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Malc
11-13-2012, 03:29 PM
By Dean Millard

This past August the Windsor Spitfires were handed a $400,000 fine for recruiting violations. A month later it was reduced to a $250,000 fine, as well as, some draft pick relief.

The Pipeline Show has learned from multiple sources in the WHL that the Portland Winterhawks could be the next CHL club to face sanctions for player recruitment.

The first question we have is who is doing the investigation? Is it a WHL hired investigator? The OHL has a "Director of Security and Enforcement" who was the lead man on the Spitfires' case.

There has been talk for years about certain teams and their route to success. Some of it for sure is sour grapes, but you have to think where there's smoke, there's fire and some teams in the WHL, OHL and QMJHL will be exposed for breaking the rules.

But not every powerhouse that is backed by big bucks should be cast in the same light. That would be discounting brilliant managerial work by some who simply make good hockey decisions, or have people who do that for them.

In the case of Portland, here is their latest big recruit and a few situations that some might be suspicious of, and reasons why there might not be anything wrong with it at all.

Seth Jones joined the Hawks this year after a trade with Everett during the 2012 post season.
- Did the team speak to Jones before the trade?
- Did he simply realize that the Winterhawks have developed some pretty good blueliners lately?
- Did they offer him more money to play in Portland after the trade?

Depending on who you talk to, Jones is a stud no matter where he plays. Some wonder why Everett wasn't his choice as it didn't seem to hurt Ryan Murray who went second overall. But a case can be made for the likes of Joe Morrow and Derrick Pouliot in Portland. As for his NCAA options, he had narrowed his choices down to the University of North Dakota. Formerly the Fighting Sioux. UND is an unreal program and playing there is never a wrong choice, but Portland isn't exactly second banana. They've been to the final, two straight years and some (like me) have them getting back there again this year. Maybe this has nothing to do with Jones, and he just saw the writing on the wall that Portland were going to be good, especially with him and jumped on board.

You can bring up other players if you want, Nino Niederreiter, Sven Baertschi ... is Portland the new Swiss bank account? Or did their scouts do a great job tapping a rarely tapped market?

They were in the wrong by inviting "RED 23" otherwise known as Alesio Bertaggia, to a camp at one point and were dealt with according to the WHL. How they were dealt with is a mystery. Bertaggia for what it's worth is now in Brandon and has 72 points in 82 games with the Wheat Kings.

Trust me, bringing any of this up is not fun, I know some scouts with the organization and they do a terrific job, so I'm hoping this doesn't taint the job they've done. But if there is anything wrong it is surely well above them on the food chain.

It's long been a complaint from some south of the border that CHL teams offer more then just scholarship money which in the case of the Spitfires wasn't identified as the case of violation.

Hopefully if there is an unlevel playing field it's stopped and becomes a game of drafting and developing, rather then writing a cheque.

Emails to the WHL have yet to be returned.

http://thepipelineshow.blogspot.ca/2012/11/winterhawks-about-to-be-clipped.html

mjw22
11-13-2012, 03:53 PM
A story with very few facts makes you wonder what purpose it serves.

Malc
11-28-2012, 02:51 PM
As a result of a series of player benefit violations which have occurred over the past four seasons, WHL Commissioner Ron Robison has suspended the Portland Winterhawks from participating in the first five rounds of the 2013 WHL Bantam Draft and the forfeiture of their first round selections in the 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 WHL Bantam Drafts. Should the first round selection in 2014 not be available due to a conditional trade, Portland will surrender their second and third round picks in the 2014 WHL Bantam Draft. The WHL also announced the Portland Winterhawks have been fined $200,000 and Winterhawks General Manager and Head Coach Mike Johnston has been suspended for the balance of the 2012-13 season, including the 2013 WHL Playoffs.

mjw22
11-28-2012, 03:51 PM
The violations were for flying in kids parents supplying the captain with a cell phone paying for a couple players to go to summer training camps. An appeal will probably reduce it quite a bit. No money was given to players or parents just some minor perks that werent reported and were against the rules. More of show for NCAA and CHL than anything.

JMoney1988
11-28-2012, 06:06 PM
I guess here is the proof now

http://www.tsn.ca/chl/story/?id=410468

johnnyradiant
11-28-2012, 06:36 PM
If that is the proof they are talking about what else is there? Could be that's all but I have a hard time with it being just a camp or two and a little shuttle service. Even if that is all tell me why they should not be receiving something besides a wrist slap? Which other market fan or ownership groups wants them to have an advantage because they don't want to play by the rules that they all agreed to? I bet the small market teams are jumping up and down shouting it is unfair that Portland be punished. Not. It seems like the smaller markets have enough of a problem keeping up with the legitimate competition with staff, facilities, large market exposure, and all the other legit facets that go into making a WHL team. While it may not be physically harming to the players it seems to me this is like a teams version of a severe steroid use and should be punished as such.

west coast
11-28-2012, 06:41 PM
the penalties and sanctions dont appear to fit the crime- i heard rumours that the Winterhawks pay their Euros - is this allowed? another rumour is that Winterhawk players get free tattoos because they have a sponsor - - the CHL players should start a union now and get a decent compensation for their talents - The WHL should be ashamed of giving out hefty fines and suspensions and crippling a franchise for a decade by taking away their draft picks ...for supplying their captain with a cell phone ....what a crock of sh@t!!!

Caniac#5
11-28-2012, 07:52 PM
USC and OSU got off easy I guess. I think it would be wise to give the Captain a cell phone seeing that they have to do the bed checks. The rest is deserved but pretty harsh. Good luck Hawks. Maybe the WHL can kill off another franchise that's not the Hitmen.

dondo
11-29-2012, 02:25 AM
I suspect there is more to this and I expect to see a bit more info trickle out over the next days.

It is illegal to compensate any player, or provide incentives over and above weekly stipends and billeting. Paying the bills for development camps is illegal as well. Giving money to euros, or to their agents to acquire their rights/favours is very illegal and extremely frowned upon. I have a suspicion that the real story will be along these lines. - which really is tampering

I agree it seems harsh, but I suspect that this is the tip of what could be a very messy iceberg. That said: I expect an appeal and a reduction of the extent of the sanctions. One thing is for sure.. the league wants to send a brutal message to those franchises thinking of doing the same or similar.

buddysixpack
11-29-2012, 10:44 AM
I suspect there is more to this and I expect to see a bit more info trickle out over the next days.

It is illegal to compensate any player, or provide incentives over and above weekly stipends and billeting. Paying the bills for development camps is illegal as well. Giving money to euros, or to their agents to acquire their rights/favours is very illegal and extremely frowned upon. I have a suspicion that the real story will be along these lines. - which really is tampering

I agree it seems harsh, but I suspect that this is the tip of what could be a very messy iceberg. That said: I expect an appeal and a reduction of the extent of the sanctions. One thing is for sure.. the league wants to send a brutal message to those franchises thinking of doing the same or similar.


I agree with you.The really greasy stuff will float to the surface over the next few months. The iceberg analogy is great as we only see about 10% of what truly went on.:clap::clap::clap: Good job WHL.

Trav
11-29-2012, 12:29 PM
Harsh penalties but I think Portland will b ok, thank goodness. They have a good scouting staff and will still sign late top notch picks that r from the US and listed ones to. Iverson and Bittner are examples of that. Both are going to b good WHL players. Can't forget De Leo either and Leipsic who was a mid round pick.

trucker
11-29-2012, 04:18 PM
Good Job WHL! Any advantage a team takes like this, is called CHEATING! I hope that for the sake of all CHL small market teams, that these sorts of "back door" deals stop now, and more punishment handed out to all teams involved in this type of thing. Rules are made to be followed and Portland has been made a fine example of what cheating will cost in the best junior league in the world. Way to go WHL...you got this right, all the way!!:smash:

mjw22
11-29-2012, 06:35 PM
Good Job WHL! Any advantage a team takes like this, is called CHEATING! I hope that for the sake of all CHL small market teams, that these sorts of "back door" deals stop now, and more punishment handed out to all teams involved in this type of thing. Rules are made to be followed and Portland has been made a fine example of what cheating will cost in the best junior league in the world. Way to go WHL...you got this right, all the way!!:smash:

lol did you read the 2 press releases. the perks were to players already signed so big deal. If they have signed a WHL contract what the hell is the big deal about flying in some parents from europe or where ever. A 3 year cell phone deal and some summer camps really.Better to be flown in than bussed in by SC lol

SectionNDeserter
11-29-2012, 07:18 PM
lol did you read the 2 press releases. the perks were to players already signed so big deal.Impossible to prove when these perks were actually promised to the families, which is why the league really has no choice but to punish harshly ANY infraction of this type.

It is extremely costly to get a kid up to the WHL level in hockey, and I personally have a VERY hard time believing that if these flights were offered to ALL the parents of players on the team, that only seven or eight of them took them up on their offer in half a decade... the cell phone, the training etc. are definitely minor, extraneous charges, compared to the tens of thousands of dollars they would have shelled out to these families in flights.


what the hell is the big deal about flying in some parents from europe or where ever.The big deal, is that small-market teams, take Moose Jaw for example, could never possibly hope to fit free flights to the families of their players, into any sort of a believable business model. If left unchecked, this behavior eventually creates a scenario where the teams with large buildings/populations/rich owners are basically just buying all the top players available from North America and abroad.

mjw22
11-29-2012, 07:44 PM
Impossible to prove when these perks were actually promised to the families, which is why the league really has no choice but to punish harshly ANY infraction of this type.



The big deal, is that small-market teams, take Moose Jaw for example, could never possibly hope to fit free flights to the families of their players, into any sort of a believable business model. If left unchecked, this behavior eventually creates a scenario where the teams with large buildings/populations/rich owners are basically just buying all the top players available from North America and abroad.

It's not like these were free agents they are drafted and signed. So I dont see how it affects other teams. I guess you could hope Por drafts you. As far as Players refusing to report to force a trade to a big market that already happens both ways. Howden went to MJ in a swap of picks because he didnt want to go there. Most of the times players refuse to report is location from home and teams history.

SectionNDeserter
11-29-2012, 08:32 PM
It's not like these were free agents they are drafted and signed. So I dont see how it affects other teams. I guess you could hope Por drafts you.I actually haven't seen any specific names mentioned by either the WHL or the Winterhawks or the players involved, so saying that they are not free agents is just sheer speculation. Also, top prospects fall to the late rounds of the draft all the time, when they are interviewed by teams and make it clear that they intend to go the NCAA route. If you are able to draft can't-miss prospects throughout the draft for no other reason than you are operating within a different set of rules than the other teams in the league, then chances are you are going to have more success than them. This is the purpose of these rules.


As far as Players refusing to report to force a trade to a big market that already happens both ways. Howden went to MJ in a swap of picks because he didnt want to go there. Most of the times players refuse to report is location from home and teams history.I think you are misunderstanding my post. Teams offering free flights etc. aren't drawing players from other WHL teams necessarily, they are drawing players that are leaning towards playing NCAA Hockey, that the small-market teams that can't offer the same perks wouldn't have a shot at.

mjw22
11-30-2012, 01:15 AM
I think you are misunderstanding my post. Teams offering free flights etc. aren't drawing players from other WHL teams necessarily, they are drawing players that are leaning towards playing NCAA Hockey, that the small-market teams that can't offer the same perks wouldn't have a shot at.

I dont think its players leaning to NCAA and dropping down in the WHL draft.Most of their impact players are top 3 rounds leipsic and Johansen the exceptions. It's more likely all the Euros that they've brought over. Now do these top Euros stay over there or go NCAA if Por doesnt offer their parents free plane rides I dont think so. I think it was something done after the fact but not reported .Most likely the Euros were the ones sent to summer hockey camps get them up to speed on our style .No felonys here misdemeanors at best. A cell phone really Ron .

SectionNDeserter
11-30-2012, 07:00 AM
It's more likely all the Euros that they've brought over.Really? Why is it more than likely? Possible? Yes. More than likely? Not really.


Now do these top Euros stay over there or go NCAA if Por doesnt offer their parents free plane rides I dont think so.That certainly would be a great deal less likely scenario than staying and playing pro hockey in Europe--like a LOT of the impact import players do. They make money while playing over there, even in a lower tier pro league, but get adapted to the North American game better in the CHL. Maybe $30000 or so worth of flights a year might help them change their mind? I don't know, I am just saying that this is the exact reason why the league disallows these types of perks.

mjw22
11-30-2012, 06:09 PM
Still seems like over kill by Robison and some jealous owners. Now that Por is fighting back and this may end up in court has the league bit off more than it can chew.This owner has some pretty deep pockets and once it gets to court the WHL may have to disclose alot about how it and its teams operate. The league my end up backpeddling for its own good.

trucker
11-30-2012, 09:02 PM
Section N, You have done a marvelous job of stating your case, I agree with all of it! As usual. However, trying to prove that to some of the less fortunate, chromosone missing, posters is a difficult job. Moose Jaw too, is considered a small market team and yet they fail to realise a ruling like this from the league is of benefit to their club as well. Hard to argue with the nonsence that comes out of a town that has a Moose, with bright pink balls, directly beside the nations busiest highway. You go on now MJ. Keep on counting those cans little buddy.

mjw22
11-30-2012, 11:10 PM
Section N, You have done a marvelous job of stating your case, I agree with all of it! As usual. However, trying to prove that to some of the less fortunate, chromosone missing, posters is a difficult job. Moose Jaw too, is considered a small market team and yet they fail to realise a ruling like this from the league is of benefit to their club as well. Hard to argue with the nonsence that comes out of a town that has a Moose, with bright pink balls, directly beside the nations busiest highway. You go on now MJ. Keep on counting those cans little buddy.

You hillbillies need to worry about sending out a search party to find your missing 1,000 fans. We will continue watching our WHL team in our new rink for years after you are back to supporting the SJHL. I dont disagree with Sect N on most pts just the punishment was to severe. Just wondering how did little ol' speedy crik get a star like Sakic to go there HMMMM hey Ron.

Malc
02-02-2013, 01:29 PM
by Kerry Eggers.

Owner Bill Gallacher, president Doug Piper and general manager/head coach Mike Johnston will converge on Las Vegas for the semi-annual WHL Board of Governors meeting (what, you thought they’d break bread in Saskatoon?) Monday and Tuesday unsure if the recent Winterhawks’ sanctions will be on the agenda.

To refresh your memory, on Nov. 28, Portland was fined $200,000, Johnston was suspended for the remainder of the season and the playoffs and the Winterhawks lost nine draft picks — including their first-rounder for each of the next five years — for violations occurring over the past five years.
...

Portland executives asked for formation of a special WHL committee to consider the case. They wanted a hearing, which seems reasonable given that the sanctions were far and away the worst in the league’s long history. (For instance, the previous high fine rendered by the league was $5,000).

The league turned down that request.

So the Hawks have targeted next week’s Board of Governors meeting as the time to plead their case.

The Board of Governors includes a representative from each of the 22 WHL teams — normally the owner, but in four or five cases, it’s the club president. That’s the way it is with Portland. Gallacher, an oil tycoon often on the move internationally, has designated Piper as the Hawks’ governor. Alternative governors fill in if the regular representative can’t attend.

The BOG meets twice a year — in June and in February — to discuss league matters, including television and vendor contracts, NHL and Canadian Hockey League issues as they pertain to the WHL and other various agenda items.

Gallacher, who has rarely attended since purchasing the Hawks in 2008, will be there this time with Piper and Johnston.

“We’re going to this meeting,” Piper says. “We’ve been talking with the league office. We feel like we’re in a good place with the league on this.

“We’re going to the meetings optimistic that we’re moving in the direction to a solution we can all live with.”

Have the Hawks been given indication by Robison — who has said he made the decision on the Portland sanctions unilaterally — that they will be allowed to present their case before their WHL brethren?

“They’re working on a mechanism by which we will have some opportunity,” Piper says. “That’s all I can really talk about that at this point.”
...

I don’t share Piper’s optimism about favorable results from next week’s BOG meeting. I can’t see peers who would benefit from their opponent’s demise rising to the Hawks’ defense here, even as the sanctions are way over the top.

Maybe Robison will have a change of heart and trim the fine or the number of forfeited draft picks, or allow Johnston back for the playoffs. I don’t see it happening from a guy who won’t even answer legitimate media questions on the subject.

And by the way, the Hawks will not only be in the playoffs, they’ll be the favorite to win the WHL championship and represent the league in the Memorial Cup. At 41-7-1-2, they own the league’s best record. Since Johnston was banished, assistant coach Travis Green has guided them to a 21-3-0-2 mark.

The players I’ve talked to say they have a chip on their shoulder about the league’s treatment of their coach and their team, just a little added motivation in their drive to make it to major junior hockey’s pinnacle.

The Hawks have engaged in preliminary talks with counsel concerning possible legal action against the WHL. They want to avoid that if at all possible. They don’t want to damage the league or their relationship with clubs they’ll have to go to battle against in the future.

If only they got that kind of respect back from Robison and the league itself.

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/127611-whl-winterhawks-saga-continues-with-portland-still-hoping-to-plead-its-case