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dondo
11-02-2013, 01:26 AM
For those of you who don't like reading me rant about officials, you better skip this recap. Griffiths is the new Kirk/Zalaski/Rehman.

Chiefs Club Giants
Vancouver 4 Spokane 6


The Giants were pretty tired after a plethora of games in minimal nights, but they were battling hard versus an always tenacious Chiefs squad and one that could be considered one of the elite in the West. 20 yr olds Holmberg and Aviani have been deadly so far and a 5 ( 4G and 1A) point night for Helewka was the story. The Giants were coming off of a decent road trip and were on a three game winning streak prior to the start of this game. It seems the other teams are noticing because the Chiefs had their top goalie between the pipes and not their back-up. The boys did a good job of battling back, but the Chiefs took advantage of some seams and made some great plays. They had a bunch of help from the zebras though.

I have a new referee to hate and his name is Adam Griffiths. He has sucked in pretty much every outing I have seen him officiate (and I use that term lightly) so far this season. The Giants lost a battle of the special teams, but they also had to battle a couple of refs that didn’t actually know the rules. Not that the Chiefs were not full value for the win. They checked hard and tight and were tough to play against, but a ton of infractions were missed or glossed over and then late in a close game a couple of seriously bogus calls really tilted the ice. First of all when you have position on a player it is not holding. Secondly, a clean hit where you leave your feet after connecting is not charging. Don’t even get me started on the 5 on 3 to start the game. Meanwhile Franson got levelled from behind, no call and a forechecking Giant got an obvious stick in the mouth in plain sight of Griffiths and no call.

Why are you even wearing stripes?

The game opened with the Giants getting tagged for two infractions on the same play. I admit the slash was pretty obvious, but the charge? Really? Anyway Giants killed that 5 on 3 off and it stayed tied until Spokane found twine. The Giants replied about four minutes later when Jackson Houck just tipped a Mason Geertsen shot past Eric Williams, who had a vocal local contingent in the stands. Blake Orban got the other helper. Early in the second Spokane scored their first PP marker. A solo effort further padded the Spokane lead. In the third Spokane scored again, early. Travis McEvoy got one back, assisted by Brett Kulak. Kulak scored a PP marker not long after to pull the Gs to within one. The Chiefs were gifted PP chances on what appeared to me to both be clean plays. Spokane scored while a delayed penalty was being called and everything stopped for a minute. I’m not sure if the puck hit the netting and was not called down or the Giants thought they had touched the puck and it should have been blown dead, but the puck found twine while everyone stood there expecting a whistle. Odd goal. The next goal came on the ensuing PP, when everyone was still shell-shocked. Cain Franson got it close with a PP marker late in the game. Popoff got the lone helper on a play, but I could have sworn I saw Kulak make the initial a cross-ice pass to Popoff and then cross-crease to Franson for a nice post and in goal. Maybe it tipped off a Chief before getting to Popoff. The last five minutes really was a confused mess fuelled by shoddy officials and confused players.

Team Notes: Eder and Osipov sitting, along with Leone and Dosanjh. Atwal back in. This marked the Giants 6th game in 8 nights. Houck had 9 points (5G 4A) in 5 games coming into this one while Thrower had 7 points (1G, 6A) in his last 5 games.

Rookie Watch: not much from the rookies tonight, a good shift here and there, but very little of impact.

Fight Night: two in the first and then nothing after that. Mason Geertsen v. Riley Whittingham .. Geertsen simply demolished Whittingham in this one. Dalton Sward v. Carter Proft – I felt Sward handled Proft well, Proft tried a couple shots after taking a few but fell down easily.

Zebra Cage: Adam Griffiths and Fraser Lawrence. Abysmal. These two need to go back to their rule books and bone up on what it is they think they are calling. They ruined what was a pretty good game for me, missed a bunch and called cheap and wrong stuff when the game had momentum. First game I have seen this season where the reffing was a major deciding factor in the outcome.

The Giants were out-shot 35-27 by the Chiefs. The G’s were 2 for 4 on the PP, while the Chiefs went 3 for 6.

Make no mistake the Chiefs are an excellent team that doggedly close-checked the Giants. The home town squad had very little room to move or make plays, but I love how they battled through the adversity and found twine against a tough opponent. I appreciated how the guys did not give in and did not let the turns of fortune affect their drive. They made some poor errors, none of which really bit them but they were out-matched by a top team. Jared Rathjen was pretty solid for the most part, but he allowed a couple of soft ones and was out and out screened by his own player on one he did not see.

I liked the Giants battle despite a bit of fatigue, which revealed itself on some longer shifts when players got caught not changing quickly enough. A few puck bobbles and couple of poor give-aways, but not as many as I figured the Chiefs pressure would elicit. It was good hockey and edgy, but for some poor decisions. I would have liked to see the Gs fully finish some of their checks harder though and not execute glancing fly-bys, but I cannot fault the effort of most of the players. Guys I do not normally see back-checking hard were below their own goal-line digging out pucks.

No rest for the wicked, as tomorrow the Giants face a rested Kamloops squad who are probably hungry for a win versus a Vancouver team, which so far has had their number. The boys make the trek into the interior Saturday for a 7pm tilt versus the Blazers. Hay has said that Payton Lee, who as had success versus the Kamloops squad, will be in net.

The person who selected the 3 stars tonight left the booth ten minutes into the third and as such chose badly as lots happened for the latter ten minutes. If the person cannot stay for the entire game then they should not be choosing the three stars, just saying. Suppose the Giants managed the full come-back and won in regulation or scored in OT? I wonder how much this happens. There have been a few games where I was scratching my head after hearing the star selections, maybe that’s the reason.

Three Stars

1. Mitch Holmberg (4A)
2. Adam Helewka (4G, 1A)
3. Mike Aviani (1G, 1A)

Dondo’s Doghouse: The officials, all of them.

Dondo’s Hardhat: goes to Travis McEvoy – he worked his butt off and made things happen most every shift. Sparked the come-back in the third with some great effort and was a solid plus player.

Giantsfan
11-02-2013, 05:43 AM
Good to know I wasn't the only one who thought the officials decided the game. They ruined any chance of a Giants comeback & were 100% the deciding factor in the game. How the hell these guys keep their jobs year after year is beyond reason. The entire game of hockey at the professional & junior level is atrocious.

I don't have much else to say except it was a wasted effort by Rathjen because of the officiating. He played great & I would like to see more starts for him & less from Lee.

Despite the score, I thought Rathjen was their best player. Another strong effort from Kulak & McEvoy.

JMoney1988
11-02-2013, 04:07 PM
I know what you mean, Vancouver brethren......, you should have seen last night, by the way the refs were Vetter and a new guy Peluk (must have been 5"2'........, anyway it's 2-2, middle of the second period, right in front of Vetter, our player gets high sticked, no call, says something to Vetter, gets a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, 9 seconds into the powerplay, Swift Current scores, completely changed the course of the game.........., I swear some of these refs need to get there heads checked....., anyway I love your posts Dondo, pretty much every game is about the refs playing bad

dondo
11-03-2013, 06:30 PM
yeah true JMoney it's one of those things than really bug me, but that's why I relegated it to it's own section, so others who don't agree can choose not to read it, but this one really was not sour grapes the officiating was awful (from my perspective, front row corner).

I think the Chiefs played a hell of a game though, but it was one which felt like it could have gone to OT as the Giants were battling as well, but those late calls shifted the whole game for me. That's when it really :burningmad: me

Regan Vetter is inconsistent in my experience. I have seen good and bad games from him. Wait until you get Matt Kirk out there as my sources say he's been shifted to the East - maybe he got tired of us chanting "Kirk you suck" every time he reffed a game here. Please continue the traditional for us in the East will ya? ;) :D

dondo
11-03-2013, 06:38 PM
I don't have much else to say except it was a wasted effort by Rathjen because of the officiating. He played great & I would like to see more starts for him & less from Lee.

Despite the score, I thought Rathjen was their best player. Another strong effort from Kulak & McEvoy.

Don't agree re: Rathjen versus Lee, but I am happy to see him get back-up starts and force Lee to be better. Lee shouldn't be getting a free pass, but neither should he be getting relegated to back of the bus after a poor start or two, he needs to be given the chance to make mistakes and learn from them and with the team actually scoring consistently it might happen.

It was interesting listening to the new goalie coach being interviewed as it felt like there were aspects of Lee's game he felt might have been missed in recent years and needed adjustment, but he likes the package Lee brings. Seems to be a fan of Rathjen too, so hopefully our goaltending duo will enable us to win a few games we might not have won by stealing a few. Right now it's been the forwards "stealing" wins for the goalies.

Giantsfan
11-03-2013, 07:46 PM
As usual, me & you disagree, but I would ride whoever is the hotter of the two, & right now, I think Rathjen's play is better than Lee. There is no question that he handles the puck a lot better than Lee, minus the one blunder vs Spokane where he passed it up the middle. He looks a lot more confident when playing the puck.

Lee let's in too many soft goals for my liking, & I'm sure Spokane would've scored on that 2 man advantage if Lee was in net.

I'm hoping they can get the goalie situation sorted out because it's the weakest position on the team. If they get some solid goaltending & the power play gets stronger, I believe they can catch Victoria.

Right now, it's the forwards & defense that are getting wins for the team. Kulak & Thrower have been solid at both ends & have boosted the power play somewhat.

Either way, we will agree that it's nice to see the Giants getting some wins & moving up in the standings.

dondo
11-04-2013, 12:19 PM
oh we agree on a lot, but not the goalie situation.

Think about this though -

19 yr old goalie who was out and out released by a team losing the numbers game of too many young goalies (Victoria) better than him.

17 yr old goalie finding his game, improving as he gets more starts (he's making a lot less mistakes and dumb mis-reads than he was earlier and he's getting better back-check support now.

I would certainly hope the 19 yr old goalie is better, but is he that much better? In my opinion no. I don't see him being the goalie of the future and I don't see him having the ability to improve beyond where he is now much more. On the other hand the young goalie has shown potential for growth, is growing and the only way he learns is in game-situations.

In junior hockey you can't always play the hot hand. We did that with Adam Morrison who got us a few more wins squeaking us into the playoffs and then promptly got swept as we were not really that competitive. Combine that with the fact that that year we did not develop our younger goalies and as result put us in goalie limbo for going on three years now.

I would say that the biggest fail of the franchise since the Memorial Cup win has been our goalie management.

The best teams in this leagiue consistently let their young 'tenders play. It's rare that golaies will play both games of a back to back - yet we have been doing that for years now and it has not benefited us. We need to look at the example of the top teams and emulate them. Can you tell this is a issue I care a lot about? ;)

johnnyradiant
11-04-2013, 02:31 PM
Don't know if I can out right agree about back to backs but lean heavily on the side of agreeing when the back-up is on the learning curve too, rather than just a back-up.

I don't think Rathjen got the nod for Fri night because he was so much hotter. I think that may have played a factor.

I don't know how right or wrong it is but I think Hay believed he figured if he was gonna split on the weekend he wanted what he believed to be a better shot at winning the 'easier' of the two games.

Giantsfan
11-04-2013, 06:47 PM
oh we agree on a lot, but not the goalie situation.

Think about this though -

19 yr old goalie who was out and out released by a team losing the numbers game of too many young goalies (Victoria) better than him.

17 yr old goalie finding his game, improving as he gets more starts (he's making a lot less mistakes and dumb mis-reads than he was earlier and he's getting better back-check support now.

If, as you say, the back checking support is there for Lee, then it's also there for Rathjen.


I would certainly hope the 19 yr old goalie is better, but is he that much better? In my opinion no. I don't see him being the goalie of the future and I don't see him having the ability to improve beyond where he is now much more.

I don't believe anyone thinks Rathjen is the "goalie of the future". Can he improve on his play so far? Sure, anyone can with more games & more practice. Will he? Time will tell.


On the other hand the young goalie has shown potential for growth, is growing and the only way he learns is in game-situations.

Lee still lets in the soft goal & does not handle the puck well. Sure, he's shown potential for growth, but he's 17, if he didn't show anything he wouldn't be with the Giants. At this point in the season, I don't think he's shown enough to be considered the number one starter.


In junior hockey you can't always play the hot hand. We did that with Adam Morrison who got us a few more wins squeaking us into the playoffs and then promptly got swept as we were not really that competitive.

Adam Morrison was arguably the best goalie the Giants have ever had. He was exhausted by the playoffs because he had played 57 games. The Giants also weren't swept. They lost in six games, losing one in OT, & I wouldn't blame losing the series completely on Morrison. He also played so well that he earned a contract from the Bruins.


Combine that with the fact that that year we did not develop our younger goalies and as result put us in goalie limbo for going on three years now.

I disagree. The Giants had Jackson Whistle & Brendan Jensen. At the beginning of the season, Scott Bonner mentioned that Whistle was the best goalie that they have ever had in their system & were going to groom him for the following season. Jensen flat out sucked, but Whistle was supposed to be the guy they were planning on grooming for 2012-13 but for whatever reason, he fell out of favor of someone, probably Hay & they shipped him to the Rockets. Whistle did play 21 games so it's not like he rode the pine all season. They have since been on record of saying that was a big blunder, one of the few bad moves Bonner has made.


I would say that the biggest fail of the franchise since the Memorial Cup win has been our goalie management.

No argument from me on this. It's been terrible. The other issues I feel were a huge fail since 2007 is that the team was also too small & too wimpy for much too long. They also failed to find a quarterback for the power play, using Manning by default.


The best teams in this leagiue consistently let their young 'tenders play. It's rare that golaies will play both games of a back to back - yet we have been doing that for years now and it has not benefited us. We need to look at the example of the top teams and emulate them. Can you tell this is a issue I care a lot about? ;)

That isn't necessarily the case. If a team doesn't have good goalies to develop you won't be a top team. The Giants were a couple wins away from the 2006 Cup with Slade, a goalie they picked up for a song. So I believe it can be done as long as you have a goalie, not necessarily one a team grooms for a few years.

As for playing goalies in back to back situations, I have no problem with that as long as the goalie is hot. Morrison, Slade & Sexsmith all played in multiple back to back situations & they won a lot. Also, goalies have to play back to back in the playoffs so I don't see anything wrong with that. If you look at the top teams, check to see how often their top goalie plays. Carey Price, Kelly Guard, Leland Irving were three examples of a goalies who played often.

Giantsfan
11-04-2013, 06:49 PM
I don't think Rathjen got the nod for Fri night because he was so much hotter. I think that may have played a factor.

Rathjen is also from Prince George so Hay wanted to give him a start. He also knew Lee had played a lot while Rathjen was injured so resting Lee was in the cards.

johnnyradiant
11-06-2013, 06:22 PM
I was saying the second of the back to back games for Rathjen was not necessarily all because Rathjen did good on the first game. I don't think Lee, unless with an undisclosed injury NEEDED the Fri game off as much as they wanted what THEY feel is their better goalie for the Sat game, where they felt there was the better chance for 2 pts. I totally get the start in PG especially with Lee having little choice in starting with Rathjen's earlier injury.