2012 bantam draft

[Dwight Schrute]

So what picks do the raiders own and when is the lottery ? As of now pa is tied for dead last. Who is the best player that will report ?

[AAAScout]

Barzal is the best available by far. some say he will report others say he won;t. the only way to find out is to draft him and see, if he doesn't report, oh well move on, but you must pick him.

[Dwight Schrute]

Barzal is the best available by far. some say he will report others say he won;t. the only way to find out is to draft him and see, if he doesn't report, oh well move on, but you must pick him.

Anyone close ? Don't want a brûlé situation or a Luke moffat situation.

[Wapitikev]

Anyone close ? Don't want a brûlé situation or a Luke moffat situation.

Agreed.

Nor a Cole Penner situation.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

That doent really say what you guys would do. If the Raiders do loose and get the 1st overall pick do you take Barzal ? He is not the only great player in the draft .... but sounds like he is by far the best.

[Western Elite]

removed by request

[Wapitikev]

That doent really say what you guys would do. If the Raiders do loose and get the 1st overall pick do you take Barzal ? He is not the only great player in the draft .... but sounds like he is by far the best.

Business as usual since the current scouting staff took over...

...talk to Barzal (and other candidates)...let him and his agent know you will be drafting him if you get the first pick and ask them to decide by a certain deadline whether they will report or not.

And draft accordingly.

If his next option is Prince George, Prince Albert may not be that bad a choice.

-Wapitikev

[Raider Believer]

Business as usual since the current scouting staff took over...

...talk to Barzal (and other candidates)...let him and his agent know you will be drafting him if you get the first pick and ask them to decide by a certain deadline whether they will report or not.

And draft accordingly.

If his next option is Prince George, Prince Albert may not be that bad a choice.

-Wapitikev

USHL is the option he will pursue.

[AAAScout]

in my opinion it is very simple, you draft Barzal. if he doesn't want to play here, oh well he won't play anywhere else either!! he can go to USHL or go Jr A route and try college, you keep him on your list and if he ends up in college you add him to your college list and at some point if he ever wants to play in the dub, someone has to give you what you want for him. people can understand taking the best player, that is what you have to do.

[Raider Believer]

in my opinion it is very simple, you draft Barzal. if he doesn't want to play here, oh well he won't play anywhere else either!! he can go to USHL or go Jr A route and try college, you keep him on your list and if he ends up in college you add him to your college list and at some point if he ever wants to play in the dub, someone has to give you what you want for him. people can understand taking the best player, that is what you have to do.

I would agree with you in principle. Teams like Kelowna did exactly that with Moffat - and came up empty. The following year they had inside info and knew that McColgan would report to them ( and 5 other teams ) and nabbed him. I'm just not sure PA can afford to be this hardnosed about it. Maybe they could trade down and get a very, very good prospect player who would report and get something valuable for trading down.

[mjw22]

I would agree with you in principle. Teams like Kelowna did exactly that with Moffat - and came up empty. The following year they had inside info and knew that McColgan would report to them ( and 5 other teams ) and nabbed him. I'm just not sure PA can afford to be this hardnosed about it. Maybe they could trade down and get a very, very good prospect player who would report and get something valuable for trading down.

If you're looking to get in the play offs next year you could move that pick for 94-95 players to put with Winther and your other prospects.

[Sttop]

If you're looking to get in the play offs next year you could move that pick for 94-95 players to put with Winther and your other prospects.

Thats a very interesting thought. Trade that pick for a couple of great 17 or 18 year olds... I wouldnt hate that.

[AAAScout]

Thats a very interesting thought. Trade that pick for a couple of great 17 or 18 year olds... I wouldnt hate that.

I personally think that's a no win situation. if those players you trade for don't stud it up, you will always be judged by that if Barzal does anything at all(he appears to be a can't miss kid) you would be always on the cusp of everyone judging that trade with a microscope. not sure how you could get enough to alleviate yourself of that pressure.

[Western Elite]

Something else for Prince Albert fans to consider is that it is very likely that Barzal (at this point) looks like a 2 year WHLer. Couple that with the rumoured desire for him to play in the lower mainland or perhaps not even at all, makes this a tough situation.

[Sttop]

That is why I dont think he is a good pick. If he is as far ahead as everyone says then chances are he could be a 2 year player. My thoughts are just that if there is a chance he wont come , coupled with the chances he is only in the WHL until he is 18 it may be better to go with a kid like Estephan, Merkley or Soy. All I am saying is was RNH really a better pick for the Rebels then St. Croix or Rattie ? Unless Bruno gets verbal confimation that Barzal will play in Prince Albert, I hope he trades down a spot and takes Soy or Estephan.

[Wapitikev]

That is why I dont think he is a good pick. If he is as far ahead as everyone says then chances are he could be a 2 year player. My thoughts are just that if there is a chance he wont come , coupled with the chances he is only in the WHL until he is 18 it may be better to go with a kid like Estephan, Merkley or Soy. All I am saying is was RNH really a better pick for the Rebels then St. Croix or Rattie ? Unless Bruno gets verbal confimation that Barzal will play in Prince Albert, I hope he trades down a spot and takes Soy or Estephan.

Or maybe a 19 year old goaltender like Cole Cheveldave, a quality (albeit only a rookie) starting Goaltender (Kamloops) from a lower mainland team?

Unlikely but you don't get if you don't ask. We'd likely have to give up something else in addition.

That would give Feibelkorn, Phaneuf, Parenteau, or some other, time to develop into the starter for 2014/2015.

-Wapitikev

[RaineBlade]

I think the Raiders need to reach out to alumni (Modano, Hartnell, Philips, Shultz, Tippett) and NHL'ers with local ties in the Lakeland (Babcock, Regehr) and start a PR campaign to help erase negative stigma about playing in Prince Albert. Drafting and having a kid like Barzal (if he is that good!!) play and excel here would go a long way to painting a positive image for this franchise. Then hopefully some on ice success will follow.

[mjw22]

If this kid is as good as I hear and may not want to go to a rebuilding team. I would think you could get some quality 17-18 yr olds that have played a season or two in the dub. This may be more of a help than trading down for a player that may not show any return for 1-2 years down the road. After the top 5 picks it's a crap shoot if they develop into top line impact players. not starting anything but one of these 1st round below expectation players played in PA Maylan . He never developed into the top line player we thought he would when MJ drafted him. He didnt put up decent numbers until 19 -20 and not numbers one would expect from a 1st round pick . The league has lots of 1st round picks that don't live up to expectations.

[Wapitikev]

I think the Raiders need to reach out to alumni (Modano, Hartnell, Philips, Shultz, Tippett) and NHL'ers with local ties in the Lakeland (Babcock, Regehr) and start a PR campaign to help erase negative stigma about playing in Prince Albert. Drafting and having a kid like Barzal (if he is that good!!) play and excel here would go a long way to painting a positive image for this franchise. Then hopefully some on ice success will follow.

Excellent idea, no matter who the pick is. The WHL has the "Why I chose the WHL campaign" which is complementary/similar.

I'll speak to the BOD members I know.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

If this kid is as good as I hear and may not want to go to a rebuilding team. I would think you could get some quality 17-18 yr olds that have played a season or two in the dub. This may be more of a help than trading down for a player that may not show any return for 1-2 years down the road. After the top 5 picks it's a crap shoot if they develop into top line impact players. not starting anything but one of these 1st round below expectation players played in PA Maylan . He never developed into the top line player we thought he would when MJ drafted him. He didnt put up decent numbers until 19 -20 and not numbers one would expect from a 1st round pick . The league has lots of 1st round picks that don't live up to expectations.

At least the MJ scouting in 2006 was better than PA's; [cough] Cole Penner [cough].

PA's record since 2008 on 1st rounders hasn't had any gaps like that, however.

McNeil (NHL1st round)
Winther (projected NHL late 1st, early 2nd round)
Morissey (looks like NHL 1st round...World U17, highest scoring rookie D-man in Raider history)
Gardiner (early going looks good...Youth Olympics leading scorer [tied], etc.)

Am confident that trend will continue.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

I agree that the Raiders 1st round picks have been solid , but the other side of the coin is it is the picks after the 1st round that have to come around to make a great team. Morrissey is the only player in the 10 draft that will help the Raiders. in 09 the Raiders may have had the best draft so far with Danyluk and Lange playing as well as Winther. 08 after Mcniell I think the Raiders drafted poorly taking Steaurt, Balson, and Formosa all before 50 overall.

[Wapitikev]

I agree that the Raiders 1st round picks have been solid , but the other side of the coin is it is the picks after the 1st round that have to come around to make a great team. Morrissey is the only player in the 10 draft that will help the Raiders. in 09 the Raiders may have had the best draft so far with Danyluk and Lange playing as well as Winther. 08 after Mcniell I think the Raiders drafted poorly taking Steaurt, Balson, and Formosa all before 50 overall.

I don't disagree that 2008 was not great after the second round [Ruop].

..and Balson was drafted 61st according to my WHL Handbook...you were correct on the other two.

With the old scouting regime left from the "Cole Penner" days, there's only so much a new GM can do (McNeil & Ruop) in 2008 before you have to rely on your head-scout...and we know what happened to him.

In 2009 the GM overruled too many of his picks and he was released.

and while we're on 2009, don't forget Feibelkorn (78th) was a winning goalie on a Manitoba Midget team this year as a 17-yo.

BUT it is too early to say for 2010 that there aren't enough drafted players on the team after the top two picks...we have Mahura and Morissey...how many 16-year-old players do we need?

In the words of Terry Simpson "The WHL isn't a glorified midget league."

We won't know until the coming season (when they can be 17-yo rookies like Lange) how poorly or not that draft year turned out.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Fiebs was the first goalie cut last year. If he was in the plans he would have been with the team over Knight . I think Pareantau is the goalie that the Raiders are crossing there fingers on right now.

[AAAScout]

you really need around 3 players from each draft to make the team and be WHL caliber, anything over that is called depth and can then create a rapid rebuild through trades etc etc. For me the book is still very out there on whether or not Mahura is going to be a WHL player or end up being a good Jr A player. Kamloops would perhaps give up a goalie to the raiders in a deal for barzal, depending on how well they think former Minto Kozun could play in the league next year, he is currently with Kamloops for their playoff run after playing in the SJHL for Nipawin this year as a 17yr old. The Raiders don't need to run out and trade everything away for everyone elses stiff 19 year olds again just to try and save jobs at the end of next year, team was old this year, that didn't help, anything they get needs to be quality not just fill the hole 19 year olds, we have seen that show way to much already.

[Wapitikev]

Fiebs was the first goalie cut last year. If he was in the plans he would have been with the team over Knight . I think Pareantau is the goalie that the Raiders are crossing there fingers on right now.

Hmmn. Brendan, only one year older, had a GAA of 2.16 (1.13 goals per game less) and save% of .908 as opposed to .881...and his team only made it to the second round of the playoffs, unlike the Contacts who are still playing (versus Mintos).

Pretty hard to take Fiebs away from his team after Christmas when his team is at the top of the standings and he's the #1 tender, just so he can ride the bench in PA.

BUT Parenteau's been relegated to backup in the playoffs. No games. Shields, the older goalie, is getting all the games.

Things change and based on this last season, Feibs got better as the year went on (I think his save% was only .900 at Christmas).

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

you really need around 3 players from each draft to make the team and be WHL caliber, anything over that is called depth and can then create a rapid rebuild through trades etc etc. For me the book is still very out there on whether or not Mahura is going to be a WHL player or end up being a good Jr A player. Kamloops would perhaps give up a goalie to the raiders in a deal for barzal, depending on how well they think former Minto Kozun could play in the league next year, he is currently with Kamloops for their playoff run after playing in the SJHL for Nipawin this year as a 17yr old. The Raiders don't need to run out and trade everything away for everyone elses stiff 19 year olds again just to try and save jobs at the end of next year, team was old this year, that didn't help, anything they get needs to be quality not just fill the hole 19 year olds, we have seen that show way to much already.

Yes...the only reason you would trade for a 19 yo would be if he was a starting goalie in the top of the league standings (and also played in southern BC to make Barzal happy). Cheveldave is 6th overall.

Trading the first pick overall for a 19yo skater would be ridiculous, even if he was a D-man...fixing the D will be far cheaper than that [more on that tomorrow].

The team averaged over 3 goals "for" since December 30th (when the winning streak ended) so getting a reliable tender for 2013 and 2014 that can keep a GAA under 3 is not just plugging holes to save jobs. It is a huge part of the difference between making and missing the playoffs for the next 2 years.

The team lost 16 games by 1 goal. 32 extra points gives the team 80 points on the season. Granted that's still 1 point out of the playoffs but it is more along the lines of where people expected the team to be this season.

I have no way of checking, but a majority of those games in the second half saw a goal in the first 3 shots on net (by the opposition). Holowenkos' Achilles-heel.

That needs to stop.

Agreed on Mahura but 2010 still won't prove out until next season.

-Wapitikev

[mjw22]

At least the MJ scouting in 2006 was better than PA's; [cough] Cole Penner [cough].

PA's record since 2008 on 1st rounders hasn't had any gaps like that, however.

McNeil (NHL1st round)
Winther (projected NHL late 1st, early 2nd round)
Morissey (looks like NHL 1st round...World U17, highest scoring rookie D-man in Raider history)
Gardiner (early going looks good...Youth Olympics leading scorer [tied], etc.)

Am confident that trend will continue.

-Wapitikev

With those adding a couple 17-18 roster players for the 1st pick may move you along quicker than a pick will.

[Dwight Schrute]

In 2009 the GM overruled too many of his picks and he was released.


-Wapitikev

Since Clarke was canned in jan of 2008 which gm overruled the 2009 draft and got canned ?

[Wapitikev]

Since Clarke was canned in jan of 2008 which gm overruled the 2009 draft and got canned ?
No GM.

The sentence immediately before the one you quoted started "With the old scouting regime left from the "Cole Penner" days..." and talked about trusting the "head scout".

So, in the sentence that confuses you "his" and "he" = "the head scout who drafted Cole Penner"

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

kev I wasent going by stats I was saying parentau is a better prospect from watching them play. fiebs is a 17 year old now parentau is 15 remember

[Wapitikev]

With those adding a couple 17-18 roster players for the 1st pick may move you along quicker than a pick will.

Our roster/list already has players to complement those draft picks. Scoring is not the problem, defense and goaltending are.

Hodder and Waseylenko are acceptable improvements on 3 disappointing d-men on our Roster, now, that together total -45 [names will be named tomorrow].

With a consistent goalie and 1 steady d-man, our roster is exponentially improved for the coming year.

No need to sell the first overall pick for more utility skaters.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

kev I wasent going by stats I was saying parentau is a better prospect from watching them play. fiebs is a 17 year old now parentau is 15 remember

I'm not saying that Rylan won't be better than Fiebs; he has a lot of talent. But unless he is on par with the likes of Roy or Price, then he needs time to build the confidence that great goalies need.

Plus the goaltender position isn't like a skating position...you don't earn more ice-time game-by-game. You either get it all or you get none.

Becoming the Contacts #1 next fall and (hopefully) developing into a dominant goalie prior to the Raider's 2013 training camp would serve us better than asking him to get a tiny bit of experience as our backup in 2012-2013.

Otherwise we risk the problem that Holo has...someone told me the other day that this is Holo's first time at any level that he's been the undisputed #1 guy...and his lack of consistency shows it.

Feibs wasn't as good as Holo or Williams last fall so he was sent down. But, as the year progressed, Fiebs developed and took over as his team's #1 goalie...which then made it a bad choice to interrupt that development and have him come to PA to sit the bench after Christmas instead of the hyphenator (Luke L-K).

Based on experience, Fiebs (who turned 18 in January) has a year as a starter under his belt and therefore has a better chance of winning a WHL job than Parenteau does, next fall.

Perhaps Rylan will end up as Fiebs backup in 2013 and take the starting job away as the year unfolds. So much the better.

Hell, maybe he'll steal the show at camp this fall. But as a 16 y-o and based on the fact that he is still the backup in Saskatoon right now, that seems unlikely, regardless of his skills.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Well the Blazers are playing their backup tonight and called up Taran Cozun to back him up...so no Cheveldave tonight in Prince George...'loops is saving him for the playoffs, no doubt.

PG is up 2-1 in the 3rd.

Thanx to this move by Kamloops, it looks like the 1st pick to PA is secure going into the lottery.

...that 1st pick to Kamloops deal I floated earlier is looking better all the time...we must have offered more than PG did. Heh.

Let the conspiracy theory gain momentum!




...actually, with the loss in MJ tonight by PA, I don't think the PG game even matters. PG already had more wins than PA with 1 game left, so PA should already have last place sown up.

With our luck we'll probably lose the lottery.

Heh.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

It's official (according to the WHL web-site).

Kamloops 2, PG 4

Prince Albert has finished dead last with 21 wins, 10 fewer than last year. Worst finish since 2001 when we had only 43 points and 18 wins.

Bring on the lottery!

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

3 wins in there last 21 games, thats a team that quit on the coaches. Bring on the offseason moves !

[RaineBlade]

I guess finishing dead last also means a high pick in the import draft. Does anyone know how they rank the teams; does lowest rank team in each league go in turn (PA would get a top 3) or do they go by points for all 3 leagues (PA would get 4th behind Erie-26, Kingston-46, PEI-44).

[Dwight Schrute]

I guess finishing dead last also means a high pick in the import draft. Does anyone know how they rank the teams; does lowest rank team in each league go in turn (PA would get a top 3) or do they go by points for all 3 leagues (PA would get 4th behind Erie-26, Kingston-46, PEI-44).

League by league for pick. We would have a top 3 import pick. The only problem is again who will report. I would love to see a top flight euro dman but with these players all having a Choice I don't like our odds. However trading that pick to a team like Saskatoon or Calgary or Vancouver could net us a nice return

[AAAScout]

3 wins in there last 21 games, thats a team that quit on the coaches. Bring on the offseason moves !

here is my question...........if this team quit on the coaches, then why did the same 6 forwards still play all the minutes in the last 21 games?? still didn't play 3rd and 4th line very much!!

that is the hard thing when coaches are coaching for contracts, they weren't worried about improving the 3rd and 4th line by ice time, they were trying to outright win games.

[AAAScout]

I'm not saying that Rylan won't be better than Fiebs; he has a lot of talent. But unless he is on par with the likes of Roy or Price, then he needs time to build the confidence that great goalies need.

Plus the goaltender position isn't like a skating position...you don't earn more ice-time game-by-game. You either get it all or you get none.

Becoming the Contacts #1 next fall and (hopefully) developing into a dominant goalie prior to the Raider's 2013 training camp would serve us better than asking him to get a tiny bit of experience as our backup in 2012-2013.

Otherwise we risk the problem that Holo has...someone told me the other day that this is Holo's first time at any level that he's been the undisputed #1 guy...and his lack of consistency shows it.

Feibs wasn't as good as Holo or Williams last fall so he was sent down. But, as the year progressed, Fiebs developed and took over as his team's #1 goalie...which then made it a bad choice to interrupt that development and have him come to PA to sit the bench after Christmas instead of the hyphenator (Luke L-K).

Based on experience, Fiebs (who turned 18 in January) has a year as a starter under his belt and therefore has a better chance of winning a WHL job than Parenteau does, next fall.

Perhaps Rylan will end up as Fiebs backup in 2013 and take the starting job away as the year unfolds. So much the better.

Hell, maybe he'll steal the show at camp this fall. But as a 16 y-o and based on the fact that he is still the backup in Saskatoon right now, that seems unlikely, regardless of his skills.

-Wapitikev


no need to worry about Paranteau cracking the Raiders next year, unless something really happens in Calgary(WHL) Shields will once again be the starter for the Contacts next season(if you look at Calgary, they have a 19 and 18 coming back, and they both play lots, so no room for Shields yet,maybe SJHL?) and Paranteau will take even longer to develop as he then basically won't start until 17 years old.

[Dwight Schrute]

Lottery is tomorrow. Here's hoping

[Trav]

no need to worry about Paranteau cracking the Raiders next year, unless something really happens in Calgary(WHL) Shields will once again be the starter for the Contacts next season(if you look at Calgary, they have a 19 and 18 coming back, and they both play lots, so no room for Shields yet,maybe SJHL?) and Paranteau will take even longer to develop as he then basically won't start until 17 years old.


Shields will be in Calgary. Glover will be 20 next year, they won't keep him. Diedger will be 18 and can start, Shields will be 17 and should be a good backup. If he's not the backup in Calgary next year then something is wrong with the Hitmen.

[chalk_one_up]

Well, it's unfortunate the Raiders couldn't get the first pick. So who does the team target with the 2nd pick?

[RaineBlade]

League by league for pick. We would have a top 3 import pick. The only problem is again who will report. I would love to see a top flight euro dman but with these players all having a Choice I don't like our odds. However trading that pick to a team like Saskatoon or Calgary or Vancouver could net us a nice return

Didn't get a chance to see Bazevics at the beginnning of the year but could he be back and fill that d-man role or was he a bust?

[puckdad]

Bust- not a high hockey IQ or capable of assimilating systems.

[Raiderfan8]

I would like to see the Raiders get ESTEPHAN or SOY with the second overall pick. I don't know how they could pull it off but I think trading up our 2nd round pick to get Defenceman Ethan BEAR late in the first round would also be great for our hockey club and community.


Can anyone tell me why Terrell Draude name isnt mentioned in the top 5 picks as well? Looks like a big kid for the Sask Valley Vipers in the Saskatchewan Bantam hockey leauge and the leauges top scorer.

[Sttop]

he is a possible 2nd rounder his skating isnt fantastic by any stretch

[AAAScout]

I would like to see the Raiders get ESTEPHAN or SOY with the second overall pick. I don't know how they could pull it off but I think trading up our 2nd round pick to get Defenceman Ethan BEAR late in the first round would also be great for our hockey club and community.


Can anyone tell me why Terrell Draude name isnt mentioned in the top 5 picks as well? Looks like a big kid for the Sask Valley Vipers in the Saskatchewan Bantam hockey leauge and the leauges top scorer.

Don't get fooled by the internet and statistics, Draude can't skate a lick and the North Division was very weak and he cherry picked a lot of points against weak teams. Against the top teams in the province when challenged by top players and speed he didn't produce nearly as much at all. perhaps at best someone takes a flyer on him late 1st Round. Same as habelgewacz out of Balgonie(Prairie Storm) good skill guy skates real good, but very small and when they went to St Albert for the big bantam AAA tourney there against the other top players, he was very outmatched.

Saskatchewan doesn't have a lot of top end talent for the WHL draft this year unfortunately.

[lordstanley]

Contacts beat the Minto's tonight for the league champinoship:clap:

[XCHEKR]

Contacts beat the Minto's tonight for the league champinoship:clap:

WOW!!! Had to resort to that? ..... I thought we wouldn't be hearing from you and here you are!!! And what happened to the Almighty Blades tonight????

[lordstanley]

WOW!!! Had to resort to that? ..... I thought we wouldn't be hearing from you and here you are!!! And what happened to the Almighty Blades tonight????

Well take what you want from that just not sure if people were following that league or not Mintos have won there fair share of championships will win more

As for the Blades yes they did lose tonight it's gonna be a long series

[XCHEKR]

Well take what you want from that just not sure if people were following that league or not Mintos have won there fair share of championships will win more

As for the Blades yes they did lose tonight it's gonna be a long series

For sure .... don't know of too many that either do not follow the Mintos or go to their games!!

[Raiderfan8]

Well if the Mintos were gonna lose im glad it was future Raider Reid GARDNIER scoring a goal and assist to beat them!;)

[Raiderfan8]

If we are gonna draft another goalie we might as well take a chance on this kid! His brother Josh has been fun to watch this year.

Morrissey, Jake

Calgary Royals Bantam AAA

1079 min

36 Goals against

12 Wins

2 Losses

4 Shutouts

.922 Save Per.

Jake was named to the South All Star game this year.