PDA

View Full Version : Giants 4 Hitmen 5 - Oct 20, 2012



dondo
10-21-2012, 03:24 AM
The Giants put together yet another inconsistent effort with the same results. I'm not sure how they expect to win anything, putting themselves into massive holes with unfocused sloppy play that is well within their ability to turn around.


Hitmen Snuff Giants
Vancouver 4 Calgary 5

Once again the boys put themselves in a big hole and then just miss coming back all the way. If they had kept the kind of intensity they had in the last 10 minutes of the third throughout the game they might have fared better, but having the shots even at 18 apiece after two periods and the score a lopsided 5-1 for the visitors is not how you want to play the game. Credit them for the comeback and the battle, but also fault them for what Hay calls their lulls where they allow premium scoring chances not due to lack of skill but rather lack of focus, effort and team unity. The second goal against was an awful, lazy neutral zone turnover exacerbated by a lacklustre back check too slow to get to a wide open puck left loose in the slot. Tyler Fuhr had no chance and the team gave up a goal that would have embarrassed a pee-wee squad.

This team is frustrating me greatly with their disappearing act. Their ability to turn it up in the latter stages of games, only to fail to come back all way (often from a three goal or more deficit) means they have it in themselves and choose to use it sporadically. The appearance of effort only to let a loss of focus have them fishing the puck out of their net has led the team to have the kind of losing streak they currently have. There are inherent problems with systems, special teams and question marks with our goaltending, but those moments of coordinated teamwork give us hope that they can find a way out of their current slump. I just wish they were willing to use them more consistently and for a larger part of each game.

The boys opened the scoring off of some hard work going to the net. The fourth line showed them how it was done with Thomas Foster coming away with his first goal of the season, shuffling it five-hole on the Calgary netminder. Riley Kieser got the lone helper. The Hitmen tied it up on the PP mid-way through the first. It came after the Giants weathered a 4 on 3, then 5 on 3, PP onslaught from the Hitmen. Another PP led to a hard-fought goal against. Sadly that goal killed the strides the Giants took getting their PK to finally work (for a time) and then giving up a painfully easy go-ahead goal, off of a listless lazy play and lack of hunger, killed the energy in the building. The Hitmen scored again late in the period, a solo effort off of clean wind-up and an unchallenged blast from the top of the right face-off circle. Cody Sylvester continued to feast on the Giants - scoring three on the night and getting his hat-trick marker on a PP early in the second. Yet another turnover later in the middle frame found the Giants down 5-1. The home town boys phoned in their effort in the second period and seemed disinterested in even trying for a come-back. They out-shot the Hitmen in the period, but didn’t look terribly dangerous doing so.

Too little too late once again. Fuhr was pressed to make some great stops, turning away some breakaways and semi-breakaways until the Giants woke up in the third and even after they woke up as the boys were pressuring hard down the ice. Blake Orban found the back of the net in the final frame. It appeared the puck was tipped as his point shot blasted its way through traffic. Dalton Sward and Trevor Cheek got the assists. Sward capitalized on a PP, scoring the Giants only goal with the man-advantage. Marek Tvrdon and Jackson Houck with the extra points on the play. Trevor Cheek made it interesting stuffing a puck past Mack Shields off of a beauty blind seeing-eye pass from Tvrdon. The kind of pass that has been their bugaboo and the cause of many a turnover so far this season, but worked this time. David Musil got the other helper. Late pressure came for naught as the Giants yet again failed to erase a deficit into which they mired themselves.

Team Notes: Carter Popoff, Austin Vetterl and Taylor Vickerman were healthy scratches. Anthony Ast was back in the line-up. David Musil got the only star for the Giants and I don’t know why. In my observation his effort continues to be sub-par (considering his professed talent) and work in his own end at times suspect and tonight was not much different. This is someone who should be a dominant leader and instead he is often a passenger and that disappoints me. The team remains at the bottom of the WHL, with 4 pts – 2-8-0-0.

Fisticuffs: Tanner Moar v Peter Kosterman - Moar had the upper-hand early, but lost it later in the battle with both players going down together. Scott Cooke v Josh Thrower – Cooke laid a clean hard body-check on the end boards. Thrower took offense and challenged him. A decent back and forth bout, with both players tiring early and being separated by the linesmen.

Zebra Cage: Sean Raphael v Nick Swaine - Lop-sided early a bit invisible later, but ending up mostly balanced. There were some good situational calls that recognized contributing factors. Not the best, but decent enough once the early whistles had passed by.

The Giants out-shot the Hitmen 34-24, with most of their shots seeming to come in the latter stages of the third. The home town boys went 1 for 5 on the PP, with most of their man-advantage chances looking more traffic accident than advantage. They gave up two solid short-handed breakaways. Their puck control was brutal, passes soft and predictable and putting Tvrdon on the point is in my mind a recipe for disaster. They squandered their opportunities including a long 5 on 3. The Hitmen went 2 for 5. The G`s did a great job very early in the game shutting them down and battling hard down low for the puck, but their PK struggled later.

Special teams remain a concern as does the Vancouver squad`s goaltending. Inconsistent effort is a problem and has been for the season so far. It might be time to change up who runs the PP and PK coach-wise and possibly reassess the goaltending coach as the team has failed developing young goalies. Part of that is not giving them enough real game-time to play and learn. Another is over-playing the starter (usually the older goalie) no matter what happens. An issue is that over past few seasons we haven`t had a young tender who has made themselves valuable to play. Inconsistent starts are one thing, but the strong fundamentals being suspect are something else entirely. There is no easy solution and for those us on the periphery it is more exercise than reality to fix what`s wrong. As fans we can discuss and ponder, but it can be frustrating to watch a team you love disintegrate start by start. The boys have tomorrow off and then will try to get their third win on Wednesday versus the Brandon Wheatkings. One more game on Friday and then they leave town for an extended road trip. Maybe on the road they will develop some chemistry.

Three Stars

1. Cody Sylvester
2. David Musil
3. Brooks Macek

Dondo`s Hardhat: goes to – Thomas Foster – opened the scoring, was a +1 with limited ice-time. Had productive shifts and looked good out there.

newwestgiant
10-21-2012, 10:03 AM
A very frustrating game to watch. Calgary are clearly a better team than us (and our bogey team, even in the years when we had the better team we could never beat those guys. Kinda like we never lose to Edmonton even when they have the better team) and if you had told me before the game we would play them to a 5-4 loss I would have thought that a good effort for us. We got off to a great start, really liked Foster's goal, dunno why we don;t crash the net more often. We had good energy the first ten minutes or so and we finally got some solid play on the PK and were unlucky to give up the first goal when both Musil and I think Burns broke their sticks on the PK effectively putting us down 5 men to 2 (I also thought the high sticking calls on Houck were weak they showed the replay a couple of times on the four minute call and I still couldn't see the high stick). but then as Dondo pointed out, two bad turnovers on lazy, sloppy play and we are down 3-1 and the team just quits. Very disappointing to watch.

Coaching is definitely a problem, our PP looks awful. And Tvrdon on the point on the PP is an accident waiting to happen. The kid plays lazy and is a defensive liability out there. Drives me nuts every time he is on the ice. I suspect confidence is a big problem for the boys right now. With the talent we have with our top six forwards we should have more wins than we do. Our D has been very disappointing. Orban has been the only bright spot. I thought Fuhr had his best game of the season, it easily could have been 8-1 or 9-1 going into the third. We can turn this around but we have to play hard for the entire sixty minutes of a game. Tonight we showed up for the first ten minutes and the last ten minutes. And that is just not good enough.

MeszarosFan
10-21-2012, 02:57 PM
Tvrdon is a huge liability and the sooner he is gone the happier I am going to be. I have been calling him cupcake for a while now, and the more I see him play the more apt the description is becoming. He can't stand being hit, he rarely goes into the corners and grubs for the puck and he coasts instead of skating. He has one deke move that he uses every time, and small wonder that most defenders know exactly what he's going to do when he has the puck. Hay had him and Manning on the point on powerplays last year, and I believe they gave up five or six goals. Obviously Hay didn't learn from that mistake.

I am not impressed with Orban either to be honest. I am amazed at his plus/minus, since he has a bad habit of throwing the puck right into the slot instead of up the boards. Kulak has slipped big time too, now thinking only of rushing the puck. There have been lots of turnovers deep in the offensive zone and then a forward having to cover.

Our biggest problem is goaltending. Liston has essentially showed nothing. Fuhr has moments when he is brilliant (like all the breakways in the 3rd) and others where he looks like a rookie (the third Calgary goal). At this point I would like to see Liston gone and call up Lee. Then do a 50/50 year between the two kids and get them some experience. It might mean a bad year, but frankly, at this point it couldn't get much worse.

johnnyradiant
10-21-2012, 05:30 PM
One of the most frustrating shifts was when the biggest butterfly out there on his second worst shifts was rewarded with an assist.

Instead of trading away future picks lets trade a current liability for a future pick.

We certainly couldn't get much worse than the bottom of the league.

That said my wish list
To see Tyvrdon traded sooner than later
The next time Calgary is in town we actually beat them cleanly and preferably before the half-way point with no let up until the 60 min mark!
And last and not least to finish the year with more than 28 points at home

dondo
10-22-2012, 05:08 PM
I'm not so harsh on Tvrdon as you guys. yes he is not the ideal player, but he is still getting points and creating chances .. in that game alone he made some very nice moves with the puck an getting to loose pucks to create scoring chances.

We cannot afford to give up on players who are getting points. Is he a great back-checker? nah. Is he willing to grind it out in the corners? rarely, but he does have good vision and decent speed and he is trying to make things happen offensively. Think Timmy Kraus -- looked invisible watching him on the ice, but at the end of the game he invariably had mutliple points.

I expect a lot more from Tvrdon, but he is producing and our only euro - Euros are different and we are very quick to throw him under the bus, but if you look at the big picture he does bring value and to be honest I don't think we'd get more value for him in terms of picks (esp the way Bonner is negotiating these days), than he brings to the team as a player.

I don't agree with you on Orban MF, he is hands down the most stable defender we have. Even on an off shift he is miles above most of the others interms of defending his own end. I find it more rare than not that he throws it up the slot. Orban did not have his best game vs Calgary, but on average he is very effective.

When we are confident we go to the net more, but the one positive about the G's game this year is that more often than not we have traffic in front of the net and have chances down low. There were a few nice wraparounds stopped by a timely pad, and some of the loose pucks we created in front should have been cashed in better, but those chances are there. Franson has got to fill Gally's shoes in that respect and get more productive swooping in and burying those loose pucks in the slot.

Lucic
10-22-2012, 11:37 PM
Think Timmy Kraus -- looked invisible watching him on the ice, but at the end of the game he invariably had mutliple points.

A guy scratched for the most important game in franchise history in favor of a 15 year old rookie? :p

Kraus was extremely frustrating too but even he back checked harder than Tvrdon. And he didn't take as many stupid selfish penalties. At one point Hay didn't put up with that kind of crap. But he seems to have become more lax on some of those tendencies. Which isn't a good thing, IMO.

Of course Kraus had a lot more support around him which made his bad tendencies easier to live with. Tvrdon needs to play with skilled players in order to be an effective player, IMO. And that just is not going to happen here this season. I do believe he has decent trade value. Although it will probably increase closer to the trade deadline. That is if he can last on this team for that long.

At the end of the day I'd rather see the younger guys get more ice time and grow as players than see Tvrdon dogging it down the ice and sulk on his way back to the bench. The team is going to lose with or without Tvrdon. I'd prefer to the latter.

dondo
10-24-2012, 02:47 AM
I get that sentiment Lucic and for the most part I agree with you, but to be honest the deals Bonner has been making do not fill me with confidence that good value for any of our players can be found.

Hay definitely lost patience with Kraus, but you cannot deny he got his points even though he seemed to be floaty, he could find seams while other guys ground it out. What I am saing though is that the Giants have always had the same kind of player and they live and die by it. Different players need different ways of coaching - some need a stick, some need a carrot, some need a massage before the carrot ;)

Why we dealt for a player like Sieben when we had a bigger better version in Bellerive makes me shake my head. I understand acquiring guys like Moar. The Giants have suffered without a productive Euro since Repik and he took a season or two to get rolling too. Tvrdon has the chops and yes he needs to play with skill guys, who I beleive Houck, Franson, Sward and Burns to be - they might not be Gally level, but then Martinook wasn't before his break-out year.

The boys need someone to take this team on their back and step it up - seriously step it up - the quality of most of the players we have do not add up to our current record and they have proved they are capable in bursts. maybe Hay's hardnosed style is falling on deaf ears or maybe our asst coaching support staff isn't good enough - namely the goaltending coach right now and esp whoever is running special teams.

Lucic
10-24-2012, 03:04 AM
I get that sentiment Lucic and for the most part I agree with you, but to be honest the deals Bonner has been making do not fill me with confidence that good value for any of our players can be found.

I've expressed my frustration with Bonner's trades as of late. And I agree, he's been on the short end of the stick in more deals over the past couple of years than in years past. But a player like Tvrdon would bring back more in return than Whistle or Bellerive. While the latter two have upside as their biggest asset, Tvrdon is an already established, signed NHL prospect. And for a team trying to make a push for a long playoff run, a sniper like Tvrdon could be very valuable.


Hay definitely lost patience with Kraus, but you cannot deny he got his points even though he seemed to be floaty, he could find seams while other guys ground it out.

I agree, Kraus definitely put up points. But the point I was trying to make earlier is that Kraus had a lot of support. On the team right now, there isn't much support for a player like Tvrdon. In other words he doesn't fit into how this team is molded. Tvrdon needs to play with other skilled players. This team is severely lacking that.


Why we dealt for a player like Sieben when we had a bigger better version in Bellerive makes me shake my head.

I'm not a fan of Sieben and I wasn't a fan of acquiring him from the start. That said, Bellerive asked to be traded. So I don't fault Bonner there. And I do believe Bellerive needed a change of scenery. Even with his success in Red Deer, I truly believe he wouldn't have had that type of success here.

JMoney1988
10-24-2012, 05:47 PM
What do you think Tvordon would get traded for, what is he worth???

Lucic
10-24-2012, 08:52 PM
What do you think Tvordon would get traded for, what is he worth???

That's hard to say. He would basically be a rental player. Unless of course a team trades for him sooner rather than later. I think the Giants would be happy with a younger body and a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Problem is right now he isn't scoring. So his value is probably lower than it should be.

Do you think the Blades would be interested in him? They already have two solid euros as it is.

JMoney1988
10-24-2012, 10:36 PM
Well I wouldn't say they are solid right now, both Marakov and Stransky are a mess, maybe it's time to pull the plug on at least one of them??? Maybe a fresh start is what Tvordon needs, look what it did to burns last year....., who knows

Lucic
10-25-2012, 12:53 AM
Well I wouldn't say they are solid right now, both Marakov and Stransky are a mess, maybe it's time to pull the plug on at least one of them??? Maybe a fresh start is what Tvordon needs, look what it did to burns last year....., who knows

Same could be said for Morrison.

Either way I'm confident the Giants and Blades will be making another trade at some point during the season. Perhaps even sooner rather than later.