but kept slashing, hacking,punching cross checking etc, so you wanna play goons, they played let's rub it in by scoring more goals........ the unwritten rule is there, but when the raiders move corbin and hart etc up front and they start cheap shotting everyone at every whistle, i guess that could be deemed as classless by Edmonton so they returned the favor by running out the top guns.

just a few short years ago both teams tied for a playoff game for the last playoff spot...........look where they are now, and look where we are, where would you rather be?? geez and down 9-3 to the blades the couldnt even muster enough testosterone to push back when pushed or defend their goalie being run. what would make them step up tonight ? was it cause it was a home game ?

[AAAScout]

geez and down 9-3 to the blades the couldnt even muster enough testosterone to push back when pushed or defend their goalie being run. what would make them step up tonight ? was it cause it was a home game ?

the blades have guys that are more than willing to drop their gloves and some that even really enjoy dropping their gloves......Edmonton on the other hand play a very fast disciplined style.......everyone always feels tougher when the other team doesn't have anyone that scares them :)

[Wapitikev]

Quoting my post from over two weeks ago? When the Raiders were coming off their best month of the season and hopes, for some, of making a playoff push were still alive?

Hindsight is 20/20 but here goes...


Goaltending and defense is a HUGE issue as is the discipline of this team under both coaches, we will be able to score next year, but hey we haven't had any issues doing that this year. How are we going to keep the puck out of our net enough to be a contender with this group of sad sack D men and no solid goaltending, and a complete lack of discipline?

Agreed, we need better goaltending and some replacements on D.

Here's hoping we can get a decent, spare, 20 y-o goalie off someone next fall and that either Feiblekorn or Holowenko can develop into the number 1 for 2013/14.

Defense next fall: Ruop, Morrissey, Lange, Guenther, Waselenko

That's a decent top 5, considering their age, not to mention that without the needless penalties of departing defensemen, the discipline level just went up.

That only leaves 2 spots open to fill via trade or calling up Tyler Dea, Taylor Fisher, Eric Pfeifer or Kaiden Tobin.

You're right, absolutely horrible. :omG:


we can throw all the could haves, should haves and maybes out the window, the Raiders have now fallen into last place all alone behind Lethbridge. Whether this was a 4 year plan, 5 year plan or who enacted it really doesn't matter at this point. the BOTTOM LINE is this team is not good enough to warrant any of the current management staff or the head coach to remain with the team next year. Everything has been tried, trades,call ups, different coach etc and this team still loses hockey games more than it wins them. So you can tell me we have better fish in the sea now as compared to before Bruno, and we are better next year blah blah blah this team is not good enough and how will it be much better next year with what we will lose and what we will keep?

Newsflash the team, overall, is not good this year...I already said, over a month ago and again in the post you quoted, that this year was, in the progression of the complete rebuild, the year most likely to suck.

And blah blah blah is the best argument you can muster to refute my suggestion that the players 18 and under in the system, now, are better than they were in 2008 when Clark left?

The best players on the team (except Myalan) are 18 and under...how many of them will we lose next year? None, unless they play their way off it.

The least talented players on the team are 19 and 20. How many of them will we not have to see next fall? Most, unless they get much better really soon.

Keeping the most talented and losing the less talented is, in most people's world, a good way to improve your team next year.


and the 50 man list is one of the weakest in the league!!

Thank you for that extensive review of all 1100 players on all 22 teams. :confused:

I must concede the argument. Just like Brian Burke and Ron Wilson (who everyone wanted fired at this point last year) the Raiders have no chance of being better next year and everyone should be fired. :rolleyes:

Or we could wait 1 more year and find out what the end of the complete rebuild brings.

I'll mark you and Raider Believer down as a no, on that.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I sincerely beg to differ, the Raiders were running around trying to cheap shot guys and play like a bunch of renegade goons and taking every cheap shot they could. the best way to answer that is not by retaliating, it is by PUTTING THE PUCK IN THE NET!!

They weren't going to fight, the raiders knew that but kept slashing, hacking,punching cross checking etc, so you wanna play goons, they played let's rub it in by scoring more goals........ the unwritten rule is there, but when the raiders move corbin and hart etc up front and they start cheap shotting everyone at every whistle, i guess that could be deemed as classless by Edmonton so they returned the favor by running out the top guns.

just a few short years ago both teams tied for a playoff game for the last playoff spot...........look where they are now, and look where we are, where would you rather be??

I agree, let Edmonton play however they want...they certainly couldn't out-match us physically.

Good to see some fight in the Raiders...most players play better when they realize they aren't doing enough...savor the feeling for the road trip, boys.

And as far as 2012 versus 2009, 6 of the Oil Kings' top 9 scorers this year were from the 2006 and 2007 draft year (are 19 or 20)...2 of those were drafted in 2007 (the Oil-Kings' first draft) by the Oil-Kings themselves...one of those is a defenseman. A 3rd of those 6 was acquired in the expansion draft and developed. 2 of those 3 are in the top 5 scorers on the team.

Remind me again what assets that the Raiders had from the 2006 & 2007 draft or list? Brandon Herrod?

Hmmn.

Wonder why it's taking the Raiders longer to rebuild?

I'd have rather had something in the tank in 2008.

Thanx again, Mr. Clark.

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

You've become the most annoying, egotistical, belittling and obsessive member on this board in a matter of two months.

:clown:

[lordstanley]

With a comment like that i guess your tied congrats :clap:

[Wapitikev]

With a comment like that i guess your tied congrats :clap:

401

-Wapitikev

[AAAScout]

Quoting my post from over two weeks ago? When the Raiders were coming off their best month of the season and hopes, for some, of making a playoff push were still alive?

Hindsight is 20/20 but here goes...



Agreed, we need better goaltending and some replacements on D.

Here's hoping we can get a decent, spare, 20 y-o goalie off someone next fall and that either Feiblekorn or Holowenko can develop into the number 1 for 2013/14.

Defense next fall: Ruop, Morrissey, Lange, Guenther, Waselenko

That's a decent top 5, considering their age, not to mention that without the needless penalties of departing defensemen, the discipline level just went up.

That only leaves 2 spots open to fill via trade or calling up Tyler Dea, Taylor Fisher, Eric Pfeifer or Kaiden Tobin.

You're right, absolutely horrible. :omG:



Newsflash the team, overall, is not good this year...I already said, over a month ago and again in the post you quoted, that this year was, in the progression of the complete rebuild, the year most likely to suck.

And blah blah blah is the best argument you can muster to refute my suggestion that the players 18 and under in the system, now, are better than they were in 2008 when Clark left?

The best players on the team (except Myalan) are 18 and under...how many of them will we lose next year? None, unless they play their way off it.

The least talented players on the team are 19 and 20. How many of them will we not have to see next fall? Most, unless they get much better really soon.

Keeping the most talented and losing the less talented is, in most people's world, a good way to improve your team next year.



Thank you for that extensive review of all 1100 players on all 22 teams. :confused:

I must concede the argument. Just like Brian Burke and Ron Wilson (who everyone wanted fired at this point last year) the Raiders have no chance of being better next year and everyone should be fired. :rolleyes:

Or we could wait 1 more year and find out what the end of the complete rebuild brings.

I'll mark you and Raider Believer down as a no, on that.

-Wapitikev


haha, yes it is safe to mark me down as a no. do you watch any hockey other than the raiders? perhaps you could have seen Fisher and Pfeifer play this year, at that you would certainly realize neither is even close to ready to stepping up to a WHL caliber next year. Pfeifer struggles at Midget aaa level and Fisher was in Prince Albert this year playing in a Midget AA tourney, that doesn't seem to me to be ready for the "DUB" next year. I don't care about the 1100 players on 22 rosters, i was not commenting on that. what i said was The prince Albert Raiders current list is the WEAKEST of all WHL teams.

Just as a side note since the current staff is so great why then since 2006 has no "player" drafted after the 2nd round other than Sawyer Lange and Herrod made the Raiders? and oh by the way this group had nothing to do with Herrod :p so that means 1 player drafted after the 2nd round by the current team of management has actually made the raiders:groovy:??

[Wapitikev]

haha, yes it is safe to mark me down as a no. do you watch any hockey other than the raiders? perhaps you could have seen Fisher and Pfeifer play this year, at that you would certainly realize neither is even close to ready to stepping up to a WHL caliber next year. Pfeifer struggles at Midget aaa level and Fisher was in Prince Albert this year playing in a Midget AA tourney, that doesn't seem to me to be ready for the "DUB" next year. I don't care about the 1100 players on 22 rosters, i was not commenting on that. what i said was The prince Albert Raiders current list is the WEAKEST of all WHL teams.

Uhhh...wouldn't that have to mean that you know how strong "all WHL teams" lists are? ALL the other teams list is = 50 players x 22 WHL teams is 1100 players.

I'm not a AAAScout so I don't get to watch as many non-WHL games as I'd like.

We only need 2 defensemen...Fisher is only 17 next year and Pfeifer is turning 18...if those particular two are not ready then so be it, there are others to turn to and there is also the trade-route.


Just as a side note since the current staff is so great why then since 2006 has no "player" drafted after the 2nd round other than Sawyer Lange and Herrod made the Raiders? and oh by the way this group had nothing to do with Herrod :p so that means 1 player drafted after the 2nd round by the current team of management has actually made the raiders:groovy:??

Eric Williams, 6th pick, 2008...you must have forgotten him.

...but let's look deeper...

The problem with "blanket" statements is that they fail to take into account that there is more than one single person responsible for what you perceive to be an overall failure...just as there is more than one person responsible for any successes.

The GM responsible (and failing) for drafting quality players in 2006 and 2007 has been fired.

The Head Scout responsible (and failing) for drafting quality players prior to 2006 and all the way through and including 2009 was already fired.

It is generally accepted the the best picks in 2008 and 2009 were scouted and chosen by the GM himself, not the Head Scout...hence the firing.

He was replaced by the "current" Head scout who drafted first in 2010.

So he is responsible for kids that would be 16 and 15 years-old, this year.

We are already playing 2 of the 16 year-olds from the 2010 draft. To Quote Terry Simpson: "The WHL isn't a glorified midget league" ...not many WHL teams dress more than 2 16 year-olds for 40 games. So, the earliest that the other kids from 2010 can show their stuff is the beginning of next year...if they are any good.

2011 draftees are too young to play this year (until their teams are finished the season and playoffs).

So, should we fire the current Head Scout even though the vast majority of his players are too young to play?

If not then why fire the current GM? He IS responsible for the best players in 2008 and 2009. Plus it is too early to tell if players from 2010 or 2011 will pan out.

So, you are on the Board of Directors...who would you fire?

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

...and I'm sorry to hear that Fisher, at 6' 1" and 225 lbs, isn't ready to play for us next year...he'd fill a much needed size-hole.

Ah well...toolbox versus talent to use it, I guess.

-Wapitikev

[Dwight Schrute]

I agree, let Edmonton play however they want...they certainly couldn't out-match us physically.

Good to see some fight in the Raiders...most players play better when they realize they aren't doing enough...savor the feeling for the road trip, boys.

And as far as 2012 versus 2009, 6 of the Oil Kings' top 9 scorers this year were from the 2006 and 2007 draft year (are 19 or 20)...2 of those were drafted in 2007 (the Oil-Kings' first draft) by the Oil-Kings themselves...one of those is a defenseman. A 3rd of those 6 was acquired in the expansion draft and developed. 2 of those 3 are in the top 5 scorers on the team.

Remind me again what assets that the Raiders had from the 2006 & 2007 draft or list? Brandon Herrod?

Hmmn.

Wonder why it's taking the Raiders longer to rebuild?

I'd have rather had something in the tank in 2008.

Thanx again, Mr. Clark.

-Wapitikev
what assets prior to 2008-2009 hmmmm
well matt robertson was dumped for nothing how about tendler, both aschims, andy smith, dotan, depape, button hrynyk, mckenzie, all squandered assets with no return of value. as far as the reasons why they left, well that is another discussion.

admit it in 5 seasons now in pa there hasnt been results. spin it and blame who ever but cut the crap, every year has failed. and a fail is a fail. wanna celebrate the few small positives ? ok but is it cause your blinded by all the failure in pa ??

[chalk_one_up]

what assets prior to 2008-2009 hmmmm
well matt robertson was dumped for nothing how about tendler, both aschims, andy smith, dotan, depape, button hrynyk, mckenzie, all squandered assets with no return of value. as far as the reasons why they left, well that is another discussion.

admit it in 5 seasons now in pa there hasnt been results. spin it and blame who ever but cut the crap, every year has failed. and a fail is a fail. wanna celebrate the few small positives ? ok but is it cause your blinded by all the failure in pa ??

Cue Wapitikev and his essay of a response :rolleyes:

[mjw22]

Cue Wapitikev and his essay of a response :rolleyes:

Ya can't see where this improvement is 1 play off appearance in 4/5 years under Bruno . Never more then 70 pts . Wapitikev must just be happy to have a team to watch . :confused:

[AAAScout]

Uhhh...wouldn't that have to mean that you know how strong "all WHL teams" lists are? ALL the other teams list is = 50 players x 22 WHL teams is 1100 players.

I'm not a AAAScout so I don't get to watch as many non-WHL games as I'd like.

We only need 2 defensemen...Fisher is only 17 next year and Pfeifer is turning 18...if those particular two are not ready then so be it, there are others to turn to and there is also the trade-route.



Eric Williams, 6th pick, 2008...you must have forgotten him.

...but let's look deeper...

The problem with "blanket" statements is that they fail to take into account that there is more than one single person responsible for what you perceive to be an overall failure...just as there is more than one person responsible for any successes.

The GM responsible (and failing) for drafting quality players in 2006 and 2007 has been fired.

The Head Scout responsible (and failing) for drafting quality players prior to 2006 and all the way through and including 2009 was already fired.

It is generally accepted the the best picks in 2008 and 2009 were scouted and chosen by the GM himself, not the Head Scout...hence the firing.

He was replaced by the "current" Head scout who drafted first in 2010.

So he is responsible for kids that would be 16 and 15 years-old, this year.

We are already playing 2 of the 16 year-olds from the 2010 draft. To Quote Terry Simpson: "The WHL isn't a glorified midget league" ...not many WHL teams dress more than 2 16 year-olds for 40 games. So, the earliest that the other kids from 2010 can show their stuff is the beginning of next year...if they are any good.

2011 draftees are too young to play this year (until their teams are finished the season and playoffs).

So, should we fire the current Head Scout even though the vast majority of his players are too young to play?

If not then why fire the current GM? He IS responsible for the best players in 2008 and 2009. Plus it is too early to tell if players from 2010 or 2011 will pan out.

So, you are on the Board of Directors...who would you fire?

-Wapitikev

nope didn't forget Williams at all.......I clearly said "players" not goalies, tough to say anything about goalies as they generally aren't drafted very early for the most part. And seriously if that is all you have to grab at is "i forgot Williams, who we obviously felt was not good enough, hence the trade away to play Holowenko" man that is a huge grasp to defend the organization and the lack of results.

and yes i do get to watch allot of games as I am a scout, and yes i do have access to all the lists and thus i can make that assessment of the talent, of course it is just my assessment, which is clearly not the same as those in charge now, but not everyone can always agree, and that doesn't mean I am right either, it is just my personal assessment.

the bottom line is whoever was is and will be responsible for the drafting etc etc etc in your eyes is and always will be the GM, he has those people in place, if you wish to be successful in business you must surround yourself with good people, if you don't you in the end will be the one fired, that is how it works. Therefore all of those decisions made at the end of the day are the GM's not the head scouts and he must live with those decisions, if the guy couldn't draft good in 08 why would we leave him around to do it again in 09 before he was fired? that again is the GM's responsibility, he is the BOSS! bosses get fired when there is no success!!

either way, we obviously are on 2 different sides of the street, we both think we are correct and possibly somewhere in the middle is the answer, but i won't post on this subject anymore this season, i only hope the BOD make a smart business decision for the people of Prince Albert, if that means the current group gets another year at it, then I wish them all the best and hope it works because I don;t think to many people in PA are willing to sit around and wait to watch again if it fails.

and if Fisher is only 225 I am princess Dianna!!

[lordstanley]

Wow the real deal Mark McNeil had a huge night tonight

[Wapitikev]

nope didn't forget Williams at all.......I clearly said "players" not goalies, tough to say anything about goalies as they generally aren't drafted very early for the most part. And seriously if that is all you have to grab at is "i forgot Williams, who we obviously felt was not good enough, hence the trade away to play Holowenko" man that is a huge grasp to defend the organization and the lack of results.

and yes i do get to watch allot of games as I am a scout, and yes i do have access to all the lists and thus i can make that assessment of the talent, of course it is just my assessment, which is clearly not the same as those in charge now, but not everyone can always agree, and that doesn't mean I am right either, it is just my personal assessment.

the bottom line is whoever was is and will be responsible for the drafting etc etc etc in your eyes is and always will be the GM, he has those people in place, if you wish to be successful in business you must surround yourself with good people, if you don't you in the end will be the one fired, that is how it works. Therefore all of those decisions made at the end of the day are the GM's not the head scouts and he must live with those decisions, if the guy couldn't draft good in 08 why would we leave him around to do it again in 09 before he was fired? that again is the GM's responsibility, he is the BOSS! bosses get fired when there is no success!!

either way, we obviously are on 2 different sides of the street, we both think we are correct and possibly somewhere in the middle is the answer, but i won't post on this subject anymore this season, i only hope the BOD make a smart business decision for the people of Prince Albert, if that means the current group gets another year at it, then I wish them all the best and hope it works because I don;t think to many people in PA are willing to sit around and wait to watch again if it fails.

and if Fisher is only 225 I am princess Dianna!!

No problem...I usually use "skaters" and "goalies" to cut the confusion.

And I'm not suggesting that the mid to late round drafts from 2006-2009 have been good...they weren't. So we agree. What I am saying is that Bruno is not "ultimately" responsible for 2006 and 2007 since he wasn't GM. He is for 2008 and 2009 for keeping the previous Head Scout. 2010 and 2011 is too early to call, this year.

I also agree...Bruno will have to face the "ultimate" responsibility...we just disagree on when that should be.

As for this year, if the BOD could find someone head and shoulders better, then surely they would pull the trigger. But I don't recall hearing that the line of decent applicants dying to come to PA stretched all the way out to 6th Ave, back in 2007/2008.

I would rather give the devil I know another year to prove or disprove his plan (because I think it will prove-out) than be saddled with a multi-year contract on a new guy who could be even worse than Bruno's predecessor and his scout.

It appears that you would rather role the dice.

Regarding Fisher, you could be princess Diana, for all we know. :p

...it's good to hear that Taylor continued to grow as his season progressed (225 is his listed weight at the start of the season). Makes me even more disappointed though to hear that he is not ready for the "Dub".

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Wow the real deal Mark McNeil had a huge night tonight

Sounded that way...Maylan passing to him all night (3 assists) certainly didn't hurt.

Good progress for the new lines, despite falling one goal short...as usual too many stupid penalties.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

what assets prior to 2008-2009 hmmmm
well matt robertson was dumped for nothing how about tendler, both aschims, andy smith, dotan, depape, button hrynyk, mckenzie, all squandered assets with no return of value. as far as the reasons why they left, well that is another discussion.

admit it in 5 seasons now in pa there hasnt been results. spin it and blame who ever but cut the crap, every year has failed. and a fail is a fail. wanna celebrate the few small positives ? ok but is it cause your blinded by all the failure in pa ??

This is your list of elite talent that Bruno wasted?

Just to be sure that I wasn't remembering it wrong, I went back and looked at every guy you mentioned. To call any of those guys an "asset", other than Robertson, is really abusing the definition of the term.

And even Matt Roberston was never a point per game player, not even at his best:

Matt Robertson - (Born 88...too old to play for us since 2009) One of the smallest Raiders ever. Played for the Raiders as a 18, 19 and 20 yo. Best season=18yo= 64 points in 69 games. Points per game went down every year. Traded at the trade deadline, as a 20 yo, for another 20 yo (MacAngus) who was a foot taller, 30lbs heaver, had playoff experience, and only slightly fewer points both that year and the year prior in virtually the same number of games...AS WELL AS Regina's 4th round pick in 2009 (turned out to be Sawyer Lange); that's not exactly nothing. And even after the trade, Matt didn't return to 18 yo scoring form...only 5% increase after the trade.

The reason why the rest of these guys left is they were below average hockey players. The reason why we received virtually no assets for them is because that is what they were worth to other teams, as witnessed by their stats after their trade or release.

Thanks for helping me make my "Bruno was left with little or no 15 or 16 yo talent when he took over" argument. :)

So, to use your crap cutting suggestion, I support Bruno because the waft from his (supposed) failures is less than the stench from the epic failures of his predecessor...and potentially even those of his successor...we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

This is your list of elite talent that Bruno wasted?

Just to be sure that I wasn't remembering it wrong, I went back and looked at every guy you mentioned. To call any of those guys an "asset", other than Robertson, is really abusing the definition of the term.

And even Matt Roberston was never a point per game player, not even at his best:

Matt Robertson - (Born 88...too old to play for us since 2009) One of the smallest Raiders ever. Played for the Raiders as a 18, 19 and 20 yo. Best season=18yo= 64 points in 69 games. Points per game went down every year. Traded at the trade deadline, as a 20 yo, for another 20 yo (MacAngus) who was a foot taller, 30lbs heaver, had playoff experience, and only slightly fewer points both that year and the year prior in virtually the same number of games...AS WELL AS Regina's 4th round pick in 2009 (turned out to be Sawyer Lange); that's not exactly nothing. And even after the trade, Matt didn't return to 18 yo scoring form...only 5% increase after the trade.

The reason why the rest of these guys left is they were below average hockey players. The reason why we received virtually no assets for them is because that is what they were worth to other teams, as witnessed by their stats after their trade or release.

Thanks for helping me make my "Bruno was left with little or no 15 or 16 yo talent when he took over" argument. :)

So, to use your crap cutting suggestion, I support Bruno because the waft from his (supposed) failures is less than the stench from the epic failures of his predecessor...and potentially even those of his successor...we'll have to wait and see, won't we?

-Wapitikev

Coaching ruined the talent and video killed the radio star.

[Wapitikev]

Coaching ruined the talent and video killed the radio star.

It definitely did...it was especially Bruno's fault that they did nothing after they left here.

And his coaching certainly ruined McCallum's, Parker's, Maylan's, McNeil's, Morrissey's, Herrod's, Revenko's, Ruop's, Dustin Cameron's, McDonald's, Berhardt's, Deck's etc, etc, etc's talent.

And just imagine how much better Tyler Yaworski could have been, if not for his talent being ruined by his coach!

:p

-Wapitikev

[mjw22]

It definitely did...it was especially Bruno's fault that they did nothing after they left here.

And his coaching certainly ruined McCallum's, Parker's, Maylan's, McNeil's, Morrissey's, Herrod's, Revenko's, Ruop's, Dustin Cameron's, McDonald's, Berhardt's, Deck's etc, etc, etc's talent.

And just imagine how much better Tyler Yaworski could have been, if not for his talent being ruined by his coach!

:p

-Wapitikev

I've been following this debate and wonder why with the limited results Bruno has had and the talent you do have you would risk another set back like this year. I like the coach but discipline may be an issue it was when he was here . Almost too much of a players coach.

[mjw22]

Congratulations to your Wall of Honor inductees. McAmmond was a treat to watch . Well done :)

[Wapitikev]

I've been following this debate and wonder why with the limited results Bruno has had and the talent you do have you would risk another set back like this year. I like the coach but discipline may be an issue it was when he was here . Almost too much of a players coach.

Bruno's opponents on this board are focused on their belief that he has not done enough.

However, no one on this board has been able to refute the fact that this team has averaged more points per year since he became GM than in the three years before he became GM.

Presumably the previous GM was fired for that record...this year's team would have to finish the season without any points in the last 24 games to have a record worse than that. One more point would tie it.

While a slightly better record than the last guy doesn't mean the team will be worse without Bruno, it doesn't mean it will improve, either...

With the team's young talent poised to take the reins next year as 19, 18 and 17 y-olds and with Vanstone and Gardiner penciled in as 16 y-olds, I'm looking forward to seeing what the young guns can do with a team that will truly be theirs, win or lose.

I say let the guy responsible for that talent either A) enjoy the results of his work when the plan comes together, or B) be held accountable because the team he built from nothing, with the coach he chose, turns out to be only average, or worse.

Which way that goes does not get determined until the trade deadline next winter.

That's why I'm not demanding anyone's job right now.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

K Wapitikev..... For those of us who frequent here ur getting old real fast. I am not going to go into detail of who should stay , who should go but I want you to call a spade a spade. Do you in any way , shape or form work for the Raiders ? which would include being contracted out to do any type of media work for the Raiders ?

[AAAScout]

Bruno's opponents on this board are focused on their belief that he has not done enough.

However, no one on this board has been able to refute the fact that this team has averaged more points per year since he became GM than in the three years before he became GM.

Presumably the previous GM was fired for that record...this year's team would have to finish the season without any points in the last 24 games to have a record worse than that. One more point would tie it.

While a slightly better record than the last guy doesn't mean the team will be worse without Bruno, it doesn't mean it will improve, either...

With the team's young talent poised to take the reins next year as 19, 18 and 17 y-olds and with Vanstone and Gardiner penciled in as 16 y-olds, I'm looking forward to seeing what the young guns can do with a team that will truly be theirs, win or lose.

I say let the guy responsible for that talent either A) enjoy the results of his work when the plan comes together, or B) be held accountable because the team he built from nothing, with the coach he chose, turns out to be only average, or worse.

Which way that goes does not get determined until the trade deadline next winter.

That's why I'm not demanding anyone's job right now.

-Wapitikev


I think what most are trying to say Wapitikev is that, yes we can't argue he has done better than his predecessor, but so could have my daughter!! the fact remains, we pretty much never make the playoffs, so what does better mean if it is still 9th place? nothing, this city has supported this for far to long to not be rewarded with something better, settling for second best all the time has gotten very very old, now whether or not Bruno is better than the last guy(who i refused to renew my season tickets unless they got rid of) is irrelevant in some eyes, it still is not even close to good enough, sorry i said i wouldn't post again on this topic, and I did haha.

[Dwight Schrute]

nobody claimed donn clark was great. i think we all want an improvement over him. has bruno been ? i dont think so. nothing wrong with wanting better. ps in the last 4 full seasons as gm before bruno took his job, clarks teams were in the playoffs 3 out of 4 years or 75 % how about bruno ? oh they played 28 games in 5 series. how about bruno ? im not pining for a return of clark or anholt. but yeah pining for a return to the playoffs.

if you wanna complain about drafting though factor in the rule changes of 05/06. some players were able to adapt and others werent (eg palazzo couldnt but gauthier could)

[Wapitikev]

K Wapitikev..... For those of us who frequent here ur getting old real fast. I am not going to go into detail of who should stay , who should go but I want you to call a spade a spade. Do you in any way , shape or form work for the Raiders ? which would include being contracted out to do any type of media work for the Raiders ?

As I've said in the past but apparently need to repeat, I am not a staff member nor a BOD member.

In addition, I am not a media contractor, nor a public relations contractor.

But, I am a season ticket holder and I am a Raider fan.

I am sorry that you find my support of the current hockey ops team annoying.

But you do realize that your constant moaning about them is just as annoying, right.

So, since your thesis is that I must work for Bruno because I say it's not time to fire him, then, by extension, that means that he must have fired you at some point, right? When was that?

Or are you a relative of someone that he cut/traded? Who was it, if you don't mind me asking?

Or, maybe our connections to the Raiders, or lack of them, have no bearing or relevence to how we feel about the Raiders, at all?

Nahhh...that's just crazy talk.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I think what most are trying to say Wapitikev is that, yes we can't argue he has done better than his predecessor, but so could have my daughter!! the fact remains, we pretty much never make the playoffs, so what does better mean if it is still 9th place? nothing, this city has supported this for far to long to not be rewarded with something better, settling for second best all the time has gotten very very old, now whether or not Bruno is better than the last guy(who i refused to renew my season tickets unless they got rid of) is irrelevant in some eyes, it still is not even close to good enough, sorry i said i wouldn't post again on this topic, and I did haha.

It's ok to talk about something that you care about. No need to apologize.

It is good that you set the bar high for your team.

I'm arguing patience for another year, you are tired of waiting. Unfortunately that means that we disagree and post to that effect.

But it's not like I think you're evil. I actually like a good percentage of the information you provide to the board.

And you're not hopelessly negative, unlike some.

But yes, your daughter probably could have done better than the previous GM. :)

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

As I've said in the past but apparently need to repeat, I am not a staff member nor a BOD member.

In addition, I am not a media contractor, nor a public relations contractor.

But, I am a season ticket holder and I am a Raider fan.

I am sorry that you find my support of the current hockey ops team annoying.

But you do realize that your constant moaning about them is just as annoying, right.

So, since your thesis is that I must work for Bruno because I say it's not time to fire him, then, by extension, that means that he must have fired you at some point, right? When was that?

Or are you a relative of someone that he cut/traded? Who was it, if you don't mind me asking?

Or, maybe our connections to the Raiders, or lack of them, have no bearing or relevence to how we feel about the Raiders, at all?

Nahhh...that's just crazy talk.

-Wapitikev


Wapitikev, Prince Albert is a small, small city. Many of us are doubly blessed. We are fans and we are also connected to the team in more personal ways. i.e. billet parents, former billet parents, employees, former players, players, parents of players, former parents of players, scouts, former scouts, medical staff, trainers, ticket and arena staff etc.... I'm sure you get the picture. I'm not going to pretend I don't know Bruno. I do. I've met him and many of the current and past members of the team. At different times I've liked Bruno and at other times not so much. I respected him at one time as a hockey man, and in recent times have found giving that respect challenging. The bottom line in hockey has always been scores, records and gate. Playoffs are hugely important (obviously) and provide the team with much needed revenues, not to mention fan support and general team morale, last year - albeit our run was short - is a good example of this. No one posting anonymously on this board is going to have any input into the firing or retention of Bruno and the coaching staff. Sure, some of us may actually be friends with or have a nodding acquaintanceship with some BOD members, but I would suggest that they, the BOD members, will keep their observations fairly quiet and professional until a decision has to be made. We can speculate and advocate for and against Bruno and write chapters and essays about his merits or lack thereof. I don't think he or the players give a tinker's damn about what we think. And I'm sure the BOD doesn't. Unfortunately, the real problem is the BOD. For the record, I think the BOD will fire Bruno. And you will be surprised to know that I think this would be a mistake. After due consideration, I have come to the conclusion that he should be given one more year to prove whether his vision and plan makes sense. However, if by Christmas break 2012, the team is not in the upper half of the standings and having a breakout season .... I'd fire his ass!

And yes, I don't believe you are Bruno or his brother or his puppet play by play announcer. You are way too informed and bright to be one of them. ;)

[chalk_one_up]

AAAScout's daughter for GM!!!!!!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::cla p::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: :clap::clap:

[Wapitikev]

nobody claimed donn clark was great. i think we all want an improvement over him. has bruno been ? i dont think so. nothing wrong with wanting better. ps in the last 4 full seasons as gm before bruno took his job, clarks teams were in the playoffs 3 out of 4 years or 75 % how about bruno ? oh they played 28 games in 5 series. how about bruno ? im not pining for a return of clark or anholt. but yeah pining for a return to the playoffs.

if you wanna complain about drafting though factor in the rule changes of 05/06. some players were able to adapt and others werent (eg palazzo couldnt but gauthier could)

In 7 years as GM, Mr. Clark made the playoffs three times. That's 42.9%

Despite making the playoffs only once in 4 years, at least Bruno qualified for the playoffs in 2009 by tying Edmonton.

For me that's 50%...for you it is 25%.

Pine for the playoffs all you want. Your win-or-fire timetable is just shorter than mine by a year.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

In 7 years as GM, Mr. Clark made the playoffs three times. That's 42.9%

Despite making the playoffs only once in 4 years, at least Bruno qualified for the playoffs in 2009 by tying Edmonton.

For me that's 50%...for you it is 25%.

Pine for the playoffs all you want. Your win-or-fire timetable is just shorter than mine by a year.

-Wapitikev

Tying Edmonton in the standings did not qualify the team for the playoffs. Nor were they in the playoffs that year. They lost in the tie breaker. That does not magically equate to making the playoffs. Let's keep it real! Teams often lose out by the slimmest of margins ... but it is still losing, and it doesn't morph into a win by wishing it so. This type of blind and manipulative twisting of the facts is what makes so many think you must be Bruno. And if I'm wrong and you are Bruno ... well dude, you are even crazier than I thought.

[Wapitikev]

Wapitikev, Prince Albert is a small, small city. Many of us are doubly blessed. We are fans and we are also connected to the team in more personal ways. i.e. billet parents, former billet parents, employees, former players, players, parents of players, former parents of players, scouts, former scouts, medical staff, trainers, ticket and arena staff etc.... I'm sure you get the picture. I'm not going to pretend I don't know Bruno. I do. I've met him and many of the current and past members of the team. At different times I've liked Bruno and at other times not so much. I respected him at one time as a hockey man, and in recent times have found giving that respect challenging. The bottom line in hockey has always been scores, records and gate. Playoffs are hugely important (obviously) and provide the team with much needed revenues, not to mention fan support and general team morale, last year - albeit our run was short - is a good example of this. No one posting anonymously on this board is going to have any input into the firing or retention of Bruno and the coaching staff. Sure, some of us may actually be friends with or have a nodding acquaintanceship with some BOD members, but I would suggest that they, the BOD members, will keep their observations fairly quiet and professional until a decision has to be made. We can speculate and advocate for and against Bruno and write chapters and essays about his merits or lack thereof. I don't think he or the players give a tinker's damn about what we think. And I'm sure the BOD doesn't. Unfortunately, the real problem is the BOD. For the record, I think the BOD will fire Bruno. And you will be surprised to know that I think this would be a mistake. After due consideration, I have come to the conclusion that he should be given one more year to prove whether his vision and plan makes sense. However, if by Christmas break 2012, the team is not in the upper half of the standings and having a breakout season .... I'd fire his ass!

And yes, I don't believe you are Bruno or his brother or his puppet play by play announcer. You are way too informed and bright to be one of them. ;)

Fair enough.

Since Conference Ranking began for playoffs in 2008, the points needed to make the playoff have swung up and down every year. This year's an up-year; it will likely take 90-93 points to take 4th place. Next year's a down-year; it will likely take around 84-86 points to take 4th.

I had already predicted 80-some points next year. I'm willing to stretch that to 85.

That would be the third highest finish in 15 years.

Sound fair?

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

AAAScout's daughter for GM!!!!!!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::cla p::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: :clap:

:D

-Wapitikev

[XCHEKR]

K Wapitikev..... For those of us who frequent here ur getting old real fast. I am not going to go into detail of who should stay , who should go but I want you to call a spade a spade. Do you in any way , shape or form work for the Raiders ? which would include being contracted out to do any type of media work for the Raiders ?

I really have to respond to this remark!!!! Do you seriously think because of anything posted that could be remotely positive about this team, staff or BOD > that in any way is an indication that whomever is posting in such a way is tied into the coach or staff or goodness knows who??? Get bloody well real!!! I am getting so sick of these kind of remarks! I for one have nothing to do with any of them except forthe fact, I am a Raider fan and Raider ticket holder and I am sure there are more out there besides me! GROW UP ALREADY!!!:burningmad:

[Wapitikev]

Tying Edmonton in the standings did not qualify the team for the playoffs. Nor were they in the playoffs that year. They lost in the tie breaker. That does not magically equate to making the playoffs. Let's keep it real! Teams often lose out by the slimmest of margins ... but it is still losing, and it doesn't morph into a win by wishing it so. This type of blind and manipulative twisting of the facts is what makes so many think you must be Bruno. And if I'm wrong and you are Bruno ... well dude, you are even crazier than I thought.

Unlike some who post here I'm not giving half the story to fool people into taking my side. I told the whole story.

I stated that Bruno only made the playoffs 1 time in 4 years (as GM...which is what we were discussing)

I also stated that the Raiders got the same points as the Oil Kings in 2009. This fact is viewable on the WHL web-site for the final standings in the 2009 regular season (http://www.whl.ca/standings/show/ls_season/231/subtype/1)...neither team is seeded and both have the same points. In fact, PA is listed first, before Edmonton due to the Raiders having more wins that year.

I never said we played playoff hockey in 2009...what I said was that tying for 8th was good enough for me, but not for others.

And, on a completely separate note, you are today's king of back-handed compliments. :)

-Wapitikev

[XCHEKR]

nobody claimed donn clark was great. i think we all want an improvement over him. has bruno been ? i dont think so. nothing wrong with wanting better. ps in the last 4 full seasons as gm before bruno took his job, clarks teams were in the playoffs 3 out of 4 years or 75 % how about bruno ? oh they played 28 games in 5 series. how about bruno ? im not pining for a return of clark or anholt. but yeah pining for a return to the playoffs.

if you wanna complain about drafting though factor in the rule changes of 05/06. some players were able to adapt and others werent (eg palazzo couldnt but gauthier could)

Please lets not even get started on palazzo and gauthier:rolleyes: WORK ETHIC for one????:confused:

[Raider Believer]

Fair enough.

Since Conference Ranking began for playoffs in 2008, the points needed to make the playoff have swung up and down every year. This year's an up-year; it will likely take 90-93 points to take 4th place. Next year's a down-year; it will likely take around 84-86 points to take 4th.

I had already predicted 80-some points next year. I'm willing to stretch that to 85.

That would be the third highest finish in 15 years.

Sound fair?

-Wapitikev


Very fair! and OMG ... we are actually agreeing on something. Quick - Check to make sure hell hasn't frozen over! :D

[Wapitikev]

Very fair! and OMG ... we are actually agreeing on something. Quick - Check to make sure hell hasn't frozen over! :D

:eek:

They are getting the "coldest winter in decades" that we were supposed to get.

Heh.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

19 more wins to go, Lord Stanley.

Personally I would settle for 16, but with 23 games left, even .700 hockey the rest of the way will be a herculean task.

All the games are must-win from now on but tonight's vs Lethbridge is doubly so.

-Wapitikev

[mjw22]

19 more wins to go, Lord Stanley.

Personally I would settle for 16, but with 23 games left, even .700 hockey the rest of the way will be a herculean task.

All the games are must-win from now on but tonight's vs Lethbridge is doubly so.

-Wapitikev

lol you're full of hope 6-9 more realistic. I don't know if PA gets to 60 pt mark.
I don't get why you want Bruno back previous 3 seasons 67 69 67 this year you won't even reach that. The bar hasn't been set to high IMO board should clean house. I'm sure there are some young up and coming guys in the WHL OR CHL who would take a chance on turning this around. Some new young blood to go with the crop of young players may be a better way to go. I think you're :deadhorse: hoping Brunos going to do this. good luck

[Wapitikev]

Thanx for the well-wishes.

Moose Jaw has been playing great hockey its last 10 games (.750).

Satuday's game should be a good one. Looks like it'll be your top 6 scorers (only one of them under 19) against our top 6 (only two of whom are over 18).

Why should the guy responsible for growing the crop of young players get canned? Because his predecessor left him with no decent talent in the pipeline to either trade or play this year?

15 more wins to go to get to last years points!

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Thanx for the well-wishes.

Moose Jaw has been playing great hockey its last 10 games (.750).

Satuday's game should be a good one. Looks like it'll be your top 6 scorers (only one of them under 19) against our top 6 (only two of whom are over 18).

Why should the guy responsible for growing the crop of young players get canned? Because his predecessor left him with no decent talent in the pipeline to either trade or play this year?

15 more wins to go to get to last years points!

-Wapitikev
how old is Hart, Yaworski and Corbin ? 3 19 year olds on the backend means its a older then average defence core. In fact until we started playing with only 1 20 year old the Raiders were icing one of the oldest rosters in the league . I am really enjoying getting to see the 3 17 year olds getting to play top 6 time though !

[Wapitikev]

how old is Hart, Yaworski and Corbin ? 3 19 year olds on the backend means its a older then average defence core. In fact until we started playing with only 1 20 year old the Raiders were icing one of the oldest rosters in the league . I am really enjoying getting to see the 3 17 year olds getting to play top 6 time though !

The point is not that our roster is old or young.

The point is that, unlike organizations that drafted well in 2006 and 2007, our oldest players are not our best players.

We're all enjoying seeing the young-guns light it up this year...I'm looking forward to our scoring potential next year, despite losing Maylan.

btw, Winther just turned 18 a couple of weeks ago.

Another interesting stat: Perreaux wasn't even 17 until the 28th of December...here I was considering him a 17 yo out of camp because I only looked at his birth-year, not the month.

So we were actually playing 3 16 year-olds (for a couple of weeks) once we brought Mahura up.

Perreaux, who missed 12 games from the 11th of Dec to the 25th of Jan, is (apparently) playing much better since returning from injury at the start of the road-trip; getting his first goal on Friday.

Hope he comes on strong down the stretch.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Bruno is a horrible coach and GM now with that said

Mark McNeil has been named WHL player of the week congrats to him

[Wapitikev]

Than you for that breaking news...or is it broken record.

Heh.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Thought i would flatten the tires then pump them back up for you :)

[XCHEKR]

Than you for that breaking news...or is it broken record.

Heh.

-Wapitikev

Its a broken record .... some people have nothing better to do with their lives than jump from one fan forum to another speaking their mind for whatever it is worth:rolleyes: Nice to see the team pull off a couple more wins! Now to repeat it back home now!

[Wapitikev]

Thought i would flatten the tires then pump them back up for you :)

:rolleyes:

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Its a broken record .... some people have nothing better to do with their lives than jump from one fan forum to another speaking their mind for whatever it is worth:rolleyes: Nice to see the team pull off a couple more wins! Now to repeat it back home now!

403

-Wapitikev

[Dwight Schrute]

In 7 years as GM, Mr. Clark made the playoffs three times. That's 42.9%

Despite making the playoffs only once in 4 years, at least Bruno qualified for the playoffs in 2009 by tying Edmonton.

For me that's 50%...for you it is 25%.

Pine for the playoffs all you want. Your win-or-fire timetable is just shorter than mine by a year.

-Wapitikev
i compared bruno's past 4 years to clarks last 4 years. fair comparison. not half the story

[Wapitikev]

i compared bruno's past 4 years to clarks last 4 years. fair comparison. not half the story

No, you didn't. You compared his BEST 4 years to the Bruno's past 4 years.

How can you conveniently leave out the year for which Clark was fired? Newsflash: after the trade deadline, a GM's job is pretty much done for that year.

Are you seriously asking people to believe that leaving that out is NOT telling only part of the story?

Your credibility is even worse than you claim mine is.

-Wapitikev

[Dwight Schrute]

No, you didn't. You compared his BEST 4 years to the Bruno's past 4 years.

How can you conveniently leave out the year for which Clark was fired? Newsflash: after the trade deadline, a GM's job is pretty much done for that year.

Are you seriously asking people to believe that leaving that out is NOT telling only part of the story?

Your credibility is even worse than you claim mine is.

-Wapitikev
lol dude i said last 4 year full years of each. so what if they were his best ? if you dont remember the decision to can clark was made over a month before the deadline he just stuck around to help out bruno transition.

geez its like i told you santa isnt real. let it go and stop twisting stuff around.

[Wapitikev]

lol dude i said last 4 year full years of each. so what if they were his best ? if you dont remember the decision to can clark was made over a month before the deadline he just stuck around to help out bruno transition.

geez its like i told you santa isnt real. let it go and stop twisting stuff around.

You'd have us believe that Clark's playoff percentage is 75% and I'M the one twisting things around?

And Clark was fired a month before the trade deadline but the BOD let him stay until after the trade deadline?

Funny you should bring up Santa...you can't seem to get any realer than he is.

What color is the sky in your world, if you don't mind me asking?

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

lol @ Wapitikev always having to have the last word all the time and always defending his case in essay form.

Soon enough, there won't be anyone posting in the Raider section cause they won't be able to tolerate Wapitikev and they'll always have their posts broken down to death with "in your face" wrong doings.

Edit: $20 says Wapitikev is writing an essay in response to my post. It will include the following:

Saying I'm wrong
Saying Everyone is wrong
Bruno has done amazing things
No talent to work with
Comparing Bruno's 4 years to Clark's 4 years
Essay's are fun fun fun fun

[Wapitikev]

lol @ Wapitikev always having to have the last word all the time and always defending his case in essay form.

Soon enough, there won't be anyone posting in the Raider section cause they won't be able to tolerate Wapitikev and they'll always have their posts broken down to death with "in your face" wrong doings.

Edit: $20 says Wapitikev is writing an essay in response to my post. It will include the following:

Saying I'm wrong
Saying Everyone is wrong
Bruno has done amazing things
No talent to work with
Comparing Bruno's 4 years to Clark's 4 years
Essay's are fun fun fun fun

That's funny...:)

I only disagree with some of the things people say...not all.

If 4 sentences qualifies as an essay, then you must have had some really slack teachers in highschool. :D

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

That's funny...:)

I only disagree with some of the things people say...not all.

If 4 sentences qualifies as an essay, then you must have had some really slack teachers in highschool. :D

-Wapitikev

Well ... so the site is back up and running.
Wapitikev, things aren't looking so good in Raider land. I think the team has given up on the coach and management. I was prepared to give Bruno and his team another year .... but in view of the totally pathetic effort and lack of development I gotta say .... GIVE THEM THE BOOT before draft day.

[Sttop]

I think everyone that lives in P.A has heard that Bruno will be around for another year. I would be suprised to see the same coaching staff at training camp though.

[Dwight Schrute]

I think everyone that lives in P.A has heard that Bruno will be around for another year. I would be suprised to see the same coaching staff at training camp though.

would bringing back young be the right choice ? would retaining bruno be the right move ?. deja vu ?

[Raider Believer]

Holowenko seems to have Red Deer's number. Definitely kept the Raiders in the game in the first period until the guys in front of him started to play. A good effort from all and very solid goaltending.

[AAAScout]

Holowenko seems to have Red Deer's number. Definitely kept the Raiders in the game in the first period until the guys in front of him started to play. A good effort from all and very solid goaltending.

Yep, and that is okay, but not to many more of those I hope!! I know this sounds bad, but we need losses not wins. now that the Raiders are eliminated from the post season it is time to do everything possible to make sure we get in that bottom 3 to hopefully get the 1st pick overall.

[Sttop]

Suprise of the night for me is out of all the Raiders Mackenzie decides he is going to fight Hlinka ??? and then gets beat to boot ?

[Raider Believer]

Suprise of the night for me is out of all the Raiders Mackenzie decides he is going to fight Hlinka ??? and then gets beat to boot ?

Hlinka doesn't fight often but he can throw them pretty good. Just after Christmas he fought Kyle Haas (a top 10 fighter) and held his own. He has a neat little trick of pulling sweaters over the heads of the opposition that works really well. :p Apart from looking bad against Hlinka, MacKenzie might have been his teams most dangerous forward in the first period. Holowenko stopped him cold on the door step at least twice.

Good effort tonight against Kootenay!