Team Canada

[mjw22]

Huberdeau has to be the most over rated dud Ive seen in Canadian colors.The whole team sucked today .Spott ya got out coached today big time. U.S. had they're d jumping up all game and he had no response for it.OH and next time take some d men (Dumba ) who can shoot the damn puck.

[Richie69]

They maybe should have at taken a look at the best point producing Canadian defenseman in the WHL at the time of the "evalulation camp." (PULOCK, BWK) -

I guess they weren't looking for a point-per-game producing defenceman with a 101mph shot, and with these numbers on a LOUSY team this year... yeah... why would they want to look at a guy like that??

2009, 11 WHL players on the team = GOLD
2013, 5 WHL players = very likely NO medal

[Fight Guy]

I'm not going to say the lack of WHLers is the reason Canada will not be going for gold again this year, but the politics behind the team now has affected the overall quality of the teams iced. There has been a lot of head scratching over the decisions made as of late.

This year, Subban was slotted in the number one spot long before the tourney started. I can guarantee that Binnington or Brossoit would have stopped some of those shots that Subban could not. Not saying Subban isn't a great goalie...just not the best.

Or last year, Weal was impressive at the Subway Super Series being the top WHL scorer in the two games he played and was named MVP in the first game. Also was one of the leading scores in the league all season. Even after the WJC when the Pats were televised on Sportsnet, Weal looked as amazing as he always did, and had scouts, GMs and coaches, hockey's "higher-ups', and many people in the media, scratching their heads as to why the hell he was not on the under 20 team.

I don't want to write too long of a novel/rant, so I'll stop there, but there have been some young players that maybe shouldn't have been on the team over older, more experienced players, and some players that were there because of the media or how high they were drafted.

In the end, Canada is probably the only country that doesn't ice teams with the best players available.

[moon]

What a joke.

I understand bitterness about Canada losing and the homerism of wanting Western guys there but the BS and whining about WHL not being there is crap.

Team Canada had the best guys available on the team. Dumba didn't make it because he wasn't good enough. Subban played so much better than Brossoit all year and last year and played just fine in the tournament. Binnington or Brossoit aren't stopping pucks they can't see with 6 guys screening them.

I love seeing WHL guys on the team and think the league is strong enough to consistently put a lot of guys on the team but this year the guys who got cut were cut because they weren't good enough and it shouldn't of been a surprise if you had been following what they had done for the past year and a half.

[Fight Guy]

So, are you saying politics plays no role in selecting the teams and every year the best Team Canada is picked???

[patsdude114]

There is nothing wrong with having ur #1 goalie selected before the tournament even happens, every other country does it. Goaltending did not lose that game this morning, Subban had zero chance on 4 of those 5 goals but yet its his fault? really? come on now

Let's face it Canadian style of hockey just doesnt cut it anymore, look at that american team they didnt pick players based on size, they pick the BEST OFFENSIVE players available. Who cares about hitting in International hockey there is hardly any hitting & why is that??? cuz hitting doesnt win u games in this style of hockey, its all about speed & skill.

That american team was small cuz they knew they had to be able to skate on the big ice surface & they needed players with the skill who could control the puck at a high speed.

Its time for hockey canada to get with it already & pick a team based on where the tournament is being played. A 4th line player should be no different then a 1st line player.

A guy like Lipon should not of made team canada over a small speedy highly skilled player like Shinkaruk, hell even Valk should of been chosen ahead of him. Lipon is benefitting from playing on a very good hockey team in Kamloops not cuz his skills are above & beyond the rest. He is still a chip & chase player who thrives off his speed on a small north american ice. Hes been a great success story from the WHL this year but not enough to be on Team Canada.

Seth Jones is by far the most NHL ready player ranked in the top 10 for this year upcoming draft, no way in hell should MacKinnon go ahead of Jones. Canada is just behind in times, they still try to out muscle everyone instead of focusing clearly on skill & speed.

Did someone say "CHIP & CHASE" yep were all over that style

[moon]

So, are you saying politics plays no role in selecting the teams and every year the best Team Canada is picked???

Yes I am saying the best Team Canada is picked every year. At least the best team according to the best selectors in the world.

[west coast]

Winning teams and successful players bring it every game.Today, the Americans were by far the better team.The wide ice surface was meant for their speed and skill.I also liked the fact that they had size on their defence.I wonder why there wasnt a prominent NHL coach on the coaching staff.It may have helped.Hockey USA has a darn good idea about having a national training program in Michigan,The majority of the Americans have played together for years.Team Canada will have to dig deep and find some character .Winning bronze against the Russians will be no easy task .I believe in my country and know the boys will give it 100 per cent effort .

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

Yes I am saying the best Team Canada is picked every year. At least the best team according to the best selectors in the world.

That is just simply delusional thinking. Politics and money dictate nearly every other facet in life, so why wouldnt they in televised sports...especially when so much profit is at stake. The world juniors in hockey would be like the Christmas season for business chains. Big cash cow.

If you wish I can elaborate more, but the long and short of it is that to these people, making money is more important than winning international hockey games. and when that is the case, decisions that are counter productive as far as hockey concerns are made in order to satisfy the main objective.

[moon]

That is just simply delusional thinking. Politics and money dictate nearly every other facet in life, so why wouldnt they in televised sports...especially when so much profit is at stake. The world juniors in hockey would be like the Christmas season for business chains. Big cash cow.

If you wish I can elaborate more, but the long and short of it is that to these people, making money is more important than winning international hockey games. and when that is the case, decisions that are counter productive as far as hockey concerns are made in order to satisfy the main objective.


The best way for them to make money is to win. The best way to win is to bring the best players to the tournament.

Its always funny that politics only affects "your" guy (whether that is a Flames fan whinning about their guy being cut, WHL guys whinning about not enough westerners or Quebecer whining about their guys) it never seems that "your" guy makes it thanks to politics.

This year I can't think of a single guy that made it who should or a single guy who was cut that shouldn't have been. Corrado had a good Super Series and Camp but was weaker for the time between the last tournament and the selection camp. Subban was so much better than everyone else over that time it would have been stupid to ignore that and have him there because of a short stretch of 4 days in camp.

The problem is this is such a competitive and difficult team to make that people, instead of realizing this and saying hey great to see my guy make the camp, go to the BS it was politics to try and rationalize why someone didn't make it.

Team Canada hasn't been by far the best team, even without its top players, at this tournament by ignoring skill and making selections based on politics.

[moon]

Winning teams and successful players bring it every game.Today, the Americans were by far the better team.The wide ice surface was meant for their speed and skill.I also liked the fact that they had size on their defence.I wonder why there wasnt a prominent NHL coach on the coaching staff.It may have helped.Hockey USA has a darn good idea about having a national training program in Michigan,The majority of the Americans have played together for years.Team Canada will have to dig deep and find some character .Winning bronze against the Russians will be no easy task .I believe in my country and know the boys will give it 100 per cent effort .

If they have such a damn good idea about a winning tradition why have they been so awful at the tournament in recent years? Was that winning tradition helping them to a 7th place finish last year or did they forget about it then? How about their awesome 5 medals in the last 10 years. Sure a great winning tradition there.

Full marks for winning the right game at the right time yesterday but that American team loses to that Canadian team more often than not if they play 10 times.

[patsdude114]

Canada barely beat USA in the round robin won 2-1 & then lost 5-1 so USA still outscores us 6-3 in 2 games due to more speed & skill. Canada was a big slow team that thought just cuz they had Hopkins it would be a walk in the park. At least in this years loss in the semi final it can't be blamed on goaltending cuz Subban played great all tournament long, not his fault he can't stop what he can't see when team canada collapses all 5 skaters to act as a screen.

Canada is not the only powerhouse anymore & they need to develop more if they hope to once again be above the rest. Sweden will hopefully win back to back golds.

As for ur comment about USA finishing 7th last year ya they did it happens canada finished 6th about 8yrs ago or so which brought in there excellence program. The USA have never been stronger in this tournament like they have been in the last 5 to 7 yrs & kudos for them for improving there program.

[mjw22]

We need to get rid of the inter- league politics. Send the best coaches and players .Who cares what league their from we want gold. Send coaches like Hay Sutter etc who have coached and won at this level. Have coaches commit to a 2-3 year program so the systems the same.This youre next up system for coaches sucks.

[moon]

Canada barely beat USA in the round robin won 2-1 & then lost 5-1 so USA still outscores us 6-3 in 2 games due to more speed & skill. Canada was a big slow team that thought just cuz they had Hopkins it would be a walk in the park. At least in this years loss in the semi final it can't be blamed on goaltending cuz Subban played great all tournament long, not his fault he can't stop what he can't see when team canada collapses all 5 skaters to act as a screen.

Canada is not the only powerhouse anymore & they need to develop more if they hope to once again be above the rest. Sweden will hopefully win back to back golds.

As for ur comment about USA finishing 7th last year ya they did it happens canada finished 6th about 8yrs ago or so which brought in there excellence program. The USA have never been stronger in this tournament like they have been in the last 5 to 7 yrs & kudos for them for improving there program.

Canada has finished top 3 in each of the last 15 tournaments. 8 years ago Canada won gold.

As for "it happens" it happens a lot for the US (and other countries other than Canada).

[mjw22]

No medal. This has to be the worst defensive team ever for Canada. The forwards cant back check and the d men were soft .Not the first time I've seen Rielly beat like that.

[patsdude114]

Canada has finished top 3 in each of the last 15 tournaments. 8 years ago Canada won gold.

As for "it happens" it happens a lot for the US (and other countries other than Canada).

I can't recall what year it was I was just throwing it random year out there cuz I could give 2 rats asses about looking back to find out but it was when canada introduced the program of excellence when canada finished like 6th in the WJs

Canada is NOT the world dominance aanymore when it comes to junior hockey, we have a great league in the CHL to watch our junior hockey but how the teams r selected is a huge joke. After watching Shinkaruk last nite I have no clue how McNeil got the invite back onto team canada over shinkaruk, McNeil has never been that noticable on the ice ever in all the yrs the Raiders have came to regina with McNeil but oh ya McNeil is a 1st rd pick so canada better bring him on board instead of a pure offensive talent like shinkaruk who hasn't been drafted yet.

Canada wants too many players to play a stupid role compared to other countries who go with 4 scoring lines, we want a shutdown line, a energy line & 2 scoring lines lmao canada forgets were not building a team to play a 72 game season we r playing a short tournament where offense is EVERY!

[Bighat]

Just finished watching the game here's my breakdown of team Canada and the process:
Defence- weak and slow Murphy brutal defensively gave the puck up way too much.
Hamilton glad the leafs traded the pick slow and gives the puck up.
Reinhardt wasn't ready to be there slow and indecisive.
The rest played well enough
Forwards- Jenner should have been sent home, not a team player.
Lipton- shouldn't have been there either, should have only taken 1 17 year old
Drouin. It's time to take the best players not the typical canadian team. On the big ice we need to take a fast team with 4 scoring lines and the extra forward can be a grinder.

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

The best way for them to make money is to win. The best way to win is to bring the best players to the tournament.

Its always funny that politics only affects "your" guy (whether that is a Flames fan whinning about their guy being cut, WHL guys whinning about not enough westerners or Quebecer whining about their guys) it never seems that "your" guy makes it thanks to politics.

This year I can't think of a single guy that made it who should or a single guy who was cut that shouldn't have been. Corrado had a good Super Series and Camp but was weaker for the time between the last tournament and the selection camp. Subban was so much better than everyone else over that time it would have been stupid to ignore that and have him there because of a short stretch of 4 days in camp.

The problem is this is such a competitive and difficult team to make that people, instead of realizing this and saying hey great to see my guy make the camp, go to the BS it was politics to try and rationalize why someone didn't make it.

Team Canada hasn't been by far the best team, even without its top players, at this tournament by ignoring skill and making selections based on politics.

As much as I really want to agree, its just a naive way of looking at things. When it comes to making money, the best way is to appeal to people who arent hockey fans and dont care who wins. In order to do that, you have to sensationalize things and add elements that are normally not apart of hockey experiences. It can be 'diversifying' the team to accomodate groups that are normally apathetic, or selecting more media friendly/popular/interesting players for those who enjoy dramatics, and most notable...selecting a team that is overall the most market-friendly to the casual viewer; in this case a collective of powerplay units opposed to checking line types and defensive specialists.

Frankly, winning it all is just a bonus when you consider that the hardcores are going to continue coming back if they win or not...and since canada is always good anyways, why not dress it up and appeal to the untapped market...even at the expense of the loyal regulars and frankly the game itself(accept it in common with the NHL and Canada + its hockey fans). Their main goal is to make money hand over fist, and since non hockey fans prefer mindless amounts of goals over games with substance, grit and defence that theyll call boring, the people who choose the team crafts it to match these interests. If they win while doing it, all the power to them...meaning selecting guys that play like Huberdeau and players like Ryan Murphy over Mark Mcneill and maybe Matt Dumba. And of course Subban over Broissant.

As for politics, my point is that it affects all facets. Its not me whining about 'my side'(a side that has benefitted largely due to politics. The pats have more WJR graduates than any other team)...but its only logical that people will be vocal about the things that bother them directly rather than for other people. You can think what you want, but its hard to ignore many parallels between this year and others that people bring. Many people feel outside elements come first, at least in the important decisions to make, and for good reason. Its not out of desperation that people come to this conclusion.

[moon]

I would love to hear about all these guys left off the team because of politics, even this year.

Dumba was cut because he hasn't been good enough in the last year and a half since the tournament and Canada had better defencemen than him. Brossoit cut for the same reason.

They select guys like Hubredeau over Macneil because he is a much better player than him and will do more to help the team win.

Non-hockey (or any sport) prefer to cheer for teams that win. Teams that are good do a lot better job at scoring than some BS team made up of politics.

[patsdude114]

I didnt see no problem selecting Subban as the go to guy for Team Canada he was not the reason at all that Canada wasnt playing for gold, i didnt bother watching the Bronze medal game cuz it just didnt interest me to get up at 3am to watch a meaningless game as a fan. Also no point in watching the replay when i had already found out who won the game.

But i agree with SAJ fully with Team Canada selecting a team thats more marketable for the casual fans then for the true players that deserved to be there for pure offensive skills like Shinkaruk.

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

I would love to hear about all these guys left off the team because of politics, even this year.

Dumba was cut because he hasn't been good enough in the last year and a half since the tournament and Canada had better defencemen than him. Brossoit cut for the same reason.

They select guys like Hubredeau over Macneil because he is a much better player than him and will do more to help the team win.

Non-hockey (or any sport) prefer to cheer for teams that win. Teams that are good do a lot better job at scoring than some BS team made up of politics.

OK I will indulge you, even though Im fairly sure you simply disagree with the entire concept, and running my perception by you is going to do as much as trying to walk through a wall.

Ill try and stay fairly recent. For starters, I think Myles bell could lead the league in scoring by 50 points and I doubt he would even get an invite. I also think someone like Jaden Schwartz might get a look at before players with the same talent or even more due to the fact he had his story to tell. A sob story angle to the world juniors and another media segment to run...opposed to a player of equal/better talent and no media appeal. Speaking of segments, you got Dougie and Freddie Hamilton and their TSN brother segments, instead of Rattie and his 57 goals on the team, and Weal and his 300 points not even being invited. Do you think those two being brothers factored in keeping them together on the team? I do. You can also include Gallagher more or less having a spot guarenteed on the team last year because of who the coach was...regardless of selection camp performance.

Here is a scenario. If two of the three CHL leagues have a talent level so much higher than the one(lets say the Q), do you make it an entire OHL-WHL team? Or do you have a couple Q guys to "meet the quota"? Because I think by the way they function, that regardless of talent, they will elect the latter option.....well you dont want Quebec to get mad do you? they might not watch!

What about high pedigree players getting invites despite their lacklustre play level at the time, over players who vastly outperform them(ex. Duncan Siemens, Angelo Esposito)? Same could be said about Mackinnon and Droin(though he got hot), who probably werent as good of choices as some further developed 19 year olds. Within that same vein, you have Subban making the team and getting chance after chance to start despite having the worst selection camp of the goaltenders there...even to the point the pet media commented on it. A clear angle with Subban, and also another brother story. Bet the other brother is already guarenteed a spot if he can skate backwards in a few years.

You are sure to find more if you dig deeper, given an open mind. To just dismiss the ideas and say 'oh they are just better, thats all' is kind of a cop out.

[mjw22]

Well said SAJ They could rename the tournament The Bob McKenzie -TSN WJC .The talking head tsn hype gets more brutal every year.

[Fight Guy]

Thank you for that post SAJ. I'm bad for remembering all the players that were and weren't selected from years past, but I know every year there are some question marks. Lots of good examples there!

[lordstanley]

It happens everywhere even when selecting past olympic mens hockey teams

Picking guys like Rob Zaumner and Kris Draper cause there good checking line forwards is a complete joke pick the best damn offensive threats like other countries already

[Bighat]

A checking line has a purpose on na ice, not European ice. I could have selected a better team from my seat at the Brandt center that would have won the wjhc, and it would have included all leagues.

[moon]

OK I will indulge you, even though Im fairly sure you simply disagree with the entire concept, and running my perception by you is going to do as much as trying to walk through a wall.

Ill try and stay fairly recent. For starters, I think Myles bell could lead the league in scoring by 50 points and I doubt he would even get an invite. I also think someone like Jaden Schwartz might get a look at before players with the same talent or even more due to the fact he had his story to tell. A sob story angle to the world juniors and another media segment to run...opposed to a player of equal/better talent and no media appeal. Speaking of segments, you got Dougie and Freddie Hamilton and their TSN brother segments, instead of Rattie and his 57 goals on the team, and Weal and his 300 points not even being invited. Do you think those two being brothers factored in keeping them together on the team? I do. You can also include Gallagher more or less having a spot guarenteed on the team last year because of who the coach was...regardless of selection camp performance.

Here is a scenario. If two of the three CHL leagues have a talent level so much higher than the one(lets say the Q), do you make it an entire OHL-WHL team? Or do you have a couple Q guys to "meet the quota"? Because I think by the way they function, that regardless of talent, they will elect the latter option.....well you dont want Quebec to get mad do you? they might not watch!

What about high pedigree players getting invites despite their lacklustre play level at the time, over players who vastly outperform them(ex. Duncan Siemens, Angelo Esposito)? Same could be said about Mackinnon and Droin(though he got hot), who probably werent as good of choices as some further developed 19 year olds. Within that same vein, you have Subban making the team and getting chance after chance to start despite having the worst selection camp of the goaltenders there...even to the point the pet media commented on it. A clear angle with Subban, and also another brother story. Bet the other brother is already guarenteed a spot if he can skate backwards in a few years.

You are sure to find more if you dig deeper, given an open mind. To just dismiss the ideas and say 'oh they are just better, thats all' is kind of a cop out.

I certainly disagree with the concept, largely in part because I have seen 0 evidence to make me believe in it. I don't think the process is devoid of politics altogether I just think it has little to no effect on the team overall.

Rattie wasn't chosen last year because a large majority of his goals were due to Sven Baertschi and not him. If you have more talented players and select them that isn't politics it is smart team selection. Rattie showed with his play in this tournament that it was a good choice not to have him on the team last year.

Subban played so much better than the other goalies that it made sense to ignore a 4 day stretch and go with the guy who has been good for the past 365 days.

Mackinnon showed some plays of incredible talent that most 19 year olds wouldn't be capabale of and didn't hurt the team in his limited ice time over there. I can't think of a guy available that didn't go that would have been likely to do more.

Seeing the few number of Q guys that have made the team recently I don't think they have a quota at all. It would have been stupid not to bring Hubredeau and Danault was great on the PK and as a defensive player.


I am not just dismissing it as they are better but if they are better than shouldn't they be on the team? And if they are better is there much reason to dig deeper?

There is a heck of a lot of I think and maybe in the post above and very few this guy made the team because of politics when this other guy should have made it based on skill.

[patsdude114]

A prime example of a player who shouldnt of been on this years team but was is Griffin Reinhart over Matt Dumba. Reinhart struggled with the speed of the game on the big ice surface where Dumba can at least skate & has a much better shot then Reinhart as well.

But oh well just another year of question marks of players who were selected over players that would of been better selections.

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

I certainly disagree with the concept

And I think thats what it boils down to. You think Rattie was a byproduct of Bartschi, I think otherwise. I think Subban had the spot before camp started due to his last name, draft position, and maybe skin color(just my opinion) you think otherwise. I think that quotas for each league are set in the interest of ratings and political reasons(didnt have to be the Q, could be either of the other two), and...you get the idea.

And though Mackinnon might end up being the best of all these guys, this year he wasnt better than some guys who were cut. And HC would do a disservice by not putting the best team possible on ice. This tournament is about winning, and Canada doesnt need to 'rebuild'(although maybe they should consider that internally).

[mjw22]

I think the way HC runs its program from u-17 all the way up needs over hauled. Way too many cooks in the kitchen I think. If they are serious about winning then hire ppl outside of the CHL to run the program. Ex NHL coaches may be the way to go. Let them set the program systems hire scouts etc and keep it out of the CHL's hands and all the politics. The best go regardless of age draft position or league. Anything less is bulls**t.

[moon]

And I think thats what it boils down to. You think Rattie was a byproduct of Bartschi, I think otherwise. I think Subban had the spot before camp started due to his last name, draft position, and maybe skin color(just my opinion) you think otherwise. I think that quotas for each league are set in the interest of ratings and political reasons(didnt have to be the Q, could be either of the other two), and...you get the idea.

And though Mackinnon might end up being the best of all these guys, this year he wasnt better than some guys who were cut. And HC would do a disservice by not putting the best team possible on ice. This tournament is about winning, and Canada doesnt need to 'rebuild'(although maybe they should consider that internally).


So the fact that Subban was the best goalie of the 4 four in the past year and a half didn't have anything to do with it?

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

So the fact that Subban was the best goalie of the 4 four in the past year and a half didn't have anything to do with it?

then why even invite the other goaltenders and tell them they have a chance to start if they were just going to give Subban the starting job anyways regardless of how he played? It just wastes a bunch of players' time.

The best goalie in the camp should start. Its not just about numbers and who let the least goals in...its their strengths and their style. If they thought Subban could turn it around, but he was still not playing well enough(my opinion), then bring him as a backup. You shouldnt get brownie points today for playing well in november.

[west coast]

I heard that the USA 93 group that won gold over the Swedes in the world juniors...also won the under 18 championships over the Swedes and the u17 championships over the Swedes....lets hope for a bounce back year next year for team Canada - there is a lot of good 94 Canadian talent next year