Daulton Siwak asks for trade as well

[patsdude114]

count them up thats 2 players since the xmas break who have asked for a trade now... time for Brodsky to sell that team & get them moved, PG has been a mess for as long as i can remember

[west coast]

it a shame that the Cougars didnt trade Siwak and Forsberg.Does anyone know where Siwak is playing ?

[SectionNDeserter]

it a shame that the Cougars didnt trade Siwak and Forsberg.Does anyone know where Siwak is playing ?I haven't heard that he is playing anywhere. He may just start looking at his options for school, as he probably won't get a lot of looks next season as an overage player in the WHL.

[Hockeyfantastic]

it a shame that the Cougars didnt trade Siwak and Forsberg.Does anyone know where Siwak is playing ?

A better question might be - what did PG expect to receive for these players?
Most teams would have contacted PG concerning Forsberg. Did PG expect to receive a Lazar, Klimchuk, Morissey, Lees, Heatherington or Comrie - all high picks in 2010 - or Virtanen, Martin, Pilon, Tomson or Duke - all high picks in 2011 - as compensation for Forsberg? Perhaps the perception of his value had dropped with a -18 plus/minus and 19 points in 31 games and all.

Is PG going to receive more value later on? I do not think so. The best time to make a trade if you are a seller in when the WHL hosts a Memorial Cup.

[mjw22]

A better question might be - what did PG expect to receive for these players?
Most teams would have contacted PG concerning Forsberg. Did PG expect to receive a Lazar, Klimchuk, Morissey, Lees, Heatherington or Comrie - all high picks in 2010 - or Virtanen, Martin, Pilon, Tomson or Duke - all high picks in 2011 - as compensation for Forsberg? Perhaps the perception of his value had dropped with a -18 plus/minus and 19 points in 31 games and all.

Is PG going to receive more value later on? I do not think so. The best time to make a trade if you are a seller in when the WHL hosts a Memorial Cup.

That's why players want out.They are not to smart over there .

[SectionNDeserter]

A better question might be - what did PG expect to receive for these players?
Most teams would have contacted PG concerning Forsberg. Did PG expect to receive a Lazar, Klimchuk, Morissey, Lees, Heatherington or Comrie - all high picks in 2010 - or Virtanen, Martin, Pilon, Tomson or Duke - all high picks in 2011 - as compensation for Forsberg?I would hope that he wasn't looking for anything like that, and it was just the short time-span that prevented them from getting what they were looking for (week before the deadline).

I have heard that the Father of the two Forsberg boys is a real pain in the ass to deal with, from more than a few people. This could also have played into the equation. I would imagine that a few of the teams already have a difficult parent to deal with, and a few of the lucky ones are enjoying some peace on this front and are not willing to change that.

Aside from that, there seems to be a great deal of animosity between ownership and the fans in PG. Like most people, I am not really aware of what the exact problems are--though the overall mood that is set by some of the fans and former players always makes me feel sorry for players when they got traded there.

Perhaps this is the same boat that the GMs of the other teams are in. Something is obviously wrong in PG, and I am sure they are as aware of that as we are. They have formed interpersonal relationships with a lot of these kids and their families during the course of scouting, drafting and developing them. Do they send one of these young men to a team that they are aware is having these issues?

So in the end, I don't think it has as much to do with what PG expected to get back, as the short period of time involved, the involvement of the Father, and what is probably a very limited selection of players that they would be willing to send to PG.

[patsdude114]

The Cougars had slightly over 2 weeks to move Forsberg, as he did not return after xmas... they had more then enough time to work out a deal, im sure teams put offers on the table before the final day. Chad Lang said he pursued Forsberg hard & thought he had a deal worked out where PG backed out of it in the last second, chances are the offer that the Pats had on the table will be the most PG will get as losing 1/2 a yr on him will bring down his value abit more come the offseason.

PG is a lost cause of a franchise, the WHL needs to step in soon (rather sooner then later) this franchise has always been 1 that is looked down on. Out of there 19 seasons there (this year included) only 2 seasons have had any sort of dominance & that was back in 97-98 (43-24-5) & in 99-00 (43-20-4-5) since the 99-00 season they have only had 2 winning seasons 05-06 & 06-07.

I for 1 would love to see Brodsky sell to a group in Chilliwack & get them moved there. That city deserves another franchise after the Bruins were ripped away from them due to being sold to a group who didnt want the team to stay there since Victoria had a brand new building.

[HockeyGuru]

It won't matter ,i bet the team relocates to Nanaimo at end of season.There has to be an escape clause from lease and with minimum attendance numbers its easy to do.

[west coast]

Prince George has horrible atendance figures.Does Nanaimo have a WHL building?

[the flying moose]

count them up thats 2 players since the xmas break who have asked for a trade now... time for Brodsky to sell that team & get them moved, PG has been a mess for as long as i can remember

Please do not assume that its the city that causing the team to fail. PG is a great hockey town but the ownership has alienated the team. If a quality ownership group came in and took over the team I can almost guarantee a sell out every night. You ask anyone why they don't come to games and they will all say the same thing, they don't like the ownership group.

The same ownership group in another city will have the same issues no matter what city they are in.

[johnnyradiant]

I can accept they don't show up because of them disliking ownership, but could you take a minute to explain it - how have they alienated the city?

They have had some pretty good players go through there and still haven't really managed to gel anything together on the ice. I realize it takes more than a couple players at a time but with most players isn't there a common thread that they do want to do something in hockey beyond the dub? It does seem like there are problems from the top down and it certainly couldn't be solely the coach's fault could it?

I know how critical I can get watching the Giants organization at times with their hiccups with non-hockey stuff but atleast I know they are not only there to make some money but to also support the team with the resources they need to be in a good atmosphere to learn and excel in, even when they seem to be accelerating to the bottom of the tank as a team in the standings this season.

In what ways has the ownership/organization driven the fans away to not support the sport as represented in PG by the WHL?

[the flying moose]

In what ways has the ownership/organization driven the fans away to not support the sport as represented in PG by the WHL?

From my personal view its because it doesn't feel like they are willing to do what it takes to put a winning team on the ice. The Cougars have been in PG for 14-15 years now and how many times recently have they gone anywhere? They have switched coaches and players are changing year after year yet the result on the ice is always the same. I feel that if the current GM wasn't related to the owner, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has. Sure the Cougars get some decent players but it seems we get rid of more good than we receive. While we don't know the real reasons the fact that a number of players have walked away from the team or request to be traded says something.

The arena is nearly empty on game day. PG has some of the highest ticket and concession prices. A family of 4 is not going to drop close to $100 or more after taxes to watch a team lose.

A family of 6 can get tickets to go see the PG Spruce Kings for $20 and food is much cheaper. The hockey is just as good IMO.

[johnnyradiant]

From my personal view its because it doesn't feel like they are willing to do what it takes to put a winning team on the ice. The Cougars have been in PG for 14-15 years now and how many times recently have they gone anywhere? They have switched coaches and players are changing year after year yet the result on the ice is always the same. I feel that if the current GM wasn't related to the owner, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he has. Sure the Cougars get some decent players but it seems we get rid of more good than we receive. While we don't know the real reasons the fact that a number of players have walked away from the team or request to be traded says something.

The arena is nearly empty on game day. PG has some of the highest ticket and concession prices. A family of 4 is not going to drop close to $100 or more after taxes to watch a team lose.

A family of 6 can get tickets to go see the PG Spruce Kings for $20 and food is much cheaper. The hockey is just as good IMO.


So would you say that is likely the similar feeling of the rest of the in-town fans that don't support the team?

Makes sense and from a far had assumed that it was there is no real commitment from the organization to make it a competitive organization besides a player here or there but not enough on the roster.

At this point do you think a change from the head coach up the ladder and into the admin side of the organization would turn the team around enough that any new ownership group could stay?

I've wondered why they have been left in place considering it is a long haul for most every team to get to. You'd think the other owners would be putting pressure on for a change because it is just as likely the change would include a move so that it wouldn't be an outpost destination but a part of a route.

[buddysixpack]

Prince George has horrible atendance figures.Does Nanaimo have a WHL building?


No they dont have a building that would work for Tier 1 hockey. Their site is good enough for the BCJHL but not the WHL.

[the flying moose]

So would you say that is likely the similar feeling of the rest of the in-town fans that don't support the team?

Yes, I feel that is the consensus feeling about fans in town.


At this point do you think a change from the head coach up the ladder and into the admin side of the organization would turn the team around enough that any new ownership group could stay?

We have had coaches here that have had success elsewhere. Bring them here and soon they are gone. Every aspect of the organization has been changed except management and ownership yet no matter the players on the ice or the coach behind the bench, the result is still the same.


I've wondered why they have been left in place considering it is a long haul for most every team to get to. You'd think the other owners would be putting pressure on for a change because it is just as likely the change would include a move so that it wouldn't be an outpost destination but a part of a route.

I have no idea. Every season there is a rumor that the team will be gone. There was a very popular rumor going around that the ownership was approached to purchase the team by a group of ex players (much like the Blazers) and the current ownership declined. There are complaints of attendance issues and loss of money every year but as a fan there is no decernable effort being shown to change any of that. If players themselves would rather quit the team than play hockey for the Cougars then how is a fan supposed to go out and pay their hard earned money?

[west coast]

i have been to Prince George several times and have attended Cougar games .Prince George has an excellent rink with comfortable seats - free parking and excellent food and the drinking lobby in the end zone is great with lots of tv,s to watch nhl highlights between periods.The attendance averages 1000 fans.The team cannot be making money .Hockey is a business.Prince George has a hockey culture but the junior A team is a main competitor for the entertainment dollar.The whole Cougars business is in shambles.Marketing is an issue .The WHL is an excellent entertainment product and Prince George had better support it before it becomes a memory and leaves town

[mjw22]

With the way the league treated Chilliwack I think this will be the same. I think the competition from the Jr A team has always been a problem.The real reason is teams are finding out the trip to a dead end and back is costly. This lack of promotion may be tied to the Naniamo team. The board has probably got a deal in place to move brodsky there once the city commits to the new arena. Money they lose now will be recovered in the new rink/city.So until then minimal promotion and let it die .

[johnnyradiant]

With the way the league treated Chilliwack I think this will be the same. I think the competition from the Jr A team has always been a problem.The real reason is teams are finding out the trip to a dead end and back is costly. This lack of promotion may be tied to the Naniamo team. The board has probably got a deal in place to move brodsky there once the city commits to the new arena. Money they lose now will be recovered in the new rink/city.So until then minimal promotion and let it die .

Seems to me it is a slow painful death they are inflicting. It would seem to at least east as far a way as Vancouver, with no vested PG intersted that 'the board' is not doing them selves any favours. I know other WHL fans have scratched their collective heads wondering how competant the board is for quietly (to the fans and general public) ignoring the apparent problem. If that is what the league is waiting for and Naniamo is more than a week away from a decision they might do all parties a better end result service by just moth balling the team until then is that is the only place they would consider. I know the league has publicly stated a year or so before the Victoria move that they wanted a Naniamo team but still no building. Maybe the league wants something Naniamo doesn't.

[west coast]

The citizens of Prince George must also accept responsibilty for the demise of the team. Perhaps it speaks of the dying hockey culture in Canada,Outdoor ice rinks in Canada sit idle as families find alternative entertainment .Meanwhile in the USA - new buildings are filled to capacity as hockey night bring entire towns or cities together.

[the flying moose]

The citizens of Prince George must also accept responsibilty for the demise of the team. Perhaps it speaks of the dying hockey culture in Canada,Outdoor ice rinks in Canada sit idle as families find alternative entertainment .Meanwhile in the USA - new buildings are filled to capacity as hockey night bring entire towns or cities together.

Hockey is big in PG. Outdoor rinks are packed. There is a waiting list for teams to join the local adult rec hockey league. PG Spruce Kings games are usually standing room only.

I remember earlier this season I was given 4 tickets for the Cougars. I couldn't go so I tried to GIVE them away and couldn't. Two of my friends actually said they were going to pay to go watch the Spruce Kings play instead of going to the Cougars for free.

[mjw22]

Hockey is big in PG. Outdoor rinks are packed. There is a waiting list for teams to join the local adult rec hockey league. PG Spruce Kings games are usually standing room only.

I remember earlier this season I was given 4 tickets for the Cougars. I couldn't go so I tried to GIVE them away and couldn't. Two of my friends actually said they were going to pay to go watch the Spruce Kings play instead of going to the Cougars for free.

I have family in the area and its the dislike of ownership . Whl wants out of PG and into a 2nd Island market. PG was done when Victoria got a team. They need to drive attendance down to use it as an excuse to move.

[the flying moose]

I have family in the area and its the dislike of ownership . Whl wants out of PG and into a 2nd Island market. PG was done when Victoria got a team. They need to drive attendance down to use it as an excuse to move.

Attendance has been crap long before Victoria was in the picture. I think the last season with decent attendance was the 06-07 season when the Cougars had that awesome run against the Silvertips.

Just for giggles the last game I went to last season a buddy and I counted the fans in the stands and not counting the ones that were walking around the concourse, we counted 486 fans in the seats.

[johnnyradiant]

Attendance has been crap long before Victoria was in the picture. I think the last season with decent attendance was the 06-07 season when the Cougars had that awesome run against the Silvertips.

Just for giggles the last game I went to last season a buddy and I counted the fans in the stands and not counting the ones that were walking around the concourse, we counted 486 fans in the seats.

Did the team count them 3 times for their announced attendance so they could break a grand?

[the flying moose]

Did the team count them 3 times for their announced attendance so they could break a grand?

I have heard that the team gives out 1000 tickets to local schools for some games and everyone knows you count tickets sold, not tickets used. There are games with an announced attendance of just over 2000 when in reality there is probably no more than 800 people in the stands.

[mjw22]

I have heard that the team gives out 1000 tickets to local schools for some games and everyone knows you count tickets sold, not tickets used. There are games with an announced attendance of just over 2000 when in reality there is probably no more than 800 people in the stands.

Its a wonder more player dont leave. Cant imagine how it must suck to play in front of crowds like that. The Brodskys should all find something else to do.

[the flying moose]

Its a wonder more player dont leave. Cant imagine how it must suck to play in front of crowds like that.

I've been to one game this season and that was only because my little one likes to go. The Cougars were getting beat pretty good and had no chance of a comeback. The "fans" were exiting the game with 10 minutes left in the 3rd period. I can't imagine how disheartening that would be as a player. Playing your heart out as a young adult and looking into the stands and seeing the fans walking out with half a period to go.

[the flying moose]

Here is what the arena looks like right after a game in which the Cougars won 4-0 last night.

http://t.co/JHtwviFe

[smileyjones]

Let me get this straight....this is the hockey fan of PG's fault....I am laughing.

In the last 10 years the Cougars are 130 games under .500. That means their annual record is (roughly) a kick-ass 23-39 WOO-HOO. This over a 10 year stretch.

But the place should be packed....yep. Spruce Kings standing room only???They average approx. 1000 fans in a 2000 seat barn.

Earlier this year, took my wife & daughter to a game (and they NEVER want to go with me). Cost was $54 in tickets plus some popcorn & stuff, so around $70 total. Not only did the team lose, but it was a BORING game. No intensity, just a real pile of crap. A loss I can handle but we have seen too much of this. Think I can get anyone to go to a game with me again.

It is a slap in my face as a paying customer to expect me to pay for the same garbage over and over and over again. I'm not one of these fans who needs to question the coach and management all the time but after 10 years somethings gotta give.

This is nobody's issue but the ownership of the team. They have all but destroyed an outstanding hockey market.

[johnnyradiant]

Let me get this straight....this is the hockey fan of PG's fault....I am laughing.

In the last 10 years the Cougars are 130 games under .500. That means their annual record is (roughly) a kick-ass 23-39 WOO-HOO. This over a 10 year stretch.

But the place should be packed....yep. Spruce Kings standing room only???They average approx. 1000 fans in a 2000 seat barn.

Earlier this year, took my wife & daughter to a game (and they NEVER want to go with me). Cost was $54 in tickets plus some popcorn & stuff, so around $70 total. Not only did the team lose, but it was a BORING game. No intensity, just a real pile of crap. A loss I can handle but we have seen too much of this. Think I can get anyone to go to a game with me again.

It is a slap in my face as a paying customer to expect me to pay for the same garbage over and over and over again. I'm not one of these fans who needs to question the coach and management all the time but after 10 years somethings gotta give.

This is nobody's issue but the ownership of the team. They have all but destroyed an outstanding hockey market.

Too bad it seems like the league don't care.

Perhaps the one thing the fans of the game could do is start vociferously letting the league know their displeasure with the lack of a team but not that they want the team gone.

All the fans that show-up to actually fill a seat could have a sign that they want a new organization and then all walk out after the first period. That would be sure to garner a lot of attention especially if they were wearing PG colors while doing it. Not likely gonna happen but that would sure send a message.

Obviously I, and most have no clue what happens at the top but it seems from various rumors over the last few years that most if not all real suitors for the team are ones that are not likely to leave it there.

[west coast]

Hockey is big in PG. Outdoor rinks are packed. There is a waiting list for teams to join the local adult rec hockey league. PG Spruce Kings games are usually standing room only.

I remember earlier this season I was given 4 tickets for the Cougars. I couldn't go so I tried to GIVE them away and couldn't. Two of my friends actually said they were going to pay to go watch the Spruce Kings play instead of going to the Cougars for free.

There is no arguement that hockey is big in Prince George.The minor hockey system in huge and healthy.Northern BC has recently lost Quennel and Williams Lake junior A franchises.Is the economy to blame? The WHL should help the Prince George ownership find alternative cities to play in if the citizens of Prince George cannot attend Cougar games.Attendance of 1000 people doesnt cut it .It is pretty sad when people dont even want to go to Cougar games for free.That is messed up and PG doesnt deserve a WHL team .

[smileyjones]

There isn't a lack of hockey fans in Prince George. The economy is doing as well as it has in 20 yrs (BTW...Quesnel & Williams Lake are gone due to old barns with small capacity).

Read my post again....130 games under .500 in the last 10 years and NO change in direction. I am a huge hockey fan, but I work hard for my money and I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect the people I am forking out $$$ to should make some effort to put an entertaining product out. I understand Junior hockey is cyclical but the cycle's been all bad here and no changes.

[mjw22]

There isn't a lack of hockey fans in Prince George. The economy is doing as well as it has in 20 yrs (BTW...Quesnel & Williams Lake are gone due to old barns with small capacity).

Read my post again....130 games under .500 in the last 10 years and NO change in direction. I am a huge hockey fan, but I work hard for my money and I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect the people I am forking out $$$ to should make some effort to put an entertaining product out. I understand Junior hockey is cyclical but the cycle's been all bad here and no changes.

I dont think anyone is blaming the fans. When you have morons running the franchise you lose your fan base. First the casual fan stops coming then the mid term season ticket holders and now the hardcore fans are leaving. Next the team will go which I believe the league has wanted for a few years. The brodskys of this league need to be shown the door.

[the flying moose]

There isn't a lack of hockey fans in Prince George. The economy is doing as well as it has in 20 yrs (BTW...Quesnel & Williams Lake are gone due to old barns with small capacity).

Read my post again....130 games under .500 in the last 10 years and NO change in direction. I am a huge hockey fan, but I work hard for my money and I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect the people I am forking out $$$ to should make some effort to put an entertaining product out. I understand Junior hockey is cyclical but the cycle's been all bad here and no changes.

Bingo. Its like going to a restaurant you know makes crappy food. Are you going to go keep buying food just so the restaurant stays in business or are you going to go to the restaurant that serves good food?

[west coast]

The WHL Prince George Cougars are a better product and entertainment value than anything the bc junior a league can deliver .If the fans of Prince George dont like the Cougars then why do some of you post on whlfans. Thanks for not going to games - i am in Prince George on business and guys like me can waltz into your city and purchase the best seats in the house - unlike most whl rinks where a ticket is a hard to find commodity.

[west coast]

support your local whl team before they pack up and leave behind just a memory .I love the whl and will make sure that the businesses that i deal with support the Cougars while i am in town .Hopefully i dont have to bring clients in to the building kicking and screaming lol

[mjw22]

support your local whl team before they pack up and leave behind just a memory .I love the whl and will make sure that the businesses that i deal with support the Cougars while i am in town .Hopefully i dont have to bring clients in to the building kicking and screaming lol

As long as the current owners are they you may have to. New ownership would bring back the fans but that wont happen. The league needs a second team on the island and its this one.

[patsdude114]

Here is what the arena looks like right after a game in which the Cougars won 4-0 last night.

http://t.co/JHtwviFe

Bored at 340am while getting my dump truck loaded with snow but my god is that sickening to see a pic like that, I don't see how the team can survive in PG with attendance like that. Does Brodsky make tons of money with another business that he wants to take a financal loss for tax purposes? Just doesn't make much sense why hed want to keep owning the cougars with crowds like that.

[mjw22]

Here is what the arena looks like right after a game in which the Cougars won 4-0 last night.

http://t.co/JHtwviFe

Sad I feel bad for those players. RR stepped in when Por was like this why not PG . Brodsky's thats why .They do what they like in this league.

[Western Elite]

Did the Brodsky family disown you as a foster child along the way by change? It seems as though you have a major axe to grind with both Brodsky owned teams?For the life me, I can't understand why you just don't stick to talking about your own team a bit more, instead of continually trying to goad other teams fans and hope for reaction which is what you seem to feed off of!

[johnnyradiant]

Here is a thread link from /06 here

http://www.whlfans.ca/showthread.php?t=5181

looking hard for that under 3K club to buy his way out, but still hasn't. Musta found a small print clause he forgot sticking in that if he gets under 1K through the gates he doesn't have to buy out but gets bought out?

[johnnyradiant]

Can't even crack 1700 with "1000" give aways for an almost sure win. Must be a real downer for any real fans that were there.