2014-2015 roster

[Red celtic]

The July attempt at Red Deer Rebs 2014-2015 roster will try to keep it to 24 players.

Forwards
1. Kopeck (19) Bleackley (18) Sterzer (20)
2. Feser (19) Maxwell (20) Johnson (19)
3. Polie (18) Musil (17) Pawlenchuk (17)
4. Nell (17) de Witt (16) McCarty (17)
5. Burke (17)

Defence
1. Fluery (18) Cote (20)
2. Doetzel (19) Charif (19)
3. Jansens (17) Dixon (19)
4. Grman (17) Mahura (16)

Goalies
1. Burman (17) Toth (18)

[SectionNDeserter]

Interesting picks, but I certainly hope that Sutter can find a spot for Musil and Pawlenchuk on at least the second line.

I honestly don't see Charif on the roster next season. I think they will have Schmoorkoff on the roster as well, which would put them at 9 defensemen. Mahura can replace Charif, and I don't see them keeping Charif as an overage player in 2015.

[Red celtic]

Interesting picks, but I certainly hope that Sutter can find a spot for Musil and Pawlenchuk on at least the second line.

I honestly don't see Charif on the roster next season. I think they will have Schmoorkoff on the roster as well, which would put them at 9 defensemen. Mahura can replace Charif, and I don't see them keeping Charif as an overage player in 2015.

I agree that both Musil and Pawlenchuk will become second line players I think that Sutter will ease them into that role give them some softer minutes to gain confidence. Not sure about Charif myself and he may become trade bait sooner rather than later but based on his minutes from last year I have him on the team. I also believe that Maxwell doesn't make it to November and will be traded.

[Moonergroupie]

No Mpofu or Chorney is a bit of a surprise seeing they were both a bit higher than Nell on the depth chart last year (Nell a year younger though I guess). Not real familiar with Laderoute. Was he a draft pick?

Other thing that you need to bank on is some invite walking into camp and making the team as that always seems to happen with this team. Mind you that could just be an indication of the lack of depth this team has had in the past and hopefully that is not the case with the team this year.

Not sure I see Dixon on this team as a 19 year old either. Pretty sure we don't see him next year as a 20 year old and could probably get just as good a minutes out of a 16 or 17 year old this year. Only reason I see him being around is if the team lacks toughness and with the direction being the last couple years to draft bigger stronger players, I don't see this team getting pushed around by anyone this year. Plus with Polie being in the line-up a year older and stronger, we should have one of the best fighters in the league.

At least with Charif you can see there is some offensive upside which is something the Rebels lacked from the blue line last year.

Always a good sign when you can have these discussions about which 18 or 19 year old is not making the team this year. Has to mean depth and core group is getting better, at least I hope that is what it means.

[SectionNDeserter]

No Mpofu or Chorney is a bit of a surprise seeing they were both a bit higher than Nell on the depth chart last yearMpofu would have struggled to crack the top three lines this season, and I think as an 18 year old second year player pegged as a scorer, he needed to be in the top three lines. I think he had the same feeling, which is why he left the team to go to law school. I was a bit surprised at Chorney being signed last season, as he wasn't among the most impressive forwards in his age group at training camp. He is another 18 year old sophomore that needs to be at least pushing the third liners, and I don't think he is doing that.


Other thing that you need to bank on is some invite walking into camp and making the team as that always seems to happen with this team.Always see this as a failure of sorts, when they bring in an 18 or especially a 19 year old out of the AJHL or SJHL over some of their prospects that they have had for years. I can only ever remember one occasion that this has ever really paid off at all, and that was with Rhyse Dieno. There is about twenty Riley Boomgaarten's for every Dieno that they have signed over the years.


Not sure I see Dixon on this team as a 19 year old either.He had a really rough start with the team. Their penalty kill wasn't anywhere near good enough to be able to deal with all of his "toughness". That being said, I though that in the last dozen or so games he did a pretty good job of keeping his emotions and temper under control, and he didn't look totally awful. Seems hard to imagine him here as an overage player too.


Plus with Polie being in the line-up a year older and stronger, we should have one of the best fighters in the league.Not sure how important that is in today's game, but it is always entertaining to watch for sure. I really don't understand what Saskatoon saw in Milette that they were willing to give up Polei for him, but way to turn a problem into a solution!


At least with Charif you can see there is some offensive upside which is something the Rebels lacked from the blue line last year.I am of the opinion that if you want more offense from the blueline, sticking a forward back there isn't really any worse than the offensive "defensemen" that the Rebels have had over the years (Charif, Gaudet, Morin, Kvisto, Chapman etc). Then you also have the option of dressing another young forward. Of course the ideal situation would be for them to add defensemen that actually become competent at the defensive part of their position before moving on to the offensive side. Charif may surprise me this year, but it is nerve-wracking to watch him in his own zone.

[calcheyup]

Always a good sign when you can have these discussions about which 18 or 19 year old is not making the team this year. Has to mean depth and core group is getting better, at least I hope that is what it means.
That's a pretty... optimistic way to view that. I would rather have a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds that were good enough that you didn't need to worry about them not making the club, personally. To me what you described speaks for that group being very weak as opposed to very strong.

[SectionNDeserter]

That's a pretty... optimistic way to view that. I would rather have a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds that were good enough that you didn't need to worry about them not making the club, personally.It is more realistic than optimistic, in a developmental league like the WHL, especially when you are talking about kids this young. Certainly everything lines up just right every so often and you get a well-balanced team of veterans and hungry young top prospects, but this would be the exception rather than the rule. Players aren't always going to become what the team had hoped that they would, and there should always be a prospect pool in place that is legitimately pushing these players. I am with Moonergroupie, if you have a number of players that have been with the team for a year or two, and they are really just 'warm bodies' on the roster filling up roster spots, it is a great sign to see a younger player come in, take their place in the roster and do an equal or better job. This is clearly a sign of a team that is improving.

[Red celtic]

No Mpofu or Chorney is a bit of a surprise seeing they were both a bit higher than Nell on the depth chart last year (Nell a year younger though I guess). Not real familiar with Laderoute. Was he a draft pick?
Got this information from Small Thoughts At Large prospect section great blog by the way. These stats are a year old the Alberta Midget AAA is not forth coming with there stats.

Tanner Laderoute Center 6'0", 160 lb
2013-14 age: 16 Acquired: listed player
GP G A PTS PIM
Edmonton K of C Centennials (AMMHL minor midget AAA) 27 21 22 43 8
Knights of Columbus Pats (AMHL AAA midget) 4 2 0 2 0

Saw him last year at prospect and main camp looked good at both camps I think he has a chance to play in the league. Chorney could make the team I am not a fan of a 18 year old on the forth line. In my opinion that's where he would be playing this year.

[Red celtic]

According to Alan Caldwells blog Tanner Laderoute is no longer listed by the Rebs so I took him off my roster.

[tiny]

We seem to have a number of D (12) from last year and new to the team this year. With Cote (20y), Fafard (20y), Doetzel (19y), Chariff (19y), Dixon (19y), Bear (19), Fleury (18y), Grman (17y), Jansons (17y), Schmoorkoff (17y), Strand (17y), Mahura (16y).
That is assuming MacLachlan is gone because I can't find him on the prospects list.
I also read that Mahura, Schmoorkoff, and Strand have signed WHL Ed. contracts.
I would love to hear from Red Celtic, Section N, and others what they EXPECT to happen with these D-men AND what THEY would do with them. LOL Have fun.

[SectionNDeserter]

I would love to hear from Red Celtic, Section N, and others what they EXPECT to happen with these D-men AND what THEY would do with them. LOL Have fun.
Ok!


Fafard (20y)
Bear (19)Let me just get that list down to 10 for you! Not much demand for an overage minus-16 stay at home defenseman and a 19 year old that played 4 or 5 minutes a game for 30 games, registering zero points. Also saw something that lead me to believe that Bear wasn't really happy with his situation here. If either of these guys haven't been released already, I would be surprised.


Fleury (18y)
Cote (20y)Don't know a great deal about Cote, but as an overage defenseman that they gave up a 2nd round pick for, I can only imagine that the plan is for him to play a LOT of minutes, probably on the first pairing.


Doetzel (19y)
Jansons (17y)If Jansons has the skill level that I have heard he has, he should be on the second pairing, at the very least.


Chariff (19y)
Dixon (19y)
Grman (17y)
Schmoorkoff (17y)
Strand (17y)
Mahura (16y)
I believe that one of the 19 year olds in this group will be moved to forward, or traded before training camp. The other will form the third pairing with Grman. Sutter likes to carry 8 defensemen, so I suspect that Mahura and Schmoorkoff will make the grade. Not really sure where that leaves Strand, but he wasn't anywhere near as WHL ready as Schmoorkoff at camp last year.

[Moonergroupie]

Agree with Section N's analysis.

I think we have enough talented young forwards coming up through the ranks though, that I hope we do not see Dixon or Chariff start their careers as a fourth line forward. Let some of the 16 and 17 year old guys that have some potential to become a top 6 guy in the league make use of those minutes to gain some experience.

We have had the discussion already about how we believe neither 19 year old will be here next season so I see no reason in keeping them around this year at the expense of minutes to a younger guy.

[Red celtic]

We seem to have a number of D (12) from last year and new to the team this year. With Cote (20y), Fafard (20y), Doetzel (19y), Chariff (19y), Dixon (19y), Bear (19), Fleury (18y), Grman (17y), Jansons (17y), Schmoorkoff (17y), Strand (17y), Mahura (16y).
That is assuming MacLachlan is gone because I can't find him on the prospects list.
I also read that Mahura, Schmoorkoff, and Strand have signed WHL Ed. contracts.
I would love to hear from Red Celtic, Section N, and others what they EXPECT to happen with these D-men AND what THEY would do with
them. LOL Have fun.

Our backend is a work in progress dependant on how Fluery, Doetzel and Cote step up. As I have explained to our good (0r some may say goofy) friend SectionN that our backend is a work in progress Mr. Fafard and Mr. Bear have reached their expiry date due to age and skill. There will be a battle for the 6th, 7th and 8th spots and it will be interesting how Strand, Smoorkoff and Grman do. Also is it in the teams best interest to keep Mahura on the team as a 16 year old even though I picked him to make the team and I did assume that MacLachlan was gone.

As to what they do with Fafard, Bear and MacLachlan they trade Fafard and release the other two. Tiny or anyone else it would be good to see your projected late July roster it is always good for a discussion SectionN try to keep it under the 50 man limit :-)

[tiny]

Forwards
1. Kopeck (19) Bleackley (18) Sterzer (20)
2. Feser (19) Maxwell (20) Johnson (19)
3. Polei (18) Musil (17) Pawlenchuk (17)
4. Nell (17) de Witt (16) McCarty (17)
5. Burke (17)
(Others in the hunt that I haven't placed: Chorney, Lapointe, Logel)

Defence
1. Fluery (18) Cote (20)
2. Doetzel (19) Schmoorkoff(17)
3. Jansens (17) Strand (17)
4. Grman (17) Mahura (16)
(Others in the hunt that I haven't placed: Dixon, Chariff, Chalifoux, MacLachlan??) I like CFhalifoux.

Goalies
1. Burman (17) Toth (18)
(Another in the hunt that I haven't placed: Neherniak)
I too expect a trade early for an 18y old forward or tender.)

[Red celtic]

Defence
1. Fluery (18) Cote (20)
2. Doetzel (19) Schmoorkoff(17)
3. Jansens (17) Strand (17)
4. Grman (17) Mahura (16)
(Others in the hunt that I haven't placed: Dixon, Chariff, Chalifoux, MacLachlan??) I like CFhalifoux.

Goalies
1. Burman (17) Toth (18)
(Another in the hunt that I haven't placed: Neherniak)
I too expect a trade early for an 18y old forward or tender.)

Your defence looks a little young 6 players 18 years old or younger hope they will be able to stand up to the bigger teams :-)

[SectionNDeserter]

Something else to think about, is that looking to the future, the team is a little light on '96 born players. Fleury and Bleackley won't play here as overage players, and possibly not as 19 year olds. That leaves just Polei and maybe Chorney as potential overage players in that group. I suspect that we will see some moves to get a bit stronger in that age group. They also have seven 19 year olds, and there isn't really any sign that any of them won't be available here as overage players.

[tiny]

I realize that the team is not the one we will remain with for the season. I am expecting at least two trades likely involving 19Y olds, prospects and maybe a 20Y old leaving. I wouldn't be surprised to see 18Y olds in return. Young ... yes. Only four 19Y olds in my line-up.

[RDRebelsfan]

Been a while since I posted here.

Not going to do a whole team lineup projection as that can easily change. I'll play it safe and simple, Bleackley, Kopeck, Sterzer will obviously make up the top line. At least to start. Guys like Musil and Pawlenchuk, I don't see how they'll be stuck in 3rd line roles too long and will be battling with Maxwell and Johnson with those spots.

The top 4 of the defense will be made up of Cote, Fleury, Doetzel and Jansens. The rest are up for a battle between Chariff, Schmoorkoff, Grman, Mahura, Dixon.

Fafard will be 20 and he won't be taking a spot over Cote (who we dealt a 2nd rounder for), Maxwell or Sterzer. And I wasn't too impressed with Bear last year.

In goal, they'll begin with Burman with Toth and Naherniak and whomever battling for backup. If they feel confident and safe with Burman they'll ride him the rest of the year. The kid is a 2nd rounder so why not let him have a chance as a starter I say. In all likely cases he won't see the amount of rubber Bartosak saw.

I'm certain we will see a few trades to tinker the team a bit. So that's my 2 cents. Can't wait for the season to begin.

[calcheyup]

I am with Moonergroupie, if you have a number of players that have been with the team for a year or two, and they are really just 'warm bodies' on the roster filling up roster spots, it is a great sign to see a younger player come in, take their place in the roster and do an equal or better job. This is clearly a sign of a team that is improving.
You just qualified that with an "if" to change my point entirely. Uh, yeah, "if" your 18-19 year olds suck, then yes it's lovely to see younger guys come in and challenge them. That's not what I said though. I said it's not "always a good sign" that your team has a bunch 18-19 year olds getting pushed for a roster spot. That's a sign that your team probably isn't going to be very good.

[SectionNDeserter]

I said it's not "always a good sign" that your team has a bunch 18-19 year olds getting pushed for a roster spot. That's a sign that your team probably isn't going to be very good.I am not really too clear about what you mean. Are you saying that if 18-19 year olds are getting pushed off the team by players that are younger and have a higher level of skill and compete level (obviously this would be a requirement for them to bump an older player off the roster), that the team is probably not going to be as good, as compared to the team with the older, less skilled and less competitive players? I think we might be talking about two entirely different things...

The last few seasons, the prospects came to camp, and for the most part, the ones that should have been ready, weren't quite ready to step in and fill a roster spot. This led to them attempting to round out the roster with Jr. A/B players like Muller, MacKenzie, Hak, Thiel, Giebel, Miller, Smith, Boomgaarden, Bear, etc. It is always a good sign when it looks like some of the young prospects that have been to a camp or two are looking like they are ready to step in, rather than just falling back to adding another 18 or 19 year old from the AJHL or SJHL.

[calcheyup]

I am not really too clear about what you mean. Are you saying that if 18-19 year olds are getting pushed off the team by players that are younger and have a higher level of skill and compete level (obviously this would be a requirement for them to bump an older player off the roster), that the team is probably not going to be as good, as compared to the team with the older, less skilled and less competitive players? I think we might be talking about two entirely different things...
No, that's not what I'm saying, and yes we are talking about two entirely different things. What you're saying is that it's a good sign that these younger guys are outperforming and pushing the older guys for their jobs. Which, on this current team we have here, sure, it's good news, because we don't really have much to write home about in that 18-19 y/o age group on this club; we're coming off a pretty uninspiring season and the prognosis for this year isn't a whole lot better, so the young guys might as well step up and get their PT in because why not?

What I'm saying is, your club probably isn't going to be very good if the quality of your 18-19 year olds is so poor that their spots on the club are in jeopardy to 16-17 year olds. Kind of like this team. Hence why I don't feel it's "always a good thing" to see your older guys in danger of losing roster spots. That's a reflection on the fact that your team, in all likelihood, isn't going to do anything noteworthy that season. You're not winning anything in this league without a good, established group of 18-19 year olds.

[SectionNDeserter]

What I'm saying is, your club probably isn't going to be very good if the quality of your 18-19 year olds is so poor that their spots on the club are in jeopardy to 16-17 year olds.Ok, I get what you are saying now. When you said 'isn't going to be', I thought you were talking about the future team getting worse, rather than the past/current team not being very competitive.


Which, on this current team we have here, sure, it's good news, because we don't really have much to write home about in that 18-19 y/o age group on this clubThey have some fantastic 18 year olds (Bleackley, Fleury) and some 18/19 year olds that showed improvement last season (Feser, Johnson, Kopeck, Polei). I think that unfortunately, all of the 18/19 year olds that are question marks, are primarily on the blueline (Charif, Bear, Dixon).


we're coming off a pretty uninspiring season and the prognosis for this year isn't a whole lot better, so the young guys might as well step up and get their PT in because why not?That was last season where they had as many as a dozen rookies in the lineup for stretches of the season. I would like to think that most of those guys benefited from the experience, however now they have no starting goaltender, and are potentially facing turnover of all but two defensemen from last season.

Obviously the biggest question is, who is going to step in and try to fill Bartosak's shoes, but beyond that, I believe there are a few other key question marks.

Is Cote going to be an upgrade on Gaudet? It is really hard to imagine a defenseman that could play worse than Gaudet last season... He brings 209 games of regular season experience, and 19 games of playoff experience, though his point totals dipped a bit last season, and he is a career minus player. If he starts taking himself out of position to generate offense, taking two or three stupid penalties every game, and having guys blow by him like he isn't there, it is going to be another looooooong season.

Will Jansens and/or Grman make the blueline better? You have to go all the way back to Mikko Kuukka to find an import defenseman that enjoyed any sort of success with the Rebels. With them potentially adding two import blueliners, is this the season that they get that impact import defenseman?

[calcheyup]

Is Cote going to be an upgrade on Gaudet? It is really hard to imagine a defenseman that could play worse than Gaudet last season...
You just answered your own question.:)


Will Jansens and/or Grman make the blueline better?
Is it even guaranteed they will be here this year? I haven't heard anything about that aspect of it yet.


With them potentially adding two import blueliners, is this the season that they get that impact import defenseman?
I sure hope so, but I'd be lying if I said I knew anything about what to expect from these guys. But both of those guys would need to be legit top 4 WHL d-men in addition to Burman surprising everyone for this year's Rebels team to be competitive. I hope it happens, but I'm also not going to hold my breath on it either. It would be great if Sutter could add a stay-at-home type before this season, but easier said than done.

[Moonergroupie]

[QUOTE]we're coming off a pretty uninspiring season and the prognosis for this year isn't a whole lot better.

Funny to see these comments coming from calcheyup in the same week that Brent Sutter confirms that Red Deer will be bidding on the 2016 Memorial Cup and one of the main criteria he is using in his bid is quality of team. Last year's team missed the playoffs and you like to think that it is a building process to get to be a memorial cup contender which would mean that this team is going to make some strides this year to be a contender in 2016.

There is a pile of work that goes into a Memorial cup bid and with Brent making comments about how things went in Saskatoon for the Blades, he will not set himself up for the same embarassment. So obviously he must feel that he has the personal in place to be better this year and a contender the following year.

I mentioned it last year as well that there isn't that big of differences in these junior hockey teams and that 1 or 2 players stepping up or joining the team can make a huge difference in how the season goes. I would like to think that Bleaks and Fluery are going to continue their progression and be top players in this league. When you look at the success that Kootney and Medicine Hat have had over the last few years, they were doing it on the strength of one line and a couple of top players.

I agree that there are some question marks on our goaltending going in, but we have the prospects and draft picks available to make a trade if we need to solidify that position.

Although Brent has made some questionable moves and has some coaching techniques that I haven't agreed with at times, I still believe he is a great hockey mind and the team that he has put together had the work ethic installed in them last year and from what I can tell is gaining skill this year. Looking at how the roster is shaping up, I can't see how we won't have a better team than last year. I guess I agree with Brent's assessment of the team more than calcheyup's. Right now at least.

[SectionNDeserter]

Is it even guaranteed they will be here this year? I haven't heard anything about that aspect of it yet.Like a lot of CHL import picks, they were selected based upon the player's agent proactively approaching the team. It seems really unlikely that they wouldn't show up for training camp, when the whole thing was basically arranged by their agents.


But both of those guys would need to be legit top 4 WHL d-men in addition to Burman surprising everyone for this year's Rebels team to be competitive.I would be extremely surprised if Burman went from being not even WHL backup caliber last season, to a starter this year. I am personally not at all impressed with his development last season, or lack thereof.


It would be great if Sutter could add a stay-at-home type before this season, but easier said than done.I can't imagine that he he is going to make any big moves prior to the decision being made on the Memorial cup host. It seems unlikely that they will be awarded the bid, but if they do pull it off somehow, Sutter has a lot of work to do in the next offseason.

[calcheyup]

Funny to see these comments coming from calcheyup in the same week that Brent Sutter confirms that Red Deer will be bidding on the 2016 Memorial Cup and one of the main criteria he is using in his bid is quality of team. Last year's team missed the playoffs and you like to think that it is a building process to get to be a memorial cup contender which would mean that this team is going to make some strides this year to be a contender in 2016.
Sorry to say, but no matter how much you may want it to be so, putting a Memorial Cup bid in doesn't make the team any better.

[SectionNDeserter]

Sorry to say, but no matter how much you may want it to be so, putting a Memorial Cup bid in doesn't make the team any better.It is really tough to compete with the OHL. Their restriction on trading first round picks one of the greatest things ever introduced to junior hockey. In the OHL, contending teams/bidding teams acquire impact rental players for 2nd round picks and/or a roster player/prospect. In the WHL, the price tag for the same player is usually 2 or 3 first round picks, and a pile of prospects. The OHL teams load up on three or four NHL-drafted players at the deadline, and they are ready to go.

In the QMJHL, despite having no restriction in place on 1st round picks, being awarded the hosting rights to the Memorial Cup tournament doesn't seem to create the same "Lets drag them over the coals on all their trades!" mentality that exists in the WHL. Whatever WHL team is awarded the Memorial Cup hosting rights, is going to overpay for mediocre talent, and grossly overpay for fantastic talent.

[Red celtic]

Sorry to say, but no matter how much you may want it to be so, putting a Memorial Cup bid in doesn't make the team any better.

Calcheup here is a interview that Brent did for the Pipeline show in Edmonton in he talks about the process the team did to prepare for the Mem cup bid. Many people around the league feel the Rebs are on a upswing and that the team will be competitive going forward do they have some question marks yes but the core group is there. Have a listen and yes for a team to make a memorial cup bid they need to be better :-) Here is Red Deers draft order for 2015 and 2016 taken from the Small Thoughts at Large Blog. Red Deer will need these assets to insure they put forward a good team if trade bait is required.

2015 draft order
Red Deer: (1 first, 2 seconds, 1 third, 2 fourths, 1 fifth, 2 sixths, 1 seventh, 1 eighth, 1 ninth, 1 tenth)
- acquired a 2nd round pick from Portland in the Mat Dumba trade (December 10, 2013)
- traded a 4th round pick to Tri-City for Kaleb Denham (October 1, 2012)
- acquired a 4th round pick from Regina in the Colten Mayor / Stephen Hak deal (October 18, 2012)
- acquired a 4th round pick from Vancouver for Dominik Volek (January 9, 2014)
- acquired a 6th round pick from Regina in the Colten Mayor / Stephen Hak deal (October 18, 2012)

2016 draft order
Red Deer: (1 first, 2 seconds, 2 thirds, 1 fourth, 1 fifth, 2 sixths, 1 seventh, 1 eighth, 1 ninth, 0 tenths)
- acquired a 2nd round pick from Portland in the Mat Dumba deal (December 10, 2013)
- acquired a 3rd round pick from Vancouver for Dominik Volek (January 9, 2014)
- acquired a 6th round pick from Kamloops for Bolton Pouliot (September 9, 2013)
- traded a 10th round pick to Moose Jaw for Spencer Morse (August 20, 2013

http://www.thepipelineshow.com/clips/season_10/Brent_Sutter_Aug9.mp3

[calcheyup]

It is really tough to compete with the OHL. Their restriction on trading first round picks one of the greatest things ever introduced to junior hockey. In the OHL, contending teams/bidding teams acquire impact rental players for 2nd round picks and/or a roster player/prospect. In the WHL, the price tag for the same player is usually 2 or 3 first round picks, and a pile of prospects. The OHL teams load up on three or four NHL-drafted players at the deadline, and they are ready to go.

In the QMJHL, despite having no restriction in place on 1st round picks, being awarded the hosting rights to the Memorial Cup tournament doesn't seem to create the same "Lets drag them over the coals on all their trades!" mentality that exists in the WHL. Whatever WHL team is awarded the Memorial Cup hosting rights, is going to overpay for mediocre talent, and grossly overpay for fantastic talent.
No question. The Blades, for example, gave up 11 picks, including their '13 and '14 first rounders and 3 second rounders, to acquire Ferland, Benoit, Burns, Valcourt, McColgan, and Walker. Some of those guys played some really good hockey for the Blades, but it's still a staggering number of picks to give up to build a club for one year.

[calcheyup]

Calcheup here is a interview that Brent did for the Pipeline show in Edmonton in he talks about the process the team did to prepare for the Mem cup bid. Many people around the league feel the Rebs are on a upswing and that the team will be competitive going forward do they have some question marks yes but the core group is there.
They do have some really nice pieces, yes, but at present the question marks are massive in net and on the blueline. This team is more than 1-2 pieces away from being a force even within the division.

[Moonergroupie]

Would be interested to see some stats on how teams have performed the following year after having two players picked in the first round of the nhl draft.

Starting to wonder if calcheyup shouldn't put his Hitman jersey on and head South.

[calcheyup]

Starting to wonder if calcheyup shouldn't put his Hitman jersey on and head South.
And I'm starting to wonder if you're 10 years old. Seriously, this is how a child would respond to criticism of his favorite team.

Just waiting for you to tell me you're rubber and I'm glue at this point.

Noted for future reference that you come here to wave Pom Poms rather than engage in serious discussion about the team.

[Moonergroupie]

Just to remind you, the website is called whlfans.ca. If all you are going to do is come on here and yammer on about how brutal the rebels are going to be this year, even though they have 2 first round nhl picks leading the team, lots of young skilled guys coming up through the ranks, and a coach and GM that figures he has the core talent in place to be a memorial cup contender in 2 years then I just figured you must be a fan of another whl team. No name calling required.

[calcheyup]

Just to remind you, the website is called whlfans.ca. If all you are going to do is come on here and yammer on about how brutal the rebels are going to be this year, even though they have 2 first round nhl picks leading the team, lots of young skilled guys coming up through the ranks, and a coach and GM that figures he has the core talent in place to be a memorial cup contender in 2 years then I just figured you must be a fan of another whl team. No name calling required.
So basically, either come here and gush about how amazing the Red Deer Rebels are, or don't post at all. Got it. No serious discussion about the actual quality of the team allowed. Either get on board with your point of view or leave. Team missed the playoffs last year, have no goalie, and gaping holes defensively, but nope, don't discuss that. Energy discussing the actual state of the club could be better spent planning the 2016 Memorial Cup victory parade.

Yeah, that makes sense.:rolleyes: I'm not sure if you understand how "discussion" works.

[Moonergroupie]

I am not planning a memorial cup parade. I am simply "discussing" that I feel this team is improving. I have addressed that goaltending could be an issue but even Barto wasn't playing that good through training camp and into the start of the season last year till he got some games under his belt and got in the groove. There is a reason that Burman was a 2nd round pick. It may be that he will turn out to be a major flop, but I am not going to judge that based on him getting into every tenth game last year with lots of pressure being on the playoff bubble as a 16 year old. I am going to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and say he was successful in the past (which is why he was picked in the 2nd round) and I don't see any reason why he can't become a starting goalie in the dub. It might be a little much for this team to expect him to take over the reigns as a 17 year old but that is why Brent has the prospects and draft picks that he does so that he can address the issue if he needs to.
It has been discussed at length on this website that Sutter and Gaudet were by far the worst players on the Rebels last year. Both players are gone with hopefully an upgrade for Gaudet coming back in return. While I know there are always risks with the Import draft, I feel there is a good reason why Jansons was such a high Import pick as well. Why shouldn't we believe that this kid can come in here and play top 4 minutes for this team? If he does, I fail to see the "gaping" holes you talk about on our defence as we will have a very solid top 4 with a highly touted prospect and a guy that played regular minutes on the team last year rounding out the top 6.
The team finished 1 point out of the playoffs last year and had some major underachievers on the team. If it turns out that a few guys go backward in their development like what happened last year, then it may be a struggle to make the playoffs again, but if we don't see the regression, I can't see how it isn't going to be more fun to be at the rink this winter.
My playoff Pom poms are still in the closet yet, but I prefer to look forward to the possibilities and deal with the disappointment if they don't pan out rather than not giving them a chance before they step on the ice. I would really have to question my and all the other season ticket holders sanity if we are throwing good money down to go watch a team that we feel has no chance to make a splash.
You are looking at the what ifs negatively, I am looking at the what ifs as opportunities. Nothing against you personally.

[calcheyup]

I am not planning a memorial cup parade. I am simply "discussing" that I feel this team is improving.
Sure, and when I suggest that the team is going to have another middling season, you "simply" tell me to go cheer for another team.


I don't see any reason why he can't become a starting goalie in the dub.
Conversely, since he has proven absolutely nothing and looked absolutely sick last year, I could say that I don't see any reason why he CAN become a starting goalie. Being unproven cuts both ways. Either way it turns out, it's still a gaping hole until it's proven that it can be plugged by Burman or whoever else. As for Sutter making moves to address it, I prefer to evaluate the roster as we have right now, not a roster that might exist in four months.


Why shouldn't we believe that this kid can come in here and play top 4 minutes for this team?
Likewise, why should we? Have you seen him play? I haven't. So he's a question mark until he proves otherwise, not the other way around.

You are giving every single scenario the most positive possible benefit of the doubt, and then getting frustrated with me when I temper the expectations. I don't get it.


I would really have to question my and all the other season ticket holders sanity if we are throwing good money down to go watch a team that we feel has no chance to make a splash.
If you want to discuss this, then you're going to have to stop fabricating imaginary things that I've never said. And what do you mean by "splash"? Make the playoffs? Absolutely I think they could this year. But if you honestly, as this team stands, think they can make a "splash" as in compete for the division and/or conference against the likes of Calgary and Edmonton, then I don't know what else I can say to you. They are absolutely not at that level. That kind of "splash," barring some major transactions, exists only in your mind.

It doesn't, however, mean that we won't see some good, entertaining hockey this year, nor does it mean this couldn't be a playoff team. Even if the Rebels are awful this year, they have guys on the ice worth the price of admission on their own. That's why I have season tickets, because I love junior hockey. But if you're looking at this club and thinking anything more than "middle of the conference" as the best case scenario for this year, I think you're being foolish.

[Moonergroupie]

I have not seen Jansons play but let me show you why I am more optimistic than not that he pans out. You are Brent Sutter. You know that you are going to be putting a bid in on the 2016 memorial cup and that you are in need of an impact defensemen. You also know that you will have spots available on your roster for 2 imports and you are picking fairly high in the draft with the 27th pick. Wouldn't you think you would put some extra time and effort into making sure that the 27th pick isn't a waste? I am sure some Rebel scout or a trusted advisor of the Rebels has seen him play numerous times and thought he was worthy of the 27th pick. If the homework wasn't done on this pick, well obviously the problem lies above the personal on the ice and this team will never be competitive. The chance to put an impact player in the line-up to support the memorial cup run (should they happen to be selected) and it doesn't cost you a pick or a prospect. There is no sure thing and might be a complete flop, but that is why I consider him more than a question mark at this stage.

[calcheyup]

You also know that you will have spots available on your roster for 2 imports and you are picking fairly high in the draft with the 27th pick.
Jan Bittner was a 23rd overall pick, and SectionN has already outlined the myriad of import d-men busts in recent memory. Being drafted 27th means nothing.


Wouldn't you think you would put some extra time and effort into making sure that the 27th pick isn't a waste?
So if the Memorial Cup wasn't potentially here in 2016, the Rebels scouting staff wouldn't have tried as hard, put in that "extra time" to find a good import pick? They would've just said "good enough, let's pick this guy"? Come on. The scouting staff doesn't care more about picking good players because there is a Memorial Cup bid pending.

[Moonergroupie]

I can totally see Brent Sutter calling in the troops and telling them to put some extra focus in on making the import picks this year. Even without the memorial cup bid, the myriad of import D-men busts that you refer to should be reason enough to re-think the process they go through to make these selections. If the scouting staff doesn't care more about picking good players because of the memorial cup bid, well maybe they should care more about it because of the lack of success they have had the last few years. Like I said in prior post, if they don't then the problem with this team has nothing to do with the players on the ice.

[calcheyup]

Bottom line, the scouting staff does their best to find good players every year. They don't pick and choose some years to try extra hard.

Further to that - just because you care about picking good players doesn't mean you will. You can try as hard as you want and still be wrong. No scout has had every one of their recommendations pan out. Finding high caliber players is more than just a matter of effort.

[rdreb]

goal: Burman
Toth I see a trade coming here for a backup.

.dman: Fleury Jansons
Doetzel Mahura
Cote Grman
Shmoorkoff Strand
Charif
I can see a trade coming here also.
We are going to be young on the d this year.
We have a very good top three.

Forwards:

Bleackey Maxwell Kopeck
Pawlenchuk Musil McCarty
Johnson Feser Polei
Burke Niel Logel
Dixon he Will play both back and forwad.:bounce::bounce:

[SectionNDeserter]

I see it shaping up something like this;

Defense

Cote - Fleury
Jansons - Doetzel
Charif - Grman
Mahura - Shmoorkoff

Forwards

Kopeck - Bleackley - Polei
Pawlenchuk - Musil - Feser
Johnson - Maxwell - Burke
Dixon - Nell - Fafard
Logel - Chorney - McCarty

Goaltenders

Burman - Toth

I honestly don't see this lasting too long though. I think that around 15 games in, they will be looking for a replacement for Toth, probably an overage goaltender. Also it just felt wrong somehow to put two overage players on the bottom two lines, although I think Maxwell will get extra ice time on the penalty kill.

[calcheyup]

I see it shaping up something like this;

Defense

Cote - Fleury
Jansons - Doetzel
Charif - Grman
Mahura - Shmoorkoff

Forwards

Kopeck - Bleackley - Polei
Pawlenchuk - Musil - Feser
Johnson - Maxwell - Burke
Dixon - Nell - Fafard
Logel - Chorney - McCarty

Goaltenders

Burman - Toth

I honestly don't see this lasting too long though. I think that around 15 games in, they will be looking for a replacement for Toth, probably an overage goaltender. Also it just felt wrong somehow to put two overage players on the bottom two lines, although I think Maxwell will get extra ice time on the penalty kill.
Polei has looked that good, or has everyone else looked that mediocre?

On paper, that lineup makes me feel like we have a long seasons ahead of us. Hopefully they surprise the hell out of me.

[LongTimeFan]

Polei has looked that good, or has everyone else looked that mediocre?

On paper, that lineup makes me feel like we have a long seasons ahead of us. Hopefully they surprise the hell out of me.

Unfortunately, I can't help but agree with you, Calcheyup. I'm sure Polei has improved from last season and I actually quite like him as a player and the potential he has, but if we're counting on him playing top line minutes for us, yikes. Could be another year of limited talent and even less depth. Yes, Bleackley and Fleury are elite players, but it really drops off after those two. I too hope I am wrong, but when I look at the rosters of the Oil Kings and Hitmen, who both had more players drafted than we did this season, it makes me cringe. Couple that with the always strong Ice and Tigers and I find myself very thankful for the Lethbridge Hurricanes for making sure they're always worse than us.

On another note, is it just me or was it a little disappointing reading Sutter's comments about Sterzer today? As a fan, I too am disappointed that he won't be back and would go as far as to say that on the surface it appears he probably hasn't handled it the right way. However, I don't see or appreciate the value in the face of the franchise calling the kid out publicly and questioning his commitment for wanting to move on with his life. Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I was really disappointed in that. The kid's heart isn't in it and he's been through some life changing events - sad to see him go, but this fan wishes him all the best. :)

[calcheyup]

Judging by the articles in the Advocate, he sprung this on Sutter without any warning. If that's true, then Brent has every right to be upset. Not only did he give up a decent WHL forward and a pick to get him, but he lost the opportunity to try to fill the void he is leaving this offseason by not knowing he was gonna pull the plug. Whatever his reasons are, it certainly doesn't sound like the young man went about this the right way, and left his team and teammates high and dry.

[SectionNDeserter]

Polei has looked that good, or has everyone else looked that mediocre?Polei is 10lbs lighter than he was playing at last season, and looks like he really took his conditioning seriously in the offseason. He played every training camp scrimmage on a line with Bleackley and Pratt. Have heard some 'rink talk', that opposition teams were really taking runs at Bleackley last season, which lead to him being injured/worn down in the second half, and that they want to add a 'deterrent' to his line. I think that Polei could end up being the most surprising player this season.


On paper, that lineup makes me feel like we have a long seasons ahead of us. Hopefully they surprise the hell out of me.I suspect that they aren't going to have a fantastic record in at least the first 20 games or so... I give it 15 games before they acquire an experienced goaltender to replace Toth. I think that my fourth line would be as entertaining as hell to watch. ;)

[SectionNDeserter]

On another note, is it just me or was it a little disappointing reading Sutter's comments about Sterzer today?I assume you mean:

"It's disappointing because we gave up assets to acquire him. He's quitting on us, and it's a knock to his teammates. It's tough, but that's his decision, his choice to play CIS hockey."

Sutter has to be accountable to the fans, for why a potential 50-60 point forward isn't returning this season. All he did was make it very clear that the decision was all Sterzer's, and he didn't really say anything that wasn't true. It is disappointing because they gave up assets to acquire him, he did quit on them, it is a knock to his teammates (as I am sure they were expecting him to be there as well), and it is his decision to play CIS hockey this year.


Not only did he give up a decent WHL forward and a pick to get himBellerieve was an addition through subtraction deal, sort of like Gaudet. Does hurt to give up that third rounder though, for a player that only played 30 games here.

[calcheyup]

I see it shaping up something like this;

Defense

Cote - Fleury
Jansons - Doetzel
Charif - Grman
Mahura - Shmoorkoff

Do you think that Sutter puts all his eggs in one basket and pairs his best puck moving defensemen? I haven't seen anything from the import guys, but pairing Doetzel with one of those guys would make more sense IMO, and then play Cote and Fleury together on the powerplay. Your thoughts?

[LongTimeFan]

[QUOTE=SectionNDeserter;197103]I assume you mean:

"It's disappointing because we gave up assets to acquire him. He's quitting on us, and it's a knock to his teammates. It's tough, but that's his decision, his choice to play CIS hockey."

That's part of it. The two lines that stuck out for me were "To play at this level takes a major commitment and he’s not a committed player,” said the Rebels boss, and "He's quitting on us, and it's a knock to his teammates."

It wasn't too many years ago that Sutter himself walked away from the New Jersey Devils. Out of interest after reading your response, I googled that and came across an old article.

Sutter's quote:"It might not be the right decision for some people and that's fine," Sutter said in a conference call from his home in Red Deer, Alberta. "I don't look at it like I am quitting on anything.

"I threw two years of my life and made a big commitment 3,000 miles away from where my life was and tried to do everything I possibly could to accomplish a goal. So by me doing that my life has suffered in other areas, and those areas to me are bigger than the game."

GM Lamoriello's response: While disappointed, Lamoriello said he understood it.

"He had to come to grips on what was best for himself, his family and his Red Deer team," Lamoriello said in a telephone interview. "He was the only person who could make that decision and I respect that."

Lamoriello didn't call him out for quitting or a lack of commitment, he just respected the decision. Reading that just confirmed what I was already feeling, and it would've been classy for Sutter to pay that forward to a young guy trying to make a responsible life decision that I'm sure was very tough for him. Who knows, maybe that attitude on the coach's part is part of the reason why the kid isn't coming back in the first place.

In any event, I hope the exodus is over and everyone here will stay. Looking forward to opening night!

[SectionNDeserter]

Do you think that Sutter puts all his eggs in one basket and pairs his best puck moving defensemen?After Fleury, I am not sure if most of them are significantly better than one another at moving the puck.


I haven't seen anything from the import guys, but pairing Doetzel with one of those guys would make more senseThat is exactly why I paired Doetzel with Jansons. ;)


Sutter's quote:"It might not be the right decision for some people and that's fine," Sutter said in a conference call from his home in Red Deer, Alberta. "I don't look at it like I am quitting on anything.Sutter left the Devils in June, at the completion of the regular season. Sterzer just didn't show up to camp the next season. I see what you are saying, but it would be a lot less of a knock to his teammates, had he said goodbye to them at the end of the regular season, and told them and the team that he wasn't returning.

[SectionNDeserter]

[QUOTE=SectionNDeserter;197103]Lamoriello didn't call him out for quitting or a lack of commitment, he just respected the decision.Also, I don't think there is any GM in the league that has fired more coaches than Lamoriello, he was probably just ecstatic that he wasn't going to have to pay him after he fired him in three or four months. ;)

[calcheyup]

After Fleury, I am not sure if most of them are significantly better than one another at moving the puck.
I guess I have to take your word for it now, but what I'm hearing and reading is that Cote is head and shoulders above everyone not named Fleury when it comes to moving the puck out of his own zone.


That is exactly why I paired Doetzel with Jansons. ;)
[/QUOTE]
No, I meant pairing Doetzel with Cote or Fleury.

[Moonergroupie]

I think I am most surprised to see Fafard show up on anyone's picks for the team this year. I see no value in keeping a 20 year old defensmen to play a fourth line forward roll that will probably score 2 goals this season in his 5 minutes/game of ice time. There has to be enough depth in 20 year olds out there to upgrade this spot. A guy like Boston Leier that Regina added last year from MH. If there isn't, give the spot to a young guy to help his development.

[SectionNDeserter]

but what I'm hearing and reading is that Cote is head and shoulders above everyone not named Fleury when it comes to moving the puck out of his own zone.I would actually put Mahura much higher in that category alone than Cote, just due to the fact that he skates so well with the puck, giving him more options. Just based on his experience, and the price they paid to acquire him, I have a hard time seeing Cote anywhere but on the top pairing. I think that Jansons is going to need some help defensively this season, and that is where a solid, stay-at-home guy like Doetzel will help a lot.


think I am most surprised to see Fafard show up on anyone's picks for the team this year. I see no value in keeping a 20 year old defensmen to play a fourth line forward roll that will probably score 2 goals this season in his 5 minutes/game of ice time.He will start the season on the roster, but I think that if they do end up having to replace Toth, it will be with an overage goaltender, and it will make Fafard the odd man out. With Sutter still in the running for the Memorial cup, I don't see him burning picks to acquire a top six scoring overage player that will be gone next season, so the decision there could change a lot of things as well.

[calcheyup]

I would actually put Mahura much higher in that category alone than Cote, just due to the fact that he skates so well with the puck, giving him more options.
I understand your point, but I'm more comparing Cote to guys who are in the running to play 20+ minutes a night this year, not a 16-year-old rookie. Mahura could move the puck like Paul Coffey, it doesn't really matter to the point I'm trying to make, because I can't imagine the rest of his game is at a place where he is going to be playing top 4 minutes this year. Hence my rationale for splitting up Fleury and Cote - might as well have your two best puck movers (capable of playing those minutes) on separate pairings. Doetzel would make a very nice complement to either one.

Regardless, you're the one who has seen these guys so far this year, so like I said, I'll take your word for it, and we'll see what this season brings.:bevvy:

[SectionNDeserter]

Also, Both Fleury and Doetzel have played their entire WHL careers on Right defense, so it seems strange to change that up for what could be both of their final WHL seasons.

[calcheyup]

Also, Both Fleury and Doetzel have played their entire WHL careers on Right defense, so it seems strange to change that up for what could be both of their final WHL seasons.
They would be fine on either side. It's not an earth-shattering transition.

[LongTimeFan]

Also, Both Fleury and Doetzel have played their entire WHL careers on Right defense, so it seems strange to change that up for what could be both of their final WHL seasons.

Fleury has played the majority of his career on the left side (he is also a left shot), although he is capable of playing the right side if need be. On the contrary, Doetzel has played the right side, but I think it would be worth the price of admission to see him play left!

[SectionNDeserter]

Still a needless transition nonetheless. Fleury can play well in both ends of the ice, and Doetzel is very good in his own end. If you put both defensemen that can take care of things in their own end of the ice on the same pairing, I would argue that that is also "putting all your eggs in one basket" as you say. The only other returning defenseman is Charif, and he was terrifying to watch in his own end last season. Cote moves the puck well, and seems to be able to quarterback the powerplay, though I worry about how he might play in his own end of the ice, when he can put up 40 and 30 point seasons, and still be a minus player on a strong team that arguably had the best goaltending tandem in the league.

[Moonergroupie]

Just reading through Gregg Drinnan's taking note and the Rebels definitely aren't alone in having players not report to camp. There are lots of them. Gregg has a couple interviews posted with former coaches in the whl and their take on why these players are not showing up. An interesting read to check out if you don't normally follow him.

[SectionNDeserter]

Seems to be getting more and more common these days. Prior to Sterzer, I can't really think of any significant Rebel player that just called it quits. Kirill Starkov was the last significant player to not report to the Rebels, however he was drafted and signed by an NHL team and was still trying to chase the dream.

Just a different mentality in general with the younger generation, and I think they are getting a lot more hockey shoved down their throats, and at earlier ages, and it is starting to take it's toll on them.

[Moonergroupie]

And then there was 26. I am guessing the Rebels are going to carry 23 (2 goalies, 8 defencemen, and 13 forwards) players for the season which means that 3 (1 defencemen and 2 forwards) players still need to be cut. Curious who everyone thinks it will be. Goalies are set. For Defencemen I am guessing that Fluery, Doetzel, Cote and Jansons are locks. Which leaves 1 of Charif, Mahura, Schmoorkoff, Strand and Grman to go. From what I have seen from the games I have been to, I think Charif and Grman make the team, not sure which of the other 3 goes though.
For Forwards, I consider Bleakley, Polei, Maxwell, Johnson, Feser, Kopeck, Pawlenchuk, and Musil locks. That leaves 2 of Fafard, Burke, Chorney, Nell, Dixon, McCarty and deWit to be sent home. From what I have seen I would cut Fafard and Burke. That's just me. I am interested if anyone attended the two exhibition games to hear what their opinion is.

[SectionNDeserter]

With the Rebels, there is always the numbers that they start the season with, and the numbers they have after the trade deadline. It also seems pretty likely that the Rebels are going to minus Fleury's services for, at best the first month of the season. I think that one of Strand and Schmoorkoff will go before the season starts. They both bring two different styles of game, and I would honestly be fine with keeping either of them.

My list of locks at forward is a little bigger. Nell was one of the best forwards in training camp and exhibition so far, deWitt has been tearing it up in exhibition, and I think that Burke, McCarty and Chorney have played well enough to stick. All eyes will be on Fafard and Dixon. If the Rebels are awarded the rights to host the Memorial cup, which I think is announced in October some time, I think that they are less likely to upgrade their overage situation (barring a complete goaltending collapse), as they will want as much of their resources available for improving the roster next season.

[calcheyup]

Per the Advocate, Jansons is out 8-10 weeks with an upper body injury. Grman hurt his foot blocking a shot; no indication in the article of the severity or time frame. Polei was/is hurt but Sutter seems to expect him back for Friday. Doetzel and Johnson should be in the lineup for the season opener as well.

Starting to get excited to see some hockey again. Hopefully work will allow me to get to the opener.:bevvy:

[SectionNDeserter]

Wouldn't be the Rebels if they didn't have an important part of the team out for a decent chunk of the season... Can't wait for Friday!

[Moonergroupie]

So far so good. If Burman had been on his game at all they would be 3 - 0 to start the season. Scoring by committee has looked really good from our forward lines. I think I am most impressed so far with the way the Rebels defence has looked and that is without one of the top defensemen in the WHL in the line up. It is early yet but nice to see some points going up on the board. Good tests coming up this week in Brandon and Regina which will give a better idea on where this team is really at.

[calcheyup]

So far so good. If Burman had been on his game at all they would be 3 - 0 to start the season. Scoring by committee has looked really good from our forward lines. I think I am most impressed so far with the way the Rebels defence has looked and that is without one of the top defensemen in the WHL in the line up. It is early yet but nice to see some points going up on the board. Good tests coming up this week in Brandon and Regina which will give a better idea on where this team is really at.
I'm looking forward to it, too.

Seems like a yearly rite of passage for Hoflin to get humiliated at the Centrium. Don't remember happened last year, but I remember they lit him up for like five goals in the first period or something silly like that two years ago as well.

The most encouraging thing so far in the young season is reading Sutter's comments about how receptive everyone is to what he's selling, how much the kids are buying in, etc. A stark contrast to the lack of cohesion, identity, and leadership last year, seemingly. I hope it stays that way.

By his comments in the Advocate, Sutter is planning on getting Grman out there for his first taste of WHL action at some point on this road trip, Fleury could be in the lineup as early as tonight, and Toth will start.

[Moonergroupie]

I am interested in see who comes out if Grman and Fluery tag in. Strand and Mahura have looked really solid in the games I have seen. Does Dixon get pulled out? He has really stepped his game from last year and seems to have a little smarter head on his shoulders when it comes to the stupid penalties this year. I guess it is a situation where the coaching staff says that they need everyone and it isnt anything that you have done wrong for why you are coming out of the line-up. Should keep the boys putting the effort in knowing that if they let up for a game, there are two capable guys waiting there to take their place. I am sure Burman will get into at least one game on the road trip so hopefully he can loose the nerves he had in the opener and have a bounce back game.

[Moonergroupie]

So just when you think things are looking up, the Rebels have an uninspired game like that against a team lower in the standings than them. They got 30 shots but it didn't sound like any of them were real quality chances. I guess anyone can have a bad game. Will be interesting if they bounce back in the next one or if this ends up being the same inconsistent team we seen last year. I can only guess that Sutter's comments are going to revolve around a lack of preparation. Maybe the coaches need to be spending more time helping these kids prepare for games.

[SectionNDeserter]

They got 30 shots but it didn't sound like any of them were real quality chances.I watched the webcast, and they actually had a whole bunch of quality chances, but Sawchenko slammed the door on them. The first goal was a tough one to let in, and really seemed to take the wind out of their sails. They needed those two points pretty bad, because their schedule isn't real easy now for a while. After the twenty or so bad passes/turnovers by Charif last night, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Mahura draw in for him for a game or two.

[calcheyup]

So just when you think things are looking up, the Rebels have an uninspired game like that against a team lower in the standings than them.
Lol, it's four games into the season. Where teams are in the standings doesn't mean anything right now.

As for the game itself, you win some and you lose some. It's a long season; there will be highs and lows. Two points would have been nice, but there are still games to be played on this roadie and they need to focus on those.

[Moonergroupie]

So much for team building on the road trip.

[SectionNDeserter]

Brandon is going to be one of the tougher opponents in the east this season. I didn't like their odds going into this game. I didn't however expect them to get blown out, and for a number of the veteran players to play so indifferently.

This is a team that could potentially be awarded the Memorial Cup hosting rights in a few days, and it is a little concerning that a few of the vets don't really seem to be that interested in being a part of that team.

[calcheyup]

This is a team that could potentially be awarded the Memorial Cup hosting rights in a few days, and it is a little concerning that a few of the vets don't really seem to be that interested in being a part of that team.
I would be interested to hear you elaborate on this.

[SectionNDeserter]

I would be interested to hear you elaborate on this.If it turns out that Red Deer will be hosting the Memorial Cup, I would guess that roughly half of the current team will be replaced between now and the trade deadline next season. That being said, the veteran players on this team should be playing their ASSES off, instead of taking two of the games leading up to the host committee's decision off. The players that work hard, and contribute something significant to the team, could potentially be competing in the Memorial Cup next season, those that aren't, will be traded/released in favor of players that the team believes can. I am sure that part of the selection process involves looking at how competitive a team has recently been, so it is quite concerning to me when players can't get up for games like these, as there really isn't anything at this level that compares to competing in the Memorial Cup.

[calcheyup]

I meant more in terms of who you don't feel is out there at the appropriate level of compete and intensity. Surely you don't mean the entire team?

[SectionNDeserter]

I meant more in terms of who you don't feel is out there at the appropriate level of compete and intensity. Surely you don't mean the entire team?I give the rookies a pass, but pretty much every other player on the team, with the exception of maybe Cote and Doetzel, weren't giving 100% for big parts of those two games. I lost count of all the weak passes that were made to nobody, and the number of board battles that they lost in those two games. It is going to be interesting to see what changes happen to the roster when Jansons is healthy enough to play.

[Moonergroupie]

With the announcement of the memorial cup coming to Red Deer it should make for a very interesting rest of the year. I am really interested to see how the players are going to respond. I can't see it being anything but....if you want to be on this team next year and have a chance to play for the memorial cup, you will put the effort in every night. There will be no room for freeloaders now.

Hopefully we don't see to much sacrificing of the future. I am sure there will be some first and second round draft picks traded and maybe the odd prospect though. Similar to Dumba being sent back if he was on a contender, maybe Colorado and Carolina use this as an opportunity to send Fluery and Bleaks back for one more year and delay the first year of the entry level contract being used up.

With Kopeck, Doetzel and Johnson looking like three really solid 20 year olds potentially coming back next year, there shouldn't be any upgrading that needs to happen there.

Goaltending still a big question mark. Burman needs to figure out what he has going on right now or he isn't going to be here long. Toth has been a nice surprise so far.

[SectionNDeserter]

Hopefully we don't see to much sacrificing of the future. I am sure there will be some first and second round draft picks traded and maybe the odd prospect though.It will all come down to how competitive Sutter wants the team to be at the tournament. I share your sentiment about setting the team back several years while building a contender, however at the same time, it wouldn't be a great feeling to miss the playoffs as the host team either.

As a host team in the WHL, you are really at a disadvantage in that respect. The OHL teams can't trade their 1st round picks, or the resulting player selected with that pick for a year. The byproduct of this is trades for impact players that aren't ridiculous like some of the trades that you see in the WHL. Look at Saskatoon, who had to unload 3 or 4 1st round picks in exchange for a handful of second-liners when they hosted the tournament.


Similar to Dumba being sent back if he was on a contender, maybe Colorado and Carolina use this as an opportunity to send Fluery and Bleaks back for one more year and delay the first year of the entry level contract being used up. Both will be 19 next season, and not eligible to play in the AHL. Fleury could crack the Carolina roster as a 19 year old, but Bleackley has a lot more competition as a centerman in Colorado, so I don't realistically see him playing there as a 19 year old.


With Kopeck, Doetzel and Johnson looking like three really solid 20 year olds potentially coming back next year, there shouldn't be any upgrading that needs to happen there. No real game-breakers there, but should be solid overage players next season, if a huge upgrade doesn't present itself.


Goaltending still a big question mark. Burman needs to figure out what he has going on right now or he isn't going to be here long. Toth has been a nice surprise so far.I agree, he has been given so much opportunity so far. Despite a very average training camp, he was brought in last season as a 16 year old to back up the CHL goaltender of the year. Despite a number of average/below average starts last season, Sutter didn't go out and acquire an experienced goaltender in the offseason, instead handing him the reigns on opening night. Now it would appear that he has already lost the starting job to a player that has played 15 fewer WHL games than him.

[calcheyup]

With Kopeck, Doetzel and Johnson looking like three really solid 20 year olds potentially coming back next year, there shouldn't be any upgrading that needs to happen there.
As much as I like Johnson, unless he shows something this year, he shouldn't be taking up an overage spot on a Memorial Cup team. I'll let the jury remain out on Kopeck for now, but this is the CHL championship we're talking about. "Really solid" doesn't cut it when you're playing against 3 other league champions; you need absolute studs. I absolutely do not look at that group and say "We're good there, no need to address that." Not a chance.

Saskatoon's overagers in Memorial Cup year: Nicholls (47-38-85), Walker (33-43-76), Ferland (29 points in 26 games). The question is not "Do the Rebels have the quality of overagers they need to win the Memorial Cup?", because the answer right now is no. The question is, "Is Sutter willing to give up the kind of assets necessary to acquire Walker or Ferland-caliber overagers?"

[SectionNDeserter]

"Really solid" doesn't cut it when you're playing against 3 other league champions; you need absolute studs. I absolutely do not look at that group and say "We're good there, no need to address that." Not a chance.If Sutter manages to snag some impact 19 year olds next season, it isn't really absolutely necessary for the overage players to put up a ton of points. However, if there is an overage player that is a top player in the league, that can be had for a reasonable price, I don't see the aforementioned players sticking around either.


Saskatoon's overagers in Memorial Cup year: Nicholls (47-38-85), Walker (33-43-76), Ferland (29 points in 26 games).Hate to go for the low-hanging fruit, but are you actually using the Blades Memorial cup team formula as a measuring stick here? Did you watch any of those games? :D

We are talking about a tournament that is almost two full seasons away. By that point Bleackely and Musil will almost certainly be putting up those kinds of numbers (as 19 and 18 year olds respectively), and Pawlenchuk as well as a handful of others on the team could potentially be putting up numbers like that by then.

By far, the Rebels' biggest issues will be;

Goaltending: Toth has been decent so far. I could be wrong, but I don't think either of their current goaltenders is going to be good enough to start in the Memorial cup next season. Looking over all of the goaltenders in the league, there is only three that are eligible to play in the league next season, that are really dominant goaltenders, but they would be very tough to pry away from their respective teams, if they are not playing pro.

Defense: If Fleury isn't back, it is going to be a very rough defense to build around. After Fleury and Doetzel, the bulk of the defensemen that they return from this season are mostly puck-moving defensemen that are not very strong on the wall, or in front of the net, that tend to spend a lot of time chasing the puck around their zone. Strand has a ways to go, but he could develop into that 'Underwood' type player that they have been missing the last few seasons--but if not, they are going to have to look elsewhere for that.

[calcheyup]

The Blades lack of success was kind of the point; even WITH powerhouse overagers they got pumped. It would have been a bloodbath with the likes of Wyatt Johnson as their 20 year olds.

And I'm not saying the rebels necessarily need big scorers like those guys - that's not the point. But they definitely DO need higher impact players than the likes of Johnson filling their overage spots. That's a fact.

[SectionNDeserter]

And I'm not saying the rebels necessarily need big scorers like those guys - that's not the point. But they definitely DO need higher impact players than the likes of Johnson filling their overage spots. That's a fact.Is it? Or would adding a handful of 19 year olds that can put up points, and retaining a solid hard-working two-way forward with good character like Johnson also work?

[calcheyup]

Is it?
Short answer: yes. That is, of course, barring significant and unexpected strides in Johnson's game. They don't need third line checking forwards occupying one of their precious few overage slots. This is the Memorial Cup we are talking about here. The implication that the Rebels are good to go with this trio of overagers and there is no need to worry about upgrading to play the 3 best teams in Canadian junior hockey, I think, just doesn't hold water.

[Moonergroupie]

Saskatoon had the talent and scoring but I think what they lacked was the coming together as a team. They were just a bunch of individuals that were thrown together. If the Rebels are going to upgrade their 20 year olds for next year, I would like to see them do it this year. That way everybody has time to gel and be part of the team....as opposed to being rental players.

Another disappointing game tonight. Hard to believe the team that played the first period tonight is the same team that bought into the system in the exhibition season and looked real solid in the first three games of the season. They were completely manhandled by a team that is quite a bit smaller than them. Medicine Hat made more passes on one shift early in the second than Red Deer made in the whole first period. All due to the way that The Tigers were using their speed to take away time and space, and get into the passing and shooting lanes. I find it odd that adjustments can't be made at the bench within the period to counteract the system the other team is playing. Half the grandmothers in the crowd could look at the lineups out there tonight and see how much smaller the Tigers forwards were and come up with the strategy of taking the body and wearing them down, and yet hardly a hit thrown by Red Deer in the first period.
The second, they come out hitting and completely change the dynamic of the game. Is this coaching, or the players not picking up what the coaches are laying down? I was really disappointed with what Maxwell, Johnson and Feser brought to the game.....which wasn't much. With how Johnson finished the year last year, and then come back supposedly a year older and stronger and have the same regression he had start of last year is going to be hard on this team. Was also thinking for most of the game that maybe we didn't win the Millette/Polei trade. Polei was awful. Made more tape to tape passes to Tigers than Rebels. Seemed to have no speed or hockey sense at all. Lastly, I don't care how good a team mate Fafard is or how good he is in the room, we could have significantly upgraded this overage spot for a 3rd to 5th round pick. I see no point in even having this overage player if he is going to play 5 minutes/game on the fourth line.

[calcheyup]

Saskatoon had the talent and scoring but I think what they lacked was the coming together as a team. They were just a bunch of individuals that were thrown together. If the Rebels are going to upgrade their 20 year olds for next year, I would like to see them do it this year. That way everybody has time to gel and be part of the team....as opposed to being rental players.

Another disappointing game tonight. Hard to believe the team that played the first period tonight is the same team that bought into the system in the exhibition season and looked real solid in the first three games of the season. They were completely manhandled by a team that is quite a bit smaller than them. Medicine Hat made more passes on one shift early in the second than Red Deer made in the whole first period. All due to the way that The Tigers were using their speed to take away time and space, and get into the passing and shooting lanes. I find it odd that adjustments can't be made at the bench within the period to counteract the system the other team is playing. Half the grandmothers in the crowd could look at the lineups out there tonight and see how much smaller the Tigers forwards were and come up with the strategy of taking the body and wearing them down, and yet hardly a hit thrown by Red Deer in the first period.
The second, they come out hitting and completely change the dynamic of the game. Is this coaching, or the players not picking up what the coaches are laying down? I was really disappointed with what Maxwell, Johnson and Feser brought to the game.....which wasn't much. With how Johnson finished the year last year, and then come back supposedly a year older and stronger and have the same regression he had start of last year is going to be hard on this team. Was also thinking for most of the game that maybe we didn't win the Millette/Polei trade. Polei was awful. Made more tape to tape passes to Tigers than Rebels. Seemed to have no speed or hockey sense at all. Lastly, I don't care how good a team mate Fafard is or how good he is in the room, we could have significantly upgraded this overage spot for a 3rd to 5th round pick. I see no point in even having this overage player if he is going to play 5 minutes/game on the fourth line.
Disappointing to hear. I'll be at the game tomorrow night and hopefully it isn't a repeat of the affair in Brandon, or this game, by the sounds of it.

[SectionNDeserter]

Saskatoon had the talent and scoring but I think what they lacked was the coming together as a team. They were just a bunch of individuals that were thrown together. If the Rebels are going to upgrade their 20 year olds for next year, I would like to see them do it this year. That way everybody has time to gel and be part of the team....as opposed to being rental players.Ideally every team in the league would like to do that. The reality is that teams are accountable to their fans, and just won't give up good players if they think that they play for them for two seasons (and why would they?). Next season there will be a handful of 19 year olds returned by their NHL teams, and it will become clear to the WHL teams holding their rights that they won't be back as overage players, and the Rebels will move on them at the deadline, and pay way too much for a few months of their services. I don't like it any more than you, but that is just the way the league works.


Another disappointing game tonight. Hard to believe the team that played the first period tonight is the same team that bought into the system in the exhibition season and looked real solid in the first three games of the season.Exhibition is exhibition. What you watched is 4th liners and 15 year olds thrive in situations against other 4th liners and 15 year olds that they wouldn't normally be in. It is a whole new ball game once everyone gets their players back from pro camps and those players are reassigned and they go back to 5 or 6 minutes of ice time a night.


They were completely manhandled by a team that is quite a bit smaller than them.I didn't really see any manhandling going on last night, as the Tigers are not a very physical team. The Tigers were quick, made lots of quick short passes, and recovered the puck in their own end of the ice about a thousand times better than the Rebels did last night. As you say, things turned around in the second when the Rebels started taking the body on them. The Tigers looked disorganized on every shift where they were getting hit. Too bad the hitting had to stop...


I was really disappointed with what Maxwell, Johnson and Feser brought to the game.....which wasn't much.With the exception of maybe Pawlenchuk, I don't know if any player wasn't disappointing last night. Johnson, Feser, Kopeck and Bleackley were leading the hit parade in the second, which was one of the few positives in that game.


With how Johnson finished the year last year, and then come back supposedly a year older and stronger and have the same regression he had start of last year is going to be hard on this team.He isn't the same player he was before he had all those concussions last year for sure. But he is currently on pace for 40 points and leads the team in +/-, so I wouldn't put a lot of stock in one bad game out of 124. I do worry about his health moving forward into next season though.


Was also thinking for most of the game that maybe we didn't win the Millette/Polei trade. Polei was awful. Made more tape to tape passes to Tigers than Rebels. Seemed to have no speed or hockey sense at all.
Again, based on one bad game, in a game where every Rebel had a bad game? Bleackley made several bad passes, and looked like he was skating in quicksand for most of the night, and Fleury actually stepped in front of his own goalie, and looked like he drew his stick in and intentionally tipped in the Tiger's point shot in... maybe we should release both of them? :rolleyes: Milette is a year older, and plagued with off-ice issues, releasing him would have improved the team. I am just glad that they got something back for him.


Lastly, I don't care how good a team mate Fafard is or how good he is in the room, we could have significantly upgraded this overage spot for a 3rd to 5th round pick. I see no point in even having this overage player if he is going to play 5 minutes/game on the fourth line.I think the Rebels would be negligent to start trading picks this year to upgrade players that won't be here for the Memorial Cup. When he does start wheeling and dealing to improve the roster, expect a number of the current 15/16 year old prospects to be parts of those deals. This years draft will be important, as these will be the players that will be expected to prop up the team again when the rentals are gone and they have a very young team again. I do agree that they could definitely upgrade on a bad defenseman/below average forward though from a skill standpoint. If Sutter does eventually replace Fafard, I doubt it will be an impact overage player, but more likely a player that is still an upgrade, but more of a 'bargain'.

[Moonergroupie]

I certainly agree that Fluery and Bleakley had tough games last night but both seemed to play better as the game wore on.....with the exception of Fluery tipping the Tigers 3rd goal past Toth. I think both of them are still suffering from the being sent back blues so hopefully they get over it sooner than later.
With the exception of the Calgary game, where Polei got two goals (and one of them was supposed to be a pass that went off a Calgary defender if I remember correctly) Polei hasn't offered much. He started the season on the top line and now finds himself on the third line which is obviously an indication of what the coaches think of his play so far. Last night was unacceptable for a player in this league. There were a few times where he was a step away from the puck and the Tiger player was three steps away and the Tigers ended up with the puck. He was in board battles with players that he had 30 or 40 lbs on and he pretty much lost everyone. He should probably be watching tonight's game. There has to be more urgency and effort in his game.

[calcheyup]

Post-game comments by Sutter have been pretty much identical after every loss in the last year plus. Lack of urgency, attention to detail, inconsistency, mental lapses, etc. So it's being acknowledged on a nightly basis, yet it never seems to change. Honestly it reminds me of when he coached the Flames, where every night it would seem the club would be plagued by the exact same problems that caused an L the night before. Very frustrating.

[calcheyup]

I feel like there are other things I should be more upset by, but if that's the effort Conner Bleackley is going to give this team on a nightly basis, he can stay the **** home. That was insulting to watch. Guy probably didn't even break a sweat tonight. Toth, as bad as he sunk us tonight, at least is trying.

Don't even want to get started on some other who deserve a blast.

[Moonergroupie]

I can't figure out why this team is so fragile. Any bit of controversy ... A bad goal, something doesn't go their way... and they just quit. Not just a few guys, but the whole team. Also seems the older guys get, the more they think they can take nights off and do whatever they want. It is like they are sick of the message/style that Sutter is putting down. Really strange how Bleackley was the one guy last year that never gave up and you could put out in the situations where everyone was having a mental lapse and he would come up with a good shift. This is one of the reasons he was given the C last year. I wasn't at the game tonight, but if what Calcheyup is saying is true, that is back to back nights of lack lustre effort from the captain. Maybe he is hurt, or maybe he is so out of shape from the summer (reason Roy sent him home from Colorado) that he hasn't got into game shape yet. If it is attitudes just need to be adjusted then obviously it has to do with Sutter's coaching (as it seems like the Rebels have suffered through this for years) and I would like to see Truit take over the bench. With the memorial cup coming up, Brent will have enough to keep himself busy with just the General Manager duties.

[calcheyup]

I can't figure out why this team is so fragile. Any bit of controversy ... A bad goal, something doesn't go their way... and they just quit. Not just a few guys, but the whole team. Also seems the older guys get, the more they think they can take nights off and do whatever they want. It is like they are sick of the message/style that Sutter is putting down. Really strange how Bleackley was the one guy last year that never gave up and you could put out in the situations where everyone was having a mental lapse and he would come up with a good shift. This is one of the reasons he was given the C last year. I wasn't at the game tonight, but if what Calcheyup is saying is true, that is back to back nights of lack lustre effort from the captain. Maybe he is hurt, or maybe he is so out of shape from the summer (reason Roy sent him home from Colorado) that he hasn't got into game shape yet. If it is attitudes just need to be adjusted then obviously it has to do with Sutter's coaching (as it seems like the Rebels have suffered through this for years) and I would like to see Truit take over the bench. With the memorial cup coming up, Brent will have enough to keep himself busy with just the General Manager duties.
In fairness to the club, things were going just fine until Toth absolutely - IMPLODED. All three of the goals before he was yanked were bad. I can give him a little rope on the 2-on-1 (which was just a bad situation thanks to Cote's stick coming apart), but it should have been stopped, and the two prior to that DEFINITELY should have been stopped. The goal Burman allowed was awful too, but given the fact he has been so abhorrent at every turn that Sutter won't even let him finish a game his starting goalie is doing his best to give away is telling.

As frustrating as it is to see the way the game went, it's extremely difficult to just power through it when your goalie is letting in every shot his way. You build up a 4-1 lead against one of the best teams in the Dub, and your goalie(s) singlehandedly give it away. I can understand how they weren't able to bounce back to an extent. I really don't feel like the team even crumbled, necessarily, to give up the lead, as the 4-2 and 4-3 goals weren't even on quality scoring opportunities, but yeah, they weren't able to respond after they gave up the lead.

As for Bleackley though... man. Coasted around all night, and either he is WAY out of shape, or he just doesn't care, because he was moving in slow motion all night. Just a very apathetic game from him, too, the way he pursued the puck, the way he (didn't) backcheck. I usually reserve this comparison for those whose play I truly despise, but he looked a lot like Matt Dumba v.2 out there tonight in terms of how little junior hockey interested him.

Fleury finished the game +1 with a helper, but didn't look particularly good out there at all. It also never ceases to amaze me, no matter how many times I see it, how soft Scott Feser is. That guy could get pushed off the puck by Peewee defensemen.

Just a brutal L tonight. At the same time, I hate to bag on the entire team because with even mediocre net minding we are looking at a nice home win for this club.

[SectionNDeserter]

As for Bleackley though... man. Coasted around all night, and either he is WAY out of shape, or he just doesn't care, because he was moving in slow motion all night. Just a very apathetic game from him... Fleury finished the game +1 with a helper, but didn't look particularly good out there at all.Some guys accept their reassignment, and come back motivated to improve, others go through a period of sulking. It looks like Bleackley and Fleury are doing the latter.


It also never ceases to amaze me, no matter how many times I see it, how soft Scott Feser is. That guy could get pushed off the puck by Peewee defensemen.He looked like a man on a mission last season, after returning to the team after a few months in the AJHL. This season he is getting outplayed by 16 and 17 year old players on the 4th line. He had about 8 or 9 solid chump passes last night as well, that were easily intercepted or blocked by Wheat King players.


Just a brutal L tonight. At the same time, I hate to bag on the entire team because with even mediocre net minding we are looking at a nice home win for this club.A better effort overall I thought, they were outworking and outplaying Brandon for stretches of this game. This is exactly how I thought most games in the first half would look, with the inexperienced/underachieving goaltending costing them games, rather than the sixty minute lack of effort we had seen in the previous 4 or 5 games. I still stand by my prediction that they don't get to 15 games before they replace one of the goaltenders.

[D cherry]

I thought Toth would have of been the man for the job . he played a good first period then the wheel come off his bus . I hope this kid came bring his A game for sixty minutes .

[Moonergroupie]

Funny as the only part of the broadcast I heard was the report from the coach and he basically put the breakdown on the whole team. There was mention of not getting a timely save, but he certainly did not throw his goaltender under the bus for the loss as others are. It was the same thing in game 1 where he put the defensemen on the blame for not blocking guys out on rebounds. Yet all Burman had to do was not drop the puck on easy shots and two less goals would have gone in.
The players are going to soon tire of taking the blame for goals that the goalies had no business letting in.

[calcheyup]

I'm speechless.

[Moonergroupie]

All I can say is wow. The worst part now is the Rebels have made themselves into the team that you can come back on which means no team is going to quit against them.

Really have to wonder what Mike Moller is smoking with his three star selection. Feser scored 1 goal, was a -2 on the night. Wyatt Johnson given a star for his penalty killing and yet the Royals got two power play goals. I don't know. Maybe Johnson wasn't on for either power play goal.

All I know listening to the radio tonight is I heard Carroll and Hicketts mentioned a lot of times in the last two periods.

Again, wasn't at the game and I missed the first period but listening it sounded like Bleackley and Fluery were once again average at best. Same as last year. Something not right in this room.

[calcheyup]

As tempting as it is after consecutive abominable losses, it is still to early to press the panic button. We are, after all, less than 10 games in.

That's about all the positive I can come up with right now.

[Moonergroupie]

After these last 3 games, if Sutter wasn't the coach, he would be strongly considering making a coaching change. While we are early yet, I hope we are not looking back on this when the Rebels miss the playoffs by 3 points and saying if only they didn't have those two implosions against Brandon and Victoria.

[Moonergroupie]

Yet another loss. The worst part about tonight's loss was the players that are supposed to be leading this team this year were the ones taking the stupid penalties that ended up costing the Rebels the game. Would love to see a coaching change, but don't see that happening anytime soon so can't see how we don't see a trade this week to try to shake things up a bit.

[calcheyup]

I don't know what's going to change here, but something has to. The guys aren't playing for Sutter right now, and I don't know if it's his fault or not, but it's obvious. What is his fault, however, is not having a WHL-caliber goaltender on the roster. That hurts, and it's not like it's a surprise to anyone.

It's barely 10 games in and the song-and-dance has already gotten old. Meachem doesn't even need to interview Sutter anymore, he can cut-and-paste the exact same comments and just insert them as appropriate. Same story as last season; Sutter identifies the same problems night after night, and they never change. As I said earlier, this is exactly how his stint in Calgary went.

This isn't an attempt to lay the blame for this season so far at Brent's feet, but it is an accurate observation.

[Moonergroupie]

Don't see how we can't put the blame at Sutter's feet. It has just been way to consistent with this team for a lot of years. The players have obviously tired of the message that is being put in front of them and the way they are being handled/treated. Did this team not go something like 8 for 10 when Sutter was at the world juniors last year? I know everyone was pissed with the way they lost the games before Thanksgiving, but after seeing the way they played in these last two games it is obvious that the punishment of working their butts off in practise instead of enjoying Thanksgiving didn't work. I also have to wonder what Bleaks is doing playing on the wing. He is a natural center man and excelled in the position last year. Maybe Sutter needs to just go with what works as opposed to trying to make players into something that they are not.

[calcheyup]

From what I have gathered, Colorado sees Bleackley playing on the wing, so that's what he's doing out there. Blaming that for his performance is letting the kid off the hook way too easily, though. With the level of give-a-F he's playing with out there right now, it wouldn't matter what position he was in.

[calcheyup]

Rebels acquire 18-year-old forward Tyler Sandhu from Everett for a '15 4th and a '16 4th. He's got 1 point in 9 games this year.

[Moonergroupie]

Nothing like making a splash and changing the dynamics of your team. Which fourth liner is sitting so he can play?

[SectionNDeserter]

Rebels acquire 18-year-old forward Tyler Sandhu from Everett for a '15 4th and a '16 4th. He's got 1 point in 9 games this year.But also back to back 30+ point seasons. The fact that no player went the other way, leads me to believe that Fafard is on his way out, to make way for an overage goaltender pickup. Alternatively, this could be a move that was made in preparation for Feser or Chorney to be reassigned.

[calcheyup]

Reports are he has regressed since his 16-year-old season, was unwilling to accept a diminished role, and asked to be traded. Not a ringing endorsement, but I'll wait to see how he acquits himself here. He did score 19 goals as a 16 in the WHL, which is an accomplishment not to be taken lightly.

[SectionNDeserter]

One step forward, two steps back. :rolleyes:

http://www.reddeerrebels.com/article/marcus-grodd-coming

[SectionNDeserter]

Reports are he has regressed since his 16-year-old season, was unwilling to accept a diminished role, and asked to be traded.According to him, it was a complete surprise and he didn't ask to be traded. I imagine the truth lies somewhere in the middle though.


He did score 19 goals as a 16 in the WHL, which is an accomplishment not to be taken lightly.Nope, if Sutter can tap into that production again, this could be a steal of a deal.

[Moonergroupie]

We have seen this experiment before with Inglis, Bellerive and many more. Trying to think of one that actually paned out. There has to be some reason that he went from top prospect to 4th liner. Now he has come to a team that has had problems with their own players regressing as opposed to developing to a higher level and we think there might be a chance that he regains his former scoring prowess. Will see I guess, for the Rebels sake I hope he does.

[SectionNDeserter One step forward, two steps back.

http://www.reddeerrebels.com/article...s-grodd-coming][/QUOTE]

Lol. Really have to wonder how many more people the Rebels marketing people are expecting to come to the game with this draw.

[LongTimeFan]

We have seen this experiment before with Inglis, Bellerive and many more. Trying to think of one that actually paned out. There has to be some reason that he went from top prospect to 4th liner. Now he has come to a team that has had problems with their own players regressing as opposed to developing to a higher level and we think there might be a chance that he regains his former scoring prowess. Will see I guess, for the Rebels sake I hope he does.

[SectionNDeserter One step forward, two steps back.

http://www.reddeerrebels.com/article...s-grodd-coming]

Lol. Really have to wonder how many more people the Rebels marketing people are expecting to come to the game with this draw.[/QUOTE]

[SectionNDeserter]

We have seen this experiment before with Inglis, Bellerive and many more. Trying to think of one that actually paned out.They threw a nickel at Vancouver for the disgruntled Andrej Kudrna. Wasn't much of a playoff performer, but put up 136 points over two regular seasons. I actually had a look, and couldn't find any other disgruntled players that they acqured besides Inglis, Bellerive and Kudrna, at least in the last twelve years or so. They unloaded a few of them on other teams for sure though.


There has to be some reason that he went from top prospect to 4th liner.From everything that I have read about him, his regression began when Hartsburg was fired. Getting a player that potted 19 goals as a 16 year old without giving up a pick in the first three rounds or a roster player could end up being a steal.


Lol. Really have to wonder how many more people the Rebels marketing people are expecting to come to the game with this draw.Aside from the worry that they are actually paying this helmet to make an appearance, I worry that they are trying to fill the building with people, regardless of whether they give a crap about hockey or not.

[Moonergroupie]

I guess I was also including the guys that Sutter was giving a second chance to as well. The Austin Fergusons and Locke Muller's of the world. Then there was that kid that was supposed be the toughest kid in the league but wouldn't play for Regina (I think) because that was the only roll they wanted him to play. Red Deer offered him an actual playing roll so he came here, but never made the team as he was so out of shape. Can't remember his name.

Forgot about Kudnra. That was one that panned out till any kind of hitting started and then he would disappear.

[SectionNDeserter]

I guess I was also including the guys that Sutter was giving a second chance to as well. The Austin Fergusons and Locke Muller's of the world.I don't mind the Austin Ferguson's, as he gave up nothing to acquire him. Muller is more lumped in with the Jr. A gambles, the Oursov's, Bell's, Hak's, Thiel's, Jesse Miller's and Boomgaarten's that don't really cost the team anything but a spot on the protected list. Marc McKenzie is one of those in-betweeners that played for PA, but then was out of the WHL for a year when Red Deer picked him up for nothing.


Then there was that kid that was supposed be the toughest kid in the league but wouldn't play for Regina (I think) because that was the only roll they wanted him to play. Red Deer offered him an actual playing roll so he came here, but never made the team as he was so out of shape. Can't remember his name.Red Deer drafted Brandon Tidball in the 2000 bantam draft, but that is the only player that I can think of that even remotely matches that description.

[Moonergroupie]

It wasn't him. Was maybe 3 or 4 years ago. Sutter was all excited to get the kid, there was a write up in the advocate about it and then he shows up totally out of shape. If I remember right, I think he got into a couple exhibition games and then got cut. Doesn't matter anyway.

Looking forward to see what the new kid can do this weekend. Maybe he can provide enough of a spark to get some of the underachievers going.

[Red celtic]

Maybe the Rebs feel Sandhu will be the next Rhyse Dieno a Med Hat cast off who put up some decent numbers.

[calcheyup]

Interested to see how Bleackley and Fleury respond tonight to being called out on their attitudes by Sutter in the Advocate.

[SectionNDeserter]

It wasn't him. Was maybe 3 or 4 years ago. Sutter was all excited to get the kid, there was a write up in the advocate about it and then he shows up totally out of shape. If I remember right, I think he got into a couple exhibition games and then got cut.Red Deer traded some 3rd liners (JD Watt and Scott Doucet) for a 3rd liner in Cody Gross and 16 year old former first round pick Brett Miller back in 2008. Miller certainly wasn't billed as being even remotely tough, but stood out in that deal, due to where he was drafted, and being only 16. He played 26 games as a 16 year old before being reassigned, and 9 as a 17 year old before being reassigned and eventually traded to Everett. I think that is probably who you are thinking of, as he definitely had issues with conditioning and motivation.

[SectionNDeserter]

Interested to see how Bleackley and Fleury respond tonight to being called out on their attitudes by Sutter in the Advocate.Probably don't even know, most people under 60 don't read the newspaper anymore. ;)

They certainly looked a lot better than they did in any other game this season though.

[calcheyup]

Everyone answered the bell tonight. Toth still looked shaky, but in the end he made the saves he needed to. Good solid win for the boys tonight. Musil is a beast. Great to see Sandhu double his season point total in one game. He was out on the top PP unit too, so if it wasn't clear before what Sutter expects of him, it is now.Really happy to see Johnson pot a couple as well; unlike the majority of the forwards, he doesn't take nights off due to mood swings, so it's always nice to see a player like that have success on the scoresheet.

Hoping to see more of the same tomorrow.

[Red celtic]

[QUOTE=SectionNDeserter;198186]Probably don't even know, most people under 60 don't read the newspaper anymore. ;)

There is something to be said about the feel of of course news print in the morning. :cool:

[SectionNDeserter]

There is something to be said about the feel of of course news print in the morning. :cool:Case in point! :D

[calcheyup]

There are a million obvious things to say about a very nice win, but I want to focus on a couple that perhaps were less noticed:

- Strand looked very good out there tonight. For awhile in the first two periods I didn't see hardly any of Mahura or Grman, it was almost like a 4 man bench back there. Grman didn't blow me away by any means, but he initiated some physicality and made a nice first pass a couple times.

- *** is Sutter's infatuation with a forward on the point on the powerplay? Specifically, offensively challenged forwards? Maxwell cost them a goal tonight an indecisive pinch, and Nell (really? Nell manning the point on the powerplay?) also gave up an odd man rush. Just not acceptable mistakes and teams will spank them if they keep making them. It's not like those guys are snipers or bring big shots. There's no reason to have them out there and I wish we would see less of it.

Speaking of Maxwell, if Sutter can get anything for him - a late round pick, whatever, something that he could use in a package to roll into a quality player this year or next - he needs to do it. He's driftwood as an overager. I'd say the same thing about Fafard but no GM in the Dub would give up any sort of asset for him.

- The last two games have been the most physical and aggressive I've seen the Rebels play in a long time. They looked like a Sutter team for a change.

[SectionNDeserter]

Strand looked very good out there tonight. For awhile in the first two periods I didn't see hardly any of Mahura or Grman, it was almost like a 4 man bench back there. Grman didn't blow me away by any means, but he initiated some physicality and made a nice first pass a couple times.Strand has graduated to the 2nd pairing with Cote for the last two games, and not looked out of place. For me, he is probably the most pleasant surprise this season.

Grman threw about seven or eight huge hits (connected with about two or three of them). Seemed like his primary focus when he was on the ice was to try put guys on their wallets. Yakubowski finally had enough of it late in the game and tried to goad him into a fight.


*** is Sutter's infatuation with a forward on the point on the powerplay? Specifically, offensively challenged forwards?O'Rourke apparently runs all of the special teams, however it is still a common Sutter tactic for as long as I can remember. In the past, Sutter has done it even at even strength, with forwards that he is trying to force a shred of defensive game into. Sometimes it worked (Versteeg), other times it didn't (Jones). Mahura would have done as good of a job, and would have been learning a skillset that he will clearly be employing in the future.


Speaking of Maxwell, if Sutter can get anything for him - a late round pick, whatever, something that he could use in a package to roll into a quality player this year or next - he needs to do it. He's driftwood as an overager.I don't really see him going anywhere. Not too many teams are looking to make a lateral move with their overage players, so Maxwell is probably worth more to the Rebels for his penalty killing and intangibles, than they could ever hope to get in a trade. Cote on the other hand, could be valuable come trade deadline time.

[calcheyup]

If this team is competitive come trade deadline time, I can't see them trading Cote.

[SectionNDeserter]

It is almost November, and they are not even at .500. They have been making steps to improve their play, however at this point they are probably going to be fortunate to be in a position where they are squeaking into the playoffs by the trade deadline.

Strand is making great strides as the year progresses, and if Mahura and/or Grman and/or Jansons become regulars, I can see them moving Cote at the deadline, for some resources for their run next season.

[calcheyup]

There's what, 59 games out of 72 left, and they're 2 games under .500? A little early to pronounce them dead on the table. I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment of where they will probably be at that time of year, but it way too early to say they're finished. Also way too early to say the combination of young defensemen are capable of filling the hole left by arguably the teams best player so far this year.

[calcheyup]

Nice article on Strand in the Advocate. Anyone know why Charif was scratched last game? Obviously he must be hurt, but anyone know the severity/timeline?

[SectionNDeserter]

I think it was Troy Gillard that mentioned on Twitter that he had a 'minor injury' that kept him out of the last two games.

[calcheyup]

I think it was Troy Gillard that mentioned on Twitter that he had a 'minor injury' that kept him out of the last two games.
Thanks. I really wish their actual website and PR team would keep us posted on this kind of stuff, instead of having to rely on the paper and Twitter (which I don't use).

[SectionNDeserter]

He walked up the stairs past me, and he didn't exactly have a spring in his step, some sort of a lower-body injury.

[calcheyup]

Nice W. A full team effort tonight. I'm not gonna say RD intimidated the Tigers, but there's no question that they frustrated them with their physicality. That's the first time I've seen Medicine Hat play this year and that was a fast, skilled club. RD did a good job for most of the game making MH pay for everything, zone entry, along the boards, loose pucks. The forward group did a really good job in their own end tonight as well, I thought.

It was nice to see the other team's goalie let in some softies for a change. The rebound Toth gave up on the first goal was terrible, but other than that he did what he needed to, especially in the third, when the boys looked pretty tired.

Not a perfect game, but a pretty solid one nonetheless. This homestand couldn't have gone better; they looked like an entirely different team.

Hopefully they carry it into the road trip.

[Moonergroupie]

Wasn't at the game but listened to it on the radio. Did Sutter have four forwards out on the power play again when they gave up the shortie this time? That definitely needs to be addressed as that was a crucial point in the game and then when MH scored again I figured they were done. Really good Pawly potted the break away goal or this one probably would have ended up the other way.

[calcheyup]

Wasn't at the game but listened to it on the radio. Did Sutter have four forwards out on the power play again when they gave up the shortie this time? That definitely needs to be addressed as that was a crucial point in the game and then when MH scored again I figured they were done. Really good Pawly potted the break away goal or this one probably would have ended up the other way.
Yes, Maxwell was out, and if IIRC was part of a pretty scrambly play at the blueline that landed MH an odd-man rush.

Nell did score on the 5-on-3 for what it's worth. But yeah. They were lucky to get away with giving up another SHG tonight. If Langhamer played like he usually does, who knows how this would have turned out. But he let in a couple he shouldn't have and luckily we don't need to focus on these kinds of mistakes costing the Rebels a game. Only other negative was that Cote failed to prevent a pass on a pair of odd-man rushes. The second goal Cox set up Cote took himself out of position to challenge Cox who was already below the hashmarks and quickly running out of angle, and he slid it to Owre for a tap-in.

With that said, there were a boatload of positives from everyone tonight to offset what didn't go right. They earned it; they caught some breaks, yes, but they earned them and at the end of the day they beat a team that came in 11-1. Obviously there are things to improve on, but I don't want to seem like I'm slamming these guys even after a nice win.

[Moonergroupie]

How did Sandhu look last night? Had nothing on the score sheet and I don't remember hearing his name much on the broadcast. Lights out his first game, average his second and non existant in the 3rd?

Really have to wonder what they are going to do with Burman. It obviously did him no good at all to be permanent gate opener behind Barto last year and it looks like he is getting the same role this year. I know he has struggled in his starts and Toth has been playing well, but I cant see how this is helping Burman gain any confidence and develop at all. The Rebels would be better off bringing in an older goalie from the AJHL (maybe Naherniak is still around) to back up Toth and send Burman somewhere he can actually get into some games and get his mojo going. They can always bring him back once he gets some confidence and becomes more reliable.

[SectionNDeserter]

How did Sandhu look last night? Had nothing on the score sheet and I don't remember hearing his name much on the broadcast. Lights out his first game, average his second and non existant in the 3rd?If you are merely going strictly by point production alone, then that sounds about right. He had a few chances in the last few games, but more importantly, he battled in front of the net, and in the slot on a pretty consistent basis. He is a younger version of Feser, without all the giveaways and muffin passes.


The Rebels would be better off bringing in an older goalie from the AJHL (maybe Naherniak is still around) to back up Toth and send Burman somewhere he can actually get into some games and get his mojo going They can always bring him back once he gets some confidence and becomes more reliable.Playing goal is a tough route for a kid to take, and I can almost guarantee you that if they were to reassign Burman after he spent all of one season, and part of another season opening the gate on the bench, that he would never report back here. The Rebels are in a tough spot with him, and are probably going to end up having to trade him at some point, because Toth can't play every game for the rest of the season, and with their poor start, they can't really afford to lose every game that Burman starts in, to get him more experience.

It is really too bad, because I think he could have been a decent goaltender, he just had no business being in the WHL last season, and could have really done with another year of getting starts, even at a lower level.

[WesternHockeyScout]

Moose Jaw will likely be looking to unload Paulic before January 10th and hand Sawchenko the reigns, if they haven't already. He's a legit starter in this league and would be a good pickup

[SectionNDeserter]

Paulic is a passable starter, who I have watched get steadily worse over the last three seasons. If his numbers continue to decline, he is basically an overage backup goaltender next season. I have no problem with them getting Paulic, if it is for almost free, as they need all the assets they can get. I have a feeling that they will make a bold move for a big-name goaltender next season, so they need a VERY cheap short-term solution.

[calcheyup]

Sutters not giving up assets for a guy who has never had a season GAA below 3 or a save percentage above .900. I don't really see him as an upgrade on what Toth is currently giving the team. With section N here, unless it's basically for free, no way.

[calcheyup]

Monster night for Cote. Wow.

[Moonergroupie]

Don't know if I am happy or sad that the Rebels score 7 and neither Bleaks or Fluery register a point. Doesn't look good at all that both players were a minus on the night.

[calcheyup]

Don't know if I am happy or sad that the Rebels score 7 and neither Bleaks or Fluery register a point. Doesn't look good at all that both players were a minus on the night.
That was immediately noticeable to me, as well, but I didn't see the game so I can't say much. Gonna stream the game tonight. Fleury and Bleackley have played 100% differently since Sutter blasted them and they've won 4 straight, so it's difficult to be too concerned about it.

[SectionNDeserter]

I don't think that it is too much to worry about, they at least looked motivated in the game, despite not doing anything on the scoresheet.

[Red celtic]

I don't think that it is too much to worry about, they at least looked motivated in the game, despite not doing anything on the scoresheet.
Have to agree Bleackly and Fluery played well I was more concerned that the team can't put a shot on net. It is always high and wide. :confused:

[SectionNDeserter]

Last year they were just shooting it directly at the goalies chest, I think that they are just going for a little variety! :D

If they score 25 goals again over their next five games doing it, they can shoot it wherever they want as far as I am concerned.

[Red celtic]

Can't argue with that logic.
:groovy:
[QUOTE=SectionNDeserter;198357]Last year they were just shooting it directly at the goalies chest, I think that they are just going for a little variety! :D

[calcheyup]

So the goaltending won us a game. Awesome. I hope Burman can build on that.

Outside of the fact that the game went in the win column and Burman, not many positives from last night. A very tired, sloppy effort from the Rebels. But hey, that's five straight.

[Moonergroupie]

Hopefully in practice the last couple of days, Polei has given Bleaks some pointers on how to fight. Musil held his own, but Bleaks was definately a fish out of water.

[SectionNDeserter]

Probably a skill that Bleackley should have a better understanding of, but certainly one that he can get by without having.

[calcheyup]

8 of a possible 12 points, that very well could have been 10 out of 12, on a road trip with a lot of travel against some pretty good clubs. I don't think anyone can be too unhappy about that.

[Red celtic]

Red Deer sends Chorney to Junior A.
http://www.reddeerrebels.com/article/rebels-send-chorney-to-junior-a

[SectionNDeserter]

Not really much of a shock here. He seemed to hit the ceiling of his development and wasn't really improving a great deal. I think that the play of De Wit, and the fact that De Wit is two years younger made this a pretty easy decision. He has probably only been around for the last few weeks while the team tried to find a deal out there to keep him in the WHL.

[SectionNDeserter]

And now Janssons released, without ever seeing a single game. The cycle of failed import defensemen in Red Deer continues. Will be interesting to see what Sutter does with the import situation, with the Memorial cup being in Red Deer next season and him holding an open import spot now.

[calcheyup]

And now Janssons released, without ever seeing a single game. The cycle of failed import defensemen in Red Deer continues. Will be interesting to see what Sutter does with the import situation, with the Memorial cup being in Red Deer next season and him holding an open import spot now.
Sutter:

"To be quite honest, we were certainly expecting more after listening to his agent and other people (scouts) over there. That's the way it works sometimes, that there's a misconception regarding the level of play in the CHL."

Uh...wow. So he was a complete bum basically. I think it's probably about time for Sutter to stop listening to agents and "other people" in Europe when it comes to defensemen. Grman hasn't done much to write home about either. Don't get me wrong, he hasn't embarrassed himself out there in the manner Dixon/Gaudet/Fafard did last year, so that's definitely a step up, but nor has he been an impact player.

More importantly, any news on when Charif will be back in the lineup? Anyone have the scoop on that? At first I thought his injury sounded relatively minor but he's missed what, 3 weeks now?

On another note, I checked the team stats for the first time in awhile today: Brett Cote +10, with 19 points in 20 games, now. Wow. And Wyatt Johnson is well on his way to making me eat my words regarding his inclusion on the club next year with 16 points in 20 games, +11, and the guarantee that he will show up to play every night. Speaking on that particular subject, Kopeck hasn't even proven that he's better than Scott Feser this year as a 19-year-old; that's...not good.

Bleackley has certainly been a different player since Sutter's tongue-lashing, but at the same time he isn't dominating in the way I feel like he should be. Could be worse, he could be playing like Fleury. Wondering when he's going to "get it" this year.

Four must-have points for the Rebels at home this weekend before a pair against Medicine Hat next week. Looking forward to being at the Centrium Friday and Saturday after a long, cold couple weeks of work.

[Red celtic]

More importantly, any news on when Charif will be back in the lineup? Anyone have the scoop on that? At first I thought his injury sounded relatively minor but he's missed what, 3 weeks now?

Looks like he could be out for another 6 weeks or so here is the link to the WHL weekly report.
http://whl.uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/chl_whl/2014/11/11/Weekly_Report_Nov_10_2014.pdf

[SectionNDeserter]

Uh...wow. So he was a complete bum basically. I think it's probably about time for Sutter to stop listening to agents and "other people" in Europe when it comes to defensemen.Like most WHL (or all?) WHL teams, they have no network of scouts overseas, so who do you propose that they listen to?


Grman hasn't done much to write home about either. Don't get me wrong, he hasn't embarrassed himself out there in the manner Dixon/Gaudet/Fafard did last year, so that's definitely a step up, but nor has he been an impact player.He can skate at an adequate level for the WHL, however there isn't any possible way that he is actually 6'1 and 190lbs. He goes for the big hit two or three times on every shift, which is moderately entertaining when he connects (and not so much when he doesn't), but he hasn't put up a single point through 11 games, and it has got to be tough for him to develop with nine full-time defensemen on the roster to compete with for ice time.


More importantly, any news on when Charif will be back in the lineup? Anyone have the scoop on that? At first I thought his injury sounded relatively minor but he's missed what, 3 weeks now?From what RC has dug up, another 6 weeks. He was actually starting to look like a WHL defensemen in the games leading up to his injury, it will be interesting to see if he is able to get right back into that groove after being off for two months and change.


Kopeck hasn't even proven that he's better than Scott Feser this year as a 19-year-old; that's...not good.They both have similar talent sets offensively, but Kopeck doesn't turn the puck over or pass it to the other team five or six times a game like Feser does. There isn't even any sort of a comparison between the speed and accuracy of Kopeck and Feser's passes, Kopeck is miles ahead of him in that respect, and in his play away from the puck in general.


Could be worse, he could be playing like Fleury. Wondering when he's going to "get it" this year.Fleury hasn't been 'terrible' as a WHL defenseman since Sutter called him and Bleackley out, however he has been terrible for a first round selection in the NHL draft. Silver lining for the Rebels, is that if he continues to play as he has, there is zero chance that he could crack even Carolina's weak blueline next season.

[calcheyup]

More importantly, any news on when Charif will be back in the lineup? Anyone have the scoop on that? At first I thought his injury sounded relatively minor but he's missed what, 3 weeks now?

Looks like he could be out for another 6 weeks or so here is the link to the WHL weekly report.
http://whl.uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/chl_whl/2014/11/11/Weekly_Report_Nov_10_2014.pdf
Thank you!

[calcheyup]

From what RC has dug up, another 6 weeks. He was actually starting to look like a WHL defensemen in the games leading up to his injury, it will be interesting to see if he is able to get right back into that groove after being off for two months and change.
Indeed. If he could do that, it would be a huge boost to have him back there and would make me feel pretty good about their defensive group.


Fleury hasn't been 'terrible' as a WHL defenseman since Sutter called him and Bleackley out, however he has been terrible for a first round selection in the NHL draft. Silver lining for the Rebels, is that if he continues to play as he has, there is zero chance that he could crack even Carolina's weak blueline next season.
Well yeah, that's my point. And it's true of Bleackley to a lesser extent - although Bleackley hasn't been "terrible" for a 1st rounder nor has he looked like one of the best players in the WHL, which is what you'd expect from a guy drafted in that position. Both Musil and Johnson have been better than Bleackley this year, and likewise Fleury has been soundly outplayed by at least Cote and Doetzel. That needs to change going forward.

Fun fact of the day: Lukas Sutter is (somehow) playing pro hockey. By the looks of his numbers, he is stinking up the ECHL.

[calcheyup]

For those counting, the difference between Brett Cote and Haydn Fleury's plus-minus sits at a ridiculous 18 goals over 22 games.:eek:

What's the over-under on amount of points out of 10 that you expect the Rebels to collect in their next five, three against Medicine Hat and two against Calgary?

[Red celtic]

For those counting, the difference between Brett Cote and Haydn Fleury's plus-minus sits at a ridiculous 18 goals over 22 games.:eek:

What's the over-under on amount of points out of 10 that you expect the Rebels to collect in their next five, three against Medicine Hat and two against Calgary?

I would be happy with 6 points out of a possible 10 M.H. goal-tending is top notch but the boys have been playing decent hockey as of late looking forward to see how the week unfolds.

[Moonergroupie]

I was going to say 6 of 10 as well. I have been really impressed with the way the Rebels have been playing the last 10 games. If not for that 5 game slide where they kind of lost their way, they would be right up there with the tops of the league. I didn't think even the broadcast crew gave the Rebels enough credit after the last game when they were talking about the upcoming games. They made the Hitmen sound like a team that was 15 points ahead of the Rebels in the standing as opposed to a point behind at the time. The Rebels have played MH tough as well with the exception of the implosion they had the first game. Hopefully we are done with those now. I think what got me the most excited from the last game though was that Fluery looked like he actually wanted to be out there for a change. His best game of the season by far that I have seen. Adds a whole other element to this team if he can get going. Loved seeing Strand step up and lay out the kid cutting through the middle too. Cote's offense and Strand are the biggest surprises on the team so far this year for me.

[calcheyup]

Well, Calgary usually has a good club and they have dominated Red Deer the last few years, so even though they are close in the standings it's still a pretty smallish sample size. I get where those guys are coming from, plus we've only seen Calgary once this year. They are gonna be tough games; the Hitties are never a gimme.

[calcheyup]

When you've got guys like Sanford and Cox out there on the PK against you, this one forward on the back end nonsense has GOT to stop. Medicine Hat will turn the puck around and have an odd man rush against you before you can even turn around after turning the puck over. Toth had to save a shorthanded goal on a breakaway there at the end of the first. It's got to stop. It's not helping the powerplay and this Tigers team will torch you for any defensive miscue, even a man down. Enough is enough.

Mahura joining the rush caused an odd-man rush coming back the other way as well. I'm not saying the defensemen need to be afraid of joining the rush, but they need to really pick their spots against a team that can move the puck like this. There's no way the Rebels can beat Med Hat in a track meet, so if you're jumping up from the blueline you better be damn sure that puck isn't going to be going the other way and in the back of your net three seconds after you make that decision.

Great first period from Toth, and honestly I didn't think the Rebels played as poorly as the shots would indicate in that frame. They generated a couple pretty decent chances and slowing Medicine Hat down through the neutral zone is a full time job in and of itself.

As for the rest of the game - we'll call this one a reality check. Rebels have been playing some good hockey lately, but they looked totally out of their league against MH for most of the night.

[SectionNDeserter]

I am not a big fan of the forward on the point, but Sutter doesn't really have a lot of other options at the moment for powerplay quarterbacks. Who does he put out there? Doetzel is already getting double-shifted on the PK and even strength at times, Mahura is barely WHL ready, much less ready to QB the powerplay, Charif is injured. Strand is already getting an unusual amount of ice time for a rookie, Grman is doing well to just get dressed for a game, much less work the powerplay. On top of that, Fleury isn't playing anywhere near good enough for Sutter to simply double-shift him all the time on the power play, and if he did, we would just be seeing twice as much of his indifference.

We are seeing Maxwell out there mostly due to the injury to Charif. I think that they were also counting on Dixon to round out into that calming, low-risk defenseman that could chew up a ton of minutes and give them more options (like they had with Underwood) with Doetzel.

[calcheyup]

I am not a big fan of the forward on the point, but Sutter doesn't really have a lot of other options at the moment for powerplay quarterbacks. Who does he put out there? Doetzel is already getting double-shifted on the PK and even strength at times, Mahura is barely WHL ready, much less ready to QB the powerplay, Charif is injured. Strand is already getting an unusual amount of ice time for a rookie, Grman is doing well to just get dressed for a game, much less work the powerplay. On top of that, Fleury isn't playing anywhere near good enough for Sutter to simply double-shift him all the time on the power play, and if he did, we would just be seeing twice as much of his indifference.

We are seeing Maxwell out there mostly due to the injury to Charif. I think that they were also counting on Dixon to round out into that calming, low-risk defenseman that could chew up a ton of minutes and give them more options (like they had with Underwood) with Doetzel.
Just run the top 4. Medicine Hat is way too fast and quick to move the puck to have guys like Meyer Nell out there trying to play defenseman. I get that you're trying to put your best foot forward offensively in those situations, but it doesn't matter if you're up a man when the other team is putting guys like Cox and Sanford out there against you. That team eats turnovers and bad decisions for breakfast and turns it around so quick guys are getting whiplash watching the puck go the other way. They proved it tonight; that game was not as close as 4-2 indicates. Although Toth put himself badly out of position on the Tigers' second goal, he played a pretty damn good game and was the reason it wasn't a lot uglier than that.

Medicine Hat is that fast and that skilled that yes, you need to be thinking about your end even on the powerplay. The Rebels don't have the talent to butt heads in and skill game with these guys; they need to play sound hockey in every situation. It's really a no-brainer; if Maxwell and Nell were turning this powerplay into a monster unit, you'd accept the defensive mishaps and move on. But they aren't generating anywhere near enough to justify getting blown past in the other direction by clubs as good as the Tigers.

With regards to Dixon, nobody in their right mind thought he would develop into Brandon Underwood just a season after doing everything in his power to get himself sent to the AJHL. I think he's actually done a pretty decent job in his role, which is great, but let's not act like the expectation was ever there that this guy was gonna eat minutes for the club after what he showed last year. That's just ridiculous.

As for Fleury, I remember seeing a video of him talking about how Dumba had taught him a lot after coming back from pro camp, and I made the comment that I hope he forgot EVERY piece of advice that guy taught him. It was supposed to be a joke; now I'm wondering what the hell is going through his head. Bleackley also continues to look like no more than a pretty good WHL-er, and is it just me or has Musil been invisible this month?

[SectionNDeserter]

Just run the top 4.I think they have brought Strand along at just the right pace so far, I don't think he is ready to play 40 minutes a game, and I think that would be a great way to destroy a young defenseman. Putting Doetzel out there is fine, but then you would be complaining about their dead last power play. ;)


Although Toth put himself badly out of position on the Tigers' second goal, he played a pretty damn good game and was the reason it wasn't a lot uglier than that.He has been great so far, CHL goaltender of the week last week! The Rebel forwards started this game backchecking like they were already down two or three goals, which was the biggest reason they lost. A big part of their turnaround this season has been due to a commitment to team defense, they got away from that last night, with the forwards all standing around at their blueline, and in the neutral zone at times, rather than coming back and pursuing the attackers, and clogging up the slot like they have.


With regards to Dixon, nobody in their right mind thought he would develop into Brandon Underwood just a season after doing everything in his power to get himself sent to the AJHL.I believe that was their hope when they brought him in. There are some parallels between the two. Big frames, both sort of lumbering skaters, both are a bit 'over-aggressive' at times. He had a really rough start to his Rebel career, with tons of needless and stupid penalties every game, but he eliminated that and actually played alright down the stretch last season. There really isn't any other realistic reason for the Rebels to have brought him in, unless they were hoping for him to safely chew up some minutes. I don't think that he has worked out so far though, as he seems to get noticeably rattled when they jump his ice time up at all.


and is it just me or has Musil been invisible this month?It is just you. He is extremely noticeable when he is on the ice, powering his way through guys with the puck, battling hard on the boards and generating scoring chances. What you are seeing however, is a decrease in production of late, as teams are taking him a lot more seriously than they used to, and paying a lot more attention to him. He is going to need to adjust his game and learn to work with the smaller amount of room he has to work with out there. One thing that I have noticed with him, is that opposing players have no issue with waterskiing behind him, or dropping their sticks and grabbing on to him with both hands as he goes by, all without ever getting called for it. I am not sure if he has done something to alienate the officials, or if he needs to start flopping around on the ice more to help them, but he should be drawing a lot more penalties than he has been, given the amount of hooking and holding that he endures.

[calcheyup]

Putting Doetzel out there is fine, but then you would be complaining about their dead last power play. ;)
Oh really? Allow me to fill you in on something obviously aren't aware of:

Brooks Maxwell has 1 powerplay point in 23 games. Meyer Nell has 3 in 23 games. So let's cut out this charade right now that this powerplay would plummet to league-worst proportions because they took a guy who has contributed to exactly ONE powerplay goal this year off and replaced him with a capable defender. How could I possibly complain about it being any worse than 1 assist in 23 games as part of the top powerplay unit?!


I believe that was their hope when they brought him in. There are some parallels between the two. Big frames, both sort of lumbering skaters, both are a bit 'over-aggressive' at times. He had a really rough start to his Rebel career, with tons of needless and stupid penalties every game, but he eliminated that and actually played alright down the stretch last season. There really isn't any other realistic reason for the Rebels to have brought him in, unless they were hoping for him to safely chew up some minutes. I don't think that he has worked out so far though, as he seems to get noticeably rattled when they jump his ice time up at all.
"Safely chew up some minutes" /= being Underwood or eating a "ton" of minutes as you previously suggested. Nobody - nobody! - expected him to be capable of filling an Underwood-type role after the season he had last year. The "realistic reason" that he still plays for Red Deer is that 4 defensemen can't play every single shift.

[Newice14]

Sometimes I find it ironic that this is called a "fan" forum. The guys lost one game to one of the best teams in the league and players are severely criticized by some posters. There are some very young players on the team, they are doing very well so far compared to similar aged players on other teams in the league. The coaches obviously look at a different big picture than the one seen by some. SectionN, your posts are always objective and positive, I'll likely get fried for my little contribution!!

[Newice14]

Also, Musil might have looked a little invisible last night, his whole line appeared to have been benched in the third period when you look at the replay??

[calcheyup]

Sometimes I find it ironic that this is called a "fan" forum. The guys lost one game to one of the best teams in the league and players are severely criticized by some posters.
A few things:

1) Being a fan does not mean you only accept and talk about the positive things that are happening. Part of being a true fan is being able to evaluate your team in an objective manner, pom-poms aside. I give guys credit when it's due; I point out when guys play poorly. The obligation as a fan should be to do the same, not to just put a positive spin on things all the time.

2) I'm not criticizing the guys I am because of their performance in a single game. It is based on their performance all season. For example, 1 powerplay point in 23 games is poor performance on the powerplay, especially when it comes with defensive lapses. That's been ongoing all season; what kind of positives do you want me to glean from that? Or should we just not discuss that kind of thing? Saying that it was unrealistic to project Kolton Dixon into steady, reliable, top-4 defenseman that you would have no problem having out their in the last two minutes of a one goal game - the type of player Brandon Underwood was for this club - after the season he had last year is hardly bashing the guy; it's just being grounded in reality. Saying Fleury and Bleackley haven't played up to expectations this year is not only true, but it's not anything that hasn't been mentioned by others on this forum and Brent Sutter himself.

You are obviously welcome to post your opinions in whatever manner you please. If you only want to talk about the good things that are happening with this club, that's your prerogative and I respect that. In my opinion, however, that severely limits discussion. I'm honestly baffled by idea that because we are fans and rooting for this team, that it's taboo to discuss their shortcomings. Only talking about the good might make you feel good, but it's not real discourse. It's just homerism.

[Newice14]

You are correct in all you've said. You can definitely not be accused of "homerism". You are also by far one of the most negative fans on this blog, Prince Albert bloggers excluded. But as you have pointed out, it makes for interesting discussions and hopefully we will all see the Rebels do well this year. They will likely have a tough time against MH again. Brandon and MH play a very similar style and the guys struggle against that. Should be interesting to see them against Calgary, should be a better game than against MH.

[calcheyup]

You are correct in all you've said. You can definitely not be accused of "homerism". You are also by far one of the most negative fans on this blog, Prince Albert bloggers excluded. But as you have pointed out, it makes for interesting discussions and hopefully we will all see the Rebels do well this year. They will likely have a tough time against MH again. Brandon and MH play a very similar style and the guys struggle against that. Should be interesting to see them against Calgary, should be a better game than against MH.
You're entitled to your opinion, and quite frankly it would be refreshing to have more people posting here with regularity than the same one or two guys. I follow the Rebels closely, but I certainly don't "know it all"; I welcome other viewpoints, even if I do disagree with them, and I think the more people that share their input here, the better we are all going to be for it, for the most part.

I guess maybe I frame some of my comments in a more pointed and negative manner then is necessary, but I make no apologies for being willing to talk about the areas where this team is not where it should be. You or others may not like my comments, but you cannot look at them and say that they have no factual basis behind them.

Nor do I think it's fair to act as if I never say anything good about this club, because that's simply not true.

[SectionNDeserter]

Oh really? Allow me to fill you in on something obviously aren't aware of:

Brooks Maxwell has 1 powerplay point in 23 games. Meyer Nell has 3 in 23 games.Putting up points is nice, but the Rebels power play needs a lot of work still, and sometimes just being able to gain the zone and keep it in is a small blessing, something I don't believe Doetzel and Strand would be able to do with regularity. This year's version of the forward quarterbacking the PP is certainly not the worst we have seen from a defensive standpoint.


"Safely chew up some minutes" /= being Underwood or eating a "ton" of minutes as you previously suggested. Nobody - nobody! They tried to replace his role on the team with Boomgaarten, then Bear, and now Dixon. All collossal failures in this regard, but it is pretty easy to spot the physical similarities between those three and Underwood. All three of them I am sure the Rebels were hoping would be that defenseman like Underwood, that wasn't flashy, or overly skilled, but effectively won battles in front of the net, clogged up the passing lanes, punished guys on the wall, and just generally chewed up minutes so that younger guys could get an appropriate amount of ice time, and the top pairings could get a break now and again.

[calcheyup]

Man, you can use whatever rationalizations you want to support your angle on this, but the facts of the situation really not subject to debate. The Rebels have received next to no production (4 points in 23 games) from forwards on the blueline at the expense of their team defensive play. As if Doetzel or Strand couldn't hold a puck in at the blueline. Come on.

"Points are nice"? Understatement of the century. Not giving up shorthanded breakaways once every two games is nice too. It would sure be nice to have one or the other instead of the worst of both worlds.

[SectionNDeserter]

As if Doetzel or Strand couldn't hold a puck in at the blueline. Come on.Strand has a lot of strengths, but his biggest weakness is his ability to receive a pass. He often blocks passes with his feet, and kicks them up to his stick before shooting or passing the puck, so I would think that this would be an obstacle that he will need to get past before he is ready to play on the powerplay. Doetzel could possibly be out there, however he is probably second only to Fleury for blasting the puck into the defender's shins, and having the play go the other way.


Not giving up shorthanded breakaways once every two games is nice too. It would sure be nice to have one or the other instead of the worst of both worlds.I have watched every home and away game this season except the Saskatoon game last weekend, and I have seen two or three shorthanded breakaways all season (and all in games with Med Hat I think), so you could be exaggerating a little with these figures.

If they are going to continue to go with a forward on the point, it would be nice to at least give a few of the other's a shot back there. Maxwell doesn't have a heavy, or accurate shot, so there is very little mystery as to what they are going to do with the puck on the point when they are moving it around up there. Nell has a pretty heavy shot, but he usually gets substantially less power play time than Maxwell does.

[calcheyup]

Well there's one thing we can agree on, something must change. Maxwell and Nell getting PP minutes on the blueline and producing four points in 23 games at the expense of the defensive play isn't cutting it. It's not working.

[Newice14]

Giving Nell PP time given the fact that he has good hands and a hard shot, makes sense for his development. He is just 17 as opposed to Maxwell who won't be here next year. Strand has been doing great this year and will be seen in a number of roles come next season. He is also just 17.With Musil and Pawlenchuk also only 17 years old and already being key players , it seems like quite a promising core group who will all be 18 next year and hopefully a little bigger and tougher.Lots of fans are complaining about lack of toughness on their teams, these young guys don't seem to be scared to drop the gloves, they appear to be following the lead of Polei in that department , who is clearly in a league of his own! Dixon on the other hand, should perhaps refrain from fighting..hasn't been working out well as of late.

[SectionNDeserter]

Great effort last night! Much like their last victory against them, the more they hit them, the more tentative the Tigers became. Wasn't sure what we were going to be watching, when they scored 25 seconds in, and there wasn't a Rebel forward within 10-15 feet of any attacker on the ice. Less than a minute later, Bleackley absolutely crushes Quennville, then drops the gloves with Penner, handling himself quite well. This completely changed the entire game. The Rebels carried most of the play and all of the physical play for the next 39 minutes or so from that point on.

Musil, Bleackely and especially Polei powering past Schultz and Quennville like they weren't even there, for the game winner, were particularly impressive last night.

On the Tigers' side, Langhamer was sharp as always, and a regular WHL goaltender would have given up two or three more goals than he did, and I was also impressed with Bradley, who probably had to put his skates back on after that big hit from Musil, but bounced back to snipe the goal that tied the game at 2.

[calcheyup]

Too bad I had to work. Sounds like the fellas bounced back admirably and got a big W. The best part about this is the second line responding to Sutter. Could not be more impressed with handing Medicine Hat another loss after the way the Tigers handled them with ease on Tuesday.

EDIT: For me, it doesn't get much more satisfying than thumping Calgary. Impressive 4 points this weekend.

[Moonergroupie]

Really good effort again tonight. I criticized Polei at the start of the season and now need to give credit where credit is due. He was a stud tonight. Taking the body, scoring goals, and taking on big Kanzig in a fight. Even though he gives up 5 inches and 30 lbs he held his own. Can definitely call the fight a draw. Amazing to watch how many times the Hitmen coughed up the puck when Polei was in on the forecheck as they were afraid to get hit. Feser and Johnson really going tonight. I thought Fluery really struggled the first 10 minutes of the game, but then settled in nicely. Really have to wonder where the offensive side of his game has gone this season. Maybe just giving some of it up to be more defensively responsible. If Bleackley could just get going on a regular basis, this team would be a force. Not that Bleacks was bad tonight, but still isn't playing as good as last year. The points, stealing pucks on the back check, and dominating the game aren't there like last year. I really thought going in that he had a chance to be top 10 in whl scoring this year. Hasn't taken the progressive step over last year yet. Let's hope it is still coming. Like was stated earlier, if Fluery and Bleacks continue to play like they have been, the Rebels will definitely have them back for next season as they have done nothing this season yet to prove they are nhl ready.

[calcheyup]

Didn't see the game, but wow Strand and Cote must have had rough nights. -9 combined!

[Newice14]

They did have a rough game. Not their best effort.Great rivalry between these two teams.

[calcheyup]

Well, the way those guys have played this year, they earned a bad one, even if it was a stinker like that. Certainly the third game in three nights played a factor. Get ready to take 2 out of 3 from te Tigers, hopefully, and finish with the 6 out of 10 points we all said we would be happy with in this stretch.

[Newice14]

Cote still played better than Fleury, i am not the biggest fan of +/- stats. As positive as I try to be, I am still waiting for Fleury to turn things around, calgary's first round D-man Sanheim was on fire...Rebels need that kind of input from their first rounders.

[calcheyup]

Cote still played better than Fleury, i am not the biggest fan of +/- stats. As positive as I try to be, I am still waiting for Fleury to turn things around, calgary's first round D-man Sanheim was on fire...Rebels need that kind of input from their first rounders.

I agree that it is not the be all and end all, but there is no way to spin -5 and -4. You didn't play a good game out there if you rack up those numbers in a single game.

[Moonergroupie]

I think one of the guys behind me in the stands summed it up best. The fireworks were supposed to be after the game, not during it. Wow, 9 or 10 fights and I loved seeing the fact that this Rebels team would not be pushed around by a team that was frustrated and trying to intimidate. I think my favourite play in the game was with approx 2 minutes left, Bleacks is in the corner with a Broncos defensemen and the d man is taking liberties. Bleacks skates away from it as the puck is shot around, only to have it dumped into the same corner. You could see it coming as Bleacks holds up to let the same D man get the puck and then Bleacks crushes him with a shoulder to the chest. Loved it.
You can just see it on the ice. The players on this Rebels team really like one another. We haven't seen it for a couple years but it is definitely there this year. The tapping guys on the back after the fights, the tapping sticks on the ice after the guy gets out of the penalty box after a fight, the standing up for one another, and the funky handshakes after the wins. Fantastic.
Strand and Cote solid again tonight. Toth is quietly making the goaltending concerns go away. Grman had a couple give always early but then settled in and played really well. Held his own in the fight. Was absolutely priceless seeing him and Polei sitting in the penalty box together after their fights. Polei grinning from ear to ear after the Grman fight.
I can't remember when it was this much fun to go to the games. There has been a turnover in the crowd and the replacements are loud and proud. Makes it a lot of fun to take the kids.

[CanesCrazy]

about Fafard and Burke? I know Burke hasn't played but one game this season but what's the deal with Fafard?

We've been told both players are injured so hopefully we won't have to wait too long to see what they can bring us.

[SectionNDeserter]

Fafard;

Pros: Likes to hit, will fight anyone, has good work ethic, and seems like an overall good team guy. Played defense for his first three WHL seasons, so can fill in back there as required, as well as play the grinder role.

Cons: Not really any natural scoring or playmaking ability, not the greatest skater, and occupies an overage spot.

Burke;

Pros: Decent skater, pretty good hands, hard worker. Wears the exact same suit as Ron Burgundy.

Cons: Small/gets muscled off the puck easily.

[calcheyup]

Someone needs to clue me in on why Lethbridge would trade a near point per game player and a pick for Fafard and Burke. Because I'm not seeing any way that makes sense for the Canes.

[Newice14]

I would like to know as well! Only thing that makes sense here is that Sheen wanted a trade?

[Newice14]

Based on the near point per game record, I assume Sheen will not replace Fafard on the fourth line but will play onone of the other lines. Who will move down, Sandhu? Hopefully chemistry will stay in tact. Or will there be more trades?

[Moonergroupie]

I am guessing they were looking for a tough guy that could come in and protect their young core. Burke is somewhat of a wild card, but has impressed in the past and I thought looked really good in the games he got into last year for the Rebels. In the long run, it is probably a good trade for both Rebels players as it sounds like Fafard will be returned to his defence position and will probably see his ice time increase substantially. Burke would have had trouble cracking this Rebels lineup when he got healthy so this will give him a chance to play and develop.

While Sheen is close to a point a game player this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see his point production drop off a bit in a reduced role with the Rebels due to the depth that this Rebels team has. I will certainly be happy if it doesn't though and maybe he can be a key to making the Rebels power play click on a more consistent basis.

With Fafard playing only 5 minutes a game, you do have to wonder whose ice time is going to be cut back to give Sheen the minutes.

[calcheyup]

Based on the near point per game record, I assume Sheen will not replace Fafard on the fourth line but will play onone of the other lines. Who will move down, Sandhu? Hopefully chemistry will stay in tact. Or will there be more trades?
Judging by the way Sutter has forced Sandhu into favorable positions (playin with Bleackley, powerplay time) I'm not sure he's going to drop him down. With Sandhu it's obvious that while he has some touch around the net, he's not going to be creating his own offense. Sutter clearly wants him taking advantage of opportunities others make for him. I don't know much about Sheen as a player, but his stats would suggest he's a bit of a playmaker, so we will have to see where he fits in.

[SectionNDeserter]

Obviously the key to the deal isn't Fafard, he only went the other way because the Rebels needed to free up an overage spot to add Sheen. Burke is only 17, and has some potential, he is the real key to this whole deal for Lethbridge.

[calcheyup]

Obviously the key to the deal isn't Fafard, he only went the other way because the Rebels needed to free up an overage spot to add Sheen. Burke is only 17, and has some potential, he is the real key to this whole deal for Lethbridge.
Maybe, but they take a huge downgrade in Fafard and trade a pick for a guy who can't crack the lineup as a 17 year old. I just figured a guy with 23 points in 29 games or whatever it is would have netted a more significant return.

[Moonergroupie]

The pick has conditions attached to it regarding Burke. Not 100% sure what they are but I would guess they would involve Burke becoming a regular on the team.

[Newice14]

Although Sheen did great, the team chemistry was completely messed up! Hopefully they'll get it functioning again.

[Newice14]

The pick has conditions attached to it regarding Burke. Not 100% sure what they are but I would guess they would involve Burke becoming a regular on the team.
Greg Drinnan's blog mentioned something about Burke putting up a certain amount of points in order for the pick to become effective?

[SectionNDeserter]

Tough outing for the goaltenders and defense for sure. I think that having to start EVERY game may be starting to mentally take it's toll on rookie goaltender Toth, and Sutter may soon have to pull the plug on Burman and his 4+GAA and near .800 save percentage, and bring in a goaltender that can give Toth a break every so often, without losing every single game that they start in.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what exactly happened on Calgary's 5th goal? three forwards and a defenseman came back to try to prevent the goal, and when it was scored, I looked back to see what defenseman got caught, and there wasn't one, they literally had four skaters on the ice to the Hitmen's five, and they weren't on a powerplay.

[Moonergroupie]

I wasn't at the game last night and just caught parts of it on the radio. Sutter certainly did not want to throw his goaltenders under the bus but how many of the 9 were goals that should have been stopped? It seemed like Sheen was playing with Sandhu and Bleackley. Did Pawlenchuk get moved to the fourth line?

[SectionNDeserter]

Did Pawlenchuk get moved to the fourth line?Yes, he was centering the 4th line.

[Newice14]

Yes, he was centering the 4th line.

Pawlenchuk did not have his usual good game against Calgary. I expected him to bring more to the table playing 4th line, which he didn't. My guess is Sandhu playing there against Moose Jaw. Don't think the Polei/Feser/Musil line will be touched and Sheen will likely remain in the spot he was used as well. So a juggle between Pawlenchuk and Sandhu moving down? Whatever happens, it should make all lines stronger when they regain their chemistry.

[calcheyup]

So has Sandhu been put on the Maxwell/Kopeck line? If so, where does that leave Johnson playing? There's no way Sutter has the team's leading scorer playing 4th line minutes. Haven't seen a game since the trade, so I'm wondering how this is all playing out as it relates to Johnson and Sandhu, as the way I understand it Pawlenchuk is back with Bleackley and Sheen.

Also, what's the news on Strand? At a glance, I don't see anything in the Advocate or the WHL injury report about him, but I see he hasn't played the last couple games. Pretty sketchy back end when you're dressing Dixon, Mahura, and Grman, but obviously they've played well enough to pick up a couple W's, albeit against weaker opponents.

[Newice14]

Sandhu has been playing 4th line the past 2 games, lines are shuffled often with Musil being injured. Not sure what the nature of the injury is , but he left halfway through the game again. Same thing happened in Lethbridge? Strand is back and appears to be ok. I thought Dixon and Grman played very well the last few games , Grman throwing big hits and Dixon with some really hard shots on the net. I hope Cote gets a bunch of invites to NHL camps , he has been outstanding. The young D's can only learn from him, his patience and poise with the puck is great to watch.The whole team played very well last night.

[SectionNDeserter]

and Dixon with some really hard shots on the netHe is putting about 10% of them anywhere near the net, however it is still nice to see a Rebel defenseman shooting that much, and even more so, one-timing the puck. Grman throws so many big hits now that opposing players are starting to ease up when coming down on him. Only a few have been of the bone-crushing variety, but they are seperating them from the puck nonetheless.

[Red celtic]

Red Deer is starting to load up for next year with another big trade today here is the trade.
http://www.reddeerrebels.com/article/rebels-acquire-nogier-adamson

[SectionNDeserter]

A decent trade that adds experience, as well as boosts depth in the '96 group that they were looking for. The 1st round pick is next year's, which if everything goes as planned, should be near the tail end of the 1st round. With Nogier, the Rebels add Memorial Cup experience, as well as some playoff experience, a second shutdown defenseman, and a player that could end up playing two more seasons for them if they don't move him after next year to get back some picks.

Don't really know a great deal about Adamson, but from his stats alone, I am not really clear where he will fit in the Rebel lineup.

The trade leaves the Rebels with ten defensemen, so one would have to think that there is another deal in the works to move one or two of them.

[Moonergroupie]

Seems like a lot to give up for a -27 defensive defensemen and a utility forward that has similar stats to Chorney, who couldn't find a spot on this team. Red Deer gave up more than Kelowna did for Morrissey. I think we maybe could have gotten more for that set of assets. An excellent trade with Lethbridge. Not so sure with this one.

[SectionNDeserter]

Seems like a lot to give up for a -27 defensive defensemen and a utility forward that has similar stats to Chorney,Not really. Keep in mind, the 1st rounder is in next year's draft, if all goes to plan, will be almost in the second round. I would be concerned about Nogier's +/-, if he weren't playing for Saskatoon, but he is a big NHL drafted defenseman with both playoff and Memorial Cup experience. I would put him on about par with Doetzel from a skill standpoint.


Red Deer gave up more than Kelowna did for Morrissey.Nogier is 18, and is the sort of player that could possibly play as an overage player in this league. Morrisey is 19 and is only in the WHL for a few more months.

Like you, I don't really see where Adamson fits into the team at the moment, though I suspect we are going to see one of the 19 year old forwards moved at the deadline, to get that age group to a more manageable number.

[Moonergroupie]

I don't know, you read what the Saskatoon fans have to say about the trade and they are all pretty happy with it. A lot stating that Nogier is not an elite level defenseman and were sick of watching him cough up the puck all the time. I can't see him taking spots away from Fluery or Doetzel and with the way Cote and Strand have been playing together, not sure you want to break up that pairing. So does Nogier slide into the number 5 spot with Mahura or Dixon? It still seems a lot to give up for a number 5 defenseman to me. I guess you are right for next year though with the loss of Cote and potentially Fluery, he will be able to move up to top 4 minutes and play a larger role on the memorial cup team.

[SectionNDeserter]

I don't know, you read what the Saskatoon fans have to say about the trade and they are all pretty happy with it. A lot stating that Nogier is not an elite level defenseman and were sick of watching him cough up the puck all the time.You may not have noticed this before, but fans of a team quite often discredit a player after they have been traded away from their team. It would hold a lot more water with me, if there was even a single post about him coughing up the puck all the time, prior to him being traded...

I personally don't consider him to be an 'elite' defenseman--the Rebels would have to give up far more than they did for an 18 year old elite defenseman. He is however another big, strong, shut-down defenseman that isn't going to be counted on to put up a lot of points, and hopefully further cut into the other team's possession time in the Rebel end.


I can't see him taking spots away from Fluery or Doetzel and with the way Cote and Strand have been playing together, not sure you want to break up that pairing. So does Nogier slide into the number 5 spot with Mahura or Dixon?Or maybe the Rebels have had communications with Carolina, and it has been made clear that Fleury will be starting his NHL career next season, and they are considering moving him at the deadline for some big assets for the Memorial cup?

Or maybe they are going to gamble on Fleury coming back next season, and looking forward to next season are thinking of moving Cote to a contending team at the deadline this season?

Either way, this has to be a tough move for 19 year old defensemen like Dixon and Charif to swallow.

[Moonergroupie]

With the trades that Red Deer has made so far and I am sure they aren't done yet, wouldn't you consider Red Deer to be a contending team this year? They have been on the cusp of the top contenders all year and with a couple key additions should be right there with the Tigers and Wheat Kings of the world. Still need to address the back up goalie issue, but should now have one of the best Defense in the league and four lines that can be rolled and score. A bit more consistency from Fluery and Bleackley and I don't think this team is that far away.

[SectionNDeserter]

With the trades that Red Deer has made so far and I am sure they aren't done yet, wouldn't you consider Red Deer to be a contending team this year? They have been on the cusp of the top contenders all year and with a couple key additions should be right there with the Tigers and Wheat Kings of the world.I think they would have a chance in a best of seven with Medicine Hat, but not Brandon, Kelowna or Everett.


Still need to address the back up goalie issueIf this isn't resolved before the trade deadline, I think it is a telling sign of how serious this team is about making a run this season. Toth will be totally burned out by the time the playoffs roll around if he continues to start in 95% of their games, and with the race as tight as it is, the team can't afford to continue to lose every game that Burman starts in.

[Moonergroupie]

Apparently not quite up to the big boys standard yet. Don't know if I buy the, they started the Christmas break early quote. I mean you have the top team in the league coming into your building as the last game before the Christmas break and you are looking ahead to the time off. Don't buy it. Obviously there is a reason Kelowna is the top team in the league right now. They have the ability to make other teams look bad with the way that they play. Marginal goaltending again and this team shows their fragile side (just like in the past) and quits. Wyatt Johnson was the Wyatt Johnson of last year tonight again. Had glorious scoring chance after glorious scoring chance and either fumbles the puck or misses the net. A few guys in the room that need to take a look in the mirror and get going again or with the recent aqusitions will find themselves on the fourth line or sitting in the press box when Musil gets back healthy.

The new guys looked good tonight. I have a tough time believing that the Adamson that played tonight is the Adamson we will see every night as we would have known more about him, but here's hoping.

Really have to wonder how Moller gives two of the three stars to a team that gets beat 6-3.

[calcheyup]

Within the conference, I think Brandon and Medicine Hat would very likely beat the Rebels in a series. I think Calgary would be a handful. I haven't seen edmonton or Regina this year so I can't comment on them. As it stands I see RD on the second rung of teams within the EC, which I thought preseason was probably a best case scenario based on what we knew then.

With regards to the goaltending, yes a backup is needed, but let's not act like Toth has transformed that area into a position of strength. He has been serviceable, but I don't think he's good enough right now to consider the Rebels to be contenders. That's not a slam on Toth at all; I actually think his play has been a very pleasant surprise this year, and he certainly looks like a legit WHL caliber goalie, just not a great one.

[Moonergroupie]

With the Draisaitl rumours floating around, may be an opportunity for Red Deer to pick up a European from Kelowna or PA for cheap.

[SectionNDeserter]

Asking price for Draisaitl will be far too high for the Rebels to go for this year, and the Rockets don't really have an import that would really be much of an upgrade on what the Rebels currently have.

[SectionNDeserter]

Though now that I look at it more, the Rebels may be looking to trim down their '95s this year, and the only import on Kelowna that they could actually trade, is a '96. So maybe...

[patsdude114]

I don't see the need for the rebels to worry about the euro situation.... Teams don't win games cause of their euros as there are very few NHL 1st round euros in the WHL.

I think the Rebels would be better off goin after a top undrafted 19yr old who will be considered an elite 20yr old next season. I'm not saying either guy is on the market but would Hunt or Gay be any interest to the Rebels for next season?

I personally think next year is a bad year for the WHL to host the memorial cup just due to the very weak '96 group league wide. Memorial Cup teams are normally very strong in the 19yr old age group and yes I think the Rebels will have one of the stronger groups in our league but is it going to be stronger then the OHL or QMJHL 19yr old group. Let me just comment alittle further with the '96 group in the league yes we have elite players in that group but there is a huge drop off once you pass thru the elite guys.

I highly doubt Carolina is going to keep Fleury in the NHL next season when they know their elite prospect has a free ticket into the Memorial Cup. NHL teams value that type of exposure and he will be on Team Canada next season as well, from a development stand point it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[SectionNDeserter]

I don't see the need for the rebels to worry about the euro situation.... Teams don't win games cause of their euros as there are very few NHL 1st round euros in the WHL.*cough* Martin Erat *cough*


I think the Rebels would be better off goin after a top undrafted 19yr old who will be considered an elite 20yr old next season. I'm not saying either guy is on the market but would Hunt or Gay be any interest to the RebelsMy preference would be to pick up a player similar to that, that might be still playing for a pro contract, rather than just putting in time in the WHL until they can play pro...


I highly doubt Carolina is going to keep Fleury in the NHL next season when they know their elite prospect has a free ticket into the Memorial Cup.If they think he can take a semi-regular shift in the NHL without being a liability, while costing them a fraction of what they are paying their veterans, they won't hesitate for a second to keep him up in the show. I think you may be putting a little too much stock in a junior tournament vs. practicing with and competing against professional MEN in a professional league.

That being said, if Fleury plays like he has so far this season in his NHL training camp next season, he will easily be one of the first cuts that they make, and probably won't even miss much of his WHL training camp...

[patsdude114]

*cough* Martin Erat *cough*

Erat types are few and far between now a days for euros in the CHL, its been a long time since there has been a true dominate euro in the WHL. Scherbak is a great player but he still isn't a player like Erat types the CHL used to get. Euro's know they get just as much exposure back in Europe now then they used to 10-15years ago, very seldom does the CHL get the true elite type guys anymore.




My preference would be to pick up a player similar to that, that might be still playing for a pro contract, rather than just putting in time in the WHL until they can play pro...

If they think he can take a semi-regular shift in the NHL without being a liability, while costing them a fraction of what they are paying their veterans, they won't hesitate for a second to keep him up in the show. I think you may be putting a little too much stock in a junior tournament vs. practicing with and competing against professional MEN in a professional league.

NHL teams value the Memorial Cup and a chance at a long playoff run very highly in a players development & don't kid yourself for a second that they don't. Bleackley has a much better chance at playing in the NHL as a 19yr old then Fleury does just cause he is a forward vs a defenseman as Dmen take much longer to groom then a forward does. But either way the Rebels will get both players back next season, Sutter has a lot of pull just like KM in BRN and Hamilton in KEL, these are well respected junior hockey minds in the pro ranks.

[calcheyup]

Another move. Rebels acquire D Colton Bobyk and a 4th from the Chiefs for Charif, a 2nd, and 2016 6th.

Don't know anything about Bobyk, but I hope he's able to step in and make an impact for another high round pick going the opposite way. Charif, despite the way he played to start the year, was never going to be an overager on this team next year. The draft pick is the biggest loss here, so hopefully Bobyk can step in and make a difference when he gets healthy. He hasn't played since early November, anyone know when we can expect to see him?

[Red celtic]

Another move. Rebels acquire D Colton Bobyk and a 4th from the Chiefs for Charif, a 2nd, and 2016 6th.

Don't know anything about Bobyk, but I hope he's able to step in and make an impact for another high round pick going the opposite way. Charif, despite the way he played to start the year, was never going to be an overager on this team next year. The draft pick is the biggest loss here, so hopefully Bobyk can step in and make a difference when he gets healthy. He hasn't played since early November, anyone know when we can expect to see him?
I think that he is ready to play on the radio last night Sutter said that he is on his way back but that he was having to drive through a winter storm. Would not expect him in the lineup this afternoon.

[patsdude114]

Colton Bobyk is worth every penny that the Rebels payed to get him he will be a big part of the Rebels blueline next season and if by chance Fleury sticks with the NHL (which I highly doubt) Bobyk will soften the blow a lot.

[EastDivFan]

Colton Bobyk is worth every penny that the Rebels payed to get him he will be a big part of the Rebels blueline next season and if by chance Fleury sticks with the NHL (which I highly doubt) Bobyk will soften the blow a lot.

+1

[SectionNDeserter]

Even without Fleury, they are going into next season with a big, solid top four in Doetzel, Nogier, Bobyk and Strand. They are still carrying ten blueliners at the moment, and I suspect there will be some more moves before the deadline.

[Moonergroupie]

Interesting game tonight. Knew we were in trouble with goaltending tonight on Kootney's first shot. Simply a skate over the blue line and dump it on net shot and Toth made it look like a very tough save.
Johnson had the first two scoring chances of the game and missed the net on both. The second one was a wide open net.
Total domination by the Rebels followed by a half scoring chance by Kootney that ends up in the back of the net.
Both the Bleackley line and Fluery were benched for portions of the game. While I am sure it was sending a message, it didn't do much good to help the team as it resulted in Polei and his line being double shifted. Polei was awful again tonight. Lost every battle along the boards, never threw a hit, and generated nothing. He needs to spend some time watching from the press box. de Wit sat tonight and from what I have seen lately, he gives the Rebels much more than what Polei has.

[SectionNDeserter]

I knew they were in trouble when the officials spotted the ICE the one goal lead on the breakaway goal where they were 6-8 feet offside. From there the difference was all in goaltending performance. Toth had a rough outing, and Hoflin had a career game.

[Moonergroupie]

Interesting Day of trades today. Red Deer has to have the deepest forward group in the league right now. Will have two legitimate guys that should be playing every game in this league sitting in the press box now. I can't imagine Martin is to happy. Getting regular time in the league and then getting traded and sent down. Don't know if he is any upgrade to what we have now, unless Toth continues to give performances like he did against Kootney. Have to think there is still a trade coming for an impact goaltender yet. Although it might not be till next year.

Making the battle for the twenty year old spots in Red Deer for next year that much tougher.

I guess we better enjoy next year as the year after, we will get to feel what the Lethbridge and Saskatoon fans have been feeling the last couple years. The future for 2-3 years from now (Burke, McCarty, and Leschyshyn) are gone. I would imagine Mahura and de Wit are getting dangled right now. Unless plan is to keep them for the blockbuster trade next year.

[Newice14]

Wonder if this it it for now or more coming before the 10th?

[D cherry]

Did Red Deer get the best of Regina today !! I hope Regina got a kiss .

[calcheyup]

I don't know if I would call a couple 17-year-olds who couldn't get on the ice even before all the moves the "future."

[Moonergroupie]

I was a little surprised to see as high a draft picks come Red Deer's way as well. Leschyshyn does look like he has the potential to become a star in this league though. Tough to Keep up with Brandon when they get a guy like Gow for a 5th round pick. Mind you it does cost them one of their current 20 year olds as well.

[JMoney1988]

I'm quite surprised you guys sent down Trevor Martin immediately after acquiring him, he is actually not a bad goalie as his record says just a poor team in front of him. Would he be an upgrade to Taz Burman at all? Let me know what you think.

[Moonergroupie]

calcheyup
"I don't know if I would call a couple 17-year-olds who couldn't get on the ice even before all the moves the "future.""

That is all Red Deer has besides de Wit and Mahura. Mahura hasn't played much either. So although it might not have been a good future, it was still the future.

[Red celtic]

If the Rebs sign Austin Pratt or Grant Mismash they won't be missing Jake Leschyshyn. Both American kids who were projected to be first round picks in last years draft but dropped because they wouldn't commit to the Dub. They both came to the spring rookie camp and were the best players there Pratt is more likely to sign than Mismash but they are both in play. Maybe Sutter knew something before he made the trade.

[calcheyup]

calcheyup
"I don't know if I would call a couple 17-year-olds who couldn't get on the ice even before all the moves the "future.""

That is all Red Deer has besides de Wit and Mahura. Mahura hasn't played much either. So although it might not have been a good future, it was still the future.
You were implying that the Rebels are going to have years of being terrible because they traded guys like McCarty and Burke. Those guys aren't going to be the difference between Red Deer having a good team 2 years from now or not. Just because they are young(ish) doesn't mean anything if they can't even get on the ice for the next two years. Guys who can't crack a WHL lineup until they are 19 probably aren't going to be big impact guys that you are going to really miss.

Bottom line, those guys are 17 and couldnt take ice time from
De Wit, Meyer Nell, or even Devan Fafard for that matter. They were not integral parts of this teams future.

As for this trade, the Rebels get 1.5 years of a point per game forward, and picks coming back including a 1st. For the way these deals usually go, it's pretty awesome to see that come back when you give up a piece of your future.

[SectionNDeserter]

I guess we better enjoy next year as the year after, we will get to feel what the Lethbridge and Saskatoon fans have been feeling the last couple years.Every indication I have seen points towards Austin Pratt joining the Rebels next season. If he does, this is the same as the Rebels having a free additional first rounder last season, in addition to Leschyshyn. What I saw at the training camps, was that Pratt was miles ahead in all areas of his development than Leschyshyn. I think their forward group will be ok for a few seasons, but the blueline and possibly the goaltending will likely be big question marks after next season.


The future for 2-3 years from now (Burke, McCarty, and Leschyshyn) are gone.I didn't see Burke or McCarty as key building blocks of this team moving forward, and from what I saw from Leschyshyn in two training camps, I didn't really see him making the team as a 16 year old next season.


I would imagine Mahura and de Wit are getting dangled right now. Unless plan is to keep them for the blockbuster trade next year.Mahura and deWit are 'A' prospects of the Rebels, and I can almost guarantee you that their contract with the Rebels has a stipulation that prevents them from being traded to another WHL team until they have completed high school (as it should).

[Moonergroupie]

I also had Leschyshyn in there who I was banking on being an intregral part of this teams Future. Burke didn't get a fair shake as he was hurt the entire year. Lethbridge obviously must think he has some potential as they traded one of their best players for him. While McCarty and Burke might not be lighting up the league in 2 years, they will probably be role players somewhere in the league. I seen Leschyshyn as taking on the Bleakley role in the next couple of years and now I don't see where that is going to come from. Maybe de Wit, but I can't see how he makes it through next years trade deadline if he happens to make it through this one.

[sbtatter]

I was a little surprised to see as high a draft picks come Red Deer's way as well. Leschyshyn does look like he has the potential to become a star in this league though. Tough to Keep up with Brandon when they get a guy like Gow for a 5th round pick. Mind you it does cost them one of their current 20 year olds as well.

Bdn only had two overagers on the roster before today, peter quenneville and Eric Roy

[SectionNDeserter]

I seen Leschyshyn as taking on the Bleakley role in the next couple of years and now I don't see where that is going to come from. Maybe de Wit, but I can't see how he makes it through next years trade deadline if he happens to make it through this one.Like I said in my previous message, I don't think they even can trade de Witt, or Mahura, or possibly even Burman for that matter, until they are 18, if they don't want to be traded. After next season, they could have a solid core of players in Musil, Strand, Mahura, Pawlenchuk, de Wit, Sandhu, and hopefully Austin Pratt (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=269305).

They get their crack at the Memorial Cup, then they try to rebuild their roster as best they can. It is going to cost them a lot of picks and prospects to build this competitive roster in a relatively short time, and then will have to deal some of the '96 players in the off-season after the tournament to get back some picks, prospects and depth players. Teams hope that they can accomplish all of this without taking too far of a step back after the tournament, but the reality is that most of them do.

I am not totally clear on what it is that you have an issue with. Did you want them to go into the tournament against the best that three Major Junior leagues have to offer, with just the players, picks and prospects that they have already, and get beat 10-0 every game?

[EastDivFan]

Like I said in my previous message, I don't think they even can trade de Witt, or Mahura, or possibly even Burman for that matter, until they are 18, if they don't want to be traded.

You don't think Mahura's family can see the writing on the wall? Mahura's dad is a scout with PA. He's probably been in Sutter's office before Christmas with the ice time his kid's been getting. I bet the family would jump to be moved. Or else his major junior career is basically going to start at eighteen.

[BDKrebel]

Is the 20 year old situation ever complicated for the Rebels next year. You have to believe that Doetzel and Gay are on the team next year. That leaves Johnson, Feser and Kopeck to fill the last spot. Their is going to be at least 2 of them that are going to be traded. Regina must have thought they couldn't compete with Medicine Hat and Brandon because they traded their top 3 forwards and their best defensemen. They've been one of the hottest teams in the league lately. Where is Draisaitl going to end up. Medicine Hat, Brandon and Kelowna have already given up a good chunk of their future so the price tag may be too steep for them. If one of those teams do pick him up they are going to be absolutely aweful for the next 3 to 4 years. He may just end up playing hockey back in Germany.

[SectionNDeserter]

I bet the family would jump to be moved. Or else his major junior career is basically going to start at eighteen.As of right now, there is eight returning defensemen for next season. The top 5 should be Fleury, Nogier, Doetzel, Bobyk, and Strand. Mahura has played 24 more games than Schmoorkoff, and also has a clear edge over Grman on the depth chart (if Grman even returns next season).

Their only defensive prospect that I have seen at the various training camps, that looks even remotely ready for the WHL is Max Salpeter, and I don't believe that he has anywhere near as much upside as Mahura. So barring the acquisition of another defenseman between now and next season, I would have to say that Mahura has a pretty good chance of being a regular in the lineup next season.

[sbtatter]

Is the 20 year old situation ever complicated for the Rebels next year. You have to believe that Doetzel and Gay are on the team next year. That leaves Johnson, Feser and Kopeck to fill the last spot. Their is going to be at least 2 of them that are going to be traded. Regina must have thought they couldn't compete with Medicine Hat and Brandon because they traded their top 3 forwards and their best defensemen. They've been one of the hottest teams in the league lately. Where is Draisaitl going to end up. Medicine Hat, Brandon and Kelowna have already given up a good chunk of their future so the price tag may be too steep for them. If one of those teams do pick him up they are going to be absolutely aweful for the next 3 to 4 years. He may just end up playing hockey back in Germany.

Bdn haven't given up any future. A 5th round for how, and a guy sitting out for klimchuck. Have a nice crop of 17's, Shmyr, taraschuk, matsuba, 16's are Patrick, kaspick,clague, mccorister, Lewis, and the # 1 bantam pick as a 15 year old, Mattheos. Don't forget that next season will still have mcgauley, hawryluk, quenneville, provorov, pilon, waltz, erkamps, papirny, 2015\16 is the big year for the wheaties. I just hope red deer don't get point to make it a real battle with Bdn next season!

[hockey4]

Good to be back, fresh off 4 years in Ontario. Trying to reacquaint myself to the hockey team the past 5 months, feels great!

My thoughts so far.... Awesome. Added pieces in nogier adamson bobyk and gay, and really havent given up a ton doing it. By my count, using alan caldwell, still have almost all picks plus extras, which is great to add a piece next year. Sure there is the 19 year old situation, but they still can draft a euro next year i believe, plus that american boy that SectionN mentioned, so there doesnt look to be many holes. Maybe a forward or two, with some very very solid returnees. Back end looks somewhat complete as well.

Regarding the future, none of the young roster players have been dealt, atleast the ones who were playing. Outside of leschysyn, no other prospects have been dealt, unless i missed one. Also, the team has some good balance of 16-17-18-19 year olds, so thats helpful i think going forward.

I doubt we will be a contender in 2017, but at this point i think the team has done a solid job of avoiding the perverbial cliff post-memcup. Good enough to continue forward without blowing it all up. I was away when saskatoon went through it, but from my recollection from reading, they had a ton of things to accomplish to be competitive, whereas this team seems to already be well past that.

[calcheyup]

Is the 20 year old situation ever complicated for the Rebels next year.
I'm not really sure that it is. Barring a precipitous drop in play in the next couple months from Johnson or Gay, I think it's pretty clearly going to be those two and Doetzel occupying the overage spots next year.

Really not too surprising that Sutter would make a move like this; both Feser and Kopeck are solid enough players, but I don't think you can to justify an overage spot for them on a team trying to compete for the Memorial Cup next year. The assumption would have to be that Sutter is going to try to move them at some point before next season.


so there doesnt look to be many holes. Maybe a forward or two, with some very very solid returnees. Back end looks somewhat complete as well.
I'm definitely not sold that Toth is the guy to win a Memorial Cup with. He's definitely done well to do solidify and bring some consistency to the position so far, but among the league's elite, he is not. Granted, there's still over a year between now and then, but as of right now I still have goaltending as a question mark.

[calcheyup]

You don't think Mahura's family can see the writing on the wall? Mahura's dad is a scout with PA. He's probably been in Sutter's office before Christmas with the ice time his kid's been getting.
Uh... what are you talking about?

Mahura has played 24 games this year for a competitive WHL team, and until the acquisition of Nogier and Bobyk, had been getting fairly regular third pair minutes in the games he's been in. That's pretty good burn for a 16-year-old defenseman. What would his pop be complaining about, that his kid isn't playing top pair minutes? At this point in his development, to give Mahura any more icetime than he's been getting probably would be disastrous for him, not beneficial. Not to mention he's got a good shot at cracking the top 6 and playing regularly next year as a 17.

[SectionNDeserter]

Good to be back, fresh off 4 years in Ontario. Trying to reacquaint myself to the hockey team the past 5 months, feels great!Wow! Wondered where you went... Welcome back!


My thoughts so far.... Awesome. Added pieces in nogier adamson bobyk and gay, and really havent given up a ton doing it.I preferred that they start building the Memorial Cup team this year, but thought the price would be far too high. Pretty good job so far improving a few areas of the team, without giving up a lot of assets that would have impacted the team the next few seasons.


I doubt we will be a contender in 2017, but at this point i think the team has done a solid job of avoiding the perverbial cliff post-memcup.I wouldn't speak too soon, I don't think that Sutter is anywhere near done yet. I think he has the blueline pretty much set, but he is still going to have to unload a lot of picks and some roster players to improve the goaltending and probably wants to add an impact forward yet.


Good enough to continue forward without blowing it all up. I was away when saskatoon went through it, but from my recollection from reading, they had a ton of things to accomplish to be competitive, whereas this team seems to already be well past that.One would hope, but I think they will have their own Memorial Cup hangover, I just hope it isn't as bad as Saskatoon's.

[hockey4]

All valid points SectionN. I feel this team, at this point, is well ahead of where Saskatoon was a year out. This time has to find out which 20 year olds to move out, which gets a return, versus the Blades which i believe made multiple 20 year old movements that season.

When I mentioned 2017, I was referring to post-mem cup. Musil Pawlenchuk Strand, Mahura, Nell, Polei, Bobyk (maybe??), and whomever else i'm missing. Good group for a transition year, when i'm sure we will see 6-7 rookies. Perhaps one or two of these guys will be traded before, but given where the team is right now, if i'm a betting man, there are 2-3 trades left before the cup. Lots of picks, prospects, and players to do it to. Excited!