Buyers or Sellers?

[dsquared]

With the trade deadline about a month away I raise the question of should the Pats be buyers or sellers or stand Pats?

IMO - I think the Pats should be sellers. In the last 15 years the Pats either stood still on the January deadline or traded prospects or draft picks (the future) for a so called marquis player. These trades never produced results and helped the Pats advance beyond the first round playoff and win a second round game. These trades do not pay off and always hurt the future of the team.

If we traded away some of our 20 yo's or Chandler we could recoup and improve our draft picks that we gave up to acquire them.
At very worst they could be stand Pats

[patsdude114]

I for one do not want to see this team being buyers, now with that said I think Lang will make a tweak traade or 2 but nothing major by any means. I also have this feeling that he is going to roll the dice on Stephenson coming back as a 20yr old which could pay off in spades if he does return. If Chandler signs a contract during the xmas break consider him dealt at trade deadline, no questions asked.

We have 2 20yr olds that I know will get phone calls about, Leier & Stevenson are 2 top 20yr olds this year who have been scoring a lot. I don't think any move we make though will really hurt us, I think Laang will maake sure he gets a younger roster player in return to fill a team need this year & the future.

So not buyers but not really sellers either, tweakers ;)

[witness]

I don't think you do anything.

Draft picks are nice, but not always a sure thing. The Pats have had good success with their list pick ups. Remember Carter Hanson is a first round pick and Conner Gay was a list pick up. Both from the same age group, who is more valuable right now?

The other downfall is that when you draft the kids the organization has to put them on their protection list. That means you are dropping some of the past selections and I think the Pats have decent talent on that list.

Realistically, if four players in one drafting year make your squad that is great. I think the Pats are in a much better position than they were 4 years ago. Right now the draft is about quality, not quantity.

It is a balancing act. Look at Brandon. They have way too many kids in the 15, 16 and 17 year old age group. Brandon can't find enough playing time for the kids that are on the team and they can only list so many of them. It is a great asset, but Brandon will not be a buyer this year.

[Landon]

With the trade deadline about a month away I raise the question of should the Pats be buyers or sellers or stand Pats?

IMO - I think the Pats should be sellers. In the last 15 years the Pats either stood still on the January deadline or traded prospects or draft picks (the future) for a so called marquis player. These trades never produced results and helped the Pats advance beyond the first round playoff and win a second round game. These trades do not pay off and always hurt the future of the team.

If we traded away some of our 20 yo's or Chandler we could recoup and improve our draft picks that we gave up to acquire them.
At very worst they could be stand Pats

Being a Raider fan, I would love to have Dyson Stevenson and Boston Leier in a Raider jersey. We could give you our three 20yr olds for Stevenson and Leier haha.

[patsdude114]

I don't think you do anything.

Draft picks are nice, but not always a sure thing. The Pats have had good success with their list pick ups. Remember Carter Hanson is a first round pick and Conner Gay was a list pick up. Both from the same age group, who is more valuable right now?

The other downfall is that when you draft the kids the organization has to put them on their protection list. That means you are dropping some of the past selections and I think the Pats have decent talent on that list.

Realistically, if four players in one drafting year make your squad that is great. I think the Pats are in a much better position than they were 4 years ago. Right now the draft is about quality, not quantity.

It is a balancing act. Look at Brandon. They have way too many kids in the 15, 16 and 17 year old age group. Brandon can't find enough playing time for the kids that are on the team and they can only list so many of them. It is a great asset, but Brandon will not be a buyer this year.


I agree a lot with this post draft picks are nice but you do raise some good points that they all have to go on your protective list which means you gotta drop some as well. With the recent success we have had in the last 2 drafts plus a couple list players like Mortlock, Berg, Schneider the Pats are setting themselves up nicely to move forward.

Sure we are lacking a talented 17yr old player. A guy like Stephenson could bring in a quality 17yr old along with a 1st rd pick which would help. Im sure even Leier or Stevenson could bring back a quality 17yr old. We all know our '96 group is weak and some how we are going to have to improve that age group for next season as a good group of 18yr olds is usually the difference of a strong team and a bad team.

I really don't see Lang making a big splash at all come trade deadline, I know last night as I was watching Kamloops Souto really impressed me a lot and thought to myself he would be a nice addition into our top 6 which would help us in the long run plus he would be a lock to return as a 20yr old but then I also snapped back into reality that the cost for him would most definitely be a 1st rd pick & most likely a prospect as well which as a fan I'm not willing to part with our 1st rd pick this year at all.

I guess we also have to remember as well is we are still adding in 2 top end 18yr olds into our lineup once they return from injury (most likely after xmas break) adding those 2 guys alone is like bringing in a quality player from another team. Lets face it we are only 2.5yrs into our rebuild already and we are sitting in a tie for 5th in the conference, if you would of told me that 2.5yrs ago I would of laughed at you and said you needed to go on some really good medication.

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

Now is a chance to strike. We add a player, possibly a D, and go for the second round this year. Its a close conference this year without a standout team(and a weak conf with three teams basically out already). Committing could make the difference between 4th, or falling to 8th.

As I said in another thread, we need experience for next year's leaders, and the ones leaving this year deserve a good sendoff. Next year may be more important, but this is the test run, and a good opportunity to get break our playoff drought.

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

I also have this feeling that he is going to roll the dice on Stephenson coming back as a 20yr old which could pay off in spades if he does return. If Chandler signs a contract during the xmas break consider him dealt at trade deadline, no questions asked.

Stephenson isn't coming back if he keeps it up. He is a relatively high pick who is breaking out, with no discernible flaws or particular reason to be held back.

99 percent sure he will get signed and play AHL in Hershey next year

[Bighat]

I hope we don't make any major moves, but we could tweak the lineup a little. I really like the way Hanson is playing and see him in the top 3 lines next year with more scoring. Also I wouldn't be surprised if chandler is back next year. We do need 1 big dman, and need to trade Williams. I liked what I saw from mortlack last nite.

[patsdude114]

Stephenson isn't coming back if he keeps it up. He is a relatively high pick who is breaking out, with no discernible flaws or particular reason to be held back.

99 percent sure he will get signed and play AHL in Hershey next year

oh I don't expect him back either I never once said I think he will be back, just thinking Lang is going to roll the dice on him is all I just don't think Lang moves him unless he is signed before deadline then I think he becomes a player who bids the highest

[RWAH]

Great posts by all. IMO we should be tweeky sellers. We need to upgrade the 17s and we need a strong draft in 2014 and 2015. If we do not improve the 17s in two seasons they are the 19s and the cost to trade up then will be very expensive. Sam Steel needs some talent around him so the 17 and the 2014 drafts and 2015 drafts must be talented. (pressure on scouting for those two drafts). We do not have a 3rd 4th or 6th pick in 2014 so we should try to recover picks in those or earlier rounds.

[witness]

Being a Raider fan, I would love to have Dyson Stevenson and Boston Leier in a Raider jersey. We could give you our three 20yr olds for Stevenson and Leier haha.

And to think, last year Prince George didn't want Dyson. Watch the kid night in and night out and you gain an appreciation of what he brings to the table. He skates well and has decent hands, but most importantly brings the intangibles, grit and leadership.

[Landon]

And to think, last year Prince George didn't want Dyson. Watch the kid night in and night out and you gain an appreciation of what he brings to the table. He skates well and has decent hands, but most importantly brings the intangibles, grit and leadership.
Dyson Stevenson has always been an eye catcher in Prince Albert. I have noticed watching him that he can score, pass, skate, backcheck, forecheck, hit and fight the best of the best. To me he is one of the players that you hate playing against but would love to have him on your team.

[patsdude114]

I think anyone who is a true hockey fan can actually appreicate how Stevenson plays the game. He is the type of player every coach wants on there team, he will get another chance at pro hockey like he did last year in the ECHL I'm sure he will find his way onto a AHL team next season with an amatuer contract.

[RWAH]

Here are some mid season stats. The Pats record against the 4 teams above us in the standings (Cal, Edm, SC, and the Hat) 2 wins and 7 losses. And against the 4 teams below us. (Brn, Koot,RD, PA) (Brandon and Kootney are 1 point back and Red Deer and Prince Albert are 4 points off) 2 wins and 7 losses. Against the bottom 3 (MJ, Sask, Leth) we are 10 wins and 0 losses and lastly opposing west division we are 4 wins and 3 losses

After Christmas we play 9 games against the teams currently above us and 15 games against the 4 teams directly below us.

IMO the current standings flatters the Pats as the schedule played mors games against the bottom 3 teams. However we do have a second half advantage with a lot more home games than road games

I still think we need to be careful sellers to upgrade the 17s and strength our 2014 draft

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

While those stats do have some merit, you also have to look at our road games. We have played more than everybody and we have still done well. Some teams havnt even gone through the west conference yet, which is far better this year than us.

And mostly while we have injuries to notable players.

When those players come back and (some)other teams lose theirs to WJRS, we get to play the rest of the season mostly at home. Even if you are partly right, I cant see us being worse than a .500 team, especially if we add a decent player to our depth. Most importantly the mindset around the org is we are doing well and for once have contending aspirations. We should take advantage of it and get some experience for Steel's future linemates and a good sendoff for leier and both the stevensons.

[Fight Guy]

I feel they should wait till they see what they do with some bodies back after the break. This last handful of games, the Pats have been short handed, and lost more players along the way. You could tell Stevenson has been missed the past couple games. Some of these games could have had better results if we had a healthy line up.

Personally, trading Leier and Stephenson would benefit the Pats a lot, and finally be a seller with some great return. On the other hand, Leier has had a lot to do with the Pats work ethic this year. Gradually, everyone started to work a lot harder a lot more often. Leier's hard working attitude has rubbed off on many players, including Stephenson. Chandler came back this season with NHL camp syndrome. The first month, he was really annoying me with his laziness. Now, like I have said before, he has that "Eberle feeling", when every time he has the puck, you know he has a chance of putting it in the back of the net. Having Leier around for the rest of the season, even if the playoffs aren't as long as we would hope, will continue to benefit the team. Not to mention, Zgraggen comes from another winning organization and also knows how to play winning hockey.

With the way the Pats are playing, if they add at least one good defensemen (preferably two), and another forward, the Pats will be in a good position to actually make some noise. Defense has to be a priority though.

Again, they have to use four or five games to decide what they really want to do. I really don't want to see a complete sell off as the Pats are in a MUCH better position than I could have ever imagined at this point. I said the Pats would have to be within the top four to even consider buying, but they have shown they can hang with the big boys, and with some more defense, could even become one of the big boys. I mean, the Pats are only a few games out of first in the division. While the other teams have not been playing so well (PA/SC), the Pats have been getting better.

I'm done babbling for now.

[patsdude114]

Fight Guy I agree with everything you have said, especially the Leier part rubbing off on every player in that dressing room that 2nd rd pick we paid for him has been worth it & then some. We needed a player like him to show this franchise the way of what it takes to be a winner. That's actually priceless, I doubt without Leier we are even a .500 team most likely not even in aa playoff spot & down with MJ & Stoon.

We need to improve the 17yr old age group that is no secret, Brooks is not the answer but maybe Schoiler can stick around & give us a bigger body upfront. It will be interesting to see what Lang & Hockey Operations want to do, can tell you know Cameron wants to make the playoffs & will prob be pretty pissed off if he gets stripped of a lot of talent. He is a winner & wants to bring that here & it starts with year 1

[RWAH]

It is tough to have your cake and eat it too.

If we buy 2 stud d-men and a forward what is the cost and what do we have to trade. our 2014 draft is currently 1,2,5,7,8,9,,, and no team will trade away a stud d man cheap. minimum will be a promising roster player and a early round draft. We know our 17s are weak so its one of Zimmer, Reagan, Schneider and a 1st round pick.: times 2 or 3. to get the three additions.

SAJ you want support for Steel that will come from the 16s, and 17s and the 2014 draft. buying now is adding 19s and 20s who will not be here when Steel is here but we will give up that support to buy this season.

Play with the big dogs, We are 2 and 7 with the big dogs. we are 2 and 7 with the medium dogs. its the small dogs we have our way with.

We have a home loaded schedule in the second half and are 7 and 3 at home but again that is 4 small dogs, 1 medium 1 big and 1 west conference.

someone talked about the US swing. only Moose Jaw and P A have to make the swing in the new year.

I sure agree the Boston Leier has single handed changed the culture on the team and would love to see him complete the year here.

I am not suggesting a fire sale but we need to acquire a quality 17 or may be 2 and 1 or 2 2014 1st 2nd or 3rd round picks. That could be accomplished in a single player trade if the right team comes calling.

Enough rambling

[patsdude114]

I don't think anyone wants 2 stud Dmen or even 1 stud Dman, were just looking for alittle size to add alittle depth is all, a perfect guy would be Jensen from MH but who knows where that ship is going.

If we get some D help it will go along ways in competing against the so called BIG DOGS, we have scored more goals this year at the xmas break then I have seen in a very long time we just need some help in keeping them out of the net, Zaggren has helped a lot with that but we need another.

[sbtatter]

Is Sam Steel injured, haven't seen his name on any stat sheets in the AMHL AAA for a while

[Bighat]

He has a back injury but do back this weekend.

[sbtatter]

He has a back injury but do back this weekend.

He was on a roll, see if he jumps right back in the saddle

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

you want support for Steel that will come from the 16s, and 17s and the 2014 draft. buying now is adding 19s and 20s who will not be here when Steel is here but we will give up that support to buy this season

When I say that, I refer to the leaders on next year's team when Steel is eligible. Mainly Burroughs and Klimchuk. Its about starting a routine of success, and as was touched on with leier and the culture change, right now this is a wide open conference is an opportunity to achieve success.

As far as buying and selling, I only want some mild reinforcement for this team. Barring any cant refuse offers, some depth reinforcement is sufficient.

[chopper]

Hi guys..new here but long long time supporter and seasons ticket holder. What an outstanding thread and comments. Both knowledgeable and insightful. I've been waffling over buy/sell and probably will for a while. I think I fall into the category of massaging the lineup with smart trades. 120 goals for/130 against tells me we have to get much better defensively in the 2nd half. We have to buy wisely. With Williams at -14 I don't see how we can keep him. Hand -7 has decent size (only 185 lbs) but he is so often injured that he can't be counted on down the stretch. They are both 18 so a lot of teams might be enticed to give up a 19 for an 18, Two rugged d-men would go a long way.

We have the worst PK in the league, McCoy is a penalty killer. He is also like -14 on even strength shifts. He was on the ice for both even strength goals Kelowna scored on us in the second period of that game. In my mind his skating isn't up to par and he should be moved. Brooks could also be used as trade bait. I too would like Souto but I'm sure Kamloops wants a bidding war for him. Maxwell out of Lethbridge might be an option. He is a great skater, kills penalties and has 23 points I believe. He is worth looking at.

I think there are a few roster players and even a few list players we could work with to get what we need. However we just can't give up any more draft picks. Some crafty fine tuning would make a world of difference.

[patsdude114]

Welcome to the site chopper :) hope you enjoy it here & bring your insight with the team & league :)

I agree with your comments about the players you mentioned but with that said its hard to give teams the players who are playing like arse for you, we don't them but yet neither do other teams. Hand has been nothing but injury prone here but tell me what team is gonna want to take a chance on a player like that now after seeing it back to back years now?

As for Brooks he has little potential he hasn't improved much at all since last season he's too small for someone to think he deserves a chaange of scenery. As for Williams he plays too many minutes that's the biggest problem with him, he does a lot of good things out there, he is a good skating Dman. The biggest knock on him last year was he wasn't strong enough, this year I have lost track of penalties he has taken which was 2mins for being stronger then the other guy. He has never been a defensive specialist while growing up, he needs to be with a more defensive minded Dman which we lack.

Goaltending has been an issue again down the xmas stretch, MacAuley hasn't looked the same like he did in November. But again that can also fall back abit onto the defense.

[RWAH]

Chopper Welcome aboard. look forward to your posts. I think its consensus that we need some smart trades that will upgrade the D. (a 200+lb , 17 yr old Dman that can play top 4 minutes ) that will cost more than McCoy or Brooks or Hand or Williams.
I would go a step further than not trading any picks. IMO we need to recoup 2 picks in 2014 and in the (1st, 2nd or 3rd) rounds. As we sit we get one pick between (1 and 21 Portland forfeited), one pick between 22 and 43 then one between 89 and 109 and lastly one each round after 132.
On our goal tending McAuley has been slipping. Coach Cameron on the Sports Cage on Thursday agreed but thought it was a case of physical and mental fatigue. I am sure if it continues Schneider will see more and more game time
Once again welcome aboard and if you can recruit any others "the more the merrier"

[chopper]

That's very kind Patsdude114! You are spot on about organizations taking what we don't want. Lang has to become more like McCrimmon..LOL.:) Williams has always had a hard time with his pins, and often gets flagged for holding or hooking. He is similar to Burroughs but he overcomes his physical shortcomings with his skating and decision making. He is also a plus d-man.

If we sell it leaves a somewhat negative message with the coach and remaining players. It's hard to ask a coach to win but take his assets away. Players who have been selling out will wonder "why". If we don't do anything we are a 78-82 point team and scratching to get 7th or 8th spot and looking at an early exit. Simply because the depth is not there, particularly defence and goaltending. We also perpetuate the cycle of getting nothing for our assets while we are going nowhere. I am all for buying if we can pull off a couple larcenous trades.

You are right about MacAuley. He started poor and then hit a groove for a bit. He has now reverted back to a lot of his old ways. You will only go as far as your goaltending will take you in the playoffs. Schneider will be great but needs seasoning. MacAuley was at one point 8th in the league but has now slipped to 20th. If this continues he will be on the second page. You can't win in the playoffs with 20th ranked tending. I am concerned about hat he can do in those circumstances.

We can score somewhat but; We have a last ranked PK, we give up too many goals, play too soft defensively and take too many penalties. Not a good combination. If we can't do anything about the goaltending situation we will have to address the others. The coach can deal with the PK and the discipline. The GM will have to deal with acquiring some defensive help. We need two big physical d-men. I don't know where we will get them or how we will get them. Regardless of the means we really need them. Time for some Lang magic or is that only McCrimmon magic..LOL

[chopper]

Thank you RWAH:). Yes there are many dynamics involved. The team is in a really strange place. They are on the higher side of average but that can go the other way quickly. Unless we think we can win two rounds of playoffs we may have to revisit our situation. In order to win those two rounds we will need defensive help. How do we get that? If we don't have the depth and goaltending to win a conference, do we take a step back and reset? We want to ensure that when Steel is 18 and 19 that we have a couple more like him on the roster, and enough depth to win a championship. That may require a little pain now. We don't want to pay the organizational price we paid not moving Eberle and Tuebert, and the accompanying backlash. I don't think one round is good enough to stand pat. Like I said I am really conflicted as to what to do but it's either buy or sell. I don't think stand pat will work.

[patsdude114]

I really don't think we will stand pat but I also don't think we will be buyers or sellers. I do think Stephenson will be dealt though, there just isn't enough to go on that he will be back as a 20yr old. Yes he has no contract right now which does favour in a return but that's nothing for a contract to be handed to him after the season's end. I think he is moved for a 17yr old roster player & a quality prospect with a pick & there will be some sort of compensation added in incase by some mircle he is returned as a 20yr old.

I also believe that either 1 of Leier or Stevenson will be moved (not both) we will also grab a younger roster player in the deal (in either this move or the Stephenson 1 there will be a Dman coming to us).

I do believe that we will make tweeks but wil still be competive to make the playoffs & Steel will get a taste of WHL playoffs to further his development before next season. I'm going to have to go to roddy's blog & listen to his sports cage show on thursday now it has me curious now......

[chopper]

I agree that Stephenson will likely get a contract by seasons end. I think Leier and Stevenson will earn free agent ones as well. In reality our 20 year olds are three month players is all.

IMO moving Stephenson and Leier puts us pretty close to being sellers:). While those two would bring a big bounty, it seems that Stevenson is the one most generally coveted by many teams GM's. If we were to move Stephenson and Leier it would be in the team's best interest to move Dyson as well.

Sometimes people forget that if three major deals were made we would get back: two pretty good overagers, at least two good young roster players, and undoubtedly a few high placed draft picks. I think with reassignments, trades, and list revamping we could make the room for any new roster players acquired.

The lower placed teams could be king makers to a point. The fly in the ointments is whether or not teams like P.A. or Red Deer are going to be sellers. Red Deer has unloaded Dumba already so there seems to be an answer there. P.A. has dropped like a stone. Jobs may on the line there so they might be buyers, which will up the value of assets other teams have. Kamloops, Lethbridge, MJ, Saskatoon, and PG seem to be the teams that could be most enticed to deal. If P.A. were to join the sellers group, they have a lot of assets much like the Pats do.

[patsdude114]

Wow I gotta quit coming on here after a few to many xmas drinks. What I said above is not what I actually mean, most is right but I think it will only be 1 of the 3 I mentioned which I think will only be Stephenson. If things fall thru maybe a last minute move involving Leier or Stevenson but I think keeping those 2 20yr olds around would have greater rewards on the young guys.

I woulld also be fine if we just stand pat as well, we have 2 18yr olds coming off injuries after xmas break who are huge parts of our team. We were playing some very good teams without them & managed to stay with til the end (minus the cgy game) with those 2 who knows maybe we knock off KEL, MH & definitely KAM & also who knows maybe we squeeze a point out of the CGY game as well.

Just want to wish all the posters here a merry christmas the new year part can wait we got games before that happens for god sakes

[chopper]

:D:D LOL now I get what you were trying to say :D:D. Some guy after a few pops end up married or with a new tattoo:).

Like I said in the beginning I am conflicted. I am also ok with standing pat provided they find a way to upgrade three players. It's hard to sell when your only 5 points out of first in the division. You also can't lose sight we really haven't really been able to beat any east contenders. 20 of our points came against MJ, S'toon, and Lethbridge. Yes there was a strange win against Edmonton before anyone was back, and an extra time win against MH. Standing pat has some serious drawbacks.

I get the sense that they will try to do some minor upgrades particularly on defence. They may also try to add a good skating penalty killer to improve our terrible PK. McCoy and Hansen are like -14 when playing even strength and they're also on the PK which has been extremely bad. IMO neither are doing the job they were slated for.

It's been hard to get into the team since they have had so few home games. The second half will be better I'm sure. You have to know that different deals and scenarios are being kicked around with other teams. Lang can be an unusual trader so you never know what he might do.

[patsdude114]

My biggest beef with Hansen is souly put on the coaching staff alone, why on god's earth do we have him playing center when (2 things) he was drafted as a defenseman out of bantam and also he has played RW ever since being in the league. I think with his size he would be better if we just put him back to his natural position as a Dman.

I would love to ask this question to Cameron 1on1 and just hear his input on it, I mean Hansen is 6'2 almost 200lbs and ummm isn't that what were looking for is a bigger Dman???

[Bighat]

Hansen has an upside at forward he's big and a good back checker. Your going to see McCoy and Williams shipped out after xmas. Don't forget the world jrs is also going to help Max out, he's often forgot when mentioning 17 yr olds.

[patsdude114]

Hansen has an upside at forward he's big and a good back checker. Your going to see McCoy and Williams shipped out after xmas. Don't forget the world jrs is also going to help Max out, he's often forgot when mentioning 17 yr olds.


Do you see something in your magic crystal ball??? I just have this feeling that Williams isn't going anywhere (unfortunately) as for McCoy I don't see him going anywhere we lack big physical bodies upfront and he does bring that, when he wants to play he is a very tough guy to play against along the wall. His skating is the craps and that's putting it lightly, but if he just sticks to playing his style of game and not play outside his limitations he is an effective player. No he is never going to put up big numbers but to find guys to play his role can be hard now a days not many kids have it in them anymore to play that tough physical style (by no means does this comment mean he is tough in the fighting department)

[chopper]

If the Pats can't locate two bigger d-men I like the idea of possibly using Hanson as a d-man. While he is bigger, he doesn't see the ice well enough to be a playmaking centre. His skating is also somewhat challenged. He and McCoy have been on a line together quite a bit and their plus/minus ratings are some of the poorest on the team while even strength. I also notice they are often on the ice when PP goals are scored against us. IMO he might be more suited to play defence as opposed to forward. He has 2 points, -14 and primarily used as a 3rd or 4th line player as a '96. If your not a scorer you have to be great defensively and not get scored on. I don't think the stats really lie in this case. I respect there are folks who like his attributes and the trade that brought him here, unfortunately I am not one of them.

[patsdude114]

I for 1 was not a fan of the Rodewald/Hansen trade 1 bit, I said back in training camp on here that Rodewald would score 25goals this year for us & I still think he will score that with MJ even with his injury. I really don't know why Lang made that trade it just didn't make sense at all, as Rodewald will be a 20yr old come next season and would of been on our team as well.

My biggest beef with Hansen though is why in the hell they have him as a center, every faceoff he takes there is a 90% chance he is going to lose it but yet the coaching staff likes to put him out there for a lot of D zone faceoffs on the PK, that the only thing I don't like what our coaching staff does I want to slap each 1 of them on the back of the head as hard as I freaken can maybe with a baseball bat and see if that knocks some sense into them. In the end though I don't mind Hansen, I like him a lot better then Brooks or McCoy (altho I do like how McCoy plays along the wall but it stops there)

[chopper]

Rodewald has 17 points and is only -1 on a bad team. He is a big body who can skate and shoot, and I agree will have 20-25 goals by seasons end. He will be a great 20 year old who will have between 35-40 tallies. Hanson has 2 points and -13 on a pretty decent team. If he was brought in for defensive work it didn't happen. No I don't like the trade. With our rather weak group of 19 year olds we will have to probably buy one next fall like we did this year. When you don't produce your own you have to trade draft picks to get one.

McCoy was ok last season under Conacher's system. He is too slow to play in Cameron's system. He is obviously too slow to be effective and that's why he is -14. We need an upgrade there particularly since he wouldn't be back as a 20 year old at any rate. Brooks has 6 points and is -9. Last year he had 12 points so he is on a pace to equal last years points which is simply not good enough. He is an undersized forward who is in no way dynamic and can't play defence. He isn't delivering the scoring reputation he came with. Kroeker, Berg or Cole should be playing his minutes. They wouldn't be worse.

Speed is an issue that the Pats have struggled with. We are making some strides but still don't match up well with a number of teams. That's why losing Rodewald hurts a bunch. The will be mistakes made at the draft or a trade (entire 2011 draft). The Pats more than most teams seem to hand on to their mistakes rather than moving them along. I hope they recognize what they have to do here before Jan 10th.

[RWAH]

The Hansen / Rodewald trade is not the best but, least we forget, the attemp was to reduce the number of 19s on the roster and Moose Jaw would not trade a bag of practise pucks for Ouelette or D'imico. At the time Sacher's feeling were unknown, MacAuley was at the top of his game so the remaining 19s were and are Stephenson, Christoffer and McCoy. Now McCoy has regressed and hind sight is 20/20
On our 17s I hope the WJC (this year and next) gives Kammarrer a new confidence and desire. not that he did not have desire I hope it just the boost he need to make him a top 6 forward.

[chopper]

Rodwald is a great skater and I think he would have blossomed under Cameron. It doesn't matter now. Hopefully Kammerer gets his WHL game together because up to now he hasn't been impressive in the least.

The 19 year old situation is up in the air I think. Stephenson will most likely sign and play AHL. McCoy won't get one of the 20 year spots. Christopher has a good chance if his play continues to get better. Will MacAuley be impact enough goalie to use a 20 year old spot on. Sinitsyn could also be back. He hasn't played much in the last few years so Dallas may think he needs more seasoning before he goes to the AHL. He would however be a two headed monster being an import and overage.

I said that I thought tweaking the lineup might be enough. The more I thought about the more I am convinced it wouldn't get the desired result. We all want to see this team be a league champion and then Memorial Cup champion. In order to do that we will need three dangerous lines, a stout defence, and great goaltending. I have watched Portland, Edmonton, and Kelowna over the years and that's how they do it. They are deep and balanced. That's what we need to do it. If Sam Steel is going to be the centrepiece of a great team, we need to ensure lots of elite 97, 98 and 99's are around him, by whatever means necessary.

[patsdude114]

Not sure what your desired result was going to be even with alittle tweaking, alittle tweaking maay result to a 2nd round appearence but that's about as far as it goes. Realisticly a couple 1st rd wins would be a huge step in the right direction, and I'm sure very much appreicated by our fans who haven't had a lot to cheer for over the years.

We gotta start somewhere, a few 1st rd wins & then next season expect to get out of the 1st rd should be a realistic goal. Let's face it we are no where close to being a WHL champ this year or next year the goal most definitely have to be when Steel is 18/19yrs old to be able to ice a legit contender as long as there is improvement from now til then I think as fans we can't really complain too much. Also let's face it even with Steel kicking around Brandon is still the team to beat with the likes of Clauge & Patrick (fully going on just draft results of course)

[RWAH]

Chopper: To continue and go one step further with Steel as a centre piece his 18 and 19 year old seasons are 2016/17 and 2017/18. One assumes that those seasons we are buyers so we need to stock pile a few draft picks in 2018 and 19. How large of a buyer we would be is dependant on how well we draft in 2014/15/and 16. Our drafting has improved under Chad L so here's hoping it continues to improve.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL THE POSTERS

[chopper]

Your quite right there RWAH, Now is the time to stock pile those assets.


MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL

[chopper]

I feel I have to take the time to debunk the myth that a couple wins in the 1st round mean anything since they don't. In 07-08 the Pats won the east division title, lost out in the first round. They didn't make the playoffs again until 11-12, and were out the following year. There were no lessons learned or experience gained by this. There are many examples of this and shows that making the playoffs one year in no way equates to a deeper playoff run in following years. This team without any moves is still likely to get into the playoffs as a lower seed. No we don't have to be sellers. HOWEVER

However it will likely mean a 1st round exit due to having to play very deep top team. It will also mean that once again we will get nothing in return for the assets which will be gone next season. Deja vu all over again like the Eberle/Tuebert fiasco. The top three would bring a treasure trove of assets to work with when Steel is our feature player. These types of assets could bring a 1st round prospect (98) from this springs draft, a high end 97's, or draft picks in the next two upcoming drafts. Maybe a combination of the aforementioned and in addition likely a couple roster players. With Patrick and Clague, Brandon looks to be in the drivers seat. It's now up to us to parlay our assets into another high end 98 along with draft picks. One more 98 and we could be referred to in the same category as Brandon. Also things have to go right; maybe Finlay changes his mind about US College and joins us. I believe we have to be proactive in getting assets. We need to become a great three line team. If we don't we are going to be continually stuck in this semi-rebuilding mediocre quagmire. This going to playoffs two times in seven years doesn't cut it.

Unless deals have already been done, the six games after the break may very well chart the direction the team is heading, and where it will be three and four years from now.




A JOYOUS HOLIDAY SEASON TO ALL

[RWAH]

I agree lets look a selling these assets we have with a target of three and four years. My last thoughrand a lot can chahge but with Steel size he msy be a 20 . I doubt that but possible. If the pats host the 2019 MC that is 20 year and if a birth in tbe MC is on the table he could be return

[west coast]

I believe the Pats should listen to all trade inquiries.The team should always be looking to build for the future.The Pats have an entertaining team this year but if the price is right ....there should be no untouchables

[Bighat]

I don't think we're in the same situation as eberle, tuebeurt. We have some good young talent for steel to play with, what we need is players 1-2 years older than him, and teams aren't going to give up there 17-18 years for our players. We are going to get draft picks and 15-16 year olds.

[Fight Guy]

I'm still gonna wait to see how they play with a healthier line up. Like West Coast said, if the right offers come in, by all means, sell. But don't sell for the sake of selling. I've been reading this thread for the past week or so and no one seems to have a definitive idea of what the Pats should do, which tells me the Pats have more than nothing this season. This year is not the same as the Eberle/Tuebert year. They went for it that season and it backfired when all was said and done. They weren't looking for playoff experience, they were looking for a league championship/Memorial Cup. In hind sight, they should have been moved that season. But, that was then and now the Pats have much better young prospects. I'm all for Stephenson being moved this season. I still feel Leier and Stevenson should be kept around. Stephenson will possibly even bring on a bidding war. If he is moved, chances are the Pats will get a decent roster player in return, on top of a prospect/high picks.

I won't even compare this season to the Ebs/Teubert season. Totally different situations. In the end, I trust Lang to make the right moves. Everyone was pissed in MJ with him, but it seems the grass isn't greener on the other side, and what Lang did there did wonders for them. Now, they are heading back down from the top as Lang's fingerprints slowly fade away. Look what's going on there now. They're even more pissed at what's going on, and rightfully so.

I've been meaning to reply to a number of posts on here for the past week or so, but every time, I'd stop because I really don't know what the right move is. Plus, everyone seems to say roughly the same things that are on my mind. So, I'll stick with my idea of waiting and seeing a healthy line-up in action again. The Pats really aren't that far off from competing. If only Cameron had been the coach the past few seasons, these players would have two and a half seasons of his systems and development under their belt. I'm sure we'd have seen much better results those seasons too. Like said in the past, Conacher was lucky with Weal in the line-up his first season, and last season, his systems just weren't good enough. I mean, he had roughly the same talent to work with last season, and look at how productive the offense had been under Cameron.

I'll give my full opinion on the matter after the next week or so of games. Till then, I'm gonna continue to read what everyone has to say on here.

Also, nice to see someone come out of nowhere with some actual legit opinions. That's you, Chopper. Welcome!

[patsdude114]

To compare this year to when we haad Eberle & Tuebert isn't even comparable t all. They were elite talent much better then what Stephenson could ever imagine to be. Lang will get calls on Stephenson there is no doubt about that will most likely get calls for Leier & Stevenson as well but they have to be the 'right' trades that help the team in the future & now as wellyou can just make trades just for the sake of making them.

The Pats are already hurting in season ticket holders, we have heard the promises year after year which never seem to be kept. Fans want to see some playoff hockey even if it is only 1 round, they want to see competive hockey. If they piss off more fans & lose more season ticket holders it hurts the bottom line & in the end that's all any franchise truly cares about. No team can operate on a day to day basis losing money especially a privately owned team.

Like it or not there goal is to make the playoffs to get fans back, we have has 2 strong drafts back to back which is going to go along ways in rebuilding this franchise. Don't get me wrong I would be all for seeing Stephenson moved to strengthen our '96 group as well as even another '97 &/or '98 kid. Stephenson will not bring in a king randsom & anyone who thinks so needs to look at things a lot deeper. Yes he is a good player & a lot of teams would prob love to add him to their roster but he isn't the type of player that is going to make the difference in winning a championship. I think Stephenson will be about the 3rd or 4th guy a team really looks at guys like Shinkaruk, Pulock & Brown are looked at before Chandler, also the teams looking to improve there 20yr old situation will look at guys like Burns, Valcourt, Forsberg & Fioretti before Leier & Stevenson as those other guys will come at a much cheaper price.

Its to easy to say move players for picks & prospects but remember the prospects being offered have to be what our team needs are as well if there not our team needs with prospects its not worth moving just for the sake of moving. Example would be getting another center '98 when we already have Steel & Smith who are being looked upon as #1 & #2 centers in the future. If there are no wingers being offered or top Dmen (which rarely get offered up) there isn't a whole need to pull the trigger.

All in all there has only been 1 trade I have questioned Lang over since being here & that was the Rodewald/Hansen trade. Lang has done a fantastic job at turning this franchise around & things are finally looking like we are going in the right path. Trading some key guys this year can also piss off the current group who want to win now & in the future with this franchise, its a thin line that you don't want to cross.

One last thing, the Findlay comment I think that ship has sailed. He is only still on the PL as they are waiting for him to offically attend US college so they can move him onto there college list incase when he is 19 he realises college isn't his route.

[chopper]

In 09-10 Eberle/Tuebert situation was quite different than this year. In 09-10 the Pats were 4 games under .500 at the trade deadline. The team was playing like crap, they were not a deep team and were going nowhere. Not even in the same stratosphere as League or Memorial Cup champions. They finished 5 games under .500 and out of the playoffs. Net result; we got nothing for our assets, missed the playoffs that season and well as the following one.

In the first half we have a 4-14 record against teams we are competing with for a playoff spot. We have been outscored in those games 77-46. The WHL website says we have the highest goals against of any eastern conference team in the playoff picture. A playoff spot is not a guarantee. I think we have to at least entertain offers from teams who may want our assets. You can never have too many high end 97,98 and 99 prospects. We have Colton Kroeker is lighting it up in the CSSHL with 44 points in 22 games. Finlay is going NCAA but I've seen many of them come back after a year. Smith is a big boy who needs to work on his skating to get to WHL level. He's a work in progress.

I've been a fan for 25+ years and have endured a lot of set backs. A lot of one round exits and missed playoffs are a norm. If we're just a one round team as many have suggested I don't get too excited. I've seen that movie before. I've seen teams come out of the ashes and how they do it. It's all about coming together at the same time with loads of talent. Having only one or two at the same time doesn't do much. Hopefully we find a way to build a team that can win 4 rounds!

HOPE SANTA WAS GOOD TO EVERYONE

I asked Santa to bring me the thin curvy girl I married. I told him I think the one I'm with now ate her!

[patsdude114]

I still think Kroekar should of been on this team this season, but having him dominate within his peers is great for development. Who know's maybe if Lang does some selling he could find his way on the team for the remainder of the season as well. As for Smith I'm not sure if you took in the summer camp at all but he made huge strides in his skating in just a few months til rookie camp came around. He's a better skater then what McCoy is so that is at least promising.

We all know Parker couldn't swallow his ego & trade the assests we did have that year which is the reason we have been the laughing stock of the league for so long. Like I said in my last post I do think there are players ahead of Stephenson before they knock on our door, he will be a cheaper player then the others but how cheap is yet to be known. Same goes for Leier & Stevenson, being in a playoff spot & what they have done to help our younger players see what it takes to play in this league that the trade would have to be even more perfect then a Stephenson traade plus the whole 20yr old problem as they are very tough to move at this point of the year. Bringing in another team's 20yr old off say a so called better team is very risky for us as the player could come here with a lot of attitude & not caring anymore for this season.

The thing that bother's me the most about the whole 'just trade assests no matter what' is there is a lot more that goes into it then just the fact of trading these players for the sake of trading them. I'm all for strenghtening certain age groups but it also has to be the right fit for the player(s) coming in. How's their attitude, do they actually want to be in Regina compared to the franchise they were with, so many questions come into it

[chopper]

I too would like to see Kroeker here this season. I have a feeling that he could provide as much or more than the two 97 forwards we currently use. This kid scores! Another 98 kid that may be a mega surprise is Jacob Elmer. He is in the top 10 of League scoring, and 4th on his team. People I know from Calgary say the kid loves to score. I guess we will see next camp here.

Trades are always tricky coming in or going out. Some GM's like McCrimmon seem to have the ability to pull rabbits out his hat. Very astute fellow. Because of the acquisitions some teams have made i.e. Kootenay (Bozon) and Brandon (Pilon) may not have whole lot to trade with. It's been reported that one WHL GM really covets Dyson Stevenson. I have source that told me there are more than one team that covet him. He is the guy I would least want to see go. Of the the three: Stephenson, Stevenson, and Leier I wonder if the Pats will keep them all. If they do I wonder what the Pats would have to offer to get something they need. They need to get their goals against down. Conundrum for sure.

I guess starting the 27th teams can resume business as usual. It is interesting to see which teams pull the trigger first. I'm pretty sure that there have already been some done deals.

[RWAH]

PD114 no one said just trade assets for the sake of trading them. Everyone wants to see the team get better in the future. Your right Chad L has improved the team and I agree the Rodewald/Hanson trade is suspect, but IMO the Marinchin/1st and 2nd draft pick cost us future talent for 5 playoff games. And as it turned out we ended the season 9 points ahead on the 9th place team, and may have made the playoffs without Marinchin. And those two picks are the 17s we lack now. I will trust Chad L to consider ""attitude'"talent" desire to play here" and all the numerous things that go into a trade.

[chopper]

You can't read in too much from an effort like tonight, or should I say lack of effort. Lang did say he might wait for a bit to see how the team responds after the break. If it continues they way it did tonight then they have a big problem. There weren't any areas of the team that met minimum standards. They will have to correct lots by tomorrow.

[chopper]

You can't read in too much from an effort like tonight, or should I say lack of effort. Lang did say he might wait for a bit to see how the team responds after the break. If it continues they way it did tonight then they have a big problem. There weren't any areas of the team that met minimum standards. They will have to correct lots by tomorrow.

Was just checking the P.A site and it appears they have made deals with Saskatoon and Calgary. P.A getting Valcourt and Calder Brooks. Saskatoon getting Busenius and Calgary getting Winther.

I felt P.A. were going to be players considering they had dropped like stones and still sit in 9th.