Training Camp - thoughts and questions

[Wapitikev]

I have been very impressed with the 97 s . Guhle. Mcbride. Gennero. Miller. And srewart have all been very good . Aside from Leon, miller and Gennero may be the most dangerous forwards. If Miller keeps his head in the game he will be great
It's good to see everything right with the world/site again.

I was doing some training camp bingo this am at the Scrimmage (checking off the jersey numbers to the Team-Blue roster-sheet) and the only d-man that I didn't see on the ice was 8 Marshal Burr...which leaves me thinking that red-WHL-jersey-guy is Burr, not Finnson (#6).

So, if it is Burr, you can add him to the list of competent '97s.

...looks like the best draft for Derkatch (and his team) so far.

Off to catch tonight's game.

...and it's good to be back.

-Wapitikev

[Sabes]

Player wearing red is Burr

[Wapitikev]

Player wearing red is Burr
:)

Couldn't find a red smilie.

How did you like Miller vs Odeline?

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Miller has Penner talent and temper from t
he looks of it

[Wapitikev]

Miller has Penner talent and temper from t
he looks of it

Hope he smartens up faster than Penner. He coasts sometimes without the puck when I'd expect him to go get in there and come out with it. Has good speed, though, and lots of talent. Hope he makes main camp.

Not terribly excited about Laquette...couldn't skate backwards well at practice yesterday am. Got beat during drills more than once because of it. Makes good hockey decisions, mostly, though.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Hope he smartens up faster than Penner. He coasts sometimes without the puck when I'd expect him to go get in there and come out with it. Has good speed, though, and lots of talent. Hope he makes main camp.

Not terribly excited about Laquette...couldn't skate backwards well at practice yesterday am. Got beat during drills more than once because of it. Makes good hockey decisions, mostly, though.

-Wapitikev

Just wondering but u realize miller is a 15 year old 6th round pick right? He has outplayed gardiner and vanstone badly . And i am saying that on both ends of the ice.

[lordstanley]

Just wondering but u realize miller is a 15 year old 6th round pick right? He has outplayed gardiner and vanstone badly . And i am saying that on both ends of the ice.

Miller has the same off ice ishues as Penner did Miller is still a young guy he will be a good 1 a lot of skill and possible steal where you got him

[Wapitikev]

Just wondering but u realize miller is a 15 year old 6th round pick right? He has outplayed gardiner and vanstone badly . And i am saying that on both ends of the ice.
Yes he was drafted this year and hacked a linesman a month later.

Didn't you say he wouldn't make it to main camp a few posts back (on the other board)? Looks to me like he should (as I said last night).

Penner never got his head on straight...Miller has a chance to...time will tell.

Yes Miller is talented but he also missed the net a lot after getting breakaways. He needs to continue to develop his talent after having most of last year off. I'm not saying he's floating but I just want a little more from him so he can be great instead of just very good.

Outplaying Vanstone is not that hard, since he has Vanstone's grit but is bigger and much more talented.

Gardiner looked pretty good passing to Draisaitl tonight on their two rushes...but Gardiner is not a tough-guy and will likely never be one at his size.

If Miller can get (keep?) his head on straight and work hard this year then he'll have Gardiner's skill and Vanstone's grit and will therefore be better than either of them.

...but he's not there yet and he has a long way to go to make the Raiders next fall.

I congratulate Dale for taking a chance on him.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

So, after the red-jersey-mystery was solved, Burr did not dress for tonight's game.

Shortly after serving his fighting major, Odeline left the game and did not return. His team finished the game with only 5 defensemen.

Zentner, Yaremchuk, Welykholowa and Matthew Wass also have not seen any scrimmage action. Zentner wasn't even at the first practice. Yaremchuk apparently was at the first practice. I'm not sure of Wely or Wass.

It still may be difficult to get down to 15 rookies to advance to main camp.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Miller has the same off ice ishues as Penner did Miller is still a young guy he will be a good 1 a lot of skill and possible steal where you got him
He is definitely a steal if he makes good decisions from here-on-in.

But, as Sttop said, all the drafts from this year that played (2 were injured) looked very good against the 16 and 17yos.

Riley Dupre, Reed Gunville, Conor Yawney and Jarod Hilderman (all '97s) did quite well for camp-invites and it wouldn't surprise me if some of them get listed.

Dale Derkatch's scouting group is developing quite nicely.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

are u talking about waselenko? cuz hes with the vets

[Wapitikev]

are u talking about waselenko? cuz hes with the vets
No.

I'm talking about Matthew Wass...#21 on the Blue roster who didn't play a minute of scrimmage time.

And, yes, I am aware that Waseylenko has a main camp invite and (as a 19yo) was not skating with the rookies.

:)

-Wapitkev

[Wapitikev]

So who should the 15 be to advance?

We need at least 2 goalies to advance.

McBride was the best goalie but Phaneuf's lateral movement was far better today, he is as big as McBride, and he won the last game in the shootout.

Parenteau is a lock, even though his style reminds me of Luongo...finishing off too many plays laying on his belly.

Will moving on help McBride or Phanuef more.

McBride must know, barring some catastophic setback, that he is the Raiders starting goalie in 2014-15...and likely the backup next fall (13/14)...but since he can only play a handful of games this year, why advance him?

And I don't think that Phaneuf is as awful as his stats last year suggest (his whole team was awful).

If I were coaching, I'd want to see how his huge frame and average skill fares against the veterans.

Plus, thinking ahead, if Siemens or Holowenko gets hurt this year, whose more likely to get called up, Parenteau who will be the key starter for the provincial championship contending Contacts or Phanuef who's team is so awful they won't miss him and he won't miss them?

My choices: Parentau and Phaneuf move on. I'd like them to take all three, though.


We could use 5 or 6 D-men to advance.

1 Tyler Dea: best D-man on team Yellow (aka: team facial hair).
2 Mackenzie Stewart: The incredible Hulk! He moves up. Let's see how he does against guys his size.
3 Ghule ('97)
4 Finnson
5 Laquette
Burr (also a '97) outplayed Laquette but Burr didn't dress for tonight's game so he's likely injured.

Honourable mention: Ben Verrall (16yo)...tall kid who plays smart but needs to fill his frame out to make the W...makes good decisions and hits when he needs to. Listed player...could be a steal in future years if he gets thicker.


That leaves 8 forwards (or 7 if we advance 3 goalies or 6 d-men):

1 Draisaitl
2 Miller ('97)
3 Gennaro ('97)
4 Gardiner
5 Vanstone
6 Meyer
7 Osczevski (Mintos) small, but many of his plays work
8 ?
There could be a bunch of names for that last question mark...Middagh was average as was Sigurdson, and McMann. Dupre is yet another '97 and is an agitator. Zach Foesch is 18 (the oldest kid at rookie camp)...didn't see him much until the last game but he put a lightning-bolt through the legs of McBride as the first shootout shooter.

Anyone I missed (probably).

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

No.

I'm talking about Matthew Wass...#21 on the Blue roster who didn't play a minute of scrimmage time.

And, yes, I am aware that Waseylenko has a main camp invite and (as a 19yo) was not skating with the rookies.

:)

-Wapitkev
...and Matthew Wass is a forward while Mat Waseylenko is a D-man.

Good thing that Wass was a no-show...only one of them could ever make the team because it would be too darned confusing.

Heh.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Jeff D'andrea reports in his most recent article on PANow.com (http://www.panow.com/node/243762) that there will be 17 players moving up to main camp on Friday...that's up from 15 as reported yesterday.

It will be interesting to see who the extra two are and at what position.

-Wapitikev

[Sabes]

Some kids will be gone because of their midget team try outs.

[Wapitikev]

Some kids will be gone because of their midget team try outs.McBride will be staying for main camp.

Verrall got promoted and Laquette didn't. They also promoted Tanner Johnson from team yellow.

In addition to the forwards I listed, the coaches added McMann, Magalas, Law, Middagh, Lueken and Stewart.

So that would be 21 rookies promoted to main camp.

...and no Grundy.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Hope Miller is okay, he hurt his left leg at the very end of the game and could put very little weight on it leaving the ice, under his own power though.

Vanstone had a good hit on Miller much earlier in the game but Miller popped right back up.

Mike Winther, who left the practice early this am, played the whole scrimmage tonight.

Holowenko had a bad first period. Parenteau was better in the second and third.

Oscveski (Minto) had one (pretty) goal of yellow's 7.

Draisaitl = sniper.

Mackenzie Stewart still looked good against guys his own size.

Bobby McMann surprised me on one play, slipping the defensemen for a shot.

Siemens and McBride = solid.

I'm out.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Hope Miller is okay, he hurt his left leg at the very end of the game and could put very little weight on it leaving the ice, under his own power though.

Vanstone had a good hit on Miller much earlier in the game but Miller popped right back up.

Mike Winther, who left the practice early this am, played the whole scrimmage tonight.

Holowenko had a bad first period. Parenteau was better in the second and third.

Oscveski (Minto) had one (pretty) goal of yellow's 7.

Draisaitl = sniper.

Mackenzie Stewart still looked good against guys his own size.

Bobby McMann surprised me on one play, slipping the defensemen for a shot.

Siemens and McBride = solid.

I'm out.

-Wapitikev

I hear some have said Drat is the German Gretzky and broke a lot of Marco Sturms German records

[Wapitikev]

I hear some have said Drat is the German Gretzky and broke a lot of Marco Sturms German records
He's big, skates extremely well, keeps his head up and has outstanding hockey skills. He's rookie of the year material.

Very fun to watch.

-Wapitikev

[Raiderfan8]

I am starting to really like Mackenze Stewart! He's a big 17 year old D man at 6'3 , 225lbs. A little work on his skating and getting use to the speed of the WHL and this kid could be a diamond in the rough.

Stewart showed that he was willing to fight by asking Braid to go this morning at camp. Although he lost the fight at least he was back out a few shifts later playing the same way. I'd say out of the new Defenseman in camp he will be staying forsure.

[Raiderfan8]

Hope Miller is okay, he hurt his left leg at the very end of the game and could put very little weight on it leaving the ice, under his own power though.

Vanstone had a good hit on Miller much earlier in the game but Miller popped right back up.

Mike Winther, who left the practice early this am, played the whole scrimmage tonight.

Holowenko had a bad first period. Parenteau was better in the second and third.

Oscveski (Minto) had one (pretty) goal of yellow's 7.

Draisaitl = sniper.

Mackenzie Stewart still looked good against guys his own size.

Bobby McMann surprised me on one play, slipping the defensemen for a shot.

Siemens and McBride = solid.

I'm out.

-Wapitikev

Miller was not at this morning's skate. FYI

[Wapitikev]

I am starting to really like Mackenze Stewart! He's a big 17 year old D man at 6'3 , 225lbs. A little work on his skating and getting use to the speed of the WHL and this kid could be a diamond in the rough.

Stewart showed that he was willing to fight by asking Braid to go this morning at camp. Although he lost the fight at least he was back out a few shifts later playing the same way. I'd say out of the new Defenseman in camp he will be staying forsure.
Big Mac (as I've taken to calling Mackenzie Stewart) has been one of the nicest surprises at camp this year. As has Osczeski.

I hope both will make the team.

Sad to hear about Miller. Wouldn't surprise me to hear that he's on the shelf for a while.

Good to see Lange get 2 goals, he's also a favourite of mine for the team this year.

Thanks for scrimmage update, as well...I cannot make any of the games today and I'm missing, horribly, the opportunity to see the prospects before they go back to Midget/JHL.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I see Corbin didn't figure in any of the scoring this am...how did he play defensively?

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

Corbin played solid Defense both scrimmages.
He's paired with the weakest D- partner on team yellow and did a nice job.

[Wapitikev]

Corbin played solid Defense both scrimmages.
He's paired with the weakest D- partner on team yellow and did a nice job.

So he's playing with Baer, then?

Maybe there's hope for him yet.

I made it to the game, tonight...looks like he's playing with Verrall now.

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

Played with verrall all weekend so far. Lange is playing with Baer now - he played with Wasylenko in the 1st 2 Games.
Corbin got a nice assist in the 1st, then played erratically in the 2nd.
Couple of bad giveaways and gave up a break-away.
It would be nice to see everyone mix up the D-partners
and see how they fare paired with someone new.

[puckdad]

2nd has been the Sloppiest period of hockey so far.
You can tell who is in shape and who's legs are finished.

[Wapitikev]

2nd has been the Sloppiest period of hockey so far.
You can tell who is in shape and who's legs are finished.
Agreed...at least the rookies had an excuse...6 games in 4 days going all-out to try to make the team.

I think this was the first game that Draisaitl hasn't scored a goal.

And it was great to see Miller back on the ice AND I hear he scored the first goal of the game, no less!

Parenteau looked strong in the third but lost in the shootout. McBride looked human on one goal in the second half...but only one bad goal in 6 games is amazing no matter how you slice it.

Good on Danyluk getting the shootout winner.

One more day before final cuts...

I'll make my predictions tomorrow night.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

i am a little disapointed with how the 96s have progressed. parentau and myer are the closest to whl ready imo. parentau has out played holewenko pretty badly and deserves to make the club out of camp. if myer also stays there would be no rush on gardiner or vanstone.

[Raiderfan8]

That's funny because I don't find Meyer has really done anything to make the team. Bigger kid and good skater but not physical. Kinda reminds me of a Brock Balson. In saying that tho Gardiner and Vanstone have done nothing to impress in main camp either.( I agree with you there ) . I personally feel this is due to having back to back camps ! Seven ice times in four days is probably pretty hard on these young men. Obviously the decision to keep the 16 year olds will be made during the 3 or 4 exhibition games.

Looking forward to the inter-squad game at 1PM !

[Sttop]

Here's my prediction

Siemens
Parenteau

Morrissey
Ruopp
Hodder
Gwinner
Lang
Waseylenko
Stewart

Mcneill
Bardaro
Draisaitl
Winther
Knutsen
Danyluk
Braid
Mcveigh
Perreaux
Santucci
Meyer
Mahura
Oscveski

[Wapitikev]

That's funny because I don't find Meyer has really done anything to make the team. Bigger kid and good skater but not physical. Kinda reminds me of a Brock Balson. In saying that tho Gardiner and Vanstone have done nothing to impress in main camp either.( I agree with you there ) . I personally feel this is due to having back to back camps ! Seven ice times in four days is probably pretty hard on these young men. Obviously the decision to keep the 16 year olds will be made during the 3 or 4 exhibition games.

Looking forward to the inter-squad game at 1PM !
Agreed about the level of tiredness.

Gardiner is an undeveloped Maylan. He will look much better when he has some rest and regular linemates to pass the puck to (his best shifts were when he was feeding Draisaitl).

Vanstone is and undeveloped Braid. But he needs time at this level to develop into a Braid-like player.

While we are on Braid, he has impressed me this camp with his increased scoring talent...people scoffed when I had him on the 2nd line this fall, but at this point he's looking like a stronger candidate for that than Danyluk is.

Meyer I haven't quite pegged him yet...he's closest to Perreaux...flashes of talent and a big frame but not really sure how to use either on a regular basis. Since we already have Perreaux then we may not need his clone.

Agreed that Parenteau has outplayed Holowenko at camp. Problem is, if he backs-up this year, does he project good enough to be a starter next year, @ 17, when McBride comes up?

Possible, but unlikely.

On the other hand, being the starter for the Contacts this year will let him get an idea of what the pressures of being a starter are...but that's not the same as starting regularly at this level.

Again possible but unlikely.

If I had to choose, I guess I'd take the selfish way out and keep Parenteau here as backup and let him get used to shooters at this level...and hope that the mass exodus of talent from the WHL, next September (when the 2012 AND 2013 NHL draft classes all move up) makes it easier on whoever gets the starting job next fall.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Here's my prediction

Siemens
Parenteau

Morrissey
Ruopp
Hodder
Gwinner
Lang
Waseylenko
Stewart

Mcneill
Bardaro
Draisaitl
Winther
Knutsen
Danyluk
Braid
Mcveigh
Perreaux
Santucci
Meyer
Mahura
Oscveski
A good list in almost all regards...not a big Knutsen fan but we'll see. I particularly like the fact that Corbin is not on your list.

But I don't think that the squad has to be down to 23 (I think you have 22) until the end of pre-season. Assuming they can carry 27 for pre-season, I predict they'll add Gardiner, Vanstone, Dea, and, unfortunately, Corbin [Wolverton]. If they can carry more than that they'll likely add either McMann or Leuken.

Gennaro, Miller, Ghule and McBride are all excellent (and the team is in good shape for next fall with them coming up) but I don't think they'll keep any 15yos for this pre-season.

As far as the regular season goes, I think we are stuck with Corbin and I'd be very surprised if one of Waseylenko/Hodder stays instead of him.

Regular season forwards will likely have Gardiner as one of the 14, and I'm not completely sold on Meyer yet..he's tied in my mind with Vanstone, McMann and Leuken.

Overall, though our lists are almost identical.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

some players reassigned. no real suprises listed be
sides naybe Dea

[Raiderfan8]

Where you see the list of releases?

[Sttop]

there is no list

[Wapitikev]

Overall camp has left the impression that (again this year) we will be a high scoring team with lots of goals against...hopefully half as many as last year, though.

PANow reports that Middaugh, Baer and Johnson were re-assigned prior to the game (which explains their absence from the rosters).

By my reckoning, Riley Guenther scored on his own goal and, after getting benched for the rest of that period, he took a penalty on his first shift in the next period. His chances of making the team are likely shrinking.

On the other hand, Reid Gardiner had his best game last night. I've never bought into the "generational talent" that Gardiner has been labelled with (he's too one-dimensional right now to project that well). However, he is a talented player...like Maylan his passing makes linemates better. Gardiner @ 20 will be better than Maylan was, last year...the question is how much.

He looked right at home with Osczeski and Gennaro. They were the second best group on the ice. Too bad that Gennaro doesn't turn 16 until March 30th, 2013...maybe we can use him in the playoffs.

In the meantime, I can't wait to see Braid or Perreaux with the Gardiner and Osczeski. Danyluk would be a third choice.

Other players turning 16 early-on next year: Nick McBride turns 16 on January 11th. Whoever is the backup by the trade deadline better be looking over their shoulder.

Of course that will leave us with McBride and Parenteau battling for the starter's spot next fall. A far better problem to have than in past years.

Another player to watch for next winter is Miller...he turns 16 on February 25th. Although, at that point, our top 12 better already have us making the playoffs (barring injuries, of course).

Back to the line-chemistry last night...Winther, McNeil and Draisaitl did not seem to be clicking at all...they put up points but were not as dominant as one would expect those three to be. After some much deserved rest, Leon should return to early-camp form. Here's hoping that line gels in the next three weeks.

Which leaves who on Bardero's line? Who cares. Whoever he was playing with last night was the best line on the ice. Someone will win the lottery here. Likely either Braid, Perreaux, Danyluk (hoping for him to break out but didn't show as much as I'd have liked), Knutsen (= stupid penalties, not my fave) or McVeigh.

That gives the team three legitimate scoring lines. Not a bad situation, as long as they all see ice (let us hope that last years focus on only 2 lines is a thing of the past).

On to Defense, I was very high on Waseylenko coming into camp...he has not lived up to my expectations. He is on the bubble with Big Mac playing so well.

If Dea was re-assigned it will be interesting to see who stayed...he got an assist last night and played better than some.

...waiting for the press release.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

excited to see how "big mack" progresses. word is that he has only pkayed hockey for 5 yeats. glad he made the team

[Sttop]

here is what is left on defence from my understanding

corbin
morrissey
ruopp
lang
guenther
hodder
gwinner
stewart
waseylenko
guhle

i would expect the bottom 7 will play against the blades

[lordstanley]

here is what is left on defence from my understanding

corbin
morrissey
ruopp
lang
guenther
hodder
gwinner
stewart
waseylenko
guhle

i would expect the bottom 7 will play against the blades

What normally happens every season is PA starts a more vet lineup at home vs us then we do the same on the back half of the home and home and PA will play more rookies that night

[Wapitikev]

excited to see how "big mack" progresses. word is that he has only pkayed hockey for 5 yeats. glad he made the team
12yo? Sort of flies in the face of traditional hockey logic (start early practice forever). The kid must be smart and have some exceptional talent to adapt that quickly.

Good modification on the nickname...we don't want any copyright infringement.

Heh.

-Wapitikev

[Raiderfan8]

Raiders Pre Season Squad : Line up can be viewed on PAnow .

Goal
Luke Siemens (20)

Cole Holowenko (19)

Rylan Parenteau (16)



Defense
Antoine Corbin (20)

Harrison Ruopp (19)

Matt Waseylenko (19)

Zach Hodder (19)

Sawyer Lange (18)

Riley Guenther (18)

Shayne Gwinner (18)

Josh Morrissey (17)

MacKenzie Stewart (17)

Brendan Guhle (15)



Forwards
Anthony Bardero (20)

Jonas Knutsen (19)

Mark McNeill (19)

Mike Winther (18)

Shane Danyluk (18)

Jesse Knowler (18)

Chance Braid (18)

Carson Perreaux (18)

Joey Santucci (18)

Logan McVeigh (18)

Luke Mahura (17)

Leon Draisaitl (17)

Reid Gardiner (16)

Tim Vanstone (16)

Spencer Meyer (16)

Matteo Gennaro (15)

[Wapitikev]

Raiders Pre Season Squad : Line up can be viewed on PAnow .

Goal
Luke Siemens (20)

Cole Holowenko (19)

Rylan Parenteau (16)



Defense
Antoine Corbin (20)

Harrison Ruopp (19)

Matt Waseylenko (19)

Zach Hodder (19)

Sawyer Lange (18)

Riley Guenther (18)

Shayne Gwinner (18)

Josh Morrissey (17)

MacKenzie Stewart (17)

Brendan Guhle (15)



Forwards
Anthony Bardero (20)

Jonas Knutsen (19)

Mark McNeill (19)

Mike Winther (18)

Shane Danyluk (18)

Jesse Knowler (18)

Chance Braid (18)

Carson Perreaux (18)

Joey Santucci (18)

Logan McVeigh (18)

Luke Mahura (17)

Leon Draisaitl (17)

Reid Gardiner (16)

Tim Vanstone (16)

Spencer Meyer (16)

Matteo Gennaro (15)
How, exactly, does knowler stay and not Osczeski?

Something's wrong with that picture.

-Wapitikev

[mr bo dangles]

Where is Mr Yaremchuk ?

[lordstanley]

Yaremchuk didn't report to camp...not sure if he was injured or indifferent. No explanation was given in the media.

-Wapitikev

So Yaremchuk a no show same goes with Quinny and Grudny ? yeesh :dead:

[Wapitikev]

So Yaremchuk a no show same goes with Quinny and Grudny ? yeesh :dead:
Quinney's the only loss in that sentence.

The rest are "Meh".

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

yaremchuk was there for practices. quinney didnt come for family reasons. grundy thinks he has ncaa options

[lordstanley]

Quinney's the only loss in that sentence.

The rest are "Meh".

-Wapitikev

I figured as much Grundy is a goon buy looking at his number and youtube fights

Yaremchuk i didn't know much about

[puckdad]

Lance aggravated a shoulder during the 1st practice that originally was injured several weeks ago at Minto camp.

[Wapitikev]

Must have been a rough camp, Seaman was injured there as well.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Still cannot believe that Osczevski, the highest scoring forward at main camp (5 goals, 2 assists) was released back to the Mintos.

He had as many goals as Bardero for crying out loud.

Certainly hope there's a very, very good explanation that is still forthcoming.

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

S#$+ Happens
Every player there trying to make an impression
The Minto camp was not any rougher than any others they have held in recent years

[Raiderfan8]

I am suprised with Knowler as well.

[Sttop]

oscevski should be in knowlers spot forsure.... #screwedover ! . why have a camp if your not taking the best players

[Wapitikev]

I don't care whose spot he takes...not to keep him for the exhibition games is a complete travesty.

[shaking head in disbelief]

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

I wouldn't be surprised if they listed Oscevski but didnt want to burn his College eligibility by signing him and playing preseason. I agree he is the feel-good story of Raider Camp and a lesson to all players of the value of solid, hard work ethic. He deserves to be there because of his Never-Say-Never attitude. I'd love to see him and a handful of others like him suit up and inspire the whole team to adopt the same attitude.

[Wapitikev]

I wouldn't be surprised if they listed Oscevski but didnt want to burn his College eligibility by signing him and playing preseason. I agree he is the feel-good story of Raider Camp and a lesson to all players of the value of solid, hard work ethic. He deserves to be there because of his Never-Say-Never attitude. I'd love to see him and a handful of others like him suit up and inspire the whole team to adopt the same attitude.
I suppose it could be at his request that he stay with the Mintos...he's going into grade 12 this fall based just on his birthdate.

It just seems a little out of character considering how hard he worked for the last 6 days.

What I'm actually hoping is that PANow got it wrong.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

...and I'm sure they have listed him.

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

He's just up the hall if they want to have him come to practice and still maintain his eligibility. He'd be a perfect candidate for a College Hockey Scholarship.

[Wapitikev]

(perhaps) Too true.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

...but Osczevski's also a perfect candidate to score 30 goals for the Raiders this season as a 17yo on a line with Gardiner and either Pereaux, Danyluk or Mahura.

Next topic: what happened to McVeigh? He didn't record a point in any of the 4 scrimmages. Whu?!

Camp scoring during 4 scrimmages:

Forwards
Chance Braid (18) 3G, 3A, 6pts
Matteo Gennaro (15) 2G, 4A, 6pts
Anthony Bardero (20) 5G, 0A, 5pts
Leon Draisaitl (17) 4G, 1A, 5pts
Mark McNeill (19) 1G, 4A, 5pts
Jonas Knutsen (19) 1G, 3A, 4pts
Luke Mahura (17) 0G, 4A, 4pts
Carson Perreaux (18) 2G, 1A, 3pts
Joey Santucci (18) 0G, 3A, 3pts
Spencer Meyer (16) 0G, 3A, 3pts
Jesse Knowler (18) 0G, 3A, 3pts
Shane Danyluk (18) 2G, 0A, 2pts
Reid Gardiner (16) 1G, 1A, 2pts
Tim Vanstone (16) 1G, 1A, 2pts
Mike Winther (18) 1G, 1A, 2pts
Logan McVeigh (18) 0G, 0A, 0pts

Defense
Sawyer Lange (18) 2G, 1A, 3pts
Brendan Guhle (15) 0G, 3A, 3pts
Josh Morrissey (17) 1G, 1A, 2pts
Antoine Corbin (20) 1G, 1A, 2pts
Harrison Ruopp (19) 0G, 2A, 2pts
Matt Waseylenko (19) 0G, 1A, 1pt
Zach Hodder (19) 0G, 1A, 1pt
Riley Guenther (18) 0G, 0A, 0pts
Shayne Gwinner (18) 0G, 0A, 0pts
MacKenzie Stewart (17) ? (the 2 Stewarts were not differentiated on the scoring summary)

Cheers,

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Just looking at the roster and I'm surprised how lean it is.

After 15yo Gennaro is reassigned, there's only 15 forwards...that's only one cut to get down to the 14 we normally carry in the regular season. (still wish we could add Osczevski, though)

And, after Guhle is reassigned, there's only 9 D-men remaining, so only 2 cuts away from our regular roster size.

One cut to the goalies and we are at 23.

That's pretty lean compared to Saskatoon (34 players still, 5 of them goalies).

Good thing? I think so.

Bring on the golf tournament on Wednesday!

-Wapitikev

[Bystander]

Seeing the points that the remaining players had during the camp is great and a reflection of either how good or bad the defense and goaltending was, from what I heard and read, goaltending could be a issue this season. If you would like a good guage of how each player contributed, a list of plus/minus by player would a better indication of thier contribution.

[Western Elite]

Just looking at the roster and I'm surprised how lean it is.

After 15yo Gennaro is reassigned, there's only 15 forwards...that's only one cut to get down to the 14 we normally carry in the regular season. (still wish we could add Osczevski, though)

And, after Guhle is reassigned, there's only 9 D-men remaining, so only 2 cuts away from our regular roster size.

One cut to the goalies and we are at 23.

That's pretty lean compared to Saskatoon (34 players still, 5 of them goalies).

Good thing? I think so.

Bring on the golf tournament on Wednesday!

-Wapitikev

That is a pretty lean roster the Prince Albert Raiders have at this point. I don't understand why they didn't keep a few more of the young kids around for some pre-season action! The way I understand it is that the Saskatoon Blades are dressing 4-5 vets tops for this weekends games. While it looks like we'll see primarily the starting lineup for Prince Albert

[chalk_one_up]

How much are the exhibition games?

[Wapitikev]

How much are the exhibition games?$10

[lordstanley]

That is a pretty lean roster the Prince Albert Raiders have at this point. I don't understand why they didn't keep a few more of the young kids around for some pre-season action! The way I understand it is that the Saskatoon Blades are dressing 4-5 vets tops for this weekends games. While it looks like we'll see primarily the starting lineup for Prince Albert

It's not the Bruno way he will never develope his young guns just liek the regular season his top forwards will get off to a great start then tucker out with 30 games to go cause he will not play his 3rd and 4th lines nearly enough no chance to develope hopefully steve young has more say

[Wapitikev]

It's not the Bruno way he will never develope his young guns just liek the regular season his top forwards will get off to a great start then tucker out with 30 games to go cause he will not play his 3rd and 4th lines nearly enough no chance to develope hopefully steve young has more sayHmmn...seems to me that his top forwards started crappy last season and played just fine in the last 30 games (during which time they averaged almost 3 goals a game)...it was the defense that killed the team last year, not tired forwards.

As well, almost 40% of the 16 forwards are 17 and under aka young guns.

You may be exaggerating a tad to make you point.

Although I am, indeed, sick to death of paying to see 4 lines and only getting to see two.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Seeing the points that the remaining players had during the camp is great and a reflection of either how good or bad the defense and goaltending was, from what I heard and read, goaltending could be a issue this season. If you would like a good guage of how each player contributed, a list of plus/minus by player would a better indication of thier contribution.Unfortunately, +/- stats were not available. Plus I find that stat is more meaningful (for player by player comparison) when all players have the same goaltender.

Of course corsi, relative corsi and shooting percentage were also not available.

Goaltending was only an issue for one of our tenders...but he will either be our backup or released/traded so I'm not too concerned in that regard.

Defense will be improved this year but will still only be average for the league...no "impenetrable wall of Raiders" to overcome this season.

...next season that will change. There are some very good 15yo D-men waiting in the wings, and then there's McBride...the best tender at camp.

-Wapitikev

[Bystander]

The defense in the past couple of years has had a few individuals that has not had the skating ability that I think are in this years crop of dmen. You need defense with agility in skating and getting to the wall or corners first and not second only looking for the big hit, then taking foolish penalties. The old saying rings true, "Take the hit to make the play". If the Raider dmen get to the puck first and make the simple passing to the skilled forwards, who should know what to do with it, the Dzone regroup and out, will be quick and seamless. The time of big lumbering dmen, only there for the odd big hit and fight are over. Dmen with speed and skill are need.

[Western Elite]

In talking to a few people today and in all my conversations, it seems as though the general consensus is that the Raiders will finish as high as 4th behind Edmonton, Saskatoon and Calgary. The common thought is that they will battle with Moose Jaw, Swift Current and Red Deer for the 4-7 spots.

My brief thoughts are that the Raiders have some high end offensive talents like McNeill, Bardaro and Winter who should score in the 35 goal range, give or take and put up over 80 points. We have all seen that with Raider teams before right?

The Defence has a player who fans haven't seen in quite some time as Josh Morrissey is the real deal. He will be an NHL first round player for the draft and a high end offensive contributor with grit. Harrison Ruopp is one of the better stay at home dmen in his 19 yr old. The problems and question marks are many after that though.

Can Siemens step up and prove Moose Jaw wrong for trading him and sitting him in the playoffs? Time will tell.

Bottom line is that Prince Albert has good high end players and not a lot of depth but are heading upwards in the standings.

I would caution fans not to get too excited about any pre-season success playing veterans vs. rookies though!

[BillyBean]

The defense in the past couple of years has had a few individuals that has not had the skating ability that I think are in this years crop of dmen. You need defense with agility in skating and getting to the wall or corners first and not second only looking for the big hit, then taking foolish penalties. The old saying rings true, "Take the hit to make the play". If the Raider dmen get to the puck first and make the simple passing to the skilled forwards, who should know what to do with it, the Dzone regroup and out, will be quick and seamless. The time of big lumbering dmen, only there for the odd big hit and fight are over. Dmen with speed and skill are need.

I agree that D-Stewart was a pleasant camp surprise based on his physical stature alone. What do people think about his lack of elite level experience in previous years? I note that he played previously for the Edge school - which plays a limited number of games and had his previous year in the Heritage Junior Hockey League (Junior B) and his time was split between 2 teams. Was Midget AAA/AAAA not an option the last 2 years - why did he not play at these levels? How will this previous experience translate to an 72 game WHL schedule? Is he there to take an enforcer role (difficult as a 17 yo)? I wish "big Mac" the best but can't help but think in a year where the Raiders need to make the playoffs his development might have been better at the Junior A level.

[Bystander]

Other than being big and fighting, what does he have to offer? Did not Chance get the better of him in camp? The mind set of having big bruising Dmen is old school. Speed and skill on the back end will kill opponents. When in doubt, take skill.

[Sttop]

He played 6 or 7 games and I only saw him get beat to the net once. He has great hands and is a great passer. His foot speed isn't great , but he didn't look out of place. Stewart had a fantastic camp and deserves to be here.

[BillyBean]

He played 6 or 7 games and I only saw him get beat to the net once. He has great hands and is a great passer. His foot speed isn't great , but he didn't look out of place. Stewart had a fantastic camp and deserves to be here.

I think he is great prospect that deserves to be on the PA Raiders protected list and was a great surprise at camp. My question still stands - Would his hockey development and future potential benefit to the Raiders be better suited playing as a 17 yo in the Alberta Major Midget League or AJHL than an 8th defenseman on the Raiders in a year where the team must make the playoffs.

Let's face it, if Stewart was 6'0" and 185 lbs, we would not be having this conversation with his current skill set as he would be on the team. There is a reason (and I don't think it was politics) that he is not playing in the AJHL or Alberta Midget League. I want to see him succeed but I think this was a bit of a knee jerk reaction w.r.t. what is best for his development. Why not give him a spot with the Mintos and call him up to play some games? Can you imagine him cruising the blue line in the SMAAAHL!

I like to deal in facts. In the few games (3 main and 1 intrasquad) I saw his positive % of passing was about 67%. The average of a WHL D-man is 75-80%. In the games I saw during even strength rushes against (1v1 and 2v2) he was beaten wide 5-6 times. He hits hard in the corners but his contacts do not lead to puck recovery by himself or his own team mates. Positionally in the defensive zone he has a lot to learn. His only fight (albeit against a experienced fighter) in rookie camp game was not successful.

His potential is immense! But on a team that already has two quality 95 Dmen and many other older Dmen with WHL experience, a year maturing would have been better. But since the decision has been made I hope the Raiders pour every ounce of time into his development that he deserves. Most importantly, I hope (but doubt) that he will get the ice time to implement what he is taught in practice. I still think he would look great in a Mintos uniform.

[Wapitikev]

I agree that D-Stewart was a pleasant camp surprise based on his physical stature alone. What do people think about his lack of elite level experience in previous years? I note that he played previously for the Edge school - which plays a limited number of games and had his previous year in the Heritage Junior Hockey League (Junior B) and his time was split between 2 teams. Was Midget AAA/AAAA not an option the last 2 years - why did he not play at these levels? How will this previous experience translate to an 72 game WHL schedule? Is he there to take an enforcer role (difficult as a 17 yo)? I wish "big Mac" the best but can't help but think in a year where the Raiders need to make the playoffs his development might have been better at the Junior A level.
Welcome to the board Moneyball...you'll like it here.

It's hard to amass elite level experience when you only started playing organized hockey 5 years ago, learning the game from basically scratch, as you go.

As reported here (http://www.panow.com/node/245533) Mackenzie Stewart was born deaf. After a number of surgeries to correct the defect he began playing at 12.

He didn't play midget because he didn't play bantam...he was still learning the sport.

For a kid to become so good so quickly he not only has to be talented he has to be smart.

He's not supposed to be an enforcer, just a big strong 17yo kid who is still developing (quickly) with a long reach who plays smart and doesn't (so far) take too many dumb penalties (unlike most of our 19yo d-men last year). Despite not being a fighter, he didn't back-down from Braid, so he has guts to go with his size.

Cut him some slack and we'll all likely be pleasantly surprised by Christmas as to how much he doesn't suck, particularly after a few months of coaching by Dave Manson and advice from Ruopp.

Sttop is right...he may not be a super-fast skater but he played all 7 rookie and main-camp scrimmages in 5 days, plus practices, and did not seem overly tired at the end of the Sunday game. In fact he looked better than Waseylenko most shifts during main camp and no worse than Hodder, both of whom are 19yos and were expected to make the team.

He earned his spot to get here...let's see how he does in the pre-season.

(of course Osczevski looked good too and he was already cut, but I digress)

Ruopp and Gwinner will be the tough-guys...Gwinner had 25 minutes in fighting majors last season (in 50-some games) for Moose Jaw and won all but one of them, most of them versus older and bigger opponents...more than one of them for protecting Siemans, his goalie.

Since Guhle can't play this full-season and 6 of the 8 other competitors for the defenseman spots are 18 and older, it will be good to have another 17yo prospect (besides Morrissey) developing on the back-end.

...particularly if he can out-play an older player to get the job.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I think he is great prospect that deserves to be on the PA Raiders protected list and was a great surprise at camp. My question still stands - Would his hockey development and future potential benefit to the Raiders be better suited playing as a 17 yo in the Alberta Major Midget League or AJHL than an 8th defenseman on the Raiders in a year where the team must make the playoffs.

Let's face it, if Stewart was 6'0" and 185 lbs, we would not be having this conversation with his current skill set as he would be on the team. There is a reason (and I don't think it was politics) that he is not playing in the AJHL or Alberta Midget League. I want to see him succeed but I think this was a bit of a knee jerk reaction w.r.t. what is best for his development. Why not give him a spot with the Mintos and call him up to play some games? Can you imagine him cruising the blue line in the SMAAAHL!

I like to deal in facts. In the few games (3 main and 1 intrasquad) I saw his positive % of passing was about 67%. The average of a WHL D-man is 75-80%. In the games I saw during even strength rushes against (1v1 and 2v2) he was beaten wide 5-6 times. He hits hard in the corners but his contacts do not lead to puck recovery by himself or his own team mates. Positionally in the defensive zone he has a lot to learn. His only fight (albeit against a experienced fighter) in rookie camp game was not successful.

His potential is immense! But on a team that already has two quality 95 Dmen and many other older Dmen with WHL experience, a year maturing would have been better. But since the decision has been made I hope the Raiders pour every ounce of time into his development that he deserves. Most importantly, I hope (but doubt) that he will get the ice time to implement what he is taught in practice. I still think he would look great in a Mintos uniform.Development will be important to his future...but he is obviously a fast learner.

And just because he is on the pre-season roster does not mean he will make the team...Osczevski is proof enough that raw talent alone will not suffice.

Let's see how he does.

Who else besides Stewart & Morrissey is a 95, BTW?

Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

I wont be in PA tomorrow for the Blades raiders game comments would be awesome i dont care if we win or lose obviously i just want to know the standouts thanks in advance

[BillyBean]

Sorry, my bad. I keep thinking Lange is a 95 but indeed is a 94.

I would have liked to have seen Osczevski in pre-season. I understand that you have to "pamper" the 97 draft picks but the fact is they cannot be major contributors to the Raiders this year so might as well give opportunities to the guys that earned the chance in camp such as the 95 Osczevski.

I'm in favour of giving the guys that could make your team next year a good look in pre-season (95's, 96's and 97's) for at least 1 or 2 games. I would have taken Osczevski, Gardiner, Vanstone and Meyer on F and would have given a chance to Finnson and Verrall on D. Please correct me if I'm wrong but next year PA will lose Corbin and have 3 20 yo D men. You probably only want to keep 1 20 yo D man. This means 2 will have to be released or traded which leaves some holes on D. As well, Morrisey will go in the 1st round of NHL draft - so who knows where he'll end up next year. Might as well find out what the D men in the system can do. One or 2 games would not interfere with the decision making process - look around the league at other teams in exhibition Guhle, Lange and Stewart +/- Morrisey will be a good start.

PA looks very impressive up front this year. They could be real solid in net if they keep Parenteau. The D will be steady with Morrisey being a bona fide stud. I think 3rd or 4th in the East.

[lordstanley]

Sorry, my bad. I keep thinking Lange is a 95 but indeed is a 94.

I would have liked to have seen Osczevski in pre-season. I understand that you have to "pamper" the 97 draft picks but the fact is they cannot be major contributors to the Raiders this year so might as well give opportunities to the guys that earned the chance in camp such as the 95 Osczevski.

I'm in favour of giving the guys that could make your team next year a good look in pre-season (95's, 96's and 97's) for at least 1 or 2 games. I would have taken Osczevski, Gardiner, Vanstone and Meyer on F and would have given a chance to Finnson and Verrall on D. Please correct me if I'm wrong but next year PA will lose Corbin and have 3 20 yo D men. You probably only want to keep 1 20 yo D man. This means 2 will have to be released or traded which leaves some holes on D. As well, Morrisey will go in the 1st round of NHL draft - so who knows where he'll end up next year. Might as well find out what the D men in the system can do. One or 2 games would not interfere with the decision making process - look around the league at other teams in exhibition Guhle, Lange and Stewart +/- Morrisey will be a good start.

PA looks very impressive up front this year. They could be real solid in net if they keep Parenteau. The D will be steady with Morrisey being a bona fide stud. I think 3rd or 4th in the East.

very good post i agree with it all

[puckdad]

Regarding Stewart, I agree with most of Billy Beane's assessment of his ability. I even think BB was generous in his comments. Right now, his only asset is his size. That's like saying Rita McNeil should enter the Miss Universe Pageant because she would do well in the talent section.

Beaten to the net only once in 6 or 7 games? Really?
I saw he was constantly on the back side of his man chasing him to the net.

He looked ok in rookie camp where he was given a wide berth because of his size, but in main camp, he had didn't have that luxury. Slow feet, slow to read, slow to react, slow decision making. He simply does not think the game well enough to play WHL hockey.

PA has a history of taking big kids of limited hockey ability and trying to
Make them into fighters and enforcers. Ashton Hewson was 6'5" and ended up quitting the team, albeit for tragic personal reasons, Austin Connor quit when he was traded to Vancouver last year because his heart was not in it. You can't take a kid and ask him to be something that he's not.

Raiders cannot afford to keep him as a 7th or even 8th D-man this year because they simply have to post a winning season. Where can you give him any minutes if you're battling scrambling and clawing to win every game you can? Make him a fighter and he will get seriously hurt. Can you imagine him trying to take on McIlrath or Siemens?

Really, it's a touching human interest story, and I hope he continues his development into a hockey player if that's what he truly wants, but let's hit the ice come opening day with the best hockey players and best team possible. :karate:

[Wapitikev]

Regarding Stewart, I agree with most of Billy Beane's assessment of his ability. I even think BB was generous in his comments. Right now, his only asset is his size. That's like saying Rita McNeil should enter the Miss Universe Pageant because she would do well in the talent section.

Beaten to the net only once in 6 or 7 games? Really?
I saw he was constantly on the back side of his man chasing him to the net.

He looked ok in rookie camp where he was given a wide berth because of his size, but in main camp, he had didn't have that luxury. Slow feet, slow to read, slow to react, slow decision making. He simply does not think the game well enough to play WHL hockey.

PA has a history of taking big kids of limited hockey ability and trying to
Make them into fighters and enforcers. Ashton Hewson was 6'5" and ended up quitting the team, albeit for tragic personal reasons, Austin Connor quit when he was traded to Vancouver last year because his heart was not in it. You can't take a kid and ask him to be something that he's not.

Raiders cannot afford to keep him as a 7th or even 8th D-man this year because they simply have to post a winning season. Where can you give him any minutes if you're battling scrambling and clawing to win every game you can? Make him a fighter and he will get seriously hurt. Can you imagine him trying to take on McIlrath or Siemens?

Really, it's a touching human interest story, and I hope he continues his development into a hockey player if that's what he truly wants, but let's hit the ice come opening day with the best hockey players and best team possible. :karate:
If he sucks that bad in pre-season (I don't remember seeing him sucking that bad in main camp), then he will not make the team.

Problem solved.

Honestly, I don't care one way or the other, as long as we don't keep older kids who play worse than he does.

And yes, asking him to fight when he only started playing hockey 5 years ago would be stupid.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

...but let's hit the ice come opening day with the best hockey players and best team possible. :karate:
Agreed, which is what camp and pre-season are for; seeing whose best. Those who are not, get to leave.

...which is why I still don't understand the Osczevski cut for the pre-season...one more forward for 4 more games wouldn't have destroyed the team's chances to start the season strong, particularly if he continued to show that he was better than only one of the umpteen 18yos that are still on the squad.

I could argue against Stewart remaining if any of the other d-men that left had outplayed him, but I can't argue that they were better. Maaaaybe Dea, but that was a saw-off...but in that case Dea should have stayed.

Stewart played better than Waseylenko, and Waseylenko is still here, so Stewart should be as well, until that changes (during the 4 pre-season games, perhaps)

Stewart will earn his way off the team if he doesn't impress, don't worry.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

so ummm someone wanna tell me who (besides morrissey ) has played better then stewart ? gwinner ? lang? waseylenko ? the only dman that stood out to me was morrissey. so i dont think anyone should worry about anything except maybe wgo else will step up

[BillyBean]

so ummm someone wanna tell me who (besides morrissey ) has played better then stewart ? gwinner ? lang? waseylenko ? the only dman that stood out to me was morrissey. so i dont think anyone should worry about anything except maybe wgo else will step up

For those D vets who are enduring their 3rd-4th training camps and exhibition seasons, I tend not to get too excited about their play in camp and pre-season. It is their experience that is key as the season progresses! I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiments but the honeymoon period will soon be over for rookies and vets and it will be time to show what they are made of.

However, experience and skill of the vets will make the transition for those who have played high level hockey much easier than for those who have not. As I have said before I hope all the rookies (15, 16 or 17 yo) have success with the Raiders and develop if they make the team. I think the transition will be easier for someone who has played at the Midget AAA or Junior A level.

Any predictions for the game tonight against the Blades?

[Western Elite]

As for predictions for the game tonight, who cares!

It is all about putting some of the kids in situations where they can excel.

The Blades are dressing theirr #3 and #4 goalies in Davies and Alahouf tonight and dressing 3 rookie dmen and half the forwards are rookies as well. Nothing like the Mem Cup caliber team you will see opening weekend.

[Wapitikev]

so ummm someone wanna tell me who (besides morrissey ) has played better then stewart ? gwinner ? lang? waseylenko ? the only dman that stood out to me was morrissey. so i dont think anyone should worry about anything except maybe wgo else will step upActually, I thought Lange's camp was a big improvement over his abilities last winter...he made some flubs but not as many as Corbin, Guenther, etc.

Morrissey, makes even good d-men look average, but Ruopp, Lange and Stewart were on the higher side of average than the rest, for my part.

We'll see who tries the hardest and who tires the easiest between tonight and the 15th.

Lets get real, though...our defense will be shockingly average this year.

-Wapitikev

[BillyBean]

As for predictions for the game tonight, who cares!

It is all about putting some of the kids in situations where they can excel.

The Blades are dressing theirr #3 and #4 goalies in Davies and Alahouf tonight and dressing 3 rookie dmen and half the forwards are rookies as well. Nothing like the Mem Cup caliber team you will see opening weekend.

Actually I was referring to who may step up and surprise us with their level of play!

[Wapitikev]

As for predictions for the game tonight, who cares!

It is all about putting some of the kids in situations where they can excel.

The Blades are dressing theirr #3 and #4 goalies in Davies and Alahouf tonight and dressing 3 rookie dmen and half the forwards are rookies as well. Nothing like the Mem Cup caliber team you will see opening weekend.
Agreed on the predictions...the pre-season in any league is basically meaningless.

As long as some of the average d-men begin overachieving I don't really care what the final score is.

-Wapitikev

[BillyBean]

As for predictions for the game tonight, who cares!

It is all about putting some of the kids in situations where they can excel.

The Blades are dressing theirr #3 and #4 goalies in Davies and Alahouf tonight and dressing 3 rookie dmen and half the forwards are rookies as well. Nothing like the Mem Cup caliber team you will see opening weekend.

I saw the Blades roster for tonight. I like their mentality of playing as many rookies in their system as possible in exhibition (within reason). I think the Raiders could have done a similar plan by keeping a few more of their list players around for exhibition season (1-2 games). It can be very helpful at determining who to keep on your list or give you a benchmark as to where the player is at.

[lordstanley]

I saw the Blades roster for tonight. I like their mentality of playing as many rookies in their system as possible in exhibition (within reason). I think the Raiders could have done a similar plan by keeping a few more of their list players around for exhibition season (1-2 games). It can be very helpful at determining who to keep on your list or give you a benchmark as to where the player is at.

Raiders are starting a way more vet lineup cause they want to crank the Blades in a pre-season game and not see what there rookies have to offer

[BillyBean]

LOL

[Sttop]

heres a prediction. i expect a upgrade of a 20 year old dman before c
utdown day

[Wapitikev]

Raiders are starting a way more vet lineup cause they want to crank the Blades in a pre-season game and not see what there rookies have to offer
Heh.

You yourself said that's how it works every year between our teams for the pre-season...vets at home, rookies on the road.

We just have fewer rookies to play against you tomorrow night.

:cool:

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

heres a prediction. i expect a upgrade of a 20 year old dman before c
utdown day
We can dare to dream.

Then again, not having a third 20yo would be an upgrade on Corbin's defensive abilities.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Heh.

You yourself said that's how it works every year between our teams for the pre-season...vets at home, rookies on the road.

We just have fewer rookies to play against you tomorrow night.

:cool:

-Wapitikev

Haha i know i am just trying to get the rivalry going again it's been awhile

[Landon]

so ummm someone wanna tell me who (besides morrissey ) has played better then stewart ? gwinner ? lang? waseylenko ? the only dman that stood out to me was morrissey. so i dont think anyone should worry about anything except maybe wgo else will step up
I was at every practise so far, starting with rookie camp to main camp until now. Stewart Mckenzie is not WHL caliber from what I have witnessed. He is a big d-man and thats it. His skating needs major work and once he starts playing against WHL players they will keep on dumping it in his corner and pressuring him to either cough it up or take bad penalties. We need to have the best possible team we can this year. Stewart Mckenzie did not out play any veteran defenceman from what I witnessed. I am very happy for Mckenzie and its a great story about him only playing hockey for 5 years but i feel he is not WHL ready, maybe Junior A for a year first. I would think on the depth chart for defence as of whats left in camp: 1st Morrisey, 2nd Ruopp, 3rd Corbin, 4th Gwinner,5th Hodder,6th Waselenko,7th Guenther,8th Lange, 9th Mckenzie. If Quinney decides to come here that would be a bonus.

[Wapitikev]

I was at every practise so far, starting with rookie camp to main camp until now. Stewart Mckenzie is not WHL caliber from what I have witnessed. He is a big d-man and thats it. His skating needs major work and once he starts playing against WHL players they will keep on dumping it in his corner and pressuring him to either cough it up or take bad penalties. We need to have the best possible team we can this year. Stewart Mckenzie did not out play any veteran defenceman from what I witnessed. I am very happy for Mckenzie and its a great story about him only playing hockey for 5 years but i feel he is not WHL ready, maybe Junior A for a year first. I would think on the depth chart for defence as of whats left in camp: 1st Morrisey, 2nd Ruopp, 3rd Corbin, 4th Gwinner,5th Hodder,6th Waselenko,7th Guenther,8th Lange, 9th Mckenzie. If Quinney decides to come here that would be a bonus.
Lange was faster and had a better camp than either Guenther OR Waseylenko, but at least Waseylenko didn't knock the puck into his own net and then take a stupid penalty only a few shifts later, like Guenther did on Saturday.

And Corbin has trouble spelling defense, let alone playing it. How can you have him 3rd?

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Wapitikev's Defenseman depth chart after main camp

1 Morrissey
2 Ruopp
3 Guhle
4 Lange
5 Gwinner
6 Hodder
7 Mackenzie Stewart
8 Waseylenko
9 Corbin
10 Guenther

I'll re-post after next Thursday night's game.

Cheers,

Wapitikev

[BillyBean]

Corbin (or another acquistion 20 yo D man) will be gone next year. There are 3 19 yo D-men (Ruopp, Wasylenko, and Hodder) of which you can keep only one next year. That leaves Gwinner, Lange and Guenther as 94's. Morrisey will likely be gone next year depending on his season. That leaves Stewart and Guhle.

So Ruopp, Gwinner, Lange probably come back next year. Morrisey a question mark. Stewart a question mark. Guhle will play next year.

The Raiders sent Laquette (a drafted 96 D-man home before main camp), they sent Finsson (96 draft pick) and Verrall (96 list player) home after main camp without exhibition game exposure. I think Finnson and Verrall can both eventually play as 17 or 18 yo (good showing at Team West U17 camp).

It remains to be seen if Hobbs (97 draft pick) can play. Besides you wouldn't have two 97 D men on your roster anyway next year.

So where and how do you fill in the obvious holes for next year?

Forwards are in reasonable shape Gardiner, Vanstone, Meyer and Gennaro all look good to fill holes.

Goaltending looks great with Parenteau and McBride!

Go Raiders!

[Landon]

[QUOTE=Wapitikev;182611]Wapitikev's Defenseman depth chart after main camp

1 Morrissey
2 Ruopp
3 Guhle
4 Lange
5 Gwinner
6 Hodder
7 Mackenzie Stewart
8 Waseylenko
9 Corbin
10 Guenther

I'll re-post after next Thursday night's game.
I usually like reading your posts but this one makes no sense to me:
Guhle will be here as a 16 year old and he sure did not come in at number 3 in this camp. Lange at number 4 makes me laugh (no disrespect intended) I would think lange, Guenther and Mckenzie are on the bubble. Gwinner I thought was the most steady stay at home defenceman during camp. I understand you dont like Corbins play.....Last year he did not play half as good as the year before when he come from Kelowna. If he plays like he did when he was first traded here he will be fine.

[Sttop]

i wasent trying to say anything bad about any of the dmen. i just dont see how it hurts yo keep stewart. he has nice hands and is a good passer. heres my depth chart

1-morrissey
ruopp
hodder
gwinner


7-stewart.
i think the raiders still need to trade for a good #2 dman and a shutdown guy if they want to be in the hunt

[lordstanley]

Drat is the real deal so far it is drat 2 Blades 0

[Sttop]

If Leon plays top 2 lines he should be in the running for ROY. and not even draft eligible

[lordstanley]

6-0 Raiders now this is ugly even if it is pre-season yikes

[Wapitikev]

6-0 Raiders now this is ugly even if it is pre-season yikesRedeemed by two late, pretty goals. :)

A fair number of veteran scratches tonight. McNeill, Winther, Danyluk, McVeigh, Corbin, Guenther, Gwinner and Holowenko.

Leon D's goals are that more impressive considering that he had Knowler and Knutsen playing on his wing (aka holding him back). Would have liked to see Gardiner and/or Perreaux there instead.

Guhle got caught out of position more than Stewart did but Guhle tries more as well. At one point Stewart got upset at a guy and turned around and shoved him away...the guy was smaller (most players are) and flew off his feet a meter away...not a crushing hit but you have to want more of that edge from the guy who never seems to get angry.

Lang outplayed/skated both of them and his d-partner Waseylenko...3rd best D-man out there tonight.

I expect to see the score reversed tomorrow night when Holowenko plays 1/2 the game.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

If Leon plays top 2 lines he should be in the running for ROY. and not even draft eligible
Agreed...the real question is: will whatever line he plays on become the defacto second line, even if he is saddled with Knowler and Knutsen all season?

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Redeemed by two late, pretty goals. :)

A fair number of veteran scratches tonight. McNeill, Winther, Danyluk, McVeigh, Corbin, Guenther, Gwinner and Holowenko.

Leon D's goals are that more impressive considering that he had Knowler and Knutsen playing on his wing (aka holding him back). Would have liked to see Gardiner and/or Perreaux there instead.

Guhle got caught out of position more than Stewart did but Guhle tries more as well. At one point Stewart got upset at a guy and turned around and shoved him away...the guy was smaller (most players are) and flew off his feet a meter away...not a crushing hit but you have to want more of that edge from the guy who never seems to get angry.

Lang outplayed/skated both of them and his d-partner Waseylenko...3rd best D-man out there tonight.

I expect to see the score reversed tomorrow night when Holowenko plays 1/2 the game.

-Wapitikev
Good post Blades were without stransky nicholls walker sutter mccolgan deitz thrower cox makarov and moodie i wonder if both teams will dress a few more vets tomorrow or just wait till the last 2 pre-season games next weekend time will tell i guess was there a decent crowd out for the game

[AAAScout]

not a good crowd at all for the game.

I won't cut anyone down on here other than to say, for several players that are more than clearly on the bubble, they sure didn't do anything to wow their coaches or the fans that's for sure.

and I will say this so I lied, knutsen is a pure lazy dog of a hockey player and he would never ever play if it was my team!! He is BRUTAL!! never finishes a check and is useless, cut him loose!!

[Raiderfan8]

Was nice to get out to the rink last night! The crowd wasnt to bad for a preseason game but they never did announce the actual attendance. Here are my thoughts on some of the players:

Mackenze Stewart - Didn't make many mistakes and used his big body in the corners. His skating really needs some work to keep up with the speed but I think he is making his point to stay.

Sawyer Lange - Was actually really solid on the back end and played with an offensive mindset , jumping up on the odd rush.

Matt Waseylenko - Very solid on the back end. Stay at home defenceman that played well.

Zach Hodder - Size is an issue on the back. I think he is more of a power play kinda guy as he is good with the puck. I think he will be the odd d man out.

Joey Santucci - Really played well to start the game. Banged, crashed and made things happen. Didn't see him to much in the third period. I don't think he stays when you have 3 solid 16 year olds who can do the same job.

Luke Mahura - Made a point he is here to stay. Very good on the penalty kill and provided some offence.

Chance Braid - Kept up his play from main camp! Going to be fun to watch. ( Does anyone know if this is his draft year? I notice a late birthday on him)

Reid Gardiner, Spencer Meyer and Tim Vanstone - All three were very good. Crashing and banging on providing offence everytime they hit the ice. Would love to see a 4th line of 16 year olds this year. Will have to wait and see.

Jesse Knowler - Didn't really notice him out there. Any one else ?????

Carson Perreaux - Played a good game. Would like to see him be more physical.

Matteo Gennaro- Had a great game for a 15 year old. Will be a pleasure to watch in the future. Would battle for a spot this year if he could stay.

Jonas Knutsen - Agree's with everyone else. No point in keeping a roster spot for a 19 year old euro that doesn't do a whole bunch. Seems he put on weight over summer .

Leon Draisaitl - Going to be the real deal this year. Very exciting to watch. One of those players that has the puck follow him around the ice!

Brendan Guhle - Solid. Will be a good 16 year old next year. Same as Gennaro, he did not look out of place.

Luke Siemens- Very good, has patience.

Rylan Parenteau - I'm sure he would like the last one back but played very well.

[Wapitikev]

...knutsen is a pure lazy dog of a hockey player and he would never ever play if it was my team!! He is BRUTAL!! never finishes a check and is useless, cut him loose!!
I cannot agree more strongly.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Joey Santucci - Really played well to start the game. Banged, crashed and made things happen. Didn't see him to much in the third period. I don't think he stays when you have 3 solid 16 year olds who can do the same job.
Got hurt in the 2nd and was not 100% after that. Wouldn't be surprised if he sits tonight.

Too bad because he was playing really well before that.

-Wapitikev

[BillyBean]

I didn't really like the crowd turnout last night, particularly given the number of veterans in the line-up and the 1st game of Leon Draisaitl (German Gretzky). Hopefully that is not representative of whats to come this year.

The Raiders will keep 7 or 8 D-men this year. My question is who is/are the odd men out?

They have 10 D-men on their roster with Guhle automatically going home in the next week. That leaves 9.

The 20 yo Corbin is here to stay and he will be a leader and wear a letter on this team regardless of his level/quality of play.

The 3 19 yo (Ruopp, Wasylenko, and Hodder) create and overage problem for next year. Wasylenko played better than Hodder last night but Hodder has more WHL experience. One of these 2 has to go now in the pre-seasson, I think Hodder. It creates less hassle next year with overagers but please see thoughts below.

The 3 18 yo (Lange, Guenther, and Gwinner) create no problems for next year. Lange is here to stay - local kid, good player. Guenther and Gwinner both have WHL experience but PA traded for Gwinner. I believe that leaves Guenther as the odd man out.

The 2 17 yo (Morrisey, Stewart) create no problems for next year other than Morrisey most likely won't be back. Talent comparison b/w the 2 isn't even close.

Does the experience/level of play of either Hodder, Guenther, or Wasylenko mean better things for the Raiders throughout the year that they should stay instead of Stewart? Stewart play OK last night but I just get the sense that he would develop a lot more in Junior A or Midget AAA/AAAA. I've said it before - if he was 6' 185 lbs. we would not be even having this debate because he would be back in Alberta already.

Will any of the 97 or 96 list players have a steeper/faster development curve than Stewart this year? What happens if 3 or 4 of the 96,97's are better players in camp than Stewart next year. It's always easier to send him back to develop this year (they've already signed him so he's not going anywhere) and slowly bring him along than to keep him this year and have to cut him next camp which would really screw the kids hockey career.

I've seen too many kids rushed along way to soon - and at the end of the day it is the kid not the team that gets hurt.

I think either Hodder, Guenther, or Wasylenko (even though their play is sometime questionable) with their experience in the WHL or level of play are far more valuable to a team that is DESPARATE to make the playoffs this year than trying to experiment with a kid who has great potential but does not need to be brought on too soon. If Stewart, with no WHL or elite hockey experience, is just OK this year he will be there for sure next year after a year of development at the proper level where there will be no pressure to make the playoffs and coaches will have a ton of time to work with him.

Let's face it - no playoffs, no fans, no money = NO TEAM

What do people think?

[Wapitikev]

Jonas Knutsen - Agree's with everyone else. No point in keeping a roster spot for a 19 year old euro that doesn't do a whole bunch. Seems he put on weight over summer.
If he put on weight it was NOT the good kind. Unforgivable when he was handed the chance to be the second Euro and was told repeatedly (as all players were) to to be in shape when he reported to camp.

Cut his but and get Hlinka back...he can finish his checks and he even fights (just make sure the jersey is tied down this time Mike).

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

I dont see any reason to bring in anyone even if Knutsen was released. If anything I would like to see Oscveski brought in for 4th line duty . Hes a kid with nothing but hustle.

[Wapitikev]

I didn't really like the crowd turnout last night, particularly given the number of veterans in the line-up and the 1st game of Leon Draisaitl (German Gretzky). Hopefully that is not representative of whats to come this year.
Nice to see another poster here who is just as long winded as I am.

Heh.

Attendance isn't much different than last year during the pre-season...and the team had the best attendance in over a decade during the regular season. When the season starts and Draisaitl is still scoring at over 1/game pace and the average score is 5-3 for the Raiders, people will fill the stands.


The Raiders will keep 7 or 8 D-men this year.I'd be very surprised if they keep more than 7.


My question is who is/are the odd men out?

They have 10 D-men on their roster with Guhle automatically going home in the next week. That leaves 9.

The 20 yo Corbin is here to stay and he will be a leader and wear a letter on this team regardless of his level/quality of play.True, unfortunately.


The 3 19 yo (Ruopp, Wasylenko, and Hodder) create and overage problem for next year. Wasylenko played better than Hodder last night but Hodder has more WHL experience. One of these 2 has to go now in the pre-seasson, I think Hodder. It creates less hassle next year with overagers but please see thoughts below.

Give me those kind of hassles, compared to the three do-nothings we had this year! You can trade GOOD 20yos.

Waseylenko benefited from not having to cover for Lange's gaffs...Hodder was stuck with Ghule who had a below average game in the third.

If Parenteau is the backup this year (which I'm hoping for), he will either be the starter next fall or will be traded for an 18 or 19yo starter that can be solid until McBride can steal the starter's role. Either way, we won't need to waste a 20yo spot on a goaltender. In addition, Knutsen and McNeill are the only 20s next fall...except Knutsen sucks and will likely not even be here (although Hlinka, his obvious replacement, is a '93 as well) and McNeill has a good chance of being in the AHL. It would be weird for us to have 3 20yo d-men but it could be an outside possibility. 2 would be more likely.


The 3 18 yo (Lange, Guenther, and Gwinner) create no problems for next year. Lange is here to stay - local kid, good player. Guenther and Gwinner both have WHL experience but PA traded for Gwinner. I believe that leaves Guenther as the odd man out.Guenther is definitely on the bubble right now...he HAS to have a good pre-season to stay after a sub-standard camp. If not he will be demoted or traded.


The 2 17 yo (Morrisey, Stewart) create no problems for next year other than Morrisey most likely won't be back. Talent comparison b/w the 2 isn't even close.Morrissey could easily be back, depending on who he is picked by. At this point Stewart is projecting to be a solid stay-at home d-man, if he's not demoted, which is still a definite possibility.


Does the experience/level of play of either Hodder, Guenther, or Wasylenko mean better things for the Raiders throughout the year that they should stay instead of Stewart? Stewart play OK last night but I just get the sense that he would develop a lot more in Junior A or Midget AAA/AAAA. I've said it before - if he was 6' 185 lbs. we would not be even having this debate because he would be back in Alberta already.From an experience standpoint Hodder or Waseylenko (who is a stay-at-home defenseman with a lot of JHL experience) would be better to keep than Stewart this year...he is not the most experienced option (as you have pointed out).

In a year that is must -win for the coaches and the GM, experience will likely be the deciding factor, which is unfortunate because I believe it is the most talented kids that should make the team and then the coaches should do their job and coach them. Keeping the kids that will make the coach's jobs easiest at the beginning of the season but will result in a less talented team at playoff time (because the ones you kept have less overall talent than the younger ones you cut) is not the way to run a hockey club over the long term.


Will any of the 97 or 96 list players have a steeper/faster development curve than Stewart this year? What happens if 3 or 4 of the 96,97's are better players in camp than Stewart next year. It's always easier to send him back to develop this year (they've already signed him so he's not going anywhere) and slowly bring him along than to keep him this year and have to cut him next camp which would really screw the kids hockey career.Before he got injured at camp, Burr looked better than Stewart and at least as good as Guhle. Hobbs is supposed to be good as well but was injured and could not attend camp. Boulton, who did not look good at camp will have another year to improve, hopefully playing alongside Guhle (they were teammates last year). Of the '96s Verall looks to be the best (he needs to get more muscle on that big frame though) Finnson needs to improve if he is going to make the jump next fall...Laquette has an even longer way to go (learning how to skate backwards would be a good start).


I've seen too many kids rushed along way to soon - and at the end of the day it is the kid not the team that gets hurt.

I think either Hodder, Guenther, or Wasylenko (even though their play is sometime questionable) with their experience in the WHL or level of play are far more valuable to a team that is DESPARATE to make the playoffs this year than trying to experiment with a kid who has great potential but does not need to be brought on too soon. If Stewart, with no WHL or elite hockey experience, is just OK this year he will be there for sure next year after a year of development at the proper level where there will be no pressure to make the playoffs and coaches will have a ton of time to work with him.

Let's face it - no playoffs, no fans, no money = NO TEAM

What do people think?
I think it is waaaay to early to be desperate about anything.

Making smart decisions will get us to the playoffs, not panic and melodrama.

Last year, it did not take playoffs to get fans...the team had the best attendance in over a decade, despite our awful record.

No franchise can make the playoffs every year and you cannot keep a franchise in any city if you need to make the playoffs every year to do so. You DO need to be able to break even by making the playoffs every second or third year.

At this point, with everybody projecting 4th-6th in the East, it is unlikely that the fate of 1 D-man will change that projection too much. Making the playoffs does not seem like a desperate problem.

After you add Corbin (who will make the team despite little defensive talent), Morrissey, Ruopp, Lange and Gwinner are talented enough to make the team.

That only leaves 2 of 7 spots.

Right now, Waseylenko and Hodder are showing as much talent as Stewart. Guenther is not looking good enough (he better wow us in the pre-season).

Since Hodder and Waseylenko have more experience than Stewart, the two spots are (currently) theirs to lose.

Lets see how the preseason plays out.

The game is starting on the radio, going to go and listen.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I dont see any reason to bring in anyone even if Knutsen was released. If anything I would like to see Oscveski brought in for 4th line duty . Hes a kid with nothing but hustle.
I cannot agree more strongly.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

2-0 PA in just over 2 minutes...and the 2 worst vets at camp, Danyluk and McVeigh score the goals.

Hmmn.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

waved off goal for the Blades and raiders 2 goals on there first 2 shots shaky goaltending for the Blades again

[Wapitikev]

Holowenko made the first 3 stops...means he'll have a good game.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Holowenko made the first 3 stops...means he'll have a good game.

-Wapitikev

ahh gotta love the pre-season lol

[Wapitikev]

Totally meaningless...but there goes Stransky.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Totally meaningless...but there goes Stransky.

-Wapitikev

agreed and yes he scored 39 last year i would say he should be good for 45 this year

[Wapitikev]

Most likely.

Good luck, Stan.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Sounds like a good PK by Saskatoon.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

...or a really bad PP by PA.

-W

[Wapitikev]

Sounds like a lot of stupid penalties for PA on Hamm Night and a sub-par PK. Perfect recipe for a loss.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Sounds like a lot of stupid penalties for PA on Hamm Night and a sub-par PK.

-Wapitikev

Never liked Hamm but Zalasky still takes the cake for me

[Wapitikev]

We don't see Zalasky too much...Biblow is PA's most loved referee.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

As predicted the score from last night is completely reversed tonight.

Hard to score when you are averaging 4 shots a period.

Respect to Saskatoon for preventing our forwards from getting shots on their net.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Looks like PA sat Bardero, McNeill, Ruopp, Morrissey, Hodder, Santucci (injured?), Corbin, Gennaro.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Look at the pre-season home and home vs us last season 6-2 for you guys in PA and 6-2 for us in Saskatoon strange lol

[lordstanley]

I do have to admit that Braid just kicked sutters ass in a fight just now well thats what i gather from drew wilson anyways

[Wapitikev]

Doubt they were recording the game...won't see that one on youtube.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Doubt they were recording the game...won't see that one on youtube.

-Wapitikev

chance CTV could have highlites at 11:30 we:ll see

[Trav]

I do have to admit that Braid just kicked sutters ass in a fight just now well thats what i gather from drew wilson anyways

They both got good shots in. I'd say Drew was a bit biased if he made it sound like Braid kicked Sutter's ass.

[lordstanley]

They both got good shots in. I'd say Drew was a bit biased if he made it sound like Braid kicked Sutter's ass.

well drew never said it in those words but he did say decision for sure to braid and di get a little excited

another possitve was i heard stewart rocked siemens just before the buzzer ended the game

[Wapitikev]

I can't believe that the Raiders got 18 shots on goal in the 3rd. Alalouf must have played well. (stopped listening after the 2nd)

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

They didn't play shorthanded at all in the 3rd, either? Steve must have peeled some paint in the 2nd intermission.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Anyone see the game? I heard Drew say that Guenther coughed the puck up at one point, leading to an odd-man rush but the goalie stopped it. Guenther still looking sub-par for a vet, by the sounds of things.

Although Lange's penalty in the first sounded unnecessary, for his part.

Nice to see Perreaux get an assist on the 2nd goal...he looked good last night but didn't get onto the score sheet.

And Gwinner scored in his first pre-season game.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Yeah 18 shots in the third with 7 power plays lol in the third made for some ugly garbage hockey both ways i guess even the refs need to work of rust in the pre-season

[Sabes]

Braid defiantly beat Sutter. Other then that not too much positives for PA

[lordstanley]

Braid defiantly beat Sutter. Other then that not too much positives for PA

were you there it sounds like trav was but yeah drew wilson said decision braid all the way sutter is more of a agitator than a fighter even though he has fought in the past

[Sabes]

Sure was. Nice new rink in warman

[lordstanley]

Sure was. Nice new rink in warman

Cool good night for hockey a lot of money was raised for warman minor hockey that small city is like saskatoon little suburb

[BillyBean]

I'm pretty sure the 97's Gennaro-F and Guhle-D will be reassigned today. I was happy with their performance at camp and exhibition season and they look like good draft picks moving forward for the Raiders.

There remain 3 96 F on the roster (Gardiner, Vanstone and Meyer). Gardiner played well last night while both Vanstone an Meyer have there moments.

How many 16 yo F's should the Raiders keep. Gardiner is a lock from what I understand and will have to dress for 40 games. If you keep one more 16 yo F that is another 40 games. I'm aware that you have to "dress" them for 40 games but not necessarily play them. However, that is 80 games of a 72 game schedule where one of your other top end F's will not be dressed. How would Coach Young decide throughout the year which veteran F to sit. Depending on injury etc. this may be easy or will he pick on one player or distribute it equally. Any way you slice it it's gonna be tough to sit Winther, McNeil, Mahura, McVeigh, Draisaitl etc. on any night so that a 16 yo can play.

I think just keep Gardiner, develop Vanstone with SC Legionnaires. WHat about Meyer?

[AAAScout]

the only 16 year old you keep is Gardiner, send the others back to develop. they are not ready to play in the WHL especially in such an important season, I wouldn't see them getting enough Ice to develop here.

[Wapitikev]

I'm pretty sure the 97's Gennaro-F and Guhle-D will be reassigned today. I was happy with their performance at camp and exhibition season and they look like good draft picks moving forward for the Raiders.

There remain 3 96 F on the roster (Gardiner, Vanstone and Meyer). Gardiner played well last night while both Vanstone an Meyer have there moments.

How many 16 yo F's should the Raiders keep. Gardiner is a lock from what I understand and will have to dress for 40 games. If you keep one more 16 yo F that is another 40 games. I'm aware that you have to "dress" them for 40 games but not necessarily play them. However, that is 80 games of a 72 game schedule where one of your other top end F's will not be dressed. How would Coach Young decide throughout the year which veteran F to sit. Depending on injury etc. this may be easy or will he pick on one player or distribute it equally. Any way you slice it it's gonna be tough to sit Winther, McNeil, Mahura, McVeigh, Draisaitl etc. on any night so that a 16 yo can play.

I think just keep Gardiner, develop Vanstone with SC Legionnaires. WHat about Meyer?
As Terry Simpson used to say when asked how many 16yo players a WHL team should have, "The WHL isn't a glorified Midget League."

Is the 40 game rule still in use? For Drafted players or affiliated players or both?

You don't have to sit anyone to play a 16yo if the older player is injured...Vanstone or Meyer could be back sooner than we expect (if anyone is hurt for 30-some games...how's Santucci, BTW).

And you left out Parenteau (who does not turn 16 until November 6th) as another possible 16yo, although he won't take up playing time from a forward.

And then what happens on January 11 when Nick McBride turns 16? If Holowenko is the backup this fall, he better watch his back in December. McBride could play his first 5 as a 15yo and the other 35 after his birthday. This would be tight...I'll have to count the games backwards and see if it's possible.

Last year, the Raiders kept 2 16yo players on the roster most of the time. For instance, Morrissey and Perreaux were 16, but Perreaux was turning 17 in December so they brought Mahura up when he turned 16, that same month.

Meyer turns 17 on Jan 10 (according to EliteProspects.com), so if he is already on the roster by Dec 1, count on another 16 (Vanstone) being moved up by mid December (if a spot is available).

So, given the team's trend of 2 16s, and since they only need to cut 1 forward to get down to their 14 forwards, my money is on Vanstone to return to SC, regardless of whether Parenteau stays or not (although he will probably be returned to the Contacts) and then recall Vanstone in late December if there is a forward roster spot available.

-Wapitikev

[HockeyGuru]

It does not matter when you turn 16,figure everything out by birth year ie:96s or 97s.16 year olds or 96 born players have to dress for 40 games(except when gone to hockey Canada events the game they miss get credited as if they played).97 born players can dress for 5 games as an AP unless their Midget teams are eliminated from their season(some emergency situations can be stipulated to get more).

[Wapitikev]

It does not matter when you turn 16,figure everything out by birth year ie:96s or 97s.16 year olds or 96 born players have to dress for 40 games(except when gone to hockey Canada events the game they miss get credited as if they played).97 born players can dress for 5 games as an AP unless their Midget teams are eliminated from their season(some emergency situations can be stipulated to get more).So then we cannot expect to see McBride in January.

Ok. Expectations curbed.

I assume emergency situations would include a current '96 being injured for the remainder of the season (blown ACL or concussion, etc.).

I went and did the math. December 8 is the 33 game of the season (game 72-40 = 32)...any '96 would have to be on the roster by that game to make 40 by March 16th.

Since Vanstone is eligible now for 40 games, if there is a spot on the roster (due to an injury trade, etc.) on or before Dec 08, then Vanstone can get his 40 games in like Mahura did last year.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

The win-now, opening night roster (barring any long-term injuries), listed from oldest to youngest, will likely be:

(tip of the hat to RaidersFan8 for the list with ages)

Forwards
1 Anthony Bardero (20)
2 Jonas Knutsen (19)
3 Mark McNeill (19)
4 Mike Winther (18)
5 Shane Danyluk (18)
6 Jesse Knowler (18)
7 Chance Braid (18)
8 Carson Perreaux (18)
9 Joey Santucci (18)
10 Logan McVeigh (18)
11 Luke Mahura (17)
12 Leon Draisaitl (17)
13 Reid Gardiner (16)
14 Spencer Meyer (16)

Defense
1 Antoine Corbin (20)
2 Harrison Ruopp (19)
3 Matt Waseylenko (19)
4 Zach Hodder (19)
5 Sawyer Lange (18)
6 Shayne Gwinner (18)
7 Josh Morrissey (17)

Goal
1 Luke Siemens (20)
2 Cole Holowenko (19)

Personally I'd trade Knutsen for Hlinka, Corbin for a different 20yo who actually knew what defense was, and Holowenko for Parenteau.

Long-term injury (or trade-created roster hole) call-ups:
Vanstone (F) up by Dec 8th
Osczevski (F) after December 8th
Stewart for (D) all season.
Parenteau (G) prior to Dec 8th
Zentner (G) after Dec 8th

Cheers,

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

The win-now, opening night roster (barring any long-term injuries), listed from oldest to youngest, will likely be:

(tip of the hat to RaidersFan8 for the list with ages)

Forwards
1 Anthony Bardero (20)
2 Jonas Knutsen (19)
3 Mark McNeill (19)
4 Mike Winther (18)
5 Shane Danyluk (18)
6 Jesse Knowler (18)
7 Chance Braid (18)
8 Carson Perreaux (18)
9 Joey Santucci (18)
10 Logan McVeigh (18)
11 Luke Mahura (17)
12 Leon Draisaitl (17)
13 Reid Gardiner (16)
14 Spencer Meyer (16)

Defense
1 Antoine Corbin (20)
2 Harrison Ruopp (19)
3 Matt Waseylenko (19)
4 Zach Hodder (19)
5 Sawyer Lange (18)
6 Shayne Gwinner (18)
7 Josh Morrissey (17)

Goal
1 Luke Siemens (20)
2 Cole Holowenko (19)

Personally I'd trade Knutsen for Hlinka, Corbin for a different 20yo who actually knew what defense was, and Holowenko for Parenteau.

Long-term injury (or trade-created roster hole) call-ups:
Vanstone (F) up by Dec 8th
Osczevski (F) after December 8th
Stewart for (D) all season.
Parenteau (G) prior to Dec 8th
Zentner (G) after Dec 8th

Cheers,

-Wapitikev
Or the team can announce a few minutes ago that Waseylenko has been sent back to AJHL...which means that either Guenther who was the worst D-man at camp or Big Mack will stay with the team.

[Sigh]

At least we didn't keep the D-man that was willing to fight for his team-mates.

I guess I should have know when he had the same problem as Laquette during the first practice (couldn't skate backwards) that having a good camp wouldn't be enough.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

lol @ sigh. wasey wasent going to help win any games. he wouldnt play on any other team in the league either. they need to trade for upgrades thats the only thing that can help

[Wapitikev]

lol @ sigh. wasey wasent going to help win any games. he wouldnt play on any other team in the league either. they need to trade for upgrades thats the only thing that can help
Agreed they need upgrades on Corbin, Guenther and Stewart (at least Stewart has potential to be better over time).

But silly little me thought that good defense wins hockey games...like when goals-against are lower than goals-for after 60-minutes and a win is tallied on the standings?

Defense is Waseylenko's thing...he did it for the entire year, last year, in the AJHL (except for the 4 games he played for us where he got 3 points). So, instead of keeping the guy who knows that keeping goals against down is important, we're shedding defensive d-men.

Our three worst D-men are still on the roster...the inexperienced Stewart and the experienced but completely awful, turn the puck over all the time Corbin and Guenther.

[Sigh]

I have to watch Corbin whether I want to or not...please, lord, don't make me watch Guenther, as well!

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

wait a month and if those 3 are on the team over react. i cant see it though

[AAAScout]

The win-now, opening night roster (barring any long-term injuries), listed from oldest to youngest, will likely be:

(tip of the hat to RaidersFan8 for the list with ages)

Forwards
1 Anthony Bardero (20)
2 Jonas Knutsen (19)
3 Mark McNeill (19)
4 Mike Winther (18)
5 Shane Danyluk (18)
6 Jesse Knowler (18)
7 Chance Braid (18)
8 Carson Perreaux (18)
9 Joey Santucci (18)
10 Logan McVeigh (18)
11 Luke Mahura (17)
12 Leon Draisaitl (17)
13 Reid Gardiner (16)
14 Spencer Meyer (16)

Defense
1 Antoine Corbin (20)
2 Harrison Ruopp (19)
3 Matt Waseylenko (19)
4 Zach Hodder (19)
5 Sawyer Lange (18)
6 Shayne Gwinner (18)
7 Josh Morrissey (17)

Goal
1 Luke Siemens (20)
2 Cole Holowenko (19)

Personally I'd trade Knutsen for Hlinka, Corbin for a different 20yo who actually knew what defense was, and Holowenko for Parenteau.

Long-term injury (or trade-created roster hole) call-ups:
Vanstone (F) up by Dec 8th
Osczevski (F) after December 8th
Stewart for (D) all season.
Parenteau (G) prior to Dec 8th
Zentner (G) after Dec 8th

Cheers,

-Wapitikev


Do not expect to see Oscevski ever in a Raiders uniform, he wasn't offered a chance to even try to make the team in preseason,regardless of how well he played in camp,for him to ruin his college eligibility to be a call up and still have no guarantees of actually playing full time, just simply won't happen. The only reason they added him to their list is they dropped Miller so had a spot open.

Seems like Stewart is on this team to stay and I think that is a mistake, he is not a good enough skater to play in this league full time, he needs some seasoning down below to work on his feet.

[Raiderfan8]

Stewart didn't start playing competitive hockey until the age of 12 . He will improve a lot this year as a 7th D Man. He should stay!

[Wapitikev]

wait a month and if those 3 are on the team over react. i cant see it though
I'm back off the ledge.

Heh.

The only way those three won't be on the team is if the team tanks in October (again) and I'm definitely not hoping that happens.

It will be up to the goaltenders to make turkeys into swans.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Do not expect to see Oscevski ever in a Raiders uniform, he wasn't offered a chance to even try to make the team in preseason,regardless of how well he played in camp,for him to ruin his college eligibility to be a call up and still have no guarantees of actually playing full time, just simply won't happen. The only reason they added him to their list is they dropped Miller so had a spot open.

Seems like Stewart is on this team to stay and I think that is a mistake, he is not a good enough skater to play in this league full time, he needs some seasoning down below to work on his feet.
Dropping Miller off the list is not good news.

-Wapitikev

[BillyBean]

As I have said before, experience tends to always sway roster decisions. However, in this case Wasylenko was easily a better camp and exhibition player when compared to Guenther. The other problem is that Hodder and Gwinner and Guenther have never played a full WHL season of 72 games. Guenther's most is 28 regular season games, Gwinner's most is 54 games with Warriors, and Hodder's is 25 games with the Giants. if you combine 2 of these guys they might make up a full regular season of games! Gwinner and Hodder were both acquired through trade - so tell me my Guenther is still here and Wasylenko isn't?

The Big Mac experiment has been fun to watch but I think everyone would agree that he has the beef and the bun but he needs to go back to AJHL for the special sauce and cheese. For those of you that say he will develop at this level then the Raiders should keep Vanstone, Meyer, Verall and Finnson for the same reason. There is a reason that the AJHL, SJHL, and SMAAAHL exist - it is to develop players.

Guenther and Mac both need to go. The Raiders need to focus there coaches time on a core group of D that will get them to the playoffs. Unfortunately there is no time to develop didley squat this year.

Did the Raiders really take Miller off their list? Why take him to main camp if you didn't like him?

[Wapitikev]

As I have said before, experience tends to always sway roster decisions. However, in this case Wasylenko was easily a better camp and exhibition player when compared to Guenther. The other problem is that Hodder and Gwinner and Guenther have never played a full WHL season of 72 games. Guenther's most is 28 regular season games, Gwinner's most is 54 games with Warriors, and Hodder's is 25 games with the Giants. if you combine 2 of these guys they might make up a full regular season of games! Gwinner and Hodder were both acquired through trade - so tell me my Guenther is still here and Wasylenko isn't?

The Big Mac experiment has been fun to watch but I think everyone would agree that he has the beef and the bun but he needs to go back to AJHL for the special sauce and cheese. For those of you that say he will develop at this level then the Raiders should keep Vanstone, Meyer, Verall and Finnson for the same reason. There is a reason that the AJHL, SJHL, and SMAAAHL exist - it is to develop players.

Guenther and Mac both need to go. The Raiders need to focus there coaches time on a core group of D that will get them to the playoffs. Unfortunately there is no time to develop didley squat this year.

Did the Raiders really take Miller off their list? Why take him to main camp if you didn't like him?On PANow.com, Steve Young said that they "...want to be fair to Matt when our decision is made and give him the best opportunity to produce as a player."

...so he's going to be an injury call-up if he's not too upset at not making the team. :confused:

I understand Miller not making it to the pre-season...he's only 15 and limited to 5 games anyway...but why de-list him? :confused:

...in favour of Osczevski. :confused:

-Wapitikev :confused:

[chalk_one_up]

Osczevski wants to keep his NCAA options open. Appearing in one exhibition game would have ruined that.

Rylan Schwartz did the same thing with the Wheatkings a few years ago.

- Attended camp
- Impressed
- scored a bunch
- but was left off the pre-season roster, basically just getting some intense competition, preparing him for his season elsewhere.

[Wapitikev]

Osczevski wants to keep his NCAA options open. Appearing in one exhibition game would have ruined that.

Rylan Schwartz did the same thing with the Wheatkings a few years ago.

- Attended camp
- Impressed
- scored a bunch
- but was left off the pre-season roster, basically just getting some intense competition, preparing him for his season elsewhere.I've heard the same thing from a couple of people...which makes it even more ridiculous that we would drop Miller off the list for him, instead.

-Wapitikev

[AAAScout]

I've heard the same thing from a couple of people...which makes it even more ridiculous that we would drop Miller off the list for him, instead.

-Wapitikev

Don't get confused Wapitikev, Miller was not dropped for Oscevski. Miller was dropped.......so they added Oscevski. Oscevski was not even asked if he wanted to keep his NCAA options open after main camp, they let him go, this was not by his choice but the Raiders choice, all in all probably works out best for him to be honest.

[Wapitikev]

Don't get confused Wapitikev, Miller was not dropped for Oscevski. Miller was dropped.......so they added Oscevski. Oscevski was not even asked if he wanted to keep his NCAA options open after main camp, they let him go, this was not by his choice but the Raiders choice, all in all probably works out best for him to be honest.
Must have been all those confused smilies

Heh.

Mostly just focusing on the sad news that Miller was dropped from the list.

Oh, well...hockey again in three days! :)

-Wapitikev

[BigCat20]

Not trying to stir anything up but on the chance it happens......what is McNeill & Ruopp worth realistically? What would you be looking for from the Blades? Picks, prospects, roster players.....what combo?

[Wapitikev]

Not trying to stir anything up but on the chance it happens......what is McNeill & Ruopp worth realistically? What would you be looking for from the Blades? Picks, prospects, roster players.....what combo?Not trying to be rude, but this trade will never happen, no matter who Saskatoon offers.

Just like the Blades gearing up for the mem-cup, much has been posted here, on the board, that this year is a must-make-playoffs year in PA. "Win-now" seems to be the phrase most used.

The chances of the Raiders making the playoffs drops considerably if the two players you mentioned are not on our roster...and worse, we would have to play against them 8 times throughout the year.

With the pressure to win this year, and the prospects that are already in the pipeline, the Blades would have to triple-mortgage their future in order to overcome the current inertia.

-Wapitikev

[BigCat20]

Let's say for arguement sake.....that you are 7-9 th place after dec. You take the chance on a 1st round playoff with Edm, Cal, or Sask? Next yr is your yr. Add a couple good dmen/forwards and take picks you would receive & trade for more talent. Add them to what you have built so far. I can see the piece falling into place. You have 8 guys born '95 or later on your roster plus all the high end '97's you just drafted. You can't say how the experience of 4 playoff game will help the young players. 2011 playoffs got you 6 game, then put you in dead last the next yr. So moving McNeill, ruopp, bardaro & maybe siemens at the deadline could turn you into a powerhouse next yr & prob the next. Or you could do what Regina did a few hrs back. Hold on to eberle & teubert for a playoff run then not make it!

I'll make an offer:
Zajac, Stockl, Nogier, young dman prospect, 1st & 2nd rounder for McNeill & ruopp.

[Wapitikev]

Let's say for arguement sake.....that you are 7-9 th place after dec. You take the chance on a 1st round playoff with Edm, Cal, or Sask? Next yr is your yr. Add a couple good dmen/forwards and take picks you would receive & trade for more talent. Add them to what you have built so far. I can see the piece falling into place. You have 8 guys born '95 or later on your roster plus all the high end '97's you just drafted. You can't say how the experience of 4 playoff game will help the young players. 2011 playoffs got you 6 game, then put you in dead last the next yr. So moving McNeill, ruopp, bardaro & maybe siemens at the deadline could turn you into a powerhouse next yr & prob the next. Or you could do what Regina did a few hrs back. Hold on to eberle & teubert for a playoff run then not make it!

I'll make an offer:
Zajac, Stockl, Nogier, young dman prospect, 1st & 2nd rounder for McNeill & ruopp.
First I'd have to imagine that the improved team we have this year won't be in 4th or 5th by Christmas. (we were in 9th last season after Cristmas)

Nope can't do it...someone else will have to talk that Trade. :)

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

A well and improved Raider team this year no doubt about that but the Raiders would be silly to go for it this year specially with strong teams like Edmonton Saskatoon and Calgary all ahead of them so i guess they can go for 4th in the conf and try to get home ice advantage come the first round of the playoffs

[Wapitikev]

A well and improved Raider team this year no doubt about that but the Raiders would be silly to go for it this year specially with strong teams like Edmonton Saskatoon and Calgary all ahead of them so i guess they can go for 4th in the conf and try to get home ice advantage come the first round of the playoffs
4th is the goal...even if we do have to play Edmonton in the second round.

Draisaitl and Parenteau are not draft eligible for another 2 summers. We'll still (approx 75%) have Morrissey next fall and Winther will still be here. Ruopp will likely stay as well (Pittsburgh is not in dire need of young talented D). Add them to the 19s, -16s that will progress this year and all the talented '97s (McBride, Guhle, Gennaro, Burr, etc.) and the team projects to be better next fall than this one, even without selling the farm at this year's trade deadline...even if McNeill leaves to play in the AHL next fall.

GM C is not building to have a let-down every second year which inevitably happened last year after trading all over the place in 2008-2010 to make up for the lack of prospects from his predecessors.

Now that we have prospects in the pipeline, the pressure to be sellers either now or at the deadline is off compared to past years.

I don't doubt that a trade is possible, for the right price, for a player like Bardero maybe. But if we don't, his absence (without getting additional assets for him) next fall, will not be as drastic as Parker's was last fall when there were no players to replace his 45 goals and his grit.

Wouldn't surprise me if the team stands pat if they are in 4th-6th at Christmas.

-Wapitikev

[Dwight Schrute]

4th is the goal...even if we do have to play Edmonton in the second round.

Draisaitl and Parenteau are not draft eligible for another 2 summers. We'll still (approx 75%) have Morrissey next fall and Winther will still be here. Ruopp will likely stay as well (Pittsburgh is not in dire need of young talented D). Add them to the 19s, -16s that will progress this year and all the talented '97s (McBride, Guhle, Gennaro, Burr, etc.) and the team projects to be better next fall than this one, even without selling the farm at this year's trade deadline...even if McNeill leaves to play in the AHL next fall.

GM C is not building to have a let-down every second year which inevitably happened last year after trading all over the place in 2008-2010 to make up for the lack of prospects from his predecessors.

Now that we have prospects in the pipeline, the pressure to be sellers either now or at the deadline is off compared to past years.

I don't doubt that a trade is possible, for the right price, for a player like Bardero maybe. But if we don't, his absence (without getting additional assets for him) next fall, will not be as drastic as Parker's was last fall when there were no players to replace his 45 goals and his grit.

Wouldn't surprise me if the team stands pat if they are in 4th-6th at Christmas.

-Wapitikev

You think ruopp will return as a overage and won't be signed by the pens ?

[Sttop]

I think theres a good chance Ruopp will not be signed unless he steps up his physical play and toughness more. just my opinion

[Sttop]

What would be nice is if the Raiders could get Underwood out of Regina. Right now the Raiders have the 2nd smallest team in the league and Underwoods 6'3 220 frame would help the backend alot. Regina has 5 OA so it could be a possibility. Spencer Humphries from Calgary, or Mychan from the Americans are also on the wishlist

[Wapitikev]

What would be nice is if the Raiders could get Underwood out of Regina. Right now the Raiders have the 2nd smallest team in the league and Underwoods 6'3 220 frame would help the backend alot. Regina has 5 OA so it could be a possibility. Spencer Humphries from Calgary, or Mychan from the Americans are also on the wishlist
Sure Underwood is big, but if he's replacing a 20yo d-man, shouldn't he have more points than the guy he's replacing?

Mychan would be just another forward to take development time away from one of the multitude of forwards that the team is asking to step up this season. I think we're fixed for forwards.

I'd take Humphries but they are unlikely to part with him...they have a bunch of utility forwards to dump, but see previous paragraph on that.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

I think theres a good chance Ruopp will not be signed unless he steps up his physical play and toughness more. just my opinion
I have no doubt that Pittsburgh will offer him a contract before next June...after all they traded with Phoenix for him. If memory serves they'd just have to pay him the signing bonus until he plays NHL games, though.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that they will insist he play in the AHL as a 20yo. Depending on how he continues to develop, they could let him stay here for his final year (I think 75% at this point).

I'm still going to hope that he plays like a man on fire this year however, even if it means that he leaves next year (25%).

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

[QUOTE=Wapitikev;182773]Sure Underwood is big, but if he's replacing a 20yo d-man, shouldn't he have more points than the guy he's replacing?

Mychan would be just another forward to take development time away from one of the multitude of forwards that the team is asking to step up this season. I think we're fixed for forwards.

I'd take Humphries but they are unlikely to part with him...they have a bunch of utility forwards to dump, but see previous paragraph on


we again will agree to diagree. being in another offensive dman to play with hodder,lang, and morrissey ? thats not what i would be looking for right now anyways. dont worry about his points on the backend worry about if the team is getting scored on while hes out there. . instead of looking at the defencmans points watch how they play

[puckdad]

I agree we are in serious need of some size and defensive ability on the back end. Morrissey, Lange & Hodder are all under 6 feet. Morrissey looks like he lost weight over the summer, Hodder is slender and gets outmuscled by even average-sized forwards. Corbin is 6'2", but plays like he's 2'6" in the D-zone. In Warman our d-men did a decent job of clearing some juicy rebounds from sitting in front of the goal (Sorry, Drew, I don't agree that Cole was that spectacular - he turned easy stops into difficult ones and gave up a lot of rebounds), but couldn't handle the cycle game of Saskatoon's bigger forwards.

[Wapitikev]

We again will agree to diagree. being in another offensive dman to play with hodder,lang, and morrissey ? thats not what i would be looking for right now anyways. dont worry about his points on the backend worry about if the team is getting scored on while hes out there. . instead of looking at the defencmans points watch how they play
Underwood was only +6 on abetter defensive team that had a more consistent goalie...granted Undererwood was a part of that defense but +6 is only average for that corps...but Corbin was an average +/- for PA's d-corps. (see again the consistent goalie comment above.)

While I have not had the privilege of remembering his live play, still unconvinced.

So, yes agree to disagree.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

how can you disagree when you dont remember his play ? if he was a clone of Ruopp would you still disagree? because that is who he plays like

[Wapitikev]

how can you disagree when you dont remember his play ? if he was a clone of Ruopp would you still disagree? because that is who he plays like
Which is exactly the point...Ruopp's +/- was worse that Corbin's last year...wasn't your whole point that we need defense more than scoring?

I like watching Ruopp play as much as everyone else, but what he looks like on the ice is irrelevant unless he can prevent goals and according to his +/-, Underwood is only an average defensive player on his team...and so is Corbin on our team last year.

So, I'm not convinced that dropping one for the other will make any difference on the score sheet.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

ur a stats watcher obviously. if you can say you wouldnt want a player without seeing him play.

[Sabes]

ld Ruopps +- is bad because he played more then anyone on our team. Hands down. Ruopp is a shut down physical player and anyone who actually watches the team can see that. Underwood could be a nice option as we need the defensive ability and size/strength. Using just +- and points is a bad argument and shows what type of fan you really are.

[scruffy1]

+/- is a stat that some players seem to be able to distort. Trick is to always go up ice when the puck is headed to the offensive zone and cruise to the bench when it is coming into the D-zone. The poor schmuck coming off the bench when the other team scores on the odd man rush gets the minus.
See it happen all the time.

[AAAScout]

scouting by stats alone is the worst thing you can do, stats don't always tell a true story, however the play can't lie.

[BillyBean]

Well let's hope the play starts improving because tonight was not pretty in the 2nd and 3rd. D needs a little help.... Why is McNeil fighting?

[Landon]

Well let's hope the play starts improving because tonight was not pretty in the 2nd and 3rd. D needs a little help.... Why is McNeil fighting?
The Raiders have a week to fix their problems: 1st and 2nd Forward lines are going to be ok, 3rd and 4th are to small. 3rd and 4th create some excitement but get to tired when bumped around. If it wasnt for Siemans the score could have been worse tonight. The Raiders need to find some toughness. Goalie was run over again tonight and everyone on the ice just stood there looking around. Mcneil fought because the Raiders are lacking in the stick up for eachother category.

[Sttop]

He always has his "token" preseason fight haha. From the looks of it tonight Mcniell will be benifiting from playing with Draisaitl .

[Wapitikev]

ur a stats watcher obviously. if you can say you wouldnt want a player without seeing him play.


scouting by stats alone is the worst thing you can do, stats don't always tell a true story, however the play can't lie.

Didn't work out so bad for Billy Bean (the real one). The whole premise of Moneyball is that the play CAN and often does lie. :)

You asked me to look at whether his team is getting scored on when he is on the ice.

In the absence of Corsi and relative Corsi, (or any other advanced stats) and with no time to attend Regina's games to watch him play and with no access to any kind of archive footage of the player, the only stat available that measures what you asked for, manipulatable though it may be, is +/-. I make no apologies for that. AND, with only a few minutes between reading a post and responding to it, how much research can I reasonably do?

As far as scouting goes, or taking the time to travel to Regina to "watch him play" (or reviewing archive footage) I didn't realize that was my job as a Raider fan. The Raiders GM and scouts already do that for me.

If the team finds an upgrade to the current roster, that's great...that's their job. I'd welcome the chance to get better. But I'm not dissatisfied with the group that the team has already put in front of me, flaws and all; the current roster shows only 2 d-men under 6ft.


ld Ruopps +- is bad because he played more then anyone on our team. Hands down. Ruopp is a shut down physical player and anyone who actually watches the team can see that. Underwood could be a nice option as we need the defensive ability and size/strength. Using just +- and points is a bad argument...

Ruopp's plus minus is bad because he played too much?

Ruopp's plus minus is bad because the team had the highest GA in the league last year.

Regina had 100 goals-against LESS that PA last season and 11 more goals-for (see, I didn't use just +/- and points).

Do you honestly think that if Ruopp was on Regina last year (instead of Underwood), with Regina's goalie and their d-corps that he would have had only +6?

Gwinner (only 1 inch shorter and 11 pounds lighter than Ruopp) was +12 last year as a rookie, played about the same amount of games as Underwood (but likely fewer minutes per game), also in a physical role (not the top pair), had almost the same points, on a team (Moose Jaw) that had only 1 GA less than Regina (but did have 28 G-for more).

I like Gwinner, he has a decent physical side that he will develop this season and yes he is physically smaller (lighter) than Underwood...but is Underwood better than Gwinner?

Maybe, but by how much...I'd say that Ruopp is better than both.


...and shows what type of fan you really are
Last time I checked, good fans support their team whether they do well or poorly. They don't jump off and on the bandwagon whenever the team's fortunes change...and they don't hope for changes just for the sake of change.

Unless he is far better than Ruopp, a player from a team that had 100 fewer GA and more goals-for (than PA) will have to be better than only +6 for me to get excited about having a drastically improved Defense.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Well let's hope the play starts improving because tonight was not pretty in the 2nd and 3rd. D needs a little help.... Why is McNeil fighting?
It's pre-season and the first game in almost 2 weeks for McNeill Morrissey and Corbin. Play should improve.

No Guenther or Stewart tonight...could have used Big Mack's size. Swift seemed a lot bigger than last year.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

He always has his "token" preseason fight haha. From the looks of it tonight Mcniell will be benifiting from playing with Draisaitl .
Let's see if he McNeill follows the example he's set, once the regular season commences. The team needs him to be a leader both on the score sheet and physically (not necessarily fighting but grit-wise).

McNeill, Knutsen and Draisaitl looked a lot more comfortable together than during camp...sometimes Leon looks like he has the puck on string.

WHL Rookie of the year?

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Santucci gave a good effort tonight, despite being banged up and not getting onto the score-sheet (except for roughing).

Looks like, Eetu Laurikainen is going to be very tough to play against this year. Great performance.

Knowler, Perreaux (6'2") and Meyer (6'1") sat for PA.

Swift played better than I thought they would. Just beat Moose Jaw 2-straight.

...interested to see how Saturday turns out.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Congratulations to Todd Fiddler for a good start to the season in Spokane...tied with Leon Draisaitl and 5 others for second in league pre-season scoring.

Hope he has a great regular season, this year.

-Wapitikev

[Raiderfan8]

Embarrasing! Veteran line up as well!

[puckdad]

Listening on Swift Current Radio
Finally on the scoreboard - Danyluk shorthanded
Not much else positive happening
Discipline sounds like a problem

[puckdad]

Yikes! 6-1 Swift
Getting beaten in all phases of game

[puckdad]

All Swift Current this game
At least we finally won a fight, Gwinner over Odgers

[puckdad]

7-1 SwiftCurrent Short-handed penalty Shot

[puckdad]

8-1 Blowout
Beaten like a red-headed step child

[Wapitikev]

Missed the game last night...family commitments...tried to catch part of it in the car at one point but no CKBI or MIX101.5, so gave up.

Lange and Hodder sat for D-men and Gardiner, Braid and Knowler for the forwards.

Sorry to hear that Santucci lost his fight...Knutsen is a checker, not a fighter.

Gwinner finally got angry enough to practice his other hockey talent. Good to know he hasn't lost it.

From the box score it looks like Siemens started and Holowenko finished; is that correct?

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

Holowenko came in with about 11 minutes left in the 2nd

Siemans: 29 minutes played: 19/22 - 3 Goals allowed
Holowenko: 31 minutes played: 19/24 - 5 goals allowed including 1 on a penalty shot while PA on PP

[Sttop]

The Vets have played some awful hockey. Hopefully they will turn it around for the opener .

[Wapitikev]

The Vets have played some awful hockey. Hopefully they will turn it around for the opener .
The sooner the better, but I'd be happy with the last game before the road-trip (Oct 2) when Red Deer comes to town.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Holowenko: staying or going?

-Wapitikev

[puckdad]

I think this game has sealed his fate.
Most goaltenders step up their games when they are pressed.
He has wilted under the pressure. Of the 4 goalies kept through preseason,
he has been the least capable of keeping pucks out of our net.
Look for either a trade or a 16-year-old back-up goalie.

[Sttop]

I think the smart thing to do is go find a 17 or 18 year old goalie . Spenser Trembley just got cut from the Warriors and would fit the need. Not saying anything about Parentau but with Shields sticking with Calgary he will be starting with the Contacts. This would also give the Raiders more options and competition at camp next year.

[Wapitikev]

I think the smart thing to do is go find a 17 or 18 year old goalie . Spenser Trembley just got cut from the Warriors and would fit the need. Not saying anything about Parentau but with Shields sticking with Calgary he will be starting with the Contacts. This would also give the Raiders more options and competition at camp next year.
A little smaller than than Tremblay and less WHL experience, but is playing solid in Victoria's camp, as well as last season in Alberta Midget for the Buffaloes, particularly in the playoffs (3rd best save% and 3rd lowest GAA):

Coleman Vollrath (17).

...they have three rookies in Victoria right now, all (arguably) outplaying last season's starter and backup...the Czech will likely make the squad and the 16yo Herringer would basically be Parenteau, but if Vollrath shakes loose he could be a decent option.

Having said that, I'd still prefer platooning Parenteau and Siemens this year and save trade-assets for a sure-fire d-man.

Despite the confidence Parenteau may get from being the starter in Midget (confidence that McBride will have), wouldn't Paranteau be better off learning to play in a 1a/1b system this year? The best he can hope for, next year when McBride can move up, is 1a/1b.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

I'm going to say black.... k now you say white ! haha

[Wapitikev]

I'm going to say black.... k now you say white ! haha
:)

[AAAScout]

If Paranteau stays with Raiders it will not be in a 1A/1B situation, it would be 90%/10% you don't trade for a 20 yr old goalie to platoon him. Holowenko has been on the blocks since camp and nobody is interested in him, does that mean they keep him just because they can't acquire an asset for him?

[BillyBean]

Parenteau will be staying and it will be up to the PA Coaching staff to use him wisely and effectively throughout the season as a backup to Siemens. They have given Holowenko ample opportunity to win the job and he hasn't.


There are lots of quality 20 yo F's on the market. I would like to see Vanstone and Meyer sent back and bring in further experience up front.

On D I would like to see Stewart sent back and bring in another 18 or 19 yo experienced D man - maybe trade Corbin for younger guy?

Other than in net the answer this year is not going be going younger or inexperience.

[Wapitikev]

Cole Holowneko got traded for:

-Goalie Andy Desautels (http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7430) (18)
-Defenseman Evan Morden (http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7401) (19)

So...given that development, I'd say that Parenteau is back to the Contacts.

Still considering what this means for the D (but not likely good news for 2 of Hodder, Stewart or Guenther).

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

...Corbin's fate could be sealed when the 20yo forwards from other teams begin to become available.

-Wapitikev

[Wildeyes]

I would like to see Corbin go he came here with such promise when first traded here but then declined.

It would be nice to bring back Matt WASEYLENKO for the year.

Another 20 yr old forward would be nice maybe with some size or bring back Bourhis a nice spark guy with his last yr to giver

[puckdad]

Bourhis with his incredible point total over 2 years.
There will be enough quality 20's around without trying to resurrect
his non-existent WHL career.

[chalk_one_up]

Raiders just acquired someone's scraps again.

Also Bourhis is well on his way to cracking the Warriors' roster.

[BillyBean]

Cole Holowneko got traded for:

-Goalie Andy Desautels (http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7430) (18)
-Defenseman Evan Morden (http://www.whl.ca/roster/show/id/7401) (19)

So...given that development, I'd say that Parenteau is back to the Contacts.

Still considering what this means for the D (but not likely good news for 2 of Hodder, Stewart or Guenther).

-Wapitikev

Given that Desautel has played in 4 WHL games in 2 years, I don't think Parenteau is going anywhere just yet....

Desautel may be good trade bait along with maybe Corbin to bring another higher end 20 yo F into the fold

I believe you are correct in D assessment - I suspect Stewart and Guenther

[AAAScout]

Andy was not brought here as trade bait, Paranteau is gone back to Contacts and that is the final answer.

[Sttop]

any recaps of the radio show?

[Wapitikev]

Andy was not brought here as trade bait, Paranteau is gone back to Contacts and that is the final answer.
AAA scout and I agree on this one...happens about 45% of the time. :)


...Desautel may be good trade bait along with maybe Corbin to bring another higher end 20 yo F into the fold

You are correct that the Corbin saga may end early if a quality 20yo forward shakes loose somewhere...but I'm not sure a trade will be necessary. The Raiders could pick up a player for nothing if/when he is de-listed by his preseason team.


Raiders just acquired someone's scraps again...Worked out pretty good for some (Parker, McCallum, Fiddler in year-1, Tochkin) but not so good for others (Vanscourt, Hart, Burns). Bruno wins more trades than he loses.

I'm happy we got more than a bag of pucks on this trade.

Desautels, a Saskatchewan boy from White City, will be where this trade is ultimately judged.

Morden, from small-town Manitoba, will be a bonus if he sticks with the team and there's no reason to think he won't, seeing he's a 2-year veteran.

Though not a remarkable fighter, 1/3 of his 60 penalty minutes last season were for fights, losing only one of 4...an improvement over his first year. If he can avoid the 2 bad months where he was -11 last year (November and January), his +/- will hover around 0 like it did in his rookie season.

Looking forward to seeing Morden on the ice on Friday...I'll have to get to a practice to see Andy play.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Winther's pre-season may have been unspectacular but the Raider website (http://www.raiderhockey.com/main) has a video smash-up of his goals from last year.

There's some very nice work, there, Mike.

Looking forward to more of the same starting on Friday.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Winther's pre-season may have been unspectacular but the Raider website (http://www.raiderhockey.com/main) has a video smash-up of his goals from last year.

There's some very nice work, there, Mike.

Looking forward to more of the same starting on Friday.

-Wapitikev

I hope Mike has a good season just not this weekend :p

[Wapitikev]

I hope Mike has a good season just not this weekend :pFunny you should mention that...I noticed there were more than a few goals in that montage against the Blades. :cool:

Heh.

Good luck, Stan.

-Wapitikev

[lordstanley]

Funny you should mention that...I noticed there were more than a few goals in that montage against the Blades. :cool:

Heh.

Good luck, Stan.

-Wapitikev

Touche even though most of them were losses lol

Good luck to you too :)

[BillyBean]

I guess what I am asking is why bring in a G with 4 games (54 saves) WHL experience when Parenteau who at times during camp and exhibition season has been the number 1-2 G. U might as well have traded for a shooter tutor cause it has seen more action than Desautel. In terms of 16 yo players who can make a difference be is at the top of the list even ahead of Gardiner. I think he would develop in a very similar path WHL or SMAAAHL. Desautel was good in Midget but there is a reason he hasn't played as a starter in 2 years. If he is to be a 70-30 backup to Siemens people had better take off their rose colored glasses and truly look at Siemens ability. When his wheels fall off- and they will- who do u want coming in in relief? This fact should be combined with the fact that PA's obvious Achilles heel is it's D currently.

If u argue development is better in midget or junior a hockey then the same rule should hold for Gardiner, Vanstone, Meyer and Stewart. Send them back and bring in a few more 4 game experienced WHL "veterans".

[Wapitikev]

I guess what I am asking is why bring in a G with 4 games (54 saves) WHL experience when Parenteau who at times during camp and exhibition season has been the number 1-2 G. U might as well have traded for a shooter tutor cause it has seen more action than Desautel. In terms of 16 yo players who can make a difference be is at the top of the list even ahead of Gardiner.Agreed, but...


I think he would develop in a very similar path WHL or SMAAAHL.He will develop faster wherever he gets minutes. Unless they platoon Siemens and Parenteau (which, unfortunately, is highly unlikely), then the backup, whoever it is, will see only 12-maybe17 games this year.


Desautel was good in Midget but there is a reason he hasn't played as a starter in 2 years. If he is to be a 70-30 backup to Siemens people had better take off their rose colored glasses and truly look at Siemens ability. When his wheels fall off- and they will- who do u want coming in in relief? This fact should be combined with the fact that PA's obvious Achilles heel is it's D currently.I cannot speak to whether Desautels is a good tender or bad, but there's no reason to suspect Siemens will tank...his lowest save% since the start of the 2010 season is .907 for Moose Jaw last year. He played fine through 55 regular season games and 2 rounds of the playoffs last year and was only benched in the Estern Conference final because the players in front of him couldn't beat Edmonton...Surprise! Either could anyone else in the WHL!

As far as the 15 games that our backup will see, the Raiders can still bring up McBride for up to 5 games (perhaps he'll see some starts on the 4-game West-coast swing at the end of January--Kamloops, Kelowna, Vancouver and Victoria). They can also call up Parenteau for as many starts as they want (but realistically would only be a game or 2). That leaves only 6-9 games for Desautels to start...and if he's way too bad then Phaneuf or Zentner can come up for a game or two, each (assuming they are still on our list) to finish the string.


If u argue development is better in midget or junior a hockey then the same rule should hold for Gardiner, Vanstone, Meyer and Stewart. Send them back and bring in a few more 4 game experienced WHL "veterans".Gardiner will play 72 games in the W, this year. If Parenteau plays only 17 games in the W, who will develop faster?

Parenteau will develop faster playing 40 games than he will playing 15. If he will only get that a chance in Midget, then that's where he needs to be (Go Contacts!).

Sure, if Siemens gets injured, then of course Parenteau gets the job, but in the meantime, Parenteau will play regularly (and continue developing).

Whether his progression this year is enough to outplay McBride next fall (or to play through any funk that being relegated to the 1b spot might cause), only time will tell...but it can't hurt.

-Wapitikev

[Dwight Schrute]

Don't discount the experiance of facing whl level players in practice and what he can learn from the bench

[Wildeyes]

Spencer Tremblay apparently was just released from the Warriors. He is 17 with a 7 4 2 record last year with the warriors

what do you guys think about bringing this guy in

[HockeyGuru]

Tremblay has some major character issues,nobody wants a backup who causes grief or is malcontent sitting on bench.Desaultels will fill a void for a year maybe 2 .

[Wapitikev]

Tremblay has some major character issues,nobody wants a backup who causes grief or is malcontent sitting on bench.Desaultels will fill a void for a year maybe 2 .Amen.

[Wapitikev]

Parenteau, Knowler and Mahura were all sent down.

Mahura was very unexpected...tied for 2nd in team scoring in the preseason and tied for 4th in scoring in camp.

Must have wanted to give him more playing time so he'll improve for next year?

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

That gets us to 24...can't remember the last time we carried 9 d-men.

Now we wait for a very good 20yo to shake loose.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

I am guessing one of those 9 dmen is on the move.

[BillyBean]

My guess is that Corbin will be on the move, hopefully for a 20 yo F. Meyer will be moved back to BC after this weekend (or even sooner). Gardiner and Vanstone (see below) will stay. That will leave 2G, 13F and 8D.

My problem with this final roster scenario is how the Raiders will get Gardiner and Vanstone each 40 games throughout the year (WHL rules). For 8 games you will have 2 16 yo F in the lineup and 2 veteran F will be sitting. For the other 64 games you will have 1 16 yo F in the lineup and 1 veteran F sitting. You have McNeil, Winther, Braid, McVeigh, Danyluk, Santucci, Bardaro, Perreaux, Knutsen and Draisaitl and whoever the 20 yo F is they acquire (11 veteran F's total). Now if you spread the 64 games equally over remaining 11 veteran F's that is 6 games a piece. That philosophy would be crazy - so 4-5 of lower end (I hate saying that because they are all good F's) veteran F's will have to share. That's 12-15 games for each veteran F so that a 16 yo F can play. I use the word "play" loosely because they just have to dress - not see the ice. That's what will make it even more painful because a veteran F will be sitting for a 16 yo F that may only see 8-10 minutes a game tops!

The other issue is that most standard WHL contracts for 16 yo have a no- trade clause (because of high school). So the Raiders can't even use Gardiner and Vanstone for trade collateral at the trade deadline (assuming they play moderately well at the beginning of the year) if they need to. Now I'm not saying I want to trade propsects but it's always nice to have flexibility. Mahura and Knowler fit the trade bait role much better - plus they were/are reasonably experienced WHL players (30-40 games +). Mahura will be 18 yo next year and Knowler will be 19 yo next year. Reassigning them is a negative for their careers. I don't think many WHL teams like bringing in 18 and 19 yo for a second time when they wern't good enough the first time. Why not try to trade them instead of reassigning them if you don't think they were good enough to play for the Raiders. What makes the Mahura reassignment even more confusing is that I think his Dad is one of the Raiders scouts.

I think keeping 2 16 yo F's is a bad decision. However, I think Campese showed his cards tonight by sending Mahura and Knowler down. They are keeping Vanstone - and here is my logic. We know the Raiders are going to bring in another 20 yo F when they get rid of Corbin and they will still be at their 3 20 yo quota. I don't see how they can send Vanstone back because if they do, they can't bring another 20 yo F in (which are in abundance) because of quota. So lets look at 18 and 19 yo F's. Where are they gonna get a 18 yo or 19 yo F to replace Vanstone (that is of some quality to benefit the team) without having to give up players or draft picks. I think they are kinda stuck so Vanstone stays - unless there is a major trade early on.

I'm really a bit confused at the decisions today.

[puckdad]

After announcing that they would name the players wearing letters this year at yesterday's luncheon, it was interesting to note that the Raider brass did not name captain & alternates. With Bardaro, McNeill, Ruopp providing veteran leadership, who will be the other? Could we see a home and away captain's duo like in previous years? Who else is deserving to wear a letter?
Who will not?

[RaineBlade]

After announcing that they would name the players wearing letters this year at yesterday's luncheon, it was interesting to note that the Raider brass did not name captain & alternates. With Bardaro, McNeill, Ruopp providing veteran leadership, who will be the other? Could we see a home and away captain's duo like in previous years? Who else is deserving to wear a letter?
Who will not?

Definetly Morrisey; following him on twitter and he displays maturity and professionalism beyond his years. He is one of the better ambassadors the Raiders have ever had.

[JMoney1988]

just wanted to say good luck this season......., see you guys friday and saturday

[Dwight Schrute]

Am I the only one still confused about mahura

[Wapitikev]

My guess is that Corbin will be on the move, hopefully for a 20 yo F. Meyer will be moved back to BC after this weekend (or even sooner). Gardiner and Vanstone (see below) will stay. That will leave 2G, 13F and 8D.Last March the team ended the season with 14 forwards, 7 D-men (plus 2 goalies, obviously) for a total of 23. The roster can have 25 but the team usually doesn't carry that many unless someone is injured.

December 04, when they called up Mahura (because he was leading the Alberta Midget League in points), they had 3 16yos for a short time (Morrissey, Mahura & Perreaux...who turned 17 on December 28).

Having 3 16yo forwards (until January 10 when Meyer turns 17) will be longer than usual but carrying 14 forwards (current 13 plus another 20yo) will be nothing new for the team.

...and at -4 in the last 3 games, I'd pick Vanstone as the one that would be sent back, if one of the three goes, particularly with the number of sub 6' forwards on the squad.


My problem with this final roster scenario is how the Raiders will get Gardiner and Vanstone each 40 games throughout the year (WHL rules). For 8 games you will have 2 16 yo F in the lineup and 2 veteran F will be sitting. For the other 64 games you will have 1 16 yo F in the lineup and 1 veteran F sitting. You have McNeil, Winther, Braid, McVeigh, Danyluk, Santucci, Bardaro, Perreaux, Knutsen and Draisaitl and whoever the 20 yo F is they acquire (11 veteran F's total). Now if you spread the 64 games equally over remaining 11 veteran F's that is 6 games a piece. That philosophy would be crazy - so 4-5 of lower end (I hate saying that because they are all good F's) veteran F's will have to share. That's 12-15 games for each veteran F so that a 16 yo F can play. I use the word "play" loosely because they just have to dress - not see the ice. That's what will make it even more painful because a veteran F will be sitting for a 16 yo F that may only see 8-10 minutes a game tops!If you don't like having 2 then you will absolutely hate having 3.:)

You forgot to factor in injuries...Danyluk, Perreaux, Tochkin, Knutsen all missed significant time last year (something like 115 games, all totaled). That's almost enough to get all 3 of them their 40 games (assuming that some of the injuries overlap like they did last season). The rest of the forwards would easily make up the other 5 games here or there with minor injuries or being in the dog-house.

Plus, if Gardiner goes to the world u16 (like Morrissey did last year) don't all the games played while he is absent count towards his 40?

And, if a 16yo is injured, don't all of the games played during the injury count towards their 40?


The other issue is that most standard WHL contracts for 16 yo have a no- trade clause (because of high school). So the Raiders can't even use Gardiner and Vanstone for trade collateral at the trade deadline (assuming they play moderately well at the beginning of the year) if they need to. Now I'm not saying I want to trade propsects but it's always nice to have flexibility. Mahura and Knowler fit the trade bait role much better - plus they were/are reasonably experienced WHL players (30-40 games +). Mahura will be 18 yo next year and Knowler will be 19 yo next year. Reassigning them is a negative for their careers. I don't think many WHL teams like bringing in 18 and 19 yo for a second time when they wern't good enough the first time. Why not try to trade them instead of reassigning them if you don't think they were good enough to play for the Raiders. What makes the Mahura reassignment even more confusing is that I think his Dad is one of the Raiders scouts.As I initially posted, I was also confused about Mahura but, after looking a little closer...

He was brought into the W last year due to his hot start in midget but then ended up getting very little playing time/game and had only 1 goal and no assists in 39 games. Then, this fall, he had no goals in the camp scrimmages (4 assists). Then, in 4 pre-season games he had points in the first game, but then nothing for the next 3.

Mahura has talent that needs developing. He'll get far more minutes/game on the first line, back in Midget, than he will stuck on the 4th line or not dressing for the Raiders.

If he leads the midget league again this year in scoring (for the whole year), that progress will serve him well when he is trying to make the squad next fall against Gennaro, Miller, Osczevski, Yaremchuk, etc. who have no WHL experience.

I wouldn't write him off yet.


I think keeping 2 16 yo F's is a bad decision. However, I think Campese showed his cards tonight by sending Mahura and Knowler down. They are keeping Vanstone - and here is my logic. We know the Raiders are going to bring in another 20 yo F when they get rid of Corbin and they will still be at their 3 20 yo quota. I don't see how they can send Vanstone back because if they do, they can't bring another 20 yo F in (which are in abundance) because of quota. So lets look at 18 and 19 yo F's. Where are they gonna get a 18 yo or 19 yo F to replace Vanstone (that is of some quality to benefit the team) without having to give up players or draft picks. I think they are kinda stuck so Vanstone stays - unless there is a major trade early on.It's a little early to be calling for a trade...let's wait and see if another 20yo forward shows up before October 15th...that will also give Meyer and Vanstone time to swim or sink.

If a trade does become necessary, Bruno's track record in "forward" trading is hit more often than miss.

As the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy says: "Don't panic." :)

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Definetly Morrisey; following him on twitter and he displays maturity and professionalism beyond his years. He is one of the better ambassadors the Raiders have ever had.Agreed.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

just wanted to say good luck this season......., see you guys friday and saturdayGood luck to you too, JMoney.

-Wapitikev