Fiddler

[AAAScout]

So talk about a player who needed a change of scenery, I have said all along he has great hands....work ethic etc may not have been great or his skating, but he has good hands.

Since the trade Spokane is 5-2-0-1 for 11pts and 1 loss was to Tri-City (who don't they beat?)

he has played 8 games has 4 goals 5 assists for 9pts and is a +7 with 4pims...had only 4 goals with raiders all year and was a minus 6........must be good food in Spokane :)

[patsdude114]

chalk up another goal for Fiddler tonite as well, this trade is definately being won by the Cheifs now & for the future

[Wapitikev]

chalk up another goal for Fiddler tonite as well, this trade is definately being won by the Cheifs now & for the future

Wonder which team he'll be traded to next season before he wakes up. The future is not certain with this guy...he has more growing up to do.

Good to see him realize (like last year after he was traded to us from the Hat) that he can actually play if he tries.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

Wonder which team he'll be traded to next season before he wakes up. The future is not certain with this guy...he has more growing up to do.

Good to see him realize (like last year after he was traded to us from the Hat) that he can actually play if he tries.

-Wapitikev

To Bruno's credit, he recognized something in this player back in 2010. Not all players respond to situations the same, and some coaches just click with certain players. It is not always the player's immaturity. It would be nice if you could wish a player good luck when they move along instead of casting a cloud over them like you've done with Fiddler and Parker a couple of weeks back. You sure do take things personally for 'just' a fan. How would you know who has "more growing up to do" ?

[Wapitikev]

To Bruno's credit, he recognized something in this player back in 2010. Not all players respond to situations the same, and some coaches just click with certain players. It is not always the player's immaturity. It would be nice if you could wish a player good luck when they move along instead of casting a cloud over them like you've done with Fiddler and Parker a couple of weeks back. You sure do take things personally for 'just' a fan. How would you know who has "more growing up to do" ?

So "you" are complaining that I'm not positive enough?

Does your negativity disqualify "you" as a fan of the team?

It is generally accepted that the more emotionally invested a person is in their team, the BIGGER the fan they are.

Regarding Fiddler, I'm glad the Raider organization gave him the chance to go to a team where he can succeed if he applies himself; which he did last year but did not do this year. His future is in his hands (for the third time in two years)...so far he appears to have gotten the hint. If he makes the decision to apply himself more than one season in a row he will be an excellent player.

Needing a "third chance" before learning from one's mistakes would be called "growing up" by most people I know.

As far a Parker goes, I couldn't be more disappointed and I stand by my comment: he has made himself a one-year wonder. The numbers speak for themselves.

The Raiders acquired an average player (less than 1 point per 2 games that year) and, instead of giving up on him, gave him excellent linemates, ample playing time and solid guidance. Under those conditions, he proved that he has the talent to succeed in only one season, going from less than 1 point every 2 games to more than 1 point in every game.

All the while playing for a hockey-ops group that YOU claim cannot develop players.

However, instead of remaining for his last year with the Raiders, developing even further, and becoming even more dominant, he decides to follow his dream...to become a 4th-liner in the A?

Obviously talent does not mean wisdom.

Mr. Parker has played 27 out of 38 games, has a total of 5 points, and is -9 on a team where less than 1/3 of the players are minus. That puts him 20th out of 32 in team-scoring and 31st in +/-.

Please don''t suggest that a Raider fan should be happy about that, either for him or for the Raiders.

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

So "you" are complaining that I'm not positive enough?

Does your negativity disqualify "you" as a fan of the team?

It is generally accepted that the more emotionally invested a person is in their team, the BIGGER the fan they are.

Regarding Fiddler, I'm glad the Raider organization gave him the chance to go to a team where he can succeed if he applies himself; which he did last year but did not do this year. His future is in his hands (for the third time in two years)...so far he appears to have gotten the hint. If he makes the decision to apply himself more than one season in a row he will be an excellent player.

Needing a "third chance" before learning from one's mistakes would be called "growing up" by most people I know.

As far a Parker goes, I couldn't be more disappointed and I stand by my comment: he has made himself a one-year wonder. The numbers speak for themselves.

The Raiders acquired an average player (less than 1 point per 2 games that year) and, instead of giving up on him, gave him excellent linemates, ample playing time and solid guidance. Under those conditions, he proved that he has the talent to succeed in only one season, going from less than 1 point every 2 games to more than 1 point in every game.

All the while playing for a hockey-ops group that YOU claim cannot develop players.

However, instead of remaining for his last year with the Raiders, developing even further, and becoming even more dominant, he decides to follow his dream...to become a 4th-liner in the A?

Obviously talent does not mean wisdom.

Mr. Parker has played 27 out of 38 games, has a total of 5 points, and is -9 on a team where less than 1/3 of the players are minus. That puts him 20th out of 32 in team-scoring and 31st in +/-.

Please don''t suggest that a Raider fan should be happy about that, either for him or for the Raiders.

-Wapitikev

You are sour grapes a bit here on the last part. Here you are blaming and trashing a guy who went pro as opposed to returning to the WHL. Honestly, I highly doubt it was his call anyways and two, ask anyone of the same age whether they would return to junior or go and make some money playing a higher level of hockey and I'm sure they would most likely take the same route. You make it sound as if he purposely did it to spite the Raiders. Get over yourself. By your butthurt comments, you may be the one that needs some growing up.

[Wapitikev]

You are sour grapes a bit here on the last part. Here you are blaming and trashing a guy who went pro as opposed to returning to the WHL. Honestly, I highly doubt it was his call anyways and two, ask anyone of the same age whether they would return to junior or go and make some money playing a higher level of hockey and I'm sure they would most likely take the same route. You make it sound as if he purposely did it to spite the Raiders. Get over yourself. By your butthurt comments, you may be the one that needs some growing up.

Some would say that Mr. Parker needs to get over himself.

All I'm saying is that he made a poor decision.

He certainly did from a Raider fan's point of view...unless you're suggesting we couldn't have used another point a game player this year.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

For Mr. Parker's sake I hope he proves me so.

...but that doesn't help the Raiders or their fans.

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

Some would say that Mr. Parker needs to get over himself.

All I'm saying is that he made a poor decision.

He certainly did from a Raider fan's point of view...unless you're suggesting we couldn't have used another point a game player this year.

Time will tell if I'm right or wrong.

For Mr. Parker's sake I hope he proves me so.

...but that doesn't help the Raiders or their fans.

-Wapitikev

That's not up to you to decide, whether it was a smart one at that or not, plus, I highly doubt it was his call, cause you know, you don't just sign a deal and automatically get a jersey. You have to work for it to make the team. So your "personal" observations are most likely incorrect of him. Time to move on, it is January.

[Wapitikev]

That's not up to you to decide, whether it was a smart one at that or not, plus, I highly doubt it was his call, cause you know, you don't just sign a deal and automatically get a jersey. You have to work for it to make the team. So your "personal" observations are most likely incorrect of him. Time to move on, it is January.

As a fan I have no right to decide if his decision was good for my team? :confused:

As far as making-the-team goes, how many offers would he have had if he'd put up another 70+ point season in the W this year?

Fact: he took the first offer he got. I applaud him for jumping at his first opportunity.

As far as letting it go, I brought it up in passing, weeks ago, as an example of something unexpected that happened last summer that made the team worse going into the season.

I'm not the one that's dredging it up. I'm just defending myself. But I guess I shouldn't be allowed to do that either? :rolleyes:

Cheers.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

will be an excellent player.

Needing a "third chance" before learning from one's mistakes would be called "growing up" by most people I know.

As far a Parker goes, I couldn't be more disappointed and I stand by my comment: he has made himself a one-year wonder. The numbers speak for themselves.

-Wapitikev

Since when did 'you' allow the numbers to speak for themselves? You've made it a mission on this board to deny the numbers that Bruno has presided over for the last 4 or 5 years as coach/GM.

"Get over yourself. By your butthurt comments, you may be the one that needs some growing up."

- chalk_one_up [Quote]

On this we agree completely!

[Wapitikev]

Since when did 'you' allow the numbers to speak for themselves? You've made it a mission on this board to deny the numbers that Bruno has presided over for the last 4 or 5 years as coach/GM.

"Get over yourself. By your butthurt comments, you may be the one that needs some growing up."

- chalk_one_up

On this we agree completely!

I'm not sure what numbers your saying I'm denying, since I use numbers all the time in my posts.

You have been paying attention, right?

Bruno's record as GM is the most consistent and the highest (on average) of any GM in the last 15 years...2009-2011 is 4th, 5th and 6th time in 15 years that the team has 67 or more points in a season.

But those numbers aren't good enough for you...perhaps the one who's obsessed with Bruno being fired should be the one, out of us all, who grows up first, Raider Believer.

I've been called various names on this board when people don't like my arguments...so I guess you're right I need to grow up...because the people insulting me, to make themselves feel better, are so much more mature. :rolleyes:

Thanx for the heads-up.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Since this thread was hijacked a few posts back, I'm happy to point out that Todd is now 10 points for 10 games and is +9.

Hope he keeps going strong.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

I'm not sure what numbers your saying I'm denying, since I use numbers all the time in my posts.

You have been paying attention, right?

Bruno's record as GM is the most consistent and the highest (on average) of any GM in the last 15 years...2009-2011 is 4th, 5th and 6th time in 15 years that the team has 67 or more points in a season.

But those numbers aren't good enough for you...perhaps the one who's obsessed with Bruno being fired should be the one, out of us all, who grows up first, Raider Believer.

I've been called various names on this board when people don't like my arguments...so I guess you're right I need to grow up...because the people insulting me, to make themselves feel better, are so much more mature. :rolleyes:

Thanx for the heads-up.

-Wapitikev

I'm sure Bruno would be delighted to have you as an advocate and fervently pray that the BOD buys into those kind of magical numbers. A real reality distortion field .... unfortunately in reality, those numbers have only translated to one season and one round in the playoffs. You're right, numbers don't lie. Are you paying attention??? :rolleyes: And just for the record .. those numbers aren't good enough for a whole whack of fans. Perhaps you don't set the bar high enough in life.

[XCHEKR]

I'm sure Bruno would be delighted to have you as an advocate and fervently pray that the BOD buys into those kind of magical numbers. A real reality distortion field .... unfortunately in reality, those numbers have only translated to one season and one round in the playoffs. You're right, numbers don't lie. Are you paying attention??? :rolleyes: And just for the record .. those numbers aren't good enough for a whole whack of fans. Perhaps you don't set the bar high enough in life.

REALLY!!!! Give it a rest already because i am guessing there are a whole lot of other fans out there besides myself that are totally sick of "BRUNO THIS, BRUNO THAT" > MOVE ON WILL YOU!!!!?????!!!!! :mad::mad::mad: GROW UP!!!!

[mjw22]

Not taking sides here but as an outside observer the numbers show a franchise in serious decline over the past 13 seasons. Since 2001 in the playoffs 4 times out in round one 3 times 1 conf final. Only finished higher than 4th in div twice . Previous 18 seasons 14 play off appearances 1 Memorial cup 5 div final appearances 1 conf final . So looking at those numbers I would guess there's lots of blame to go around Bruno included.
We had some crappy times here until the B.O.D. realized they had to stay out of things and put quality hockey people in charge . As well fans started demanding better results now just getting to round 1-2 isn't good enough you have to keep raising the bar. Sometime there's a core of fans just happy to have a team no matter what and until that changes well Good luck Raider Believer

[Wapitikev]

Not taking sides here but as an outside observer the numbers show a franchise in serious decline over the past 13 seasons. Since 2001 in the playoffs 4 times out in round one 3 times 1 conf final. Only finished higher than 4th in div twice . Previous 18 seasons 14 play off appearances 1 Memorial cup 5 div final appearances 1 conf final . So looking at those numbers I would guess there's lots of blame to go around Bruno included.
We had some crappy times here until the B.O.D. realized they had to stay out of things and put quality hockey people in charge . As well fans started demanding better results now just getting to round 1-2 isn't good enough you have to keep raising the bar. Sometime there's a core of fans just happy to have a team no matter what and until that changes well Good luck Raider Believer

You are correct. The organization went into the toilet from 2001-2008 thanks to a GM and his hockey-staff who didn't have the first clue how to run a WHL franchise or draft decent players.

The organization, today, has more talented players 18 and under than at any other time in the past 15 years.

But 18 and 17 y-o players don't make your team a winner. To make and go deep in the playoffs you need star 19 and 20 yo players.

However, unlike many other teams who had top-end prospects in 2008, the Raiders had nothing except Herrod. Only two players this year, 19 or 20, have more than a point a game: Maylan and Bardero (two more trades that Bruno won, BTW)...and while talented, neither one is considered dominant at their position.

As a result, the rebuild is taking longer than some would like.

Which means that Moose Jaw should enjoy the games we play against them for the rest of this year. Next year could be a different story.:)

-Wapitikev

[mjw22]

You are correct. The organization went into the toilet from 2001-2008 thanks to a GM and his hockey-staff who didn't have the first clue how to run a WHL franchise or draft decent players.

The organization, today, has more talented players 18 and under than at any other time in the past 15 years.

But 18 and 17 y-o players don't make your team a winner. To make and go deep in the playoffs you need star 19 and 20 yo players.

However, unlike many other teams who had top-end prospects in 2008, the Raiders had nothing except Herrod. Only two players this year, 19 or 20, have more than a point a game: Maylan and Bardero (two more trades that Bruno won, BTW)...and while talented, neither one is considered dominant at their position.

As a result, the rebuild is taking longer than some would like.

Which means that Moose Jaw should enjoy the games we play against them for the rest of this year. Next year could be a different story.:)

-Wapitikev

One could argue in the toilet 2001-2011 considering the record from 09 to 11. Bruno has had ample time to rebuild but has little to show for his time there. 1 playoff appearance in 4 yrs would get him fired anywhere else.I don't think his hockey acumen may be good enough for this level. Other teams were in similar situations when Bruno took over and have done a lot better.Trades you say he won Maylan was cheap because he had worn his welcome out in 2 other places. Fiddler seems to be producing so that may be even up long term even a loss IMO. Fans should be calling for a change .

[Wapitikev]

I'm sure Bruno would be delighted to have you as an advocate and fervently pray that the BOD buys into those kind of magical numbers. A real reality distortion field .... unfortunately in reality, those numbers have only translated to one season and one round in the playoffs. You're right, numbers don't lie. Are you paying attention??? :rolleyes: And just for the record .. those numbers aren't good enough for a whole whack of fans. Perhaps you don't set the bar high enough in life.

Well at least I can admit when someone is better than the last guy.

It must be sad to have a world that is all black, all the time.

I don't dispute the playoff finishes.

In your rush to marry the facts/stats, don't forget they were tied for the last playoff spot in 2009 and lost the one-game-tie-break to a hot goalie and the lack of video replay (which was installed the next fall).

So while you may say that Bruno should be judged on his playoff record, having enough points to make the playoffs 2 years out of 4 years (.500) is still a far better average than 3 years out of 7 (.428) sported by the previous GM who was here for 7 YEARS!

Personally, looking at the years from 2001 to 2008 and what was left in the pipeline the day before the 2008 bantam draft, making the playoffs was NOT at the top of the list of things this franchise needed to do. Building a legitimate base of talent that would allow us to contend was at the top of the list.

Without every GM in the W losing their minds for the next 4 years, then that can only be accomplished through the draft.

If you build from nothing through the draft then your first draft isn't 19 until 4 seasons later.

Which means that phase of the rebuild couldn't be completed until the end of this season.

Bruno has proven that he drafts well and can win trades.

Making the playoffs with his established talent base becomes the primary focus beginning next year.

Given the talent he had to work with at the end of 2008, I'm amazed that the team got even 67 points or better in 2009-2011. Fewer than that, this year, will be forgotten in a heartbeat if we have 80 or more next year.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

One could argue in the toilet 2001-2011 considering the record from 09 to 11. Bruno has had ample time to rebuild but has little to show for his time there. 1 playoff appearance in 4 yrs would get him fired anywhere else.I don't think his hockey acumen may be good enough for this level. Other teams were in similar situations when Bruno took over and have done a lot better.Trades you say he won Maylan was cheap because he had worn his welcome out in 2 other places. Fiddler seems to be producing so that may be even up long term even a loss IMO. Fans should be calling for a change .

Please see the last post.

-Wapitikev

[chalk_one_up]

The organization, today, has more talented players 18 and under than at any other time in the past 15 years.


I'm not sure this statement is all that true. I mean, the organization has Gardiner, Vanstone, Waseylenko, Zentner and a bunch of average prospects at this point.

Then, by looking at the current roster, the following were traded for:

Bourhis
McVeigh
Maylan
Bardaro
Hlinka
Tochkin
Yaworski
Hart
Guenther
Corbin
Holowenko

The following were listed:

Lee-Knight
Perreaux
Knowler
Braid

Not to mention, on the PPL (as per Small Thoughts at Large), there are 8 listed. On the roster, there are 7 drafted and developed players, not counting Knudsen. So really, the club isn't drafting exceptionally great, nor are they developing anyone. Constantly, the Raiders are trading for everyone elses' scraps.

Now, just looking at another team (Brandon), they have 12 drafted players, whom of which they have developed (not counting Mraz and Bertaggia), 4 listed players and 5 players who have been traded for. And, their prospect pool is so deep. I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but when you compare the Raiders, their prospect pool and the direction and future of the team, it isn't as bright as other teams, not to mention that in the past, I've seen the prospect pool better than it currently is.

[mjw22]

Please see the last post.

-Wapitikev

I tend to believe Raider Believer & supporters make a better case. Hey Wapitikev nothing wrong with being an eternal optimist every team needs those fans as well. :)

[Wapitikev]

I'm not sure this statement is all that true. I mean, the organization has Gardiner, Vanstone, Waseylenko, Zentner and a bunch of average prospects at this point.

Then, by looking at the current roster, the following were traded for:

Bourhis
McVeigh
Maylan
Bardaro
Hlinka
Tochkin
Yaworski
Hart
Guenther
Corbin
Holowenko

The following were listed:

Lee-Knight
Perreaux
Knowler
Braid

Not to mention, on the PPL (as per Small Thoughts at Large), there are 8 listed. On the roster, there are 7 drafted and developed players, not counting Knudsen. So really, the club isn't drafting exceptionally great, nor are they developing anyone. Constantly, the Raiders are trading for everyone elses' scraps.

Now, just looking at another team (Brandon), they have 12 drafted players, whom of which they have developed (not counting Mraz and Bertaggia), 4 listed players and 5 players who have been traded for. And, their prospect pool is so deep. I know it's comparing apples to oranges, but when you compare the Raiders, their prospect pool and the direction and future of the team, it isn't as bright as other teams, not to mention that in the past, I've seen the prospect pool better than it currently is.

How long ago was that prospect pool and who was in it?

With all due respect you make my argument for me...

Bourhis
Maylan
Bardaro
Tochkin
Yaworski
Hart
Corbin
McVeigh (for Herrod)

My argument is this: these players are 19 and 20...spots that SHOULD have been filled by players that would have been drafted in 2006 & 2007 by the GM prior to Bruno...but of all his picks and signings in 2006 and 2007 he got only one right...Brandon Herrod.

In short, you can't develop players that would have been 19 and 20 this year when there were none to develop.

Brandon drafted well back in 2006 and 2007 and every year thereafter...and their organization shows what strong drafting can do for 6 straight years (with 12 players they drafted still on their roster).

How many of those 12 are 19 or 20 this year?

So, take 5 of the 7 "acquired" players (listed above) taking up slots that SHOULD have been (but weren't) filled by players drafted by the previous GM...that makes the drafted and developed players 12...just like Brandon.

So unless Bruno lost all those trades (which he didn't) then any lack of quality in the current 19 and 20 year old players only goes to show how un-talented the players in the pipeline were when Bruno took over.

So believe who you want, but you're not taking into account how poor PA's talent and prospects were only 4 years ago by comparing them to Brandon which had both, at that time.

-Wapitikev

[XCHEKR]

Not taking sides here but as an outside observer the numbers show a franchise in serious decline over the past 13 seasons. Since 2001 in the playoffs 4 times out in round one 3 times 1 conf final. Only finished higher than 4th in div twice . Previous 18 seasons 14 play off appearances 1 Memorial cup 5 div final appearances 1 conf final . So looking at those numbers I would guess there's lots of blame to go around Bruno included.
We had some crappy times here until the B.O.D. realized they had to stay out of things and put quality hockey people in charge . As well fans started demanding better results now just getting to round 1-2 isn't good enough you have to keep raising the bar. Sometime there's a core of fans just happy to have a team no matter what and until that changes well Good luck Raider Believer

Poor Soul > no one on your board to discuss how your team is going to discontinue losing their road games??? Some people have nothing better to do than jump from board to board seeing how much they can stir the pot!!!!:rolleyes:

[mjw22]

Poor Soul > no one on your board to discuss how your team is going to discontinue losing their road games??? Some people have nothing better to do than jump from board to board seeing how much they can stir the pot!!!!:rolleyes:

lol go give Bruno a hug . If you could read I know some can't you would see I was offering an outside view to a discussion that's been on going on this site.If that's stirring the pot you're a pretty insecure fellow :D