Regular Season 2014 - the first half

[Wapitikev]

NHL preseason begins next Sunday. So NHL camps could be over by Wednesday or Thursday.

Assuming that Warner and Gardiner and Stewart are back for the weekend, then we'll have 16 forwards (only 15 can play if Lange suits up) and 9 d-men...I'm assuming Josh stays in Winnipeg for now.

By Oct 16th we need to lose a 20yo so we could easily carry 15 forwards until then. Pruden, Montgomery and Williamson are on the bubble right now unless we lose a forward through a trade. Williamson has shown the most improvement since camp, so he will likely stay. Montgomery is a little small. Pruden is a year older and is bigger. A decision here might be put off until Vanstone recovers, though.

Defense is a hard call, since Coghlin kept improving as the preseason developed. It's been a long time since the team has looked this deep at D at this point in the season. Verrall is likely the first casualty, there. Carrying 8 d-men in case of injury or a trade is not unrealistic at this point.

I don't expect that McBride's record will be 0.833 like it was in the preseason but we have a good chance to be over 500 on November 1.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Getting to stay for main camp is great news for Warner and Stewart!

Good news for Ben Verrall as well.

Suspected Josh would stay and Reid would be back.

All the best to Pruden...obviously developing Montgomery and Williamson was the decision.

Looking forward to Friday night.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Vancouver does not play their first pre-season game until Tuesday...their main camp begins on Friday and runs until Monday.

Minnesota camp begins Friday and presumably goes until Sunday...they play their first pre-season game on Monday.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Tonight will be an interesting game.

Last night our pourous defense was better than their really bad defense.

Was the ice that bad or were all the Raiders' skates too dull. Plus the puck wouldn't stay on anyone's stick.

Roach had some bad luck last night...but also bounced back immediately after each incident with good passes and decisions...good to see that the coaches have that kind of confidence in him.

Hope Warner and Stewart are back against the Pats next Saturday, though.

Save% took a hit but St. Nick got the win with some good saves late in the game.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

I think Nick played well . He's in position and making himself big . The same thing his goalie coach did all his career . The defence as. Whole had a strong game considering 3 of our top 4 guys on the back endn are still at camp. Riddle and Roach both look like they Will be good. Also very nice to see Gardiner scoring

[Sttop]

I have been impressed with the progression of some of the young players since last year . zaharachuk , gardiner , guhle , Riddle , Anderlik , and Quinney have impressed me from where they were last year .

[Wapitikev]

I have been impressed with the progression of some of the young players since last year . zaharachuk , gardiner , guhle , Riddle , Anderlik , and Quinney have impressed me from where they were last year .Careful, Stopp...your getting dangerously close to suggesting that the Raiders are developing and properly using the talent of their players...something that most of the usual suspects here deny is even remotely possible.

Heh.

Genarro showed he was improving before his minutes were cut back when the 20yos re-entered the lineup. And, surprising even to myself, I would suggest that Coghlin is playing better hockey this season than I've ever seen him play.

However, Roach looks just as good as a raw rookie and, at 2 years younger, he may have more long-term upside if you develop him, instead.

When (if) Warner and Stewart return, both Coghlin and Roach could both stay, if we decide to carry 8 d-men.

Its still way too early, though. Looking good against Saskatoon and Regina is a long way from looking good against Calgary, Edmonton or even Brandon.

Most of the players you mentioned, as well as Coghlin, put streaks together last season where they showed the level of talent that they are displaying now...lets hope that they can play at this level all season.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

The schedule until November 5th looks kind to the team:

Regina x2
Moose Jaw x3
Saskatoon x4 (2 wins already)
Lethbridge x2
Kooteney x2
Red Deer x1
Edmonton x1
Tri-City x1
Portland x1
Calgary x1

...a huge number of Division match-ups in that list.

While some of those games might look win-able on paper, a winning record now could prove crucial in March. Last season's dismal effort against Moose Jaw cannot be repeated, for instance.

It's not inconceivable that the team could finish over 0.600 with perhaps 22 points in the first 1/4.

The 2nd 1/4 season schedule looks considerably tougher, so here's hoping that the players can progress enough in the 1st 1/4 to meet the challenges that the 2nd 1/4 season will pose.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Hunter Warner did not play tonight in Winnipeg and head coach Mike Yeo hinted in interviews that he will be playing more veterans beginning Saturday so that the team can get off to a better start to the regular season than last year.

That may not bode well for Warner. I hope he gets into the game in Pittsburgh on Thursday. It would be cool if he gets to play against Ruopp (he's on the Penguins pre-season roster)

...after that we would gladly welcome Warner back to PA for the Saturday night game.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

blogs.theprovince.com announced at 2pm this afternoon that McKenzie Stewart was one of three Canuck prospects returned to junior at the end of main camp.

The article goes on to say that only 2 19yos remain on the the Canuck's pre-season roster (Horvat and Subban). The rest are expected to either make the squad or play in the AHL this season.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Hunter Warner did not play tonight in Winnipeg and head coach Mike Yeo hinted in interviews that he will be playing more veterans beginning Saturday so that the team can get off to a better start to the regular season than last year.

That may not bode well for Warner. I hope he gets into the game in Pittsburgh on Thursday. It would be cool if he gets to play against Ruopp (he's on the Penguins pre-season roster)

...after that we would gladly welcome Warner back to PA for the Saturday night game.


-Wapitikev
well he must be playing good hockey. He signed today

[Wapitikev]

well he must be playing good hockey. He signed todayHe looked good at their development camp (his shootout goal was sweet) and apparently did well last week and weekend. Surely he will play on Thursday, now that he has signed.

Way to go Hunter!

Of course that means he will be gone next fall to the AHL or ECHL or whatever.

Cheer for him while you can, Raider fans.

-Wapitikev

[SectionNDeserter]

Of course that means he will be gone next fall to the AHL or ECHL or whatever.He was drafted out of the USHL and not the CHL, so he is actually eligible to play in the AHL this season (If the Wild decide to go that route).

[Wildeyes]

Tim Leonard Leaves the Raiders person reasons

[puckdad]

Did the "personal reasons" begin with CC?

[WesternHockeyScout]

He was drafted out of the USHL and not the CHL, so he is actually eligible to play in the AHL this season (If the Wild decide to go that route).

Warner was undrafted. He was a free agent invite at Wild camp

[SectionNDeserter]

Warner was undrafted. He was a free agent invite at Wild campEither way, he is eligible to play in the AHL this season.

[Wapitikev]

While he could be eligible, the point may be moot. Rumour is that he will be arriving back in PA on Thursday with plans to do more than pack for the AHL.

We'll see if he's at practice tomorrow afternoon.

-Wapitikev

[Wildeyes]

Does it matter that he signed while he was under a CHL contract ?

[Sttop]

Yes it will matter . Had he been drafted out of the USHL he would have had options . Now his options are NHL or WHL

[Wapitikev]

Warner practiced with the team this pm.

-Wapitikev

[Dwight Schrute]

Tim Leonard Leaves the Raiders person reasons

Too bad. Hopefully Manson doesn't follow him back to the mintos

[Wapitikev]

Dave, to me, does not seem like the type to put up with a bad situation. If he was unhappy with those above him, I believe he'd have left before Tim.

Starting tonight, we'll see what Cory and Dave and Kelly can do.

The only change I'm expecting to see is that we'll clear the front of the net and defend better with Warner and Stewart back. Regina has more talented scorers than Saskatoon though and are coming off a big win, so it should be a good game tonight...although we saw a lot of Connor Gay in the pre-season so presumably should know to shut him down.

Hart had a big smile yesterday when he stepped onto the ice. Now that he is cleared to play, I'd be surprised if he didn't start. Will be good to finally see him out there with Brooks (LW) and Stransky or Gardiner...but McCarthy might also be an interesting RW on that line if the game gets chippy.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Ouch.

Got outworked in our own zone tonight too often after the first period.

Really missed Brooks tonight.

Need to see Roach with Warner next game.

-Wapitikev

[mill rat]

Ouch.

Got outworked in our own zone tonight too often after the first period.

Really missed Brooks tonight.

Need to see Roach with Warner next game.

-Wapitikev

The first period was all Raiders. They controlled the play with their forecheck. After the first 5 minutes of the second and 2 Regina goals I think the Raiders won the rest of the second. The 3rd period was all Regina and it wasn't even close.

A couple things that I didn't like. Guhle has to concentrate on the defensive side of the game. He's got to pick his spots when trying to play 10 feet inside the blueline. Too many times Regina forwards chipped the puck by him. As good of a skater as he his he still has to stick closer to that blueline. And Riddle has to be stronger on his stick. Soft passes in the d-zone. Wow. Creates all sorts of problems with a good forechecking team.

Now that Warner kid I like him. When he hits he just doesn't hit, he hits through guys. I can see him throwing some big hits this year. I think Stewart's foot speed is a lot better this year compared to last year and playing a little meaner this year.

Overall it wasn't a terrible game by the Raiders. They've got to play a full 60 minutes.

[Sttop]

Raiders trade Brooks for a 5th rounder. IMO the Raiders just traded the hardest working forward on the team . It seemed like all the other young forwards were following Brooks lead in the games he played to. Not to mention the higher pick that Conroy would have fetched. Instead they kept probably the worst defensive forward on the team in Conroy. I understand that Conroy put up almost a ppg with Leon but any forward on the team probably would too.

[RandyJackson]

I don't know. I think Hart was probably the one we should have tried to get rid of instead of Conroy or Brooks. Brooks was undoubtedly the hardest working, best two-way forward we had on the team. Not to the mention the leadership and camaraderie he brought to the dressing room for the younger guys to model themselves after. Hart is a great forward when he's on, but he's too inconsistent and injury-prone to make that service worth keeping around over someone like Brooks. Not to mention his lacklustre defensive play. In terms of Conroy, his defensive game may need some attention, but he's a lot more consistent offensive contributor, has barely missed a game due to injury/illness, and is a positive/joking type of guy in the dressing room - something every team needs. I think it's about time that Bruno and the guys start to wake up and take team chemistry into consideration when making trades. This could easily turn into the next McVeigh disaster. Let's hope that I'm wrong.

[puckdad]

You gotta think that there would have been some interest in all 4 of our overagers this year. They all bring something different to the table. Trouble is, in 2 weeks at the deadline, teams can pick up a quality 20 year old and not have to give up anything in return. A 5th rounder for a quality 2-way player with an excellent dressing room presence who could likely move up to a 2nd line centre role is not a great return, but it's something.
I'd think that Hart would have been shopped around, even while nursing his latest injury. He's a more imposing physical specimen and can be a beast when he's healthy, but is also prone to injury, and has a history on 2 teams of not getting along well with team mates. He won't get many assists, cause he's not a good passer, & it doesn't cross his mind to feed an open line mate. Probably why Gardiner's stats nosedived last year while he was paired with him & likely why they had their dust-up.
In his time here, Bruno has never really had a sense of the mood in the dressing room or how players' personalities can influence team chemistry. Remember, he's the guy who hand-picked Mark McNeill as team captain and made him untouchable and unaccountable, even though he had zero interest in being a team leader or even befriending any of his team mates. He also assembled one of the most dysfunctional coaching staffs that I've ever seen anywhere, in any sport. You can't continually be tone-deaf to off-ice relationships & expect much on-ice success.

[Raider Believer]

You gotta think that there would have been some interest in all 4 of our overagers this year. They all bring something different to the table. Trouble is, in 2 weeks at the deadline, teams can pick up a quality 20 year old and not have to give up anything in return. A 5th rounder for a quality 2-way player with an excellent dressing room presence who could likely move up to a 2nd line centre role is not a great return, but it's something.
I'd think that Hart would have been shopped around, even while nursing his latest injury. He's a more imposing physical specimen and can be a beast when he's healthy, but is also prone to injury, and has a history on 2 teams of not getting along well with team mates. He won't get many assists, cause he's not a good passer, & it doesn't cross his mind to feed an open line mate. Probably why Gardiner's stats nosedived last year while he was paired with him & likely why they had their dust-up.
In his time here, Bruno has never really had a sense of the mood in the dressing room or how players' personalities can influence team chemistry. Remember, he's the guy who hand-picked Mark McNeill as team captain and made him untouchable and unaccountable, even though he had zero interest in being a team leader or even befriending any of his team mates. He also assembled one of the most dysfunctional coaching staffs that I've ever seen anywhere, in any sport. You can't continually be tone-deaf to off-ice relationships & expect much on-ice success.

Puckdad, I can't find one word written here that I don't heartily agree with!
Unfortunately, we are still stuck with Bruno, probably as a result of an apathetic Board of Directors. I know from personal experience that Bruno Campese is too arrogant to ever admit he is wrong or take the time to develop some people skills. In short, I've come to the conclusion that he just isn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen. I feel badly for the fans and players that he continues to disappoint.

[sbtatter]

Any thoughts on the current odds of Morrissey being returned to PA?

[Wapitikev]

Current consensus is between October 7th and October 29th.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Any thoughts on the current odds of Morrissey being returned to PA?

Quit being greedy the Wheaties are already stacked haha

[Wapitikev]

Heh.

[sbtatter]

Quit being greedy the Wheaties are already stacked haha

Ha, the price for JM is probably too high!!!! But the Jets might like having him just down the Hwy!!!

[Sttop]

There's no doubt they would . And I would suggest the Wheaties have more then enough depth to do it . No doubt he is one of the most impact dman in the league .

[Wapitikev]

40 minute effort last night.

Byblow and Schmyr were in mid-season form as well.

We'll need a better effort to take points out of Regina tonight.

Good on Andrlik for playing his way up the roster.

Way to go Sawyer Lange tied for 3rd in the league among d-men

BTW, if anyone finds the first line, let them know there's a game in Regina @ 7pm.

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Hart needs another hard working , fast player to play with . Almost like Brooks.

[puckdad]

Agreed
Our 1st line was badly outplayed last night. I know he scored in the shootout, but Conroy as a game star was a head scratcher, especially when Point was the best player on the ice last night.

[Sttop]

Conroy was the weakest player on the ice . He can score if given time and space ( like Leon gave him ) but that's all . Why he's on the pk I will never figure out . Truth is convoy won't be much help unless Leon is sent back

[sbtatter]

Listening to the Jets play by play guys tonight and they are expecting Morrissey and Petan to be sent back to junior shortly.....

[Sttop]

don't screw with our emotions lol. but with the way Anderlik and Lange have improved that would be a very solid D

Morrissey - Warner
Anderlik - Lange
Mac - Guhle
Riddle

[sbtatter]

don't screw with our emotions lol. but with the way Anderlik and Lange have improved that would be a very solid D

Morrissey - Warner
Anderlik - Lange
Mac - Guhle
Riddle

Haha, i know selfishly I hope the Jets keep him, but they seemed pretty sure he would go back to PA. Swifty might pay you a kings ransom for him now Honka's history.......

[mill rat]

That Kryski kid is tied for first in rookie scoring so far this year. I know it's early for his projections but I still have to shake my head at that trade.

[Sttop]

It's the worst trade I have seen . Even if Bruno's hands are tied on kRyski the scouting staff needs to see that Chevy is a average goalie at best . And Bruno needs to know you can't trade a blue chip 15 year old for a 20 year old that wasn't even wanted on his team anymore. KRyski is the real deal no doubt. Now Bruno needs to see we need another elite winger ( even if Leon comes back)

[Sttop]

Morrissey sent back and cogs traded for a 7th to the Blades . Both good news . Imo we trade guhle for a great forward now.

[sbtatter]

Morrissey sent back and cogs traded for a 7th to the Blades . Both good news . Imo we trade guhle for a great forward now.

I guess the Jets play by play guys knew what they were talking about! They basically said Postma is a stop gap this season for Morrissey to come in next season

[puckdad]

He should really help the PP. So poised with the puck & getting pucks cleanly to the net. Nothing against Tomas, who has been playing well, but last night giving up 3 short-handed breakaways was tough to watch.

[Sttop]

Tomas had to take a big step up and other then those breakaways last night has surpassed what I thought he was capable of . Morrissey will help the defence for sure but won't help the development of guhle or Riddle . And there's no way I would trade away Warner , Tomas , Mac , or Lange . Unless we don't have the team to win a round. We have seen we are going to get Good goaltending and the defence will be good . But I would like to see a player like Bleakley or Bowles added to the forwards . If it doesn't work out we have tons to sell at the deadline

[Dwight Schrute]

Think they would actually move morrisey and lose out on the first round development money?

[Playerside]

Kryski may be the real deal but under Clouston regime he won't be the only player to not want to report to PA. As a Blazer he has the chance to be the real deal. As to Chevy. Played key role in Blazers success for two seasons and fan favorite. Might take a look at Blazers bus when it next roles through PA.

[Dwight Schrute]

Kryski may be the real deal but under Clouston regime he won't be the only player to not want to report to PA. As a Blazer he has the chance to be the real deal. As to Chevy. Played key role in Blazers success for two seasons and fan favorite. Might take a look at Blazers bus when it next roles through PA.

Clouston or campese it doesn't matter if your going to spend a first round pick be sure they will report or else don't cave into their trade demands. Make the kid sit out. There was no rush especially since it was still a year before he could play

Cowan didn't wanna go to Spokane but they picked him anyway

[Sttop]

Kryski may be the real deal but under Clouston regime he won't be the only player to not want to report to PA. As a Blazer he has the chance to be the real deal. As to Chevy. Played key role in Blazers success for two seasons and fan favorite. Might take a look at Blazers bus when it next roles through PA.

Fan favorite or not he wasent going to be with the Blazers that year . They knew Kozun was the starter. Don't get me wrong Chevy was very good in the community and no doubt tried his hardest but the fact is he was the worst starting goalie we have had since Tucker.

[Playerside]

Fan favorite or not he wasent going to be with the Blazers that year . They knew Kozun was the starter. Don't get me wrong Chevy was very good in the community and no doubt tried his hardest but the fact is he was the worst starting goalie we have had since Tucker.
Not being wanted by a team (as your initial post stated) and creating room for younger players reads quite differently. Kozun too was traded. Chevy came to PA with the ability to help lead the Raiders but unfortunately for him seems Clouston prefers soldiers to leaders. Only so many times can a player be run over by a bus before they lose themselves. Blazer fans wish Chevy much success at SMU.

[Wapitikev]

Hockey news reports Morrissey returned to Raiders.

Raiders trade Coghlan back to Saskatoon for 7th Round pick in 2015.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

And there was much rejoicing in Hockeytown North!

-Wapitikev

[Sttop]

Not being wanted by a team (as your initial post stated) and creating room for younger players reads quite differently. Kozun too was traded. Chevy came to PA with the ability to help lead the Raiders but unfortunately for him seems Clouston prefers soldiers to leaders. Only so many times can a player be run over by a bus before they lose themselves. Blazer fans wish Chevy much success at SMU.

He wouldn't have been near the bus if we didn't have high expectations for him (giving up kryski) then once he got here he was out played by a 16 year old Mcbride.

[Sttop]

Mcbride going to play 72? boy the Raiders play the legs off the starting goalie.

[sbtatter]

Tri Cities were big and fast in Bdn and played a suffocating forecheck, how were they up in PA?

[puckdad]

Big team - very structured in their systems. Raiders were actually the better team, except in goal. McBride allowed 3 softies before being pulled & that was the difference in the game. Comrie was lights out good.

[sbtatter]

Big team - very structured in their systems. Raiders were actually the better team, except in goal. McBride allowed 3 softies before being pulled & that was the difference in the game. Comrie was lights out good.

Comrie was unbelievable here as well, kept them in the 3rd period and OT

[puckdad]

Was surprised at the lack of comments about this game. I thought losing to the last place team that was previously win-less and very fragile emotionally would trigger a lot of responses. Could it be that fans have ceased to care any more about the fate of this team?

My thoughts on the game:
Moving practice to the Kinsmen Arena last week really back-fired. The hard, fast ice at Kinsmen is the opposite of the soft, slow ice at Credit Union Centre (Or whatever they're calling the Saskatoon Arena these days). Couldn't keep the puck on their sticks or make a play to save their lives.


What were the reasons for scrambling the lines & the D-Pairings? Our so-called 1st line of Quinney/Hart/Conroy has been largely invisible, so Hart moved to RW & teamed with Leverton on LW & Gardiner to C. 2nd line of Quinney/Tkatch/Conroy. Now both top lines are ineffective. Started 7 defensemen, but I don't know if I saw Riddle on the ice after the 1st period. D were out of sync all game & were constantly defending after never-ending turnovers.

Power Play:
Has gone from simple, "get pucks to the net & crash & bang in a rebound" to
controlling the puck on the perimeter, but rarely getting it to the net. We desperately need someone to carry & protect the puck similar to Leon's role last year. Right now, they're constantly retreating to recover cleared pucks & having to break out 4-6 times per PP.

Morissey:
Probably his worst game ever as a Raider. I don't know if he doesn't trust his team-mates or is simply not familiar with them, but he personally was responsible for least a dozen turnovers when there was a play to be made to an open player. Players at this level simply cannot make the plays that pro players are capable of, so he'll have to adjust back to Dub speed in a hurry, and realize that trying to do too much can back-fire in a hurry. You can't simply give up after you turn the puck over or get beaten on the boards (Watch the tying goal). I've never seen that from him before.

Warner:
This is a tough kid! He took a few shots to land some bombs. Look out opponents if he ever learns to throw with his left. Hope he stays healthy.

This team as a whole has to learn what it takes to win and also learn to hate losing. Right now they are far too comfortable settling for a loss, with no one stepping forward and accepting responsibility for the team's poor performance. Until some players do, look for the L's to continue.

[Sttop]

I am a big fan of Warner , but wonder where Big Macs edge has gone. It is obvious that the wrong 20 year old was kept. Leon is gone no more open nets Conroy u will have to work for them.

[Sttop]

Depending which direction the Raiders want to go would dictate which way they go . If Leon were to come back there's no chance Bruno doesn't try to make a run for a banner . in that case I wouldn't hesitate to trade Guhle for a impact forward .

[Wapitikev]

As much as I hate watching the team struggle like they have, it's too early to knock the team for not making big moves until Leon has played his 10th game in the NHL, which could be as soon as 2 weeks from now.

At that point a decision can be made on where to go in the second quarter of the season, if the team has shown no improvement.

Any decision made prior to that would be premature.

There certainly is a ton of things to sort out between now and then, though.

-Wapitikev

[Landon]

The Raiders need to put a winning team with great leaders that are willing to go the distance for each other. Morrissey by the sounds of it is a good leader other then that there isn't any in my opinion.
I am getting tired of going to the rink and watching unorganized raider hockey. There needs to be a complete overhaul from the president down to the stick boy IMO.

[puckdad]

I'd like to see the 4 team leaders take it upon themselves to get together & try to work out their own solution to the malaise that affects the team on the ice. The complete disarray of the Raider organization (Feuding coaches, resignations, questionable scouting & drafting, trades that disrupt team chemistry, brutal game-day experience for fans that is actually driving people away from the AHC) are all issues that are out of their control. The only thing they are responsible for is their play on the ice come game time.

Looking for some or all of these 4 to not be satisfied with the losing attitude that they seem to have accepted & say to themselves that they have to individually & collectively play better. Then they have to inspire their team-mates to look within themselves & give more at each practice & game. Learning what it takes to win is a skill that can be taught & learned just like any other. Every time you lace up the skates you have to have the attitude that you are going to win, not just go out & "do your job" and hope you don't lose. I used to hate playing against those arrogant teams that just expected to win every night, but that mind-set that "each & every night we will find a way to beat you" is responsible for a lot of victories in every sport.

[Sttop]

Agreed . I know Bruno works hard and wants the team to do well , but has made some horrible roster decisions that have really hurt the team going forward . I also understand that he needs to make the playoffs to make some money ... BUT I know that the team would make more money if they would have rebuilt properly and put a strong team on the ice . I think the # of fans the team has gotten over the last 3 years is fantastic for the quality of hockey we have seen . Bruno decided not to trAde McNeill the last year he was here. Instead getting pumped 4 straight in the first round . Now do you take 2 home playoff games revenue over what Bruno would have gotten for McNeill , bardaro , ruopp, and Siemens ??? Bruno loves the 17 year olds on his roster but imagine adding at least 2 first round pics , 2 2nds and no doubt some immediate roster help that would have been gotten in the deals had Bruno been realistic . This team would have been well basically Brandon deep for years to come . Not to mention kryski added to the mix . I don't care what kev says it was a horrible mismanagement of a huge asset . and the fact Bruno took a mid round pick in the deal tells me he thought it was a fair deal . 3 years of franchise forward vs 1 year worst statistical goalie in the league who lost his job to a 16 year old .

[puckdad]

I agree with your analysis & I think we agree that the players aren't in an environment that encourages the development of any respect or leadership skills. Respect cannot simply be demanded, it has to be earned. And, it is a 2-way street. If you treat your players with some respect, and not just a bunch of individuals that you need to control. you may begin to earn yourself a degree of respect in return.

Willy Desjardins is where he is now after a very successful junior & AHL career by really knowing his players both at & away from the rink, and allowing them to feel a sense of empowerment that comes when their efforts & opinions matter. Every one of his current & former players would run through a wall for him & each other. I can't picture any current Raider doing the same for BC or CC.

[Dwight Schrute]

I agree with your analysis & I think we agree that the players aren't in an environment that encourages the development of any respect or leadership skills. Respect cannot simply be demanded, it has to be earned. And, it is a 2-way street. If you treat your players with some respect, and not just a bunch of individuals that you need to control. you may begin to earn yourself a degree of respect in return.

Willy Desjardins is where he is now after a very successful junior & AHL career by really knowing his players both at & away from the rink, and allowing them to feel a sense of empowerment that comes when their efforts & opinions matter. Every one of his current & former players would run through a wall for him & each other. I can't picture any current Raider doing the same for BC or CC.
There will never be success under Bruno 7 years now ? And nothing to brag about. Any positive move can be countered with 3 negative ones

Willy desjardins is a whole different class that's why he is a NHL coach and clouston couldn't cut it

[Wapitikev]

I was reading all the negative comments from last Thursday and realized that there were no positive comments for how hard the boys tried on Friday and Saturday.

I'd like to congratulate the team for coming together versus Edmonton after a rocky first 5 minutes and playing a very solid 115 minutes of Hockey since then.

Certainly there were problems at times, not everything works all the time, but the compete level that seemed missing in the past few weeks was there this weekend and even though they lost on Friday they were an interesting team to watch.

Even Conroy seems to have the monkey off his back...last night was his strongest game of the season, so far, despite not factoring in the scoring. Very good effort.

Good to see Morrissey smiling and talking/joking with Lange last night in the third period, seemed to be having fun.

Nice to see Nick have a great game after a few rocky ones and credit to the boys for making it easier on him last night than in past contests. Defensively good performances by the skaters, like Friday and Saturday, will do great things for both Parenateau and McBride's confidence and the entire team's spirit.

Parenteau deserves credit for turning in good performances in his last two starts (.928 against Saskatoon and Edmonton).

Glad that Genarro's hustle rewarded him with his first goal (and point) this season. Hope that there are many more to come for him.

Good to see Tim Vanstone back. Lots of energy and that seemed to be infectious.

Lots of other positives that I don't have time to mention.

Great games boys. Playing effectively as a team. Keep up that effort and you will continue to have success as a team.

-Wapitikev

[BigFanHockeyNut]

I was reading all the negative comments from last Thursday and realized that there were no positive comments for how hard the boys tried on Friday and Saturday.

I'd like to congratulate the team for coming together versus Edmonton after a rocky first 5 minutes and playing a very solid 115 minutes of Hockey since then.

Certainly there were problems at times, not everything works all the time, but the compete level that seemed missing in the past few weeks was there this weekend and even though they lost on Friday they were an interesting team to watch.

Even Conroy seems to have the monkey off his back...last night was his strongest game of the season, so far, despite not factoring in the scoring. Very good effort.

Good to see Morrissey smiling and talking/joking with Lange last night in the third period, seemed to be having fun.

Nice to see Nick have a great game after a few rocky ones and credit to the boys for making it easier on him last night than in past contests. Defensively good performances by the skaters, like Friday and Saturday, will do great things for both Parenateau and McBride's confidence and the entire team's spirit.

Parenteau deserves credit for turning in good performances in his last two starts (.928 against Saskatoon and Edmonton).

Glad that Genarro's hustle rewarded him with his first goal (and point) this season. Hope that there are many more to come for him.

Good to see Tim Vanstone back. Lots of energy and that seemed to be infectious.

Lots of other positives that I don't have time to mention.

Great games boys. Playing effectively as a team. Keep up that effort and you will continue to have success as a team.

-Wapitikev

Certainly can't argue with you on the effort and compete level of the last 2 nights. Effort of this kind will help them win more games down the road, however, the extent and level to which effort alone will get the team remains to be seen.

Being relatively new to the blog I've attempted to read comments from both this and last year.

The confusing thing to me as a fan is the following...

In 2012-13 the Raiders (in my humble opinion) had a successful season under the direction of Steve Young, Dave Manson, and Tim Leonard. This was Young's first full season behind the bench after Campese stepped down. Their winning percentage that year was .563 and they made the playoffs losing in the 1st round. Since Peter Anholt had the team in 2003-2004 that was the highest winning percentage the Raiders had had and was only the 5th time in those 10 years they had made the playoffs. Steve Young took the 2004-2005 MJ Warriors who had a winning percentage of 0.267 under Shockey and in 2005-2006 took them to a winning percentage of 0.667 where they lost in the finals. Obviously a good coach to turn teams around. The team made money, there was a good young coaching staff in place, there were good roster players and it seemed a future plan was in place for success. More importantly the coaching staff understood the history of the Raiders and understood the community of PA.

Suddenly, in somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction, and after a successful year the leadership group of the Raiders decides that this success was not enough and that Steve Young was the problem. I've heard rumours that some of the players (McNeil, Bardaro, Winther) felt that he was to lax in his discipline etc. Dave Manson and Tim Leonard were felt not to be a problem although they were part of the same staff that year and presumably had input into discipline and player relations. A quick perusal of any hockey data base shows that none of these players have yet made it to the next level BUT obviously there opinions were very important to the Raider leadership group.

A coaching search ensued and the decision to hire Cory Clouston was made by the leadership group. Clouston's record at the WHL, AHL, and NHL level is good with win percentages between .471-.722 but there were certainly rumours out of Koot, Ottawa, Brandon about his difficult relationships with younger and star players.

In 2013-2014 Clouston led the Raiders to a 0.521 win percentage and a 1st round exit in playoffs. That year the Raiders lost 270,000$ for a variety of reasons - some of which was on ice-product.

One could argue given the decision to fire Steve Young and a similar season produced by Clouston that Clouston to would be fired. He was not.

For me it has never really been the fault of the players. Yes, some have under produced but others have over produced. I would surmise that on paper the Raiders have had one of the upper echelon of rosters in the CHL. Not the best, but very good. I have felt a sense of under achievement for the roster last year and for the start of this year.

I personally feel that firing Young (or hiring CC) was very unnecessary given the success of the team the year prior. I wonder if Steve (or another hire like Dave Struch) had been allowed to guide the team whether there would have been better results or similar results. The key is that the Raiders organization said that the change would make the team and organization better. Obviously, from a record stand point there has been no change and certainly from a financial standpoint there has been a significant worsening. The change also cost them significantly more money in terms of coaching dollars!!!

PA should make playoffs but may have to do it on a wild card basis. Would the team have better results with a different coach - that's debatable. What bothers me is that we have a team full of 19 yo's that are all gonna be gone next year and we are not developing players. We are selling the Raider future out for some low end success this year! Part of planning involves developing players of your list to make runs for success in 2-3 year cycles. If your really good at it you always make the playoffs (Port, Edm, Koot, Kel etc). Going for the throat every night and not developing your list/younger players (especially when your not finishing in 1st) is hockey mistake 101.

On top of it all we have lost Tim Leonard a valuable coaching asset, and players are quitting (McCarthy). McCarthy played the 2 previous seasons in MJ who did not have a winning record and generally played 3rd or 4th line as he did in PA so if his playing situation didn't change in PA why did he quit? The Raiders had players on their list who didn't even show up to camp this fall (why were they on 50 PPL)? Kryski comes to Raiders spring camp at time when the coaching search is on, next thing we know CC announced as coach and Kryski won't come (coincidence?). Now we have Stewart playing forward (like he did last year) because CC says on radio that he's struggling defensively. Interestingly, Stewart is -6 and Andrlik is -10 - so who is struggling?

If you want to be positive for the players then be positive but also don't be afraid to question the direction of the team. There will be those that say it's none of our business but the funny thing about a community owned team is that it is our business. The Raiders are the property of the PA community and people should stop eating what they are being fed.

I am uncertain whether CC will be renewed or extended but find it unlikely. The decisions made by the board at the end of this season (or sooner) may be the most critical in Raiders history to ensure their future stability and success.

Based on your posts you seem like a true fan like myself!! Very logical in your thoughts. I just choose to focus my thoughts on the level above the players.

[Playerside]

Conroy leaves Raiders. Had enough of CC..

[Dwight Schrute]

Young never should have been fired. He was Bruno's fall guy. And all people knew of clouston was "NHL coach"...... Not why is he back in the dub ? And why did Brandon can him ?
I've wanted Bruno let go for years now so don't get your hopes up. Just hope one day the board pulls their heads out of their rear ends

Players quitting is nothing new under campese.

[Sttop]

I couldn't agree more. Young is the guy for the job. or somehow let him and Dave run the show. Campese and CC need to go. Since last year we have had Morden walk off the team. then Perreaux , basically Danyluk, Tim Leonard , Mccarthy ,and now Conroy. And not 1 of them will say they didn't leave because of management or coaching.

[mill rat]

I couldn't agree more. Young is the guy for the job. or somehow let him and Dave run the show. Campese and CC need to go. Since last year we have had Morden walk off the team. then Perreaux , basically Danyluk, Tim Leonard , Mccarthy ,and now Conroy. And not 1 of them will say they didn't leave because of management or coaching.

It's a shame what has been allowed to go on by the Board. It is ultimately their fault for the fiasco that is taking place. Campese and Clouston should have been gone after last season. Scratch that, Campese should have been fired years ago and Clouston never should have been hired. Kelly Mccrimmon knew what he was doing when he got rid of Clouston. Unfortunately PA end up with him.

And Campese has held on to his role in PA for so long. I'm confounded. There is a whole laundry list of reasons why Campese should be fired. But they've been hashed and re-hashed on this message board already. Poor decisions and overall failing grade for Campese in his tenure. I don't understand how he still has a job. I will say this if I see either of Campese or Clouston as part of this organization next year I will not continue to go to games.

What's happening with this club is embarrassing. Embarrassing.

[Raider Believer]

I couldn't agree more. Young is the guy for the job. or somehow let him and Dave run the show. Campese and CC need to go. Since last year we have had Morden walk off the team. then Perreaux , basically Danyluk, Tim Leonard , Mccarthy ,and now Conroy. And not 1 of them will say they didn't leave because of management or coaching.

Bruno has to go? Where have I heard that before? Players leaving? Where have I heard that before? Lack of on-ice success? When was the last time they had a season with real success i.e. deep into the playoffs?

Kev has been a great supporter of Campese and the team. Support of Campese is laughable as time has proved. But I too salute Kev's support of the team.

The real responsibility rests with the Board of Directors who have been complacent and essentially incompetent. They should have tied a can to BC's self serving butt a long time ago.

[Landon]

Its time this so called "BOARD" gets involved and starts interviewing past and present players about there time with the Raiders. How can the fans see whats going on but the President, GM, Coach and board all down play it.
Morden, Parenteau, Mccarthy, and Conroy have all quit hockey. They didn't ask to be traded or released, if I was president or a board member that would be a huge RED flag. Tim Leonard quitting would have been a red flag. Danyluk not coming back would have been a red flag. These players love the game and have played since kids and to just quit tells me that something is going on and it needs to be addressed NOW.
This team is in a spiral, the Raiders lost over a quarter of a million dollars last year and this year is going to be more. Spend the money to make changes now and be rewarded later.

[Sttop]

How about this ?? You fire Bruno derkatch and CC today . You bring back Leonard for a quarter of cloustons contract with club options for next year of a reasonable rate . You have the office staff still do the same day to day things to run the club . Use Mcfee , Broda and a couple scouts to decide the direction they want to take with the roster . Problem solved

[SectionNDeserter]

How about this ?? You fire Bruno derkatch and CC today . You bring back Leonard for a quarter of cloustons contract with club options for next year of a reasonable rate . You have the office staff still do the same day to day things to run the club . Use Mcfee , Broda and a couple scouts to decide the direction they want to take with the roster . Problem solvedIn what way? A WHL coach getting fired isn't like you or I getting fired, they would still have to pay them till the end of their contracts, as well as pay Leonard or whoever else's contract. To me that doesn't sound like a great idea for a team that lost over a quarter of a million dollars last year.

[Wildeyes]

Solid effort tonight by the Raiders. They owned the play for the better part of the game. Mackenzie Stewart was a beast playing forward. Throwing out some big hits that had the Ice D-man refusing to take a pass in their own end. Nice to see Hart get going tonight. After a weak goal McBride bounced back and had a good game. Just need to get the PowerPlay working again has fizzled out the last couple of games. Nice to see the effort.

[Sttop]

In what way? A WHL coach getting fired isn't like you or I getting fired, they would still have to pay them till the end of their contracts, as well as pay Leonard or whoever else's contract. To me that doesn't sound like a great idea for a team that lost over a quarter of a million dollars last year.

The idea is that next year we don't renew that 400k in contracts and have a coach and gm this year that the kids will play for. Derkatch is a total waste of salary

[Raider Believer]

The idea is that next year we don't renew that 400k in contracts and have a coach and gm this year that the kids will play for. Derkatch is a total waste of salary

Exactly!

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Richard Nejezchleb (32G, 25A 13/14) (20 yo import) returned to Brandon today from NHL.

Why not trade Dakota Conroy (20 yo) to Brandon for Nejezchleb (20 yo import). This gives the Raiders a pseudo Leon replacement for the 1st line with good size and can SCORE.

To solve the too many import problem the Raiders would then have - release (or trade if possible) Andrlik who is a 19 yo (won't be back next year) (Raiders have too many 19 yo D) which creates space on the blue line to develop Riddle and Roach. You don't need to move Josh until trade deadline depending on record.

Just a thought.

[Wapitikev]

Richard Nejezchleb (32G, 25A 13/14) (20 yo import) returned to Brandon today from NHL.

Why not trade Dakota Conroy (20 yo) to Brandon for Nejezchleb (20 yo import). This gives the Raiders a pseudo Leon replacement for the 1st line with good size and can SCORE.

To solve the too many import problem the Raiders would then have - release (or trade if possible) Andrlik who is a 19 yo (won't be back next year) (Raiders have too many 19 yo D) which creates space on the blue line to develop Riddle and Roach. You don't need to move Josh until trade deadline depending on record.

Just a thought.Love your posts, BFHN. Welcome to the message board.

Good thought, but as I mentioned a couple of days back, not a move that should be made until next Tuesday after the "Leon question" is answered...I'd rather not see us give up assets to Brandon unless absolutely necessary.

Adding either forward could see Andrlik traded or released which, as you say, makes room for Riddle or Roach to get important development minutes...as would leaving Stewart at forward.

Agree about Josh as well.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Solid effort tonight by the Raiders. They owned the play for the better part of the game. Mackenzie Stewart was a beast playing forward. Throwing out some big hits that had the Ice D-man refusing to take a pass in their own end. Nice to see Hart get going tonight. After a weak goal McBride bounced back and had a good game. Just need to get the PowerPlay working again has fizzled out the last couple of games. Nice to see the effort.Agreed...the effort was just as good last night as it was on Friday and Saturday...good to see that the departure of Conroy and McCarthy didn't have a negative effect on the room or the on-ice effort of the 21 players that they quit on. In fact, since McCarthy's departure the Raiders have played their most consistent 9 consecutive periods of hockey so far this season...and Genarro looked right at home with Hart and Quinney last night...a line he needs to stick on if he hopes to get drafted next summer by an NHL team.

Also liked the checking line of Vanstone, Mac and Zaharichuk...they did a great job of keeping the Ice in their own end. They did everything but score.

Looking forward to the game on Friday night. Hope Parenteau gets the start.


In what way? A WHL coach getting fired isn't like you or I getting fired, they would still have to pay them till the end of their contracts, as well as pay Leonard or whoever else's contract. To me that doesn't sound like a great idea for a team that lost over a quarter of a million dollars last year.The Bruno/Cory/(and now Dale) haters don't worry about the money that paying them to go home while paying other bodies to replace them, would waste. They also don't mention that the Board can be rid of all them for nothing at the end of the season by simply not renewing any of those contracts next spring.

If the Raiders make the playoffs this year, then Bruno becomes the first Raiders GM to have a team make the playoffs for three years straight since 1997...using players he drafted, listed acquired and developed since his first bantam draft in 2008; that's an accomplishment which could get his option year picked up next spring.

So it's not a big surprise that the haters are pulling out all the stops to get him fired now instead of waiting for the end of the year and taking the chance that it might not happen.

There's no question that the posters on this board are passionate in their beliefs and I respect passionate fans that support the team through good times and bad. It is unfortunate however that some are ready to close the book on the season after only 11 games, and the team is only 1 game under 500.

After the effort the team showed over the last 5 days, the players look like they are unconvinced that the season is over.

Personally, I'd rather see the players who want to be here overcome the adversity of the first 11 games this year than to repeat the 30 game slump that the team had after Dec1st the previous 2 years, after red hot starts until Nov 30.

Mark me down for saving the money and seeing how the season plays out.

-Wapitikev

[Wapitikev]

Richard Nejezchleb (32G, 25A 13/14) (20 yo import) returned to Brandon today from NHL.

Why not trade Dakota Conroy (20 yo) to Brandon for Nejezchleb (20 yo import). This gives the Raiders a pseudo Leon replacement for the 1st line with good size and can SCORE.

To solve the too many import problem the Raiders would then have - release (or trade if possible) Andrlik who is a 19 yo (won't be back next year) (Raiders have too many 19 yo D) which creates space on the blue line to develop Riddle and Roach. You don't need to move Josh until trade deadline depending on record.

Just a thought.


Love your posts, BFHN. Welcome to the message board.

Good thought, but as I mentioned a couple of days back, not a move that should be made until next Tuesday after the "Leon question" is answered...I'd rather not see us give up assets to Brandon unless absolutely necessary.

Adding either forward could see Andrlik traded or released which, as you say, makes room for Riddle or Roach to get important development minutes...as would leaving Stewart at forward.

Agree about Josh as well.

-WapitikevI see that Leon got another assist tonight and was +1...so the Oil will probably keep him.

-Wapitikev

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Thx Wapitikev.

I want LD back like most fans.

Unfortunately, Craig Simpson eloquently stated the problem the Oilers are faced with in making that decision.

1) Unless the Oilers make a trade in the next week, they have absolutely no depth at center. RNH, LD, Boyd Gordon, Mark Arcobello.

2) Monday's and tonights' games are the best LD has played in the regular season (14:04 and 13:39 mins of ice-time). SO he does seem to be improving as the season progresses - important factor in Oiler's decision.

3) The most critical factor that Simpson outlined is "will his development in PA be superior to his development with Oiler's". I hate to say, it but Craig actually chuckled when he said this on the broadcast. The absence of a "forwards" coach (Tim Leonard), the absence of what I hear was LD's best friend Dakota Conroy, and the negative press of player departures etc. in the media (regardless of who is at fault) are all negative factors against LD's return.

I think when taking all these factors into account Leon will not be back in a Raiders uniform. Craig Simpson even stated tonight that the decision for LD is "totally different" than the decision for Nurse. So the pundits arguing that because Nurse came back that LD should are wrong in the Oiler's eyes. Hope I'm wrong. I do agree though that we have to wait until next Tuesday to see.

As far as the money issues with a coaching change go here is some information to ponder.

At the beginning of the year the team budgeted to pay Cory, Dave and Tim. Now Tim quit so the team does not owe him any money out of his contract that was left. They promoted Kelly Guard. Guard was probably getting some money as goalie coach so probably got some of the money team saved by Tim quitting but would think that team still made money on Tim quitting.

IF and I mean IF CC was terminated the team would probably owe him for 6 months remaining on contract. This is not extra money but money that the team had budgeted to spend already. It would just stink that they would have to pay it to a guy no longer working for it.

A likely scenario would be that Bruno would step back on the bench with Dave for the rest of the year. No further money would be required to be spent by the Raiders for the rest of the year. In fact, the money saved from Tim's departure would actually put Raiders under budget for coaching money.

At the end of the year - everyone's contract is up for review. If you want to clean house - you clean house. So really, a coaching departure is possible without costing the team any money.

So what is the real question?

Since the real concern of the Board is finances, specifically, increased profits, decreased losses - the following is the question that must be answered. "Would terminating CC's contract now increase team revenues?".

Obviously a winning product helps bring fans into the stands and therefore increase revenues through beer and concession sales etc. It is difficult to state with a crystal ball certainty whether terminating CC would improve or hurt the winning product on the ice. Assuming no immediate player changes that would depend on the quality of the existing relationship between CC and the players. If it really is bad then a change should improve performance but not guaranteed. If the relationship is OK then a change would not help.

Another factor to consider is are fans staying away because they feel that CC has alienated the PA community with his interpersonal interactions (or lack thereof) with fans and community. This combined with recent and past player departures and unfortunately a history of similar problems with past teams. That problem could only be fixed by his departure/termination or would need some significant PR work on behalf of the Raiders to help the coach achieve a better relationship with community and fans.

Clouston is most likely a very good X and O's hockey coach. You don't get the opportunities that he has had by luck or by being a bad coach. However, there is a lot more to success in coaching than X's and O's , particularly at the Junior level.

More importantly, there is a WHOLE LOT MORE to bringing fans into the stands than just wins and losses alone and coaching is only part of the equation. A good analogy is like the TV talk show "The Tonight Show" (just dated myself). The guests, the conversation etc. has been the same through all the years it has been on TV. BUT the number of people that watched it sure depended on who the host was (Carson, Leno etc). I'm not saying I agree, but Clouston just may be a host that people don't want to watch anymore even when the on-ice product is good and exciting. I know that sounds strange but Junior hockey IS an entertainment business. When ratings decline revenues decline (fans) and ultimately a change is needed. I guess the worst case scenario would be the Raiders finish near the top of the standings but fan base decreases. I don't think this extreme is realistic but may give some insight as to why fans are so fickle a this early stage of the season. Ultimately, the team needs to understand they are not catering to common hockey sense they NEED to cater to the fan who can be crazy at times. If you don't give the fans what the fans want they don't buy tickets and the business doesn't succeed. The problem is that fans and consumers can be "crazy" at times and the real key is finding out what the fans want - wins and losses, cheerleaders in the stands, intermission entertainment, wanting the coach terminated. I'm not saying it makes sense but it's business and subtle changes and things that sometimes don't make sense can have huge impact at the end. The key is to have the vision, knowledge and confidence to make those changes whether it be coaching, management, marketing ideas, players etc.

Since a coaching change doesn't have to cost the Raiders any extra-money the timing of the change or whether the change is even necessary will remain an interesting debate. The only answer to the debate will be time....

Hope the Raiders organization and players can work through these interesting times!!

[Wapitikev]

Agreed that the specific moves you describe could keep the team under budget...but Bruno stepping back onto the bench is going to go over with a lot of posters here like the proverbial lead balloon...roasting Corey for sins real or imagined is just a convenient way for some to get at Bruno.

From what I saw last night, neither the Conroy news nor the negative opinions of a dozen or so people here and on PAnow seemed to shrink the crowd more than the average fall-off for a Tuesday evening when the temperature was 20 above outside....not many of those left this fall.

The next 11 games may show a trend...or they may not. As you say, time will tell the tale. But I don't suspect board members to make a decision on firing the coach after 11 games based on an attendance drop that hasn't happened yet. Sometimes the best way to calm the storm is to have the vision and confidence not to make changes until the knowledge about what the fans want changed is clear.

Good discussion.

-Wapitikev

[Wildeyes]

The Raiders have claimed forward Marcus Messier from free agency. The 20-year old has played in the WHL since 2010 with Tri-City and Spokane. Messier has 26 career goals and 41 career assists in 229 regular season games played. Last season split between Tri-City and Spokane, Messier had 31 points (10G, 21A). He will report to the team this weekend.


Season Team GP G A PTS +/- PIM
2013-14 Regular Season Spokane Chiefs 32 5 6 11 -5 10
2013-14 Regular Season Tri-City Americans 39 5 15 20 -3 10
Totals 71 10 21 31 -8 20


What do you guys think?

[BigFanHockeyNut]

I thought the first 2 periods of last nights game were decent, 3rd period was a dud. Difficult to lose Gardiner who with Leverton are the Raiders top 2 pt leaders. I assume this means Stewart will remain a forward along with the addition of Messier. The Raiders are still short a 13th F and hopefully no further injuries develop with the F's. I wish Gardiner a speedy recovery.

Reviewing the WHL site I was interested to note that very few teams have more GF than GA in the league. Brandon - East Division (74,43). Tigers (72,18), Oil Kings (34,27), Hitmen (48,33) in Central Division. Everett (43,29), Tri-CIty (41,36) in U.S. Division. Kelowna (62,31), Kamloops (56,54) in B.C. Division. The average GF in the league (ES and PP) is about 44 for about 13 games played. The Raiders are at 32 GF at 12 games. The average GA in the league after 13 games played is also about 44 GA. The Raiders are at 39 GA after 12 games.

My question is this: "what should the Raiders do to improve there offensive capacity (GF) while not sacrificing their decent defensive capacity (GA)". It's obvious that its not good to be average in the area of GF because that isn't going to get you into a playoff spot. The Raiders have a long way to go before they reach the GF numbers of Brandon, Medicine Hat, and Kelowna. It should be noted that all 3 of these teams have decent GA as well.

We obviously have to wait until late Monday or Tuesday to learn Leon Draisaitl's fate (could be a good or bad birthday present to him). But what player movement would be acceptable to acquire skill on the front end that can put the puck in the net on a more regular basis. I believe the team has depth on D that would not significantly alter GA average. Lange, Morrissey, Warner, Stewart, Guhle? Do you move now or later? If later how much later?

[Landon]

Gardiner gets plastered from behind with a major gash to his forehead and possible concussion and every player on the ice pretends not to see it. Not one player come to his defence!!!!!!!!

BRUTAL is all I have to say.

[BigFanHockeyNut]

I can't remember if Warner was on the ice at the time. Looking at his stats in the USHL and this year, that can be the only reason he's with Raiders this year. If he was on the ice it should have been his job. Although, the best revenge for a dirty hit and a 5 min PP is to score as many goals as you can and win the game. But as you saw last night the Raiders can't score on a 5 min PP.

[RandyJackson]

The Raiders can't seem to score on any power play. The arrival of JM back from Winnipeg was supposed to boost our offensive output, especially on the power play, that he's supposed to quarterback. Instead, we can barely gain entry into the offensive zone - mostly because we're not moving the puck intelligently or efficiently through the neutral zone.

What I've noticed since JM has taken over the QB slot instead of Lange is that everyone is trying to get him the puck at absolutely any cost. I don't know if this is CC's agenda or if it's just the expectation the players naturally have of their captain. Either way, our guys aren't cycling well at all and are always looking for that open passing lane to Josh. Then as soon as he gets it he'll hang onto it, make stupid moves with the puck, try to do too much with it instead of hitting an open teammate, or take a useless shot from the perimeter and turn it over. Lange was doing an excellent job of getting into open shooting lanes in the absence of Josh and had the point production to prove it. Now he will give up a beautiful opportunity to blast the puck through an open shooting lane in exchange for a useless pass to a lesser positioned Morrissey.

We are in massive need of a forward who can hang onto the puck and cycle it on the PP, or else we need to get smarter and put pucks on net from smart locations, rather than firing shots into shin pads and making mindless passes and causing turnovers.

[Landon]

I can't remember if Warner was on the ice at the time. Looking at his stats in the USHL and this year, that can be the only reason he's with Raiders this year. If he was on the ice it should have been his job. Although, the best revenge for a dirty hit and a 5 min PP is to score as many goals as you can and win the game. But as you saw last night the Raiders can't score on a 5 min PP.

Warrener was not on the ice. Tkach, Levington, Gardiner, Andrlik and Lange who is supposed to be a leader. To me a good penalty is sticking up for a team mate laying on the ice bleeding.

[puckdad]

The players have to run the PP as scripted by CC. Every fan in the stands can see that if & when the PP is set up (And that's a big IF given the few times a clean zone entry is achieved) that the goal is to move it to the top for Josh to shoot. If Joe Average Fan can see that, do you think that opposing WHL-Calibre coaches cannot? Its not just Lange giving up open paths to the net to run a scripted play, its the whole unit. No individual creativity at all, just run the play as it was practiced, regardless of the effectiveness.

It's as if maintaining control of the players is the whole point of the Power Play, not scoring any more. You just know they'll get ripped when they return to the bench if they vary from what they're told to do. 5 minute PP following the loss of Gardiner, and in those 5 minutes, they got 2 SOG, yet passed up numerous opportunities to get shots to the net. Complete loss of any momentum that should have been built off the 5-min man advantage and leading up to the end of the game.

[puckdad]

Oh-oh
This does not look good tonight. Lethbridge is bad, but PA is horrible tonight. Boo'd by their own fans in the 2nd during a horrendous power play. Their uninspired play is actually causing their own fans to turn on them. 2 wins out of 5 home games. Hoping for even a spark of life in the 3rd.

[mill rat]

Oh-oh
This does not look good tonight. Lethbridge is bad, but PA is horrible tonight. Boo'd by their own fans in the 2nd during a horrendous power play. Their uninspired play is actually causing their own fans to turn on them. 2 wins out of 5 home games. Hoping for even a spark of life in the 3rd.

It was a horrendous display. Painful to watch. They don't have the stud centre they so sorely need. It's going to be a long year. They just can't compete even against poor teams.

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Congratulations to Leon Draisaitl on his 1st NHL goal - a game winner at that!

LD 9th game will be on his Birthday Monday against Montreal. Last night against Carolina he had 15:23 of ice time, 1 G, was +1 and had 4 shots on goal.Wednesday against Caps he had 13:39 of ice time, 1A was +1 and had 3 shots on goal. Previous Monday against Tampa Bay had 14:04 of ice time, 0 pts, was -2, and had 2 shots on goal.

My point is this. He is improving and developing, they are using him on the PP, he has points in his last 2 games and is getting some of the highest shot totals for Oilers forwards on a consistent basis. The Oilers have no farm depth at center and Gordon and Arcobello are their 3rd and 4th line centers who do not even come close to having LD's current skill and physicality and LD is years younger. The 10 game rule is not really the issue. The Oiler's have a ton of cap space and to burn a year of LD's entry level contract is not a big deal. The real key is the 39 game rule. If he plays in more than 39 games in his 1st year I believe that makes him eligible to become a RFA at the end of the 3 years where the Oiler's may have to compete to keep him.

I don't believe the Oiler's want him to come back to the WHL as the speed and compete level is not the same as the NHL. LD has proven himself at this level already and has nothing left to prove. He needs to stay in the NHL or higher league to continue to develop him. Look for Oiler's to keep him and be cognicent of 39 game rule. They may make trade for center depth and may make a decision on Leon at that time but it won't be for a while.

The Oilers didn't even want LD to come to Raider fall camp so he didn't. Think about how Josh must have felt slogging it out through camp prior to going to Jets camp.

The bottom line is this the Oiler's don't want him to come back to the WHL for his development, certainly not to a team that isn't in 1st place (think Brandon, Kelowna). I don't think he gets sent back but if he does, I'll bet the Oiler's ask the Raiders to move him to another team. Or they will ask/pay the Raiders to cancel transfer agreement and allow him to go back to Europe. Don't repsond back about rules etc. what the NHL wants the NHL gets period! I think he stays in NHL for months to come.

Which means Raiders had better start thinking about plan B. Because after tonights performance and a mini-BC/Alberta/Sask swing coming up, they are starting their annual Xmas collapse just a tad sooner than normal - uh oh. Player departures, coach departures, injuries and coach player coach coach issues are sinking this team and the Board is just letting the ship sink.

[Raider Believer]

Which means Raiders had better start thinking about plan B. Because after tonights performance and a mini-BC/Alberta/Sask swing coming up, they are starting their annual Xmas collapse just a tad sooner than normal - uh oh. Player departures, coach departures, injuries and coach player coach coach issues are sinking this team and the Board is just letting the ship sink.

This team, handpicked and built by Campese, is not good enough, and Campese isn't good enough, not even close. And the reality is: decent players don't want to be drafted here, and it is known that player's agents have nixed their clients being traded here. I know of one transaction just recently that would have left egg on Campese's face. Mediocrity and losing seems to satisfy some very staunch fans though ie. Kev.

[puckdad]

Clouston stated in the post-game interview after the anemic performance vs. Lethbridge that the team was really struggling to score.
Interestingly, Calder Brooks, the 20 YO that PA deemed expendable this year has 15 points in 12 games. The Raiders' leading scorers are Leverton & Gardiner, each with 10 points.

[puckdad]

Congratulations to Leon on sticking with the Oilers. What a great 19th birthday present. Not a great surprise to anyone who watched him play & develop over the last 2 years. Well deserved.

[Sttop]

Clouston stated in the post-game interview after the anemic performance vs. Lethbridge that the team was really struggling to score.
Interestingly, Calder Brooks, the 20 YO that PA deemed expendable this year has 15 points in 12 games. The Raiders' leading scorers are Leverton & Gardiner, each with 10 points.

As I understand it CC , BC , TL and Dave all had votes for the 3 overagers they wanted to keep when deciding. When it came down to the last spot CC used the final vote to keep Conroy over Brooks . so basically they decided to keep the 3 most valuable (trade wise ) . They then couldnt get anything for Danyluk or Perreaux . A local reporter has hinted because they were so unhappy playing here. And now the rumor is that Conroy wont report anywhere so that the Raiders cant get anything for him. I dont hate watching Messier and its not a shot against him but theres no comparing what Brooks brings to what Messier can.

[puckdad]

Wow! Clouston Gone.

[Raider Believer]

Wow! Clouston Gone.

Clouston may not have made everyone feel all warm and fuzzy, but he's had success in this league, unlike Campese. Coaches are only as good as their players. This is not a talented team. Who will Campese blame next? Oh ya, probably Derkatch, and I wouldn't disagree if Derkatch was given the proverbial boot. But who hired Clouston and Derkatch? It's time for the BOD to do what's right.

[Playerside]

Clouston may not have made everyone feel all warm and fuzzy, but he's had success in this league, unlike Campese. Coaches are only as good as their players. This is not a talented team. Who will Campese blame next? Oh ya, probably Derkatch, and I wouldn't disagree if Derkatch was given the proverbial boot. But who hired Clouston and Derkatch? It's time for the BOD to do what's right.

I dont believe that players were ever looking for warm and fuzzy but defininetly some respect which in turn brings confidence and leadership ability. ...and players are only as good as their coaches.

[Dwight Schrute]

One down. campese hopefully is next.

[Wildeyes]

So who do you think is next as coach

Steve Young, Lorne Molleken, Dan Byslma, Craig Bedard, Wade Klippenstien, Peter Anholt


Or maybe some we have not heard of.

[Raider Believer]

I dont believe that players were ever looking for warm and fuzzy but defininetly some respect which in turn brings confidence and leadership ability. ...and players are only as good as their coaches.

After reviewing your previous postings, I get that you don't like Clouston. But let me ask ... who hired him? Who sets the tone and culture on a team?
I'm not unhappy that Clouston is gone. I too am tired of old school coaches and GMs who think the players are to be treated like cattle and pay their dues, whatever the hell that means. Campese is a prime example of this attitude. My argument is that although both these guys have zero people skills and are nasty pieces of work, at least Clouston is a hockey guy with some track record of success at this level. Campese seems to have grabbed onto that Survivor Immunity Idol that he bestowed on Brock Balson a few seasons ago - and is doing his sneaky best to hold onto his job; with one hand pointing fingers at everyone else, and with the other hand stirring the koolaid that obviously the BOD has been drinking in copious amounts!

[RandyJackson]

Are we actually defending Clouston over the players right now?! This is ridiculous, you guys. This is the reason that he's stuck around the damn league so long and caused absolute chaos everywhere he's been. It's not a coincidence - he's terrible to his players and personnel and no one wants to play for him or robotically enact his talent-obstructing systems that have absolutely no chance of producing success in this caliber of a league. You need to know when to step back and let the talent do the talking.

I know that the 20 y/o conflict caused issues at the beginning of the year, but the reality of it is that we lost 4-5 players who could have led our team this year because they weren't willing to put up with his crap for another season. I'm not saying that Campese is innocent in this situation either; he's definitely next on the hit list. But to place all of the blame on the players is insane. Clouston has coached all of the creativity out of them, and anyone who deviates from that system gets punished. And Campese has continually made terrible decisions that have completely ruined any chemistry in the locker room. These kids are 16-20 years old. You can't treat them like crap and expect them to step to the plate and play hard for you every night. You need to respect these kids if they're going to respect you and respect each other. Leadership breeds leadership, and right now we have none of it on either side of the bench - other than Manson.

[Raider Believer]

So who do you think is next as coach

Steve Young, Lorne Molleken, Dan Byslma, Craig Bedard, Wade Klippenstien, Peter Anholt


Or maybe some we have not heard of.

Whoever it is had better have something in writing that says Campese is gone in relatively short order or they will be left holding the proverbial bag, much like Young & Clouston.


My suggestion for a coach/manager: Jesse Wallin
Odds of this happening, not good. The BOD is as dumb as a bag of hammers and drinking too much of that Campese home brewed koolaid

[puckdad]

What about Dave Struch? Got the most out of a gutted Blades lineup last year & stayed positive the whole time. He might have a clause in his contract with Regina that allows him to accept a Head Coach position.

[Raider Believer]

Are we actually defending Clouston over the players right now?! This is ridiculous, you guys. This is the reason that he's stuck around the damn league so long and caused absolute chaos everywhere he's been. It's not a coincidence - he's terrible to his players and personnel and no one wants to play for him or robotically enact his talent-obstructing systems that have absolutely no chance of producing success in this caliber of a league. You need to know when to step back and let the talent do the talking.

I know that the 20 y/o conflict caused issues at the beginning of the year, but the reality of it is that we lost 4-5 players who could have led our team this year because they weren't willing to put up with his crap for another season. I'm not saying that Campese is innocent in this situation either; he's definitely next on the hit list. But to place all of the blame on the players is insane. Clouston has coached all of the creativity out of them, and anyone who deviates from that system gets punished. And Campese has continually made terrible decisions that have completely ruined any chemistry in the locker room. These kids are 16-20 years old. You can't treat them like crap and expect them to step to the plate and play hard for you every night. You need to respect these kids if they're going to respect you and respect each other. Leadership breeds leadership, and right now we have none of it on either side of the bench - other than Manson.

No I'm not defending Clouston over the players RJ. I'm saying that the players are just not that good collectively, although I have no doubt as to their characters and good citizenship. It is not their fault that Bruno and his buddy Derkatch have not drafted well over the last few years. Successful seasons are the litmus test for how well you did in the drafts. We haven't had much success in recent years. The players definitely deserve respect, care and pats on the back for good effort. I am guessing that Dave Manson might be behind the bench for a while, and I'm sure the players will enjoy him more than Clouston, but the pot is still soured by the stink of Campese overseeing the organization. Time to remove the stink.

[Wildeyes]

I forgot that Jesse Wallin was still out there.

Dave would be a good fit as well

[radrguy]

Bring back Kevin McClelland...I wish.

[Landon]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The Raiders need a total overhaul from front office to the stick boy IMO. The Board finally made a smart decision in letting Clouston walk and hopefully this is just the beginning. As a raider fan for 42 years I don't want to see the raiders make playoffs on a tie breaker or sneaking in 8th spot. I don't want to waste anymore time to go watch a bad product. The Board and GM need a players coach that is dedicated to supporting these "KIDS" in good and bad situations and to develop "ALL" of them.

[puckdad]

Congratulations to Dave Manson on his 1st WHL Head Coaching win. It was nice to see the team play with some desire & enthusiasm. Kind of like a weight is off hteir backs. Coming back to win after going down 2-0 early is going to be a huge character-builder. Let's hope they keep it up tomorrow night!

[Raider Fan]

Does anyone know what is happening with Reid Gardner? Will he be in the line up against the Blades tomorrow night?
Good job on win tonight!

[Sttop]

Congratulations to Dave Manson on his 1st WHL Head Coaching win. It was nice to see the team play with some desire & enthusiasm. Kind of like a weight is off hteir backs. Coming back to win after going down 2-0 early is going to be a huge character-builder. Let's hope they keep it up tomorrow night!

I have been trying to get a "like" button . Big Steel deserves a lot of credit . Everything he does on the ice is for the team. Nice having 2 good goaltenders too

[puckdad]

Nice to see all 4 lines used & contributing. 3rd & 4th lines and 5 & 6 D used on the PP in the 3rd period. They'll play their asses off for Dave if they keep getting some recognition & respect for playing well. Plus, the top guys won't be as bagged for tonights game.

[Raiderfan8]

Great job on the team win last night ! Looking forward to hearing who the new coach is going to be in the up coming days. After do some looking I don't think Lorne Molleken would be a bad pick. Saskatchewan guy , had success making the playoffs consistently with the Blades. Only knock against him is he hasn't won a championship. From my understanding Lorne is great with the players and community. Obviously there is not much out there but Jesse Wallin may be good as well. Does anyone know if there's a connection between Manson and Molleken from there time in Chicago?

[Raiderfan8]

Great job on the team win last night ! Looking forward to hearing who the new coach is going to be in the up coming days. After do some looking I don't think Lorne Molleken would be a bad pick. Saskatchewan guy , had success making the playoffs consistently with the Blades. Only knock against him is he hasn't won a championship. From my understanding Lorne is great with the players and community. Obviously there is not much out there but Jesse Wallin may be good as well. Does anyone know if there's a connection between Manson and Molleken from there time in Chicago?

I will answer my own question. Dave was coached by Molleken for two years in Chicago.

[sbtatter]

Twitter rumor has Malcom Cameron heading to PA, is that plausible? Why not give Manson a chance?

[Sttop]

Manson is basically doing the Raiders a favor as assist coach , he has no interest in the extra work or time

[Playerside]

After reviewing your previous postings, I get that you don't like Clouston. But let me ask ... who hired him? Who sets the tone and culture on a team?
I'm not unhappy that Clouston is gone. I too am tired of old school coaches and GMs who think the players are to be treated like cattle and pay their dues, whatever the hell that means. Campese is a prime example of this attitude. My argument is that although both these guys have zero people skills and are nasty pieces of work, at least Clouston is a hockey guy with some track record of success at this level. Campese seems to have grabbed onto that Survivor Immunity Idol that he bestowed on Brock Balson a few seasons ago - and is doing his sneaky best to hold onto his job; with one hand pointing fingers at everyone else, and with the other hand stirring the koolaid that obviously the BOD has been drinking in copious amounts!
I believe the BDO hired Clouston, which may have tied Campese's hands in firing him. I have no regard for either Campese or Clouston.
Clouston may be viewed as a 'hockey guy' with some success, but he also has a track record of failure. He ran the ship aground. His arrogance and inability to point his finger at the real problem had players expending all their energy either running from the bus or buying one way tickets as far away from 'hockey guy' as they could get.
Time these players are allowed to find their voice as a team and not Cloustons soldiers..

[Dwight Schrute]

Habschied ? Hmm

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Marc Habscheid is the new Raiders coach. What do people think?

[Raiderfan8]

Love it! Players coach , developed a lot of NHLer's when in Kelowna and Saskatchewan Born.

[radrguy]

This is very good news.

[SectionNDeserter]

He has a 0.463 record in his last 216 games coaching in the WHL. He has a lot of coaching experience, but does he have what it takes anymore?

[Madmax]

Was actually hoping the Blades would hire Marc last summer. This guy knows how to develop players and let them use the talents they have. Is also a great communicator. Players will go through a wall for this guy. Difference of night and day to Clouston. Great move by the Raiders.

[Raider Believer]

He has a 0.463 record in his last 216 games coaching in the WHL. He has a lot of coaching experience, but does he have what it takes anymore?

Habscheid is a very good friend of Campese. Kev can take the time to check out how many sweetheart deals the two of them did when Habscheid was running Chilliwack & Victoria. There were lots. Habscheid is good when he has a GM/Head Scout like Lorne Frey of Kelowna finding him outstanding players and running a good organization. Kelowna was the only place where Habscheid had sustained success. Campese is no Bruce Hamilton or Lorne Frey. This was a Campese hire. And just for the record, he is NOT a players coach.

[Dwight Schrute]

Habscheid is a very good friend of Campese. Kev can take the time to check out how many sweetheart deals the two of them did when Habscheid was running Chilliwack & Victoria. There were lots. Habscheid is good when he has a GM/Head Scout like Lorne Frey of Kelowna finding him outstanding players and running a good organization. Kelowna was the only place where Habscheid had sustained success. Campese is no Bruce Hamilton or Lorne Frey. This was a Campese hire. And just for the record, he is NOT a players coach.
Well this is concerning
Sigh........
See how this plays out I guess

[Raiderfan8]

Habscheid is a very good friend of Campese. Kev can take the time to check out how many sweetheart deals the two of them did when Habscheid was running Chilliwack & Victoria. There were lots. Habscheid is good when he has a GM/Head Scout like Lorne Frey of Kelowna finding him outstanding players and running a good organization. Kelowna was the only place where Habscheid had sustained success. Campese is no Bruce Hamilton or Lorne Frey. This was a Campese hire. And just for the record, he is NOT a players coach.

Of course this was Campese's hire he is the general manager of the hockey club. I spoke with Kelly Guard this afternoon and he advised that Habscheid was a players coach and great motivator during his time in Kelowna. Has something changed that he is not a players coach any more? What record or reference are you referring to? . After listening to the post game show tonight , Habscheid stated himself that everyone has to be involved in this if the team is to have success. He stated all players, coaching staff, billets, parents and fans. Obviously this is day one but for things to change around here attitudes need to change. Hopefully this is the first step .

[Sttop]

Habscheid is a very good friend of Campese. Kev can take the time to check out how many sweetheart deals the two of them did when Habscheid was running Chilliwack & Victoria. There were lots. Habscheid is good when he has a GM/Head Scout like Lorne Frey of Kelowna finding him outstanding players and running a good organization. Kelowna was the only place where Habscheid had sustained success. Campese is no Bruce Hamilton or Lorne Frey. This was a Campese hire. And just for the record, he is NOT a players coach.

Campese had nothing to do with the hiring of Habschied. Take that for what its worth. I would imagine that Bruno already has his application out because he can see that this is a role reversal of him 7 years ago only this time he is playing the role of Don Clarke.

[Raider Believer]

Campese had nothing to do with the hiring of Habschied. Take that for what its worth. I would imagine that Bruno already has his application out because he can see that this is a role reversal of him 7 years ago only this time he is playing the role of Don Clarke.

I sure hope you are right!

[bigjimmer]

For the record, this was a BOD hire, and now makes me want nothing more than this board to be completely removed/voted out next AGM. Habscheid had his day in the sun, had success in Kelowna and as one previous poster alluded to, he had success because of scouting and player talent.

Look to Boston, players could not stomach him or Dave Lewis and Chirelli made the move to fire the two of them an pay them out 2.5 years of their contracts rather than have them at the helm. Look to Victoria, where players were walking out, parents outraged and how their sons were being treated and ownership forced to remove him from both the HC and GM positions. Habscheid is hard on players and the furthest thing from a Player's coach, Guard simply did what any employee would do and that was speak highly of their new boss.

If you think players and assistant coaches hated playing/working for Clouston, Campese had better have an extra phone line installed because there will be a mass exodus of players wanting out and demanding trades as soon as the team starts loosing two or three. As for experience, really its no different and actually worse than Clouston's. Clouston was a HC at the NHL and AHL levels, Habscheid didn't last all that long as an AC in the NHL, was a figure head at Hockey Canada and did nothing in Chilliwack/Victoria other than chase players away.

The Board simply knows that Campese is all but done, so to save money they bring in a guy who on paper can do both jobs. Now, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope they can change but this is now a young person's game dealing with players that aren't as mentally strong as years ago and players who don't do well with yelling and negative tactics. The board should have hired a young person's coach, someone who gets today's players, knows the analytics side of the game, whether you like it or not, they are now part of the game. Then, bring in a proven asst. GM who knows the draft, knows how to recruit and has wide connections in the league. We have now just repeated ourselves and proved to the fan base that we have learned nothing from the last 7 seasons and are content with mediocrity.

To another point, move Moriessy already, he doesn't have what it takes to be an NHL player, his mental toughness is weak, his drive is low and his want to win is hot and cold. Deal him sooner rather than later and get what you can out of him while some GM's are dumb enough to give the farm on him. Many GM's I know of think the same way as I do on him and think he's nothing more than a 2nd line starter for a long AHL career.

[Raider Believer]

For the record, this was a BOD hire, and now makes me want nothing more than this board to be completely removed/voted out next AGM. Habscheid had his day in the sun, had success in Kelowna and as one previous poster alluded to, he had success because of scouting and player talent.

Look to Boston, players could not stomach him or Dave Lewis and Chirelli made the move to fire the two of them an pay them out 2.5 years of their contracts rather than have them at the helm. Look to Victoria, where players were walking out, parents outraged and how their sons were being treated and ownership forced to remove him from both the HC and GM positions. Habscheid is hard on players and the furthest thing from a Player's coach, Guard simply did what any employee would do and that was speak highly of their new boss.

If you think players and assistant coaches hated playing/working for Clouston, Campese had better have an extra phone line installed because there will be a mass exodus of players wanting out and demanding trades as soon as the team starts loosing two or three. As for experience, really its no different and actually worse than Clouston's. Clouston was a HC at the NHL and AHL levels, Habscheid didn't last all that long as an AC in the NHL, was a figure head at Hockey Canada and did nothing in Chilliwack/Victoria other than chase players away.

The Board simply knows that Campese is all but done, so to save money they bring in a guy who on paper can do both jobs. Now, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope they can change but this is now a young person's game dealing with players that aren't as mentally strong as years ago and players who don't do well with yelling and negative tactics. The board should have hired a young person's coach, someone who gets today's players, knows the analytics side of the game, whether you like it or not, they are now part of the game. Then, bring in a proven asst. GM who knows the draft, knows how to recruit and has wide connections in the league. We have now just repeated ourselves and proved to the fan base that we have learned nothing from the last 7 seasons and are content with mediocrity.

To another point, move Moriessy already, he doesn't have what it takes to be an NHL player, his mental toughness is weak, his drive is low and his want to win is hot and cold. Deal him sooner rather than later and get what you can out of him while some GM's are dumb enough to give the farm on him. Many GM's I know of think the same way as I do on him and think he's nothing more than a 2nd line starter for a long AHL career.

You are 100% correct on every point you made!

[Madmax]

For the record, this was a BOD hire, and now makes me want nothing more than this board to be completely removed/voted out next AGM. Habscheid had his day in the sun, had success in Kelowna and as one previous poster alluded to, he had success because of scouting and player talent.

Look to Boston, players could not stomach him or Dave Lewis and Chirelli made the move to fire the two of them an pay them out 2.5 years of their contracts rather than have them at the helm. Look to Victoria, where players were walking out, parents outraged and how their sons were being treated and ownership forced to remove him from both the HC and GM positions. Habscheid is hard on players and the furthest thing from a Player's coach, Guard simply did what any employee would do and that was speak highly of their new boss.

If you think players and assistant coaches hated playing/working for Clouston, Campese had better have an extra phone line installed because there will be a mass exodus of players wanting out and demanding trades as soon as the team starts loosing two or three. As for experience, really its no different and actually worse than Clouston's. Clouston was a HC at the NHL and AHL levels, Habscheid didn't last all that long as an AC in the NHL, was a figure head at Hockey Canada and did nothing in Chilliwack/Victoria other than chase players away.

The Board simply knows that Campese is all but done, so to save money they bring in a guy who on paper can do both jobs. Now, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope they can change but this is now a young person's game dealing with players that aren't as mentally strong as years ago and players who don't do well with yelling and negative tactics. The board should have hired a young person's coach, someone who gets today's players, knows the analytics side of the game, whether you like it or not, they are now part of the game. Then, bring in a proven asst. GM who knows the draft, knows how to recruit and has wide connections in the league. We have now just repeated ourselves and proved to the fan base that we have learned nothing from the last 7 seasons and are content with mediocrity.

To another point, move Moriessy already, he doesn't have what it takes to be an NHL player, his mental toughness is weak, his drive is low and his want to win is hot and cold. Deal him sooner rather than later and get what you can out of him while some GM's are dumb enough to give the farm on him. Many GM's I know of think the same way as I do on him and think he's nothing more than a 2nd line starter for a long AHL career.

First time ever I have seen a coach get slammed for winning because he had good scouting and talented players. LMFAO, Is it supposed to work some other way?

[Playerside]

If one believes only the avid fan posts here and players aren't reading all the negativity very mistaken. Maybe allow the players time to exhale their sigh of relief before having them dreading another day at the rink. They have done this long enough.

[RandyJackson]

To another point, move Moriessy already, he doesn't have what it takes to be an NHL player, his mental toughness is weak, his drive is low and his want to win is hot and cold. Deal him sooner rather than later and get what you can out of him while some GM's are dumb enough to give the farm on him. Many GM's I know of think the same way as I do on him and think he's nothing more than a 2nd line starter for a long AHL career.

Strongly agree with most of this statement. Morrissey seems to have returned with a very high sense of entitlement this year and his lack of two-way work ethic has really illustrated this - watch Saskatoon's second goal from Saturday night's game if you need proof. The kid's a great player, but if you're not ready to play in the show you're not ready. And I agree with Winnipeg's decision to return him to PA. He was beaten badly a number of times in the games he played with the Jets.

I wouldn't go so far as to say he's going to linger in the AHL for his entire career, but he's certainly not ready for the leap yet, and won't be for some time if he doesn't strengthen his mental toughness and adjust his attitude. Hopefully this coaching change is what he, and the rest of the team, needs in order to start enjoying being a player in the WHL again.

[RandyJackson]

If one believes only the avid fan posts here and players aren't reading all the negativity very mistaken. Maybe allow the players time to exhale their sigh of relief before having them dreading another day at the rink. They have done this long enough.

Agreed. It's like if you were a celebrity with a twitter account - of course you're going to go and read the comments about you.

I think some of us are pegging the new HC as a villain WAY too early here. Perhaps the man has somewhat of a history of being firm on players, but that was ten years ago now. He's been away from the league for quite some time now. I hope that what he has said in the after show wasn't just a facade and some act to try and win over the fan base, but like I said, WAY too early to be picketing already. He was smiling and having a good time on the bench on Saturday, let the fellas do their thing and showcase creativity, and was overall just a breath of fresh air in his interview. Look at Stransky, for example. Here's a kid who has the speed, shiftiness, and hands to be a top 6 forward, and he's been crammed into a checking role who sometimes only gets 3-4 shifts a game under Clouston. Break the talent-sucking systems and give him a chance to show his talent and he's dangling all over the ice.

I really feel like Habscheid has read the room well thus far and is going to ease up on the reigns from where we were with Clouston. And if some of these guys - like Stransky, Quinney, and Gennaro - are put into positions to excel then I really think we have a team that will be exciting to watch.

[puckdad]

The guy has only been in PA for a day & already getting crucified. We shouldn't be so quick to tar & feather him. I certainly saw a lot of positives over his predecessor, even though its only been 1 game and against a rebuilding & injury-riddled Blades team. The atmosphere in the AHC & Ches Leach room was more relaxed & positive. The awkward brittle tension that Clouston seemed to radiate was gone & in Habscheid's post-game interview he said all the right things to win the crowd & media over. Not the same old song & dance about X's & O's and "Structure" & "Systems". I'm cautiously optimistic that this will be a good thing for the team. He brings a lot of positives to the the Raiders:
-Former Player, both in this league & the show,so he knows the player's perspective.
-Saskatchewan guy, from a smaller Sask. city that has a community-owned, BOD-run team. He knows what a tough situation that puts a coach or GM in.
-Has had success as a coach in the league, including playoffs & winning a Championship.
-Has had Pro experience as a coach - I don't know the circumstances of his tenure in Boston, but we all know that every coach, even the very best, has been fired or not been renewed at least once in their career. It's a fact of life in coaching that at some time, you will be fired.
-Correctly read the tense atmosphere in the dressing room that was screaming for a lighter-handed, less controlling approach.

Give him a chance to put his stamp on the team. He may get the most out of a team that has less talent than last year's.

[puckdad]

To another point, move Moriessy already, he doesn't have what it takes to be an NHL player, his mental toughness is weak, his drive is low and his want to win is hot and cold. Deal him sooner rather than later and get what you can out of him while some GM's are dumb enough to give the farm on him. Many GM's I know of think the same way as I do on him and think he's nothing more than a 2nd line starter for a long AHL career.[/QUOTE]

Can we lighten up on this kid, too? IMO he's been one of the best players & captains that we've had for a long time.

Talented, articulate, respected in the dressing and good in the community. He's done everything that's been asked of him, including being the poster-boy for the team for the last few years.

He's probably played 120 games last year, when you factor in preseason, regular season, Subway Series Games, World Junior Games, and Playoffs with St. John's that went all the way to Game 7 of the league final. That's more games than a mature Pro player will play in a year. Plus all the associated travel, and being asked to perform at a high level in each of those games. Think of how tired the ordinary traveller feels after returning from a holiday where they didn't have to leave it all on the ice wherever they vacationed.

Factor in that once he left PA, he likely lived on his own, out of his hotel room, with no family or billet family support. When I was 19, I could cook toast and make Kraft Dinner, but had to phone home for instructions on how to boil an egg.

He's 19 years old, very understandably disappointed in being sent back to Junior. He really only had one "Pro - Hangover" game, and that was in Saskatoon, and I'll admit that I ran him down for it on this forum. Since then, he has, for the most part, sucked it up and played well for the team. He's also addressed the ongoing tensions on the team associated with the recent coaching change. It's kind of difficult to do when you know you've got your ticket punched to be out of town in the near future.

My point is, I'm surprised that anyone questions his "mental toughness". I think that just to survive his last season, he's shown mental toughness beyond his years.

We'll likely only have the opportunity to watch him play for our team for another 18 games, only 7 of which are home games, since you know there are teams who are looking to add that missing piece to their own lineup. And he deserves to have an opportunity to play for a contender in the last 1/2 of his final WHL career. I'm just sorry that the contender will not be the Raiders.

[Wildeyes]

give morrisey time he goes from making 900,000 a yr in the peg to making 250 a month here of course he will take it tough wouldnt you.

[Raiderfan8]

http://www.whl.ca/article/morrissey-dennys-whl-player-of-the-week

[SectionNDeserter]

Can we lighten up on this kid, too? IMO he's been one of the best players & captains that we've had for a long time.I agree. He has 11 points in 12 games, and is one of, if not the best offensive defenseman in the league.


To another point, move Moriessy already, he doesn't have what it takes to be an NHL playerAnd since when does a player's future in the NHL have anything at all to do with their value to their WHL team? If anything, (if your prediction is correct) this just increases the Raiders' chances of keeping a 70+ point defenseman as an overage player.

[BigFanHockeyNut]

The decision on Morrissey is really a hockey business one. Every once and a while whether due to good draft position, dumb luck or good scouting (or a combination of all three) a team is lucky enough to have a player of Morrissey's caliber come along.

Every team then faces the decision: do we keep the asset in hopes for making a difference in on-ice play (playoff run, championship etc.) OR do we capitalize on a return of our asset (young proven players or draft picks).

Josh Morrissey will not be back as an over-ager next year. He will be in the NHL or the AHL. Which of these 2 levels he achieves I will leave for people to debate.

His on-ice value to the Raiders is for THIS YEAR ONLY. I believe the Raiders will battle for a playoff spot but will not be going into the 2nd or 3rd rounds. SO really he has no on-ice value (particularly since he would only be with the Raiders for a little while longer because of WJHC etc).

SO to keep him past the trade deadline would be be a horrible team and management decision akin to turning down shares in Apple back in the early 80's.

The real question is: is Josh's value worth more now than at the trade deadline?

Certainly for teams like Brandon and Kelowna who are having success early on they probably don't need help or his value would be less to these teams. But to a team that should make a run in the playoffs and is under performing the addition of a player like Josh now could have huge dividends in terms of improving that teams finishing position for playoff match ups. Josh's value would be more to those teams.

The other factor to consider is injury (knock on wood). If Josh were to sustain an injury in the next month if he stays with Raiders - the value of the asset is zippo, zero.....

As well, if you trade him at trade deadline he is nothing more than a rental player and teams may not be willing to pay that much. If you trade him now he can contribute somewhat more to a team and his value may be worth more.

The Raiders should be able to get 1-2 quality, proven 97 F's and 1-2 high picks depending on the deal and who is thrown in with Josh. This would help them now and the immediate future as well as recouping the lost pick in Kryski.

The team also has 2 other assets they can move: 1) Dakota Conroy who is significantly better than many 20's currently on many teams and 2) the rights to Leon Draisaitl. EDM did not want to send him back now (particularly to PA) but may send him back to WHL before 40 game mark if his rights were held by a quality team.

The Raiders could end up in really good shape if they make some good hockey decisions.

As far as Habscheid goes he is a good hockey mind and coach. There were some significant issues in Victoria but he has had some time to reflect and I believe has changed his approach.

[Sttop]

Its not rocket science , but the reality of it is the Raiders have done a horrible job getting returns on assets. If the team is not finishing better then 8th you need to get rid of any assets you are going to loose and get a return on them. We have not won a playoff series in the 7 years Bruno has been here . And in that time we have lost the following with no return
Justin Bernhardt
Ryan Mcdonald
Nathan Deck
Jordan Rowley
Jon Parker
Tochkin
Corbin
Ruopp
Mcneill
Bardaro
Maylan
Conroy
Draisaitl

[Dwight Schrute]

Its not rocket science , but the reality of it is the Raiders have done a horrible job getting returns on assets. If the team is not finishing better then 8th you need to get rid of any assets you are going to loose and get a return on them. We have not won a playoff series in the 7 years Bruno has been here . And in that time we have lost the following with no return
Justin Bernhardt
Ryan Mcdonald
Nathan Deck
Jordan Rowley
Jon Parker
Tochkin
Corbin
Ruopp
Mcneill
Bardaro
Maylan
Conroy
Draisaitl
I agree. The one thing not mentioned is money. The raiders might need the first rounder development Money morrisey brings. I hope that's not a deciding factor.

[RandyJackson]

Fair enough. Perhaps I've been too tough on JM. It can't be easy leaving a pro environment in order to rejoin the chaos that was the Raiders' organization under Clouston. Here's to hoping that Habscheid turns these kids around.

[raiderfan]

Its not rocket science , but the reality of it is the Raiders have done a horrible job getting returns on assets. If the team is not finishing better then 8th you need to get rid of any assets you are going to loose and get a return on them. We have not won a playoff series in the 7 years Bruno has been here . And in that time we have lost the following with no return
Justin Bernhardt
Ryan Mcdonald
Nathan Deck
Jordan Rowley
Jon Parker
Tochkin
Corbin
Ruopp
Mcneill
Bardaro
Maylan
Conroy
Draisaitl

So now we can see why it is a good thing some people on here have no influence on the Raiders' decision regarding players. Trading assests? Bruno has his faults, but the list you put together is a little ridiculous. Some of the people you wanted to get rid of would have meant no playoffs in those years.

Let's do some analysis:

The 20 year olds, which are hard to trade in a league with a maximum. Not only does it need to be a really good player, they need to be better than at least one of the three most experienced players on your team.

Justin Bernhardt -Was the leading scorer on a team that didn't make the playoffs when he was a 20-year-old. Might have been gotten a decent (maybe a 2nd round pick) at the deadline from a team that needed some power play help, but would have been a tough trade to make. People would have blamed the trade for missing the playoffs (which they did anyway). They acquired him the year previous, so unless you flipped him quick to his 4th WHL team I'm not sure what you would have wanted to do with him.

Ryan Mcdonald -Like Barnhardt, was a 20-year-old on a non-playoff team. Was second in scoring (37-26-63). And like Barnhardt you make a case for trying to get something for him, but was likely worth less in trade than Barnhardt.

Nathan Deck - Spent 4 years with the Raiders. As 20-year-old had some injuries and a disappointing season offensively (2-16-18 in 60 games), after putting up 37 and 38 points the two previous years. Was a smaller defenceman who still logged a lot of ice time. Wasn't a difference-making 20-year-old so difficult to trade. I'm sure everyone, including him, thought he'd be better offensively. Return would have been very low at the deadline.

Jordan Rowley- Like Deck, had injury problems (only 55 games) and didn't score as much (5-23-28) as expected in his last year. Could have been traded as a 19-year-old when he had 50 points on the season, but would there have been criticism if he wasn't around and they missed the playoffs in that 2010-2011 season?

Antoine Corbin - left the team after the first two games of the 2013-2014 season, would have been a 20-year-old. Had two of his best games with Raiders before signing a pro deal and playing (very little) in the minors. Was 12-13-25 as a 19-yea-old. Unlikely to have gotten much value as a 19-year-old in the trade market.

Anthony Bardaro - Was 3rd on the team in scoring as a 20-year-old (25-32-57) to help the Raiders make the playoffs. This was a major drop off after 36 goals split between P.A. and Spokane the previous year. Not sure he had much value as a 20-year-old. They picked him up at the deadline when he was 19.

Justin Maylan - Led the team in scoring (26-63-89) as 20 year old in 2011-2012. Was also one of the team's top scorers the previous year (21-48-69). Might have gotten a decent return as a 20-year-old on a team needing a play maker, but dealing him would have left a big hole in the offence for a team that didn't make the playoffs. Likely trade value was maybe a middle of the road prospect and mid-round pick.

Kellan Tochkin - He was a 20-year-old the Raiders acquired at the trade deadline in the 2011-12 season. Should they have flipped him for other assets? Including him in your list shows a complete lack of knowledge of who these players are or when they joined the team. Got hurt late in the year.

Dakota Conroy - quit on his team after 10 games, had one 30-goal season playing on a line with Leon Draisaitl, and cost the team a 6th or 7th round pick to acquire. There was no one willing to give up more than that for him. Should have kept Calder Brooks and let Conroy go for nothing. Hard to blame Bruno for not getting something for him.

The rest of the players left the team before their 20-year-old season:

Jonathan Parker - signed with the Buffalo Sabres organization after a solid 19-year-old season where he led the team in scoring (45-41-86) and was a key player in getting them into the playoffs. If he was traded, they likely don't replace his scoring and don't make the playoffs. By the way, the 45 goals were a career high by 32. He might have gotten something as 20 year old coming back, but unlikely more than a 2nd-tier prospect and/or 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Harrison Ruopp - Was the best shutdown defenceman on a team that was in 1st place in their division at the trade deadline. Trading him at the deadline and missing the playoffs would have meant a lot more criticism for the GM.

Mark McNeil - Led the team in scoring (25-42-67) in 65 games for a team that was in first in the East Division at the trade deadline of his 19-year-old season. As much as he was criticized, the Raiders collapse and barely making the playoffs that season were not all on him. Trading him at the deadline and missing the playoffs would have meant a lot more criticism for the GM.

Leon Draisaitl - Really? You would have traded him last year? You should almost be banned from all message boards for making that suggestion. If he comes back this year (extremely unlikely) then consider it.

Bruno has not produced results that give any confidence he can build a championship team. I think he is better GM than a coach. The talent level when he got here was brutal. The few big players were very slow, and the smaller players made up for it by being almost as slow. Bruno has made to many panic trades (Cheveldave, Johnston last year, Vanscourt, Burns in 2011-2012).

You can make a solid case that he shouldn't be back after this season, but to use the reason that he didn't get "value" for players before they leave the league means you would trade anyone once they hit 19 because they might not come back.

See where the season is going, and what people might offer for Morrissey before you deal him. Don't take the first offer unless it knocks your socks off. Otherwise, relax and enjoy watching one of the most skilled puck handling defencemen in Raiders' history.

[Sttop]

you trade those guys to add to the future years ..why keep all your good players when they are leaving and the team isnt going anywhere?

[Dwight Schrute]

you trade those guys to add to the future years ..why keep all your good players when they are leaving and the team isnt going anywhere?

Thinking like aj Thelan deal ?

[Sttop]

So now we can see why it is a good thing some people on here have no influence on the Raiders' decision regarding players. Trading assests? Bruno has his faults, but the list you put together is a little ridiculous. Some of the people you wanted to get rid of would have meant no playoffs in those years.

Let's do some analysis:

The 20 year olds, which are hard to trade in a league with a maximum. Not only does it need to be a really good player, they need to be better than at least one of the three most experienced players on your team.

Justin Bernhardt -Was the leading scorer on a team that didn't make the playoffs when he was a 20-year-old. Might have been gotten a decent (maybe a 2nd round pick) at the deadline from a team that needed some power play help, but would have been a tough trade to make. People would have blamed the trade for missing the playoffs (which they did anyway). They acquired him the year previous, so unless you flipped him quick to his 4th WHL team I'm not sure what you would have wanted to do with him.

Ryan Mcdonald -Like Barnhardt, was a 20-year-old on a non-playoff team. Was second in scoring (37-26-63). And like Barnhardt you make a case for trying to get something for him, but was likely worth less in trade than Barnhardt.

Nathan Deck - Spent 4 years with the Raiders. As 20-year-old had some injuries and a disappointing season offensively (2-16-18 in 60 games), after putting up 37 and 38 points the two previous years. Was a smaller defenceman who still logged a lot of ice time. Wasn't a difference-making 20-year-old so difficult to trade. I'm sure everyone, including him, thought he'd be better offensively. Return would have been very low at the deadline.

Jordan Rowley- Like Deck, had injury problems (only 55 games) and didn't score as much (5-23-28) as expected in his last year. Could have been traded as a 19-year-old when he had 50 points on the season, but would there have been criticism if he wasn't around and they missed the playoffs in that 2010-2011 season?

Antoine Corbin - left the team after the first two games of the 2013-2014 season, would have been a 20-year-old. Had two of his best games with Raiders before signing a pro deal and playing (very little) in the minors. Was 12-13-25 as a 19-yea-old. Unlikely to have gotten much value as a 19-year-old in the trade market.

Anthony Bardaro - Was 3rd on the team in scoring as a 20-year-old (25-32-57) to help the Raiders make the playoffs. This was a major drop off after 36 goals split between P.A. and Spokane the previous year. Not sure he had much value as a 20-year-old. They picked him up at the deadline when he was 19.

Justin Maylan - Led the team in scoring (26-63-89) as 20 year old in 2011-2012. Was also one of the team's top scorers the previous year (21-48-69). Might have gotten a decent return as a 20-year-old on a team needing a play maker, but dealing him would have left a big hole in the offence for a team that didn't make the playoffs. Likely trade value was maybe a middle of the road prospect and mid-round pick.

Kellan Tochkin - He was a 20-year-old the Raiders acquired at the trade deadline in the 2011-12 season. Should they have flipped him for other assets? Including him in your list shows a complete lack of knowledge of who these players are or when they joined the team. Got hurt late in the year.

Dakota Conroy - quit on his team after 10 games, had one 30-goal season playing on a line with Leon Draisaitl, and cost the team a 6th or 7th round pick to acquire. There was no one willing to give up more than that for him. Should have kept Calder Brooks and let Conroy go for nothing. Hard to blame Bruno for not getting something for him.

The rest of the players left the team before their 20-year-old season:

Jonathan Parker - signed with the Buffalo Sabres organization after a solid 19-year-old season where he led the team in scoring (45-41-86) and was a key player in getting them into the playoffs. If he was traded, they likely don't replace his scoring and don't make the playoffs. By the way, the 45 goals were a career high by 32. He might have gotten something as 20 year old coming back, but unlikely more than a 2nd-tier prospect and/or 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Harrison Ruopp - Was the best shutdown defenceman on a team that was in 1st place in their division at the trade deadline. Trading him at the deadline and missing the playoffs would have meant a lot more criticism for the GM.

Mark McNeil - Led the team in scoring (25-42-67) in 65 games for a team that was in first in the East Division at the trade deadline of his 19-year-old season. As much as he was criticized, the Raiders collapse and barely making the playoffs that season were not all on him. Trading him at the deadline and missing the playoffs would have meant a lot more criticism for the GM.

Leon Draisaitl - Really? You would have traded him last year? You should almost be banned from all message boards for making that suggestion. If he comes back this year (extremely unlikely) then consider it.

Bruno has not produced results that give any confidence he can build a championship team. I think he is better GM than a coach. The talent level when he got here was brutal. The few big players were very slow, and the smaller players made up for it by being almost as slow. Bruno has made to many panic trades (Cheveldave, Johnston last year, Vanscourt, Burns in 2011-2012).

You can make a solid case that he shouldn't be back after this season, but to use the reason that he didn't get "value" for players before they leave the league means you would trade anyone once they hit 19 because they might not come back.

See where the season is going, and what people might offer for Morrissey before you deal him. Don't take the first offer unless it knocks your socks off. Otherwise, relax and enjoy watching one of the most skilled puck handling defencemen in Raiders' history.

LOL your talking like i didnt enjoy watching these players. I did but would i have rather seen them traded at the deadline when we werent doing anything in the playoff ? of course i would.Other then Ian Scott The cupboard is dry once Morrissey is gone. I have never seen less talent at the Raider camp as what was there this year.

[Sttop]

Thinking like aj Thelan deal ?

Thelen was the perfect example. we traded away half a year of Thelen (while we were still sitting where we could get to the playoffs but we knew we were to weak to win anything even if we made it) in return we got Flatters and Deck. One would argue that Flatters turned out to be worth as much to us as a player as Thelen was. But instead Flatters got traded for Dustin Cameron who played 3 years with us . Was a leader and a very consistant player. Then Deck played 4 seasons for us .
Theres a example of why you trade ASSETS at the deadline instead of wasting them.
Draisaitl is a stretch that anyone knew i just added him on the list to all the assets that never returned to us after we missed the playoffs. or lost 1st round

[raiderfan]

McNeil and Roupp? The team doesn't make the playoffs and everyone screams about the crazy GM always thinking about next year. Building for the future is smart, but at least be critical about players that could get something in a year when they weren't in first place at the deadline. The complaint is that the Raiders don't make the playoffs enough or lose in the first round. You keep trading your best players you never have a chance. The players are more than assets.

And if Leon came back this year, and the team was in a playoff spot - they need to get a team's 5 best players under 18 to even consider it. You'd have arguably the best forward and the best defenceman in the league and you don't want to try to make a run with them? That kind of thinking means perpetual seasons of not being good enough.

Not every franchise is as dumb as Saskatoon in chasing a title.

You are going to lose assets every year. That's the nature of junior hockey. But point on someone on the list you mentioned that would have helped get something better than what they meant for the Raiders in the season they played?

[Sttop]

i guess you have your way of looking at it... which is the same as Campese's which we have all seen the fantastic fruits of keeping the players ...thanks for the 2 playoff wins in 7 years !!!! no other team can say that so i guess we got 1 thing on them . but ya keep loosing assets for nothing. next thing we will see you defend the Chevy deal. haha

[raiderfan]

The Chevy deal was a panic deal. Mentioned that already. I just pointed out that the "assets" you thought we should before they graduate were difficult or impossible to do in those situations. He traded Herrod for McVeigh who turned into Hart. Otherwise, in the past 4-5 seasons he has added players at the trade deadline in an effort to compete for and in the playoffs. The results have not been good - which is a good argument for making a change. When players graduate because of age, it is impossible to always get something for them - unless you never want to have 19 and 20 year old players on the roster. There is lots to criticize in the Campese-era, especially lack of competitive and playoff success. Some of the trades have made the team better. Too many trades didn't. But to say you always have to move "assets" before they leave the WHL and the team gets nothing from them, ignores the contributions those players make to the team when they are here, and the realities of junior hockey graduation.

[Sttop]

I didn't explain myself all the way through. Once you have traded off a couple graduating players the team will be strong enough to make a run , and at that time you don't trade them

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Well I'm glad that this is a discussion board where opinions are welcome, but, I also hope that some of you don't work in the hockey business.....

I don't think there would be any argument that one of the strongest and best managed franchises in the WHL for many years is the Brandon Wheat Kings. Currently they are one of the top teams in the WHL if not the CHL. Kelly McCrimmon is a shrewd manager who has built the current team through a variety of trades - some of which many people wonder how the other team agreed to the deal!

The current version of the Wheat Kings was however built through 3, major, blockbuster trades of the Wheat Kings top assets in 2011, 2012, 2013. This has been published many times but to recap:

2011 - Brayden Schenn
1st round 11, 1st round 12
2nd round 12
import pick 12
Tim McGauley, Ayrton Nikkel

2012 - Brenden Walker
2nd round 12
2nd round 13
3rd round 14

2013 - Michael Ferland
1st round 13

Thats 3-1st round picks (11,12,13), 3-2nd round picks (12,12,13), 1 - 3rd round pick (14), 1 - import pick (12) (Oh and would you look at who that pick was Richard Nejechleb!!!!! who they just moved for more draft picks), Tim McGauley (who is a major contributor to the Wheat Kings current success) and Ayrton Nikkel (who they traded for more draft picks).

This is just one example, another recent would be Matt Dumba from Red Deer to Portland. There are many other examples of teams which do this on a regular basis with success. The only real exception is Kelowna but their scouting and depth (particularly at the lower rounds ) is so good they develop from within - although they do move some of their assets from time to time.

Now these may be an extreme examples of what a GM can do by moving assets to improve his team but it does go on in many smaller forms every year with WHL teams . I am also aware that not every GM has the reputation or connections to pull off trades like these.

I would liken Josh Morrissey to a similar trade value of Brayden Schenn and in the appropriate setting garner the same (or close to) value in return as Brayden Schenn did.

Now tell me how many people in Raiderland would love to have the team that Brandon has now in 2-3 years time OR I know (being sarcastic) why don't we keep Josh Morrissey so that we can yet again make it into the playoffs to only lose out in one of the 1st 3 rounds (PA is not going to beat any of the top teams in the playoffs).

What does keeping the assets we have right now look like. If we stand pat, here's what happens next year.

Messier, Hart and Lange gone as they are 20 year olds

Leverton, Tkatch, Quinney (Fs) Stewart, Andrlik, Morrissey and Warner (Ds)
are all going to be 20 yos. Morrissey and Warner will bot be gone because they have signed ELC. Andrlik will be gone because he will be 20 and an import (and quite frankly is not that good) and will probably go back to Europe.

95 - Leverton, Tkatch, Quinney (Fs); Stewart (D)
only can keep 3 - oh boy I am so excited (compare those to 20s on other good teams right now).

SO TO REVIEW THE ABOVE WE LOSE 8 BODIES OFF A 23 MAN ROSTER AND WE CAN ONLY KEEP 3 SO WE LOSE 5 BODIES - NONE OF THE 3 THAT REMAIN ARE NHL DRAFT PICKS EXCEPT Stewart. Now thats not essential BUT your 20's are suppose to be dominant players on the ice.

96 - Gardiner, Zaharichuk, Vanstone (Fs) - Oops NO 96 D men

97 - Gennaro, Stransky, Stewart (Fs); Guhle, Riddle, Roach (who might as well not even be on the team as he hasn't played any minutes) (Ds)

98 - Montgomery (F)

So on D we could have Stewart, Guhle, Riddle as our veteran D next year - I'm not counting Roach until he starts playing, Up and comers on D? Paivarinta, Turanski (even if they play they have no experience). It would have been real smart to develop a 96 and 98 D this year instead of having 4 19 yo's. Look at other teams rosters to look at D depth across the birth years. Not one other team in the league has 4 19 yo D on their roster. What is the purpose of a -9 Andrlik or a -2 Warner? Think of other 19 yo's on D - Jesse Lees, Madison Bowey.

Up and comers on F? Coleman, Williamson, Maser.

They have too many 19 yo's and have not developed enough of their list and signed players. The wish/hope was to win in the playoffs. This has not and will not happen this year, next year or the year after that (the team is not going to win the WHL title). The only way to fix this "mess" is to trade 19 yo assets and get proven younger players and picks in return. This will allow development of younger list and signed players during second half of the season as well as developing a solid core nucleus for next year. Combine this with good drafting in the next two years. Particularly important with the recent coaching change. PA's list is very top heavy (older), shallow in the middle and weak at the bottom (younger).

The team has taken the first step by changing the coach. They now have to take the second step and make appropriate on-ice changes that will lead to future success of the team. I know it's tough to talk about the future or next year but don't blame me for stating the truth blame the situation or organization that has allowed this to happen over the last few years.

More importantly we should blame ourselves as fans for letting this happen. If you don't think fans have a say - look at the recent coaching change. I bothers me to see comments "like junior hockey realities.." There are no realities in hockey. If you don't like the reality your being fed, change it!! Other teams do.

[walleye18]

Does anyone have access to or a link to the current protected list for the Raiders?

[puckdad]

My most useful reference is Alan Caldwell's "Small Thoughts at Large"
Great info & insight into everything WHL & a very unbiased analysis of players & teams

[puckdad]

He's also got a great depth chart that you can reference & download that lists every team's players & broken down into Birth Years, & Positions (F,D,G)

[raiderfan]

I didn't explain myself all the way through. Once you have traded off a couple graduating players the team will be strong enough to make a run , and at that time you don't trade them

Trading assests on a team not going anywhere is a good plan. Campese has probably gambled a couple of years on making the playoffs rather than give up on winning and potentially missing the playoffs. The 2012-2013 season was the perfect example of a team that was very good until January, and then fell apart, barely made the playoffs and were swept in the first round.

Hindsight says they should have dealt McNeil and Ruopp. But if a first place team trades away their top centre/leading scorer and a top-pair defenceman, and the falls apart to barely make the playoffs and get swept in the first round, then everyone calls the GM crazy.

Morrissey is likely going to be dealt this year - this team isn't good enough to contend, so why use that asset to get younger talent (preferred) or picks (maybe OK). One thing to remember, though, is that unless you get a desperate GM like Molloken was in Saskatoon, it is hard to get a bucket full like McCrimmon received. He has to have pics on some other GMs to steal from them as much as he does.

When you look back on Campese's tenure as GM, there really wasn't anything to trade most years at the deadline - outside of 20 year olds having big years (Bernhardt), and those aren't easy to deal for a lot unless a contender's 20s are not very good. Matt Robertson was traded in 08-09 (WHL site's transactions list doesn't go back that far, unfortunately, to find what the Raiders got but think it was Michael MacAngus who was also 20).
In 2010, the Raiders were buyers - Jamie Tucker, Stefan Warg and Jonathan Parker arrived.

At the deadline in 2011, the Raiders sent Ryan Button to Seattle for Charles Wells and a 1st round import pick (not sure who that turned into, maybe Igor Revenko?). Before the season, they traded Ryan Harrison to Medicine Hat for Austin Bourhis and Todd Fiddler.

In 2012, at the deadline, the traded Herrod for McVeigh.

Hindsight makes it easier to say they should have traded more older players for younger ones and picks, but at the time would the fans who don't like missing the playoffs or having first round losses have accepted that? Campese's time is probably coming to an end after this season, and with justification when you look at the on-ice results. But to make arguments that they should have traded this guy or that guy without consider of where the team was at during those seasons, or the players available to trade for more than mid-round picks, it is just ranting for ranting's sake.

[puckdad]

What half-wit from the CNIB picks the game stars?

[puckdad]

Surprised he didn't pick McBride, Byblow & Howe.

[Raiderfan8]

I no longer see Cody Paivarinta on the Nelson Leafs roster. Both him and Williamson were reassigned there at the start of the year. Anyone hear anything?

Also I think Josh Morrissey would look great in a Kelown Rockets Uniform with his brother. Maybe get Dillon Dube and Kole Lind back to Saskatchewan in return? One can only dream.......

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Cut/dropped from team for disciplinary reasons. He is not even close to being ready to play in WHL.
http://thenelsondaily.com/news/ice-decision-proves-costly-trio-leaf-players-34298#.VF5AbIo77CQ

[BigFanHockeyNut]

While we are on the topic of D picks...... The Raiders other D draft pick Noah Turanski is playing F , yes I said F for Coquitlam Express. He has 1 point in 16 games as a F. Not great numbers as an F. I guess the Raiders have a difficulty finding good character and personality in players and have a great knack for finding D men that end up as F's? Wow ...... Not good news off the Raiders list.

[Sttop]

Well that pretty much leaves verrall coming up and he didn't exactly bring it at camp either .

[Raiderfan8]

I would imagine they are gonna do something soon. We still have Conroy to swap for a 20 year old then move Stewart back. Be nice to move Morrissey before World Juniors and hopefully bring in a few more quality players.

[Dwight Schrute]

Well that pretty much leaves verrall coming up and he didn't exactly bring it at camp either .

How would that Connor Hobbs kid be fitting in ?

[walleye18]

Raiders listed Kyle Sargent, 98 born d-man this fall. He plays for the MJ Generals midget aaa. He was drafted by Red Deer in 2013 and released in Sept. and picked up shortly after by PA so who knows?

[Sttop]

We might as well trade away all our picks for young 16 and 17 . Seems like most of our talent comes from listing anyways.

[BigFanHockeyNut]

How would that Connor Hobbs kid be fitting in ?

Hobbs is a 97 and was originally drafted by PA and traded to Medicine Hat. Decent D-man. Had most success on PP in Midget AAA. DZ coverage OK. Tries to make big hits in NZ which usually leads to odd man rushes against. He certainly could play in the WHL. Normally I'd say "why not" but with Guhle, Roach and Riddle already 97's that are playing the last thing this team needs is another 97. A few years from now we will end up with same problem we have now - too many 19 yo's. Now if Hobbs is better than Riddle or Roach or Guhle - then pull the trigger! In my opinion Guhle is better than Hobbs but Hobbs in some ways may be better than Riddle or Roach.

Team needs a 96 D man and 1-2 98 D men. Preferably stay at home guys. We have enough offensive D men in the mix!

I think Verral was probably a numbers/ Clouston casualty. I've heard Manson and Leonard think/thought he could play - but again a numbers game. Not sure Clouston a fan and never really got opportunity much like Roach. There's a few Sasky kids on Cowichan. I heard 2nd hand through one of the parents that he's playing 20-25 minutes a night, doing very well, physical defensive Dman. Looked on BCHL site. They upset Penticton yesterday and he had assist on game winning goal. Don't know if he's the answer. He is already signed makes it easier to bring him up. Don't know at this stage where you'd get another 96 D man that a team would be willing to give up. Easy to give him opportunity once 19 yo D trade made. If it doesn't work out release him and trade for an 18 yo if available in off season. Kipling and some other kid from Edmonton no longer on Raiders 96 D list. Kipling playing senior men's hockey (got cut from AJHL) not sure about Edmonton kid they had on list.

If Paivarinta is not the guy (and it sounds like he's not) then bring in somebody else. Sounds like he's screwing up his opportunity (how do you screw up in Jr B) - not sure what his status is now. Maybe back to Midget AAA? Not even sure Turanski still on Raiders list.

There is a reason that Sargeant released by Red Deer. Not sure that that is a significant addition to strengthen the list.

Maybe one of last years D draft picks will step it up next year in camp.

[Sabes]

Hobbs is a 97 and was originally drafted by PA and traded to Medicine Hat. Decent D-man. Had most success on PP in Midget AAA. DZ coverage OK. Tries to make big hits in NZ which usually leads to odd man rushes against. He certainly could play in the WHL. Normally I'd say "why not" but with Guhle, Roach and Riddle already 97's that are playing the last thing this team needs is another 97. A few years from now we will end up with same problem we have now - too many 19 yo's. Now if Hobbs is better than Riddle or Roach or Guhle - then pull the trigger! In my opinion Guhle is better than Hobbs but Hobbs in some ways may be better than Riddle or Roach.

Team needs a 96 D man and 1-2 98 D men. Preferably stay at home guys. We have enough offensive D men in the mix!

I think Verral was probably a numbers/ Clouston casualty. I've heard Manson and Leonard think/thought he could play - but again a numbers game. Not sure Clouston a fan and never really got opportunity much like Roach. There's a few Sasky kids on Cowichan. I heard 2nd hand through one of the parents that he's playing 20-25 minutes a night, doing very well, physical defensive Dman. Looked on BCHL site. They upset Penticton yesterday and he had assist on game winning goal. Don't know if he's the answer. He is already signed makes it easier to bring him up. Don't know at this stage where you'd get another 96 D man that a team would be willing to give up. Easy to give him opportunity once 19 yo D trade made. If it doesn't work out release him and trade for an 18 yo if available in off season. Kipling and some other kid from Edmonton no longer on Raiders 96 D list. Kipling playing senior men's hockey (got cut from AJHL) not sure about Edmonton kid they had on list.

If Paivarinta is not the guy (and it sounds like he's not) then bring in somebody else. Sounds like he's screwing up his opportunity (how do you screw up in Jr B) - not sure what his status is now. Maybe back to Midget AAA? Not even sure Turanski still on Raiders list.

There is a reason that Sargeant released by Red Deer. Not sure that that is a significant addition to strengthen the list.

Maybe one of last years D draft picks will step it up next year in camp.

Thanks for the input Mr Verral

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Watched the Super Series game on TV last night. Amazing display of talent on both sides.

Liked the pairing of Morrissey and Sanheim - seemed to have decent chemistry in what would have been extremely short time to get used to one another. Morrissey's game is really evolving in a real good direction on both sides of the puck. Think his post NHL camp "funk" is lifting and his trade stock is elevating.

Hicketts is very impressive. Strong stick, physically strong for size, great vision. Really like a combination of Morrissey, Hicketts and Sanheim on point on PP. Hadn't seen Theodore since last year - his game continues to improve. Bowey's play grew on me as the game progressed.

Other players on the trade market including Reinhart, Chase and Klimchuk all showed well. Loved Hawryluks energy and skill, Point has an amazing future - very smooth, great puck skill and not afraid to play along the wall!

If Morrissey is traded (alone or in combination with other Raider players or picks) would any of the WHL teams with players in the Super Series be willing to part with one of their 96 F's: Hawryluk, Bleackley, Virtanen, Quenneville, Point in return for his services. That and/or a 97 from one of those teams would be a nice package. Brandon has Gabrielle and Shmyr; Calgary has Bensmiller, Stallard and Twarynski; Regina has Cole, Wagner, and Kroeker; Koot is a little weak in 97's but like 96 Zborosky. What 98 F's would people consider?

What D would Raiders take in return for a trade package if doors busted wide open? Really like Hilsendager in Regina; Murray or Fleury in Koot; Matsuba in Brandon; would be nice to see Loch Morrison back in PA or Bean.

What would the "fantasy" Morrissey trade package look like? What else do the Raiders give up? What will the package actually end up as?

Looking forward to Super Series game #2 on the tube!

[booboo]

Do you honestly think Brandon would trade Hawyrluk or Quennevile and other assets for a 3 month rental player like Morrissey.?He is not worth that in a million years. As a Jets fan I hope Morrisey turns out to be a great player,but I have my doubts, ONLY because he will not be able to handle the physical demand of the NHL unless he gets a lot stronger. Even last night he was outmuscled a few times. I agree PA needs to trade him as the team is going nowhere this year, but you may have over-valued him. I may be wrong, but I guess we'll see how this plays out.:frog:

[BigFanHockeyNut]

Do you honestly think Brandon would trade Hawyrluk or Quennevile and other assets for a 3 month rental player like Morrissey.?He is not worth that in a million years. As a Jets fan I hope Morrisey turns out to be a great player,but I have my doubts, ONLY because he will not be able to handle the physical demand of the NHL unless he gets a lot stronger. Even last night he was outmuscled a few times. I agree PA needs to trade him as the team is going nowhere this year, but you may have over-valued him. I may be wrong, but I guess we'll see how this plays out.:frog:

I agree it would be a long shot.... But he could be a good fit or a good final piece of the puzzle on the Brandon blue line. Love Provorov - but down the road to end of season it might be nice to have the support of an experienced offensive D man on blue line. On TV it looked like McCrimmon running the D - so he's getting a good look at Josh against some pretty good competition and a comparison to his peers.

I think Josh more likely to go to Calgary, Edmonton, Kelowna or even Seattle. Again depends on young talent that teams are willing to part with in return and what value or piece of the puzzle Morrissey could be to the team he's traded to. Plus, maybe Morrissey has a short list of teams that he's willing to get traded to affecting the decision.

[booboo]

The trouble with trading a player of Josh's ability is ---- the asking price may be too high for a lot of the teams that are interested. Everyone is a little gun shy about trading for a real high end talent like Morrissey because of what happened to the Blades when they acquired Schenn from the WK. They mortgaged a large part of their future in that deal and still have not fully recovered. Quite a risk to take when there is no guarantee of winning the league. I really think you will not see a trade of the magnitude of the Schenn deal but I could be wrong. That trade and it's results just may have scared some teams away.:frog:

[BigFanHockeyNut]

The trouble with trading a player of Josh's ability is ---- the asking price may be too high for a lot of the teams that are interested. Everyone is a little gun shy about trading for a real high end talent like Morrissey because of what happened to the Blades when they acquired Schenn from the WK. They mortgaged a large part of their future in that deal and still have not fully recovered. Quite a risk to take when there is no guarantee of winning the league. I really think you will not see a trade of the magnitude of the Schenn deal but I could be wrong. That trade and it's results just may have scared some teams away.:frog:

I do think you are right. The Schenn deal was probably a once in a life time type of trade that McCrimmon continued to take advantage for 2 years after. Particularly, with other pieces out on the table such as Reinhart, Klimchuk and Chase, his value may not be at its top end.

In a more reasonable trade world..... What would be a realistic expectation for a return for Morrissey? Would there be 1-2 players the Raiders absolutely benefit from? What team do you think might be interested in him?

[Raiderfan8]

I said it before and I'll say it again, Kelowna! They have Josh's brother and loads of young talent with there 98 group. I would love to even see Dillon Dube for Morrissey.

[Sttop]

stadel and dube maybe... i predict Dube, Gatenby and a 2nd

[WesternHockeyScout]

stadel and dube maybe... i predict Dube, Gatenby and a 2ndinteresting expectations. maybe your right. i'm curious though, with both Dube and Morrisey being first round picks - and Dube looks like the real deal - why would Kelowna part with 3 2/3 years of Dube for just 2/3 of a year with Morrisey (probably less with WJC accounted for)? If anybody has to kick in more for that deal, it would be Prince Albert, to account for 3 additional years of service. No? If not, why not?

[patsdude114]

I said it before and I'll say it again, Kelowna! They have Josh's brother and loads of young talent with there 98 group. I would love to even see Dillon Dube for Morrissey.

Kelowna doesn't have a history of trading away top prospects (like Dube) for a player rental in which Morrissey would be... chances are the best you would get from Kelowna is a mid tier prospect or 2 along with a 2nd round pick. This is the reason Kelowna is a top team in the western conference year after year, they have only missed the playoffs once (2006-07) since 1995-96 season (which I believe is the year they moved there from Tacoma).

Kelowna is a model junior franchise that most franchises only wish they could become but you don't become 1 of these franchises by trading away your 1st round picks or players they selected in the 1st round. Top end prospects are hard enough to find and to trade them away for a player rental just doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Sttop]

Maybe your right . Maybe Bruno will give him away for a mid range prospect and pick ... can't see it though.otherwise if I was the Raiders I give up a 3rd and roach for Klimchuk that works too

[patsdude114]

Maybe your right . Maybe Bruno will give him away for a mid range prospect and pick ... can't see it though.otherwise if I was the Raiders I give up a 3rd and roach for Klimchuk that works too


We'd give you Hunt for that not Klimchuk.......... im not looking for a huge overpayment for Klimchuk by any means but we do need a quality prospect or 2 along with a 1st or 2 2nd's

It will be interesting to see what type of prices will be paid for these WJ players (I would assume Morrissey and Klimchuk will both be on team Canada especially Morrissey) plus throw in Reinhart most likely gets traded too

[Sttop]

I didn't read the " best you will get from kelowna" part . I would think something like Draude , Morrison and a 2nd would get the job done for a deal.

[booboo]

I didn't read the " best you will get from kelowna" part . I would think something like Draude , Morrison and a 2nd would get the job done for a deal.

I would be very surprised if Calgary would give that much up for Klimchuck who plays soft like butter. That is two up and coming players and a high draft pick for a 3 month rental player. Seems like a steep price to pay , but more power to the Pats if they can get that done.:frog:

[radrguy]

Good grief, this team has issues.

[Sttop]

The fact we cant even get a WHL Caliber 20 year old tells the story

[Raiderfan8]

Let's start building for the next few years. Our cupboards are bare besides a 15 year old goalie we took 8th overall.

[patsdude114]

I would be very surprised if Calgary would give that much up for Klimchuck who plays soft like butter. That is two up and coming players and a high draft pick for a 3 month rental player. Seems like a steep price to pay , but more power to the Pats if they can get that done.:frog:


here I will re-post what I said and I will bold a couple key words cause it seems like you have missed it



im not looking for a huge overpayment for Klimchuk by any means but we do need a quality prospect or 2 along with a 1st or 2 2nd's


see the words I bolded for you? they are 2 very simple words only 2 letters long im sure you cant miss them now right....

[booboo]

Thanks Patsdude you made it crystal clear? :frog:

[Raider Believer]

Let's start building for the next few years. Our cupboards are bare besides a 15 year old goalie we took 8th overall.

So.. are you advocating that Campese should be given another mandate to rebuild? Again! Bare cupboards ... where have I heard that before? Where is Kev the last couple of weeks?

[patsdude114]

Thanks Patsdude you made it crystal clear? :frog:

It seemed like it was needed as you seem to have reading issues but anyways enough of that.....

I do agree wth you when you said Klimchuk plays as soft as butter he rarely ever finishes a check and some crazy pats GM tried to say he would of made the NHL had he not gotten hurt hahaha ya right he wasn't even considered a bubble player to make the flames as he will have at least 2 yrs in the AHL before he ever sees regular NHL time. Him being a soft player has a lot to do with this.

[Raiderfan8]

Anyone know what 20 year olds would be on Waivers?

[Sttop]

messier... no one else. no help on the way lol

[Raider Believer]

The fact we cant even get a WHL Caliber 20 year old tells the story

This team is terrible and there's not much hope for next year being any better. What a legacy Campese has given this city. Will the BOD shake Campese loose before the Christmas break? Hopefully when he does land on his butt outside the city limits he doesn't get a chance to ruin some other city's hockey program.

[Raiderfan8]

So.. are you advocating that Campese should be given another mandate to rebuild? Again! Bare cupboards ... where have I heard that before? Where is Kev the last couple of weeks?

I'm not advocating Campese to rebuild the team, not at all. As a fan it's quite obvious that this isn't our year and changes need to be made. In saying that though I don't believe this is a long term rebuild. We sell off Morrissey and Warner for 2-3 young guys and maybe a draft pick. May be move Draisitl's rights to the right team and reap some rewards if he's ever sent back this year. With that we have a good crew of youth with McBride, Scott (hoping he's worth the 8th overall pick) in goal, Guhle, Riddle, Gennarro, Gardiner, Stransky, D.Stewart, Montgomery. Add in the young guys you hopefully get with trades and hope for the best in the future. Who do you get to make these moves??? I have no idea.

[patsdude114]

So sad to see Stewart and LeSann get a 1 game suspension and each team being fined $250 for this so called 'staged fight' lets look at the bright side of this fight the fans were cheering for a great way to kick start Saskatchewan rivals and no player was getting jumped and forced to fight.

More and more fans are not coming to games due to how poussyfied this game has become.

http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/125675

[Sttop]

Lesann easily is my favorite scrapper since Grant McNeill played here. But big Mac is sure making up for his late start. Finding tough guys isn't as easy as it used to be. There are no other kids in the system the like to fight (that I have seen) so we really better appreciate big Stew and the fact he brings it every night . And not just for himself you can see he does it for his teammates and fans.

[SectionNDeserter]

Its about time there is a rule put in place about these stupid staged fights


So sad to see Stewart and LeSann get a 1 game suspension and each team being fined $250 for this so called 'staged fight'.Have a change of heart? :D

[patsdude114]

The staged fights I don't like are between the 2 tough guy goons that only play 3-5mins a night... those are the 1s I don't agree with and agree with the rule but from players like these 2 who still play around the 20mins a night I have no issues with them planning on fighting cause they are still going to contribute to the game.

I know you can not have a grey area within a rule, im happy to see the goon types gone from the game but these type of players planning on fighting I have no issues with

So I guess ya you could say abit of a change of heart for this rule lol

[Wildeyes]

Raiders trade with Blades for Cory Millette. Who at the time was tied for the scoring lead with the blades. 22 games played 5 goals and 9 assits.

for a 5th round pick

[patsdude114]

Raiders trade with Blades for Cory Millette. Who at the time was tied for the scoring lead with the blades. 22 games played 5 goals and 9 assits.

for a 5th round pick

he will be good to make your 3rd line stronger.... maybe play some 2nd line minutes when an injury happens

[Sttop]

He will play top 6 here.

[Sttop]

I guess not lol. Quinney must be locked in to his top line time.

[walleye18]

I see that Roach has only dressed for 4 games. Is he injured, or just been a healthy scratch a lot? Pretty hard to get any development sitting in the stands.

[Sttop]

He has been healthy. And things are about to get worse as they have moved big mac back on defense. The pairings were strong last night . Limiting the Oil Kings 4 or 5 quality chances. Parentau again played a great game . I have also been impressed with Hart. Not just because of his points lately but his work ethic has been through the roof.

[patsdude114]

don't look now but the Raiders have now won 5 straight and knocking off some very good teams in the process in EDM PA SC (2)

what's been the biggest difference in the Raiders game since the coaching change?

[Sttop]

a couple things.. They got Millete which let Stewart go back to defence. Which takes Riddle off the ice . The defence is very solid (and old) with 4 19 year olds and 20 and 17 year old. Also we are getting incredible goaltending from Parentau. Still have my fingers crossed that Leon gets sent back for world jrs.

[puckdad]

one of the biggest reasons is goaltending. McBride seemed to think that he deserved the starter's spot, being the returning veteran. His performance did not reflect that. Some of the games that he started (Calgary & Seattle games come to mind) he did not appear ready to play and the Raiders suffered 2 losses in games where they outplayed the opposition.
He's only 17, but has to realize that there should be no sense of entitlement at any position, let alone arguably the most important position on the ice. Maybe this will encourage him to work harder in practice & be ready to play come puck drop.
Parenteau has battled hard in practice and games to earn his starts & his play is a reflection of this. Finally, we have a goaltender that can steal some games , and the team plays more confidently in front of him knowing that they can make the odd mistake & not have to pick the puck out of their own net.

Another reason that can't be overlooked is confidence. Everyone seems to be a little more patient with the puck, waiting for team mates to get open and plays to develop, rather than getting it off their stick at the 1st available opportunity. Best example of this is Hunter Warner. That few extra seconds of puck possession before making a pass has resulted in way fewer neutral zone battles for pucks that started with clean possession, but were turned over just to clear the zone.

3rd & 4th lines are seeing more ice time & getting used to playing in all situations. The Raiders are slowly becoming a 4 line team, so they were able to play 3 road games in 4 nights and not look completely gassed come the 3rd period.

Lots of little things coupled with one big thing (Absence of Clouston) seems to have put this team more on the right track. We'll see how the month of December plays out, with its killer BC road trip and only 2 home games. Brandon, one of the league's elite teams, on Saturday will be a good measuring stick to see if the last few games has been just luck, or has there been real improvement. I hope they play to a full house at AHC on Saturday night.

[Sttop]

Well anyone hoping to see Roach and Riddle play more may have there wishes come true. A couple of the boys may be dinged up.

[puckdad]

what do you mean by dinged up?

[Sttop]

we will be short handed

[puckdad]

Someone injured on the road trip?

[Sttop]

Judging by the way that Warner handled himself in the fight I am guessing he's not healthy. I heard he was on the way to miny to get checked out.

[puckdad]

Wow, With 2 of our top 4 D-men out it could be a tough BC road trip.

[Sttop]

No reason not to give up a late pick for a 20 year old dman like Henry in stoon right now

[puckdad]

P A Now just says Lange could be out for "an extended period of time"
Any idea what "an extended period" is? And Warner having just an MRI & diagnosis or will he be out with surgery? We went from having a pretty deep, experienced blue line that IMO was playing quite well to a very young d-core in a hurry.
This will really impact the ultimate decision on whether to try to move Morrissey and for what assets (instead of looking for scoring, will they need help on D?) at or around WJ's or to keep him to try to hold the fort until one or both of these guys return.

[Sttop]

Ya warner was touching it out (and playing some great hockey. Lange has a break and won't be back until well after World Jr's . A bandaid is needed . Or rebuild now and let Roach, Riddle , play.

[puckdad]

Barring a trade, the only 2 other D in our system are Verrall & Paviarinta

[Wildeyes]

rumor around the rink about warner is that it was the Wild who told Hunter to get the surgery that will take him out for the rest of the year. I am thinking it would be different if the Raiders where higher in the standings.

[Sttop]

Last I heard they just wanted to check it out and see what's best for him .

[JrAScout]

One thing I am hearing on my end from multiple people is that Micheal Mylchreest is a strong option for the Raiders. He was on Brandon's protected list and attended camp with the Wheat Kings, but was dropped after being cut.

[Sttop]

we have had 2 months to help the team by adding a 20...why haven't we...i would say it is mismanagement

[puckdad]

I am equally concerned that we don't have anyone on our list or in our system who is close to being able to step up & fill these voids. It only gets worse come Dec 11 when Morrissey leaves for WJ Training Camp. 20 able-bodied players & that's it.

[Sttop]

I just find it unacceptable that we basically made Perreaux and Danyluk like they didnt want them this year. And then they clearly chose the wrong 20 year old and letting Brooks go for a mid round pick. now we will be playing with 1 20 year old and without our best 3 dmen (unless Warriner) comes back for pretty much the rest of the year. There wont be many wins from now until then. And to me all this is because our GM is secretly going to begin his 2nd rebuild .

[puckdad]

I think there's gotta be some OA players out there, just trying to sell them on PA is going to be tough.

[Wildeyes]

The Raiders have acquired 20-year old Colton Heffley from the Kelowna Rockets for a 4th round pick in 2016. The Swift Current born Heffley is 6’3, 206 lbs and has spent his entire WHL career with the Rockets. He has accumulated 83 points (23G, 60A) and 305 penalty minutes in 270 regular season WHL games.

“We are pleased to add Colton to our line-up. He is a versatile player that can play forward or defence and with our current injury situation will be a good addition to the team,” Bruno Campese, Raider General Manager.


Season Team GP G A PTS +/- PIM
2014-15 Regular Season Kelowna Rockets 27 3 7 10 5 39
2013-14 Regular Season Kelowna Rockets 71 8 21 29 24 85
2012-13 Regular Season Kelowna Rockets 68 6 21 27 24 77

[puckdad]

Well, he's 20 & a warm body. Not great numbers in his years in the league, but hopefully should contribute in a positive way.

[Sttop]

We got a good one today

[Raiderfan8]

I don't think that will be the last trade with Kelowna this year. I have a feeling Morrissey will eventually end up there at the deadline. He's a good fit.

Does anyone think there is a chance Draisitl is sent back?

[Sttop]

Kelowna won't give up enough in my opinion for morrissey. It would have happened in that last deal if it was going to

[RAIDERSFANGIRL]

What an awesome road trip the raiders are having, too bad about Lange's broken arm and Warner being away for surgery. Interested to see what management is going to do about the defence situation, I suspect some more deals are on the horizon?

[Sttop]

Well we have anderlik, Guhle, Stewy, Riddle, Grewall, hefley and Roach. So we will get through the next month . Then at the start of Jan I would imagine we will see Morrissey dealt to Brandon , portland, or Everett . I am hoping the return would be a good vet dman a young forward with some potential a 1st and a 2nd. I would imagine we should be able to trade Leons rights as well with how the Oilers are playing.

[WesternHockeyScout]

Well we have anderlik, Guhle, Stewy, Riddle, Grewall, hefley and Roach. So we will get through the next month . Then at the start of Jan I would imagine we will see Morrissey dealt to Brandon , , or . I am hopung the return would be a good vet dman a young forward with some potential a 1st and a 2nd. I would imagine we should be able to trade Leons rights as well with how the Oilers are playing.The Raiders and Cougars have become frequent trading partners. With Bobos being released, and PG committed to going for it in the "New Ice Age", one wonders if the Cougars might be a good spot for Draistl should the Oilers send him back

[patsdude114]

PG needs way to much to 'go for it' they don't have the goalie needed to even consider getting past Kelowna in a 7 game series nor do they have the defense or offense. They are a .500 team with very little upside they would need to trade for at least 2 elite forwards and 1 elite Dman to even be taken seriously. They have a good group of '97s to build around they have a better shot of being a better team in the next 2 seasons plus they have a great building block on their defense in Anderson

[walleye18]

I've noticed that Grewal has not dressed yet since his rights were acquired, and in the boxscores of recent games on the road trip only 5 d-men were dressed. What's the deal? Raiders did not give up much to get Grewal, a 12th round pick in 2015 I think.

[puckdad]

There were 6 D-men in each game - actually 7 in the Victoria game. Heffley is on the game sheets as RW, his natural position, but is playing defense.

[raiderfan]

I've noticed that Grewal has not dressed yet since his rights were acquired, and in the boxscores of recent games on the road trip only 5 d-men were dressed. What's the deal? Raiders did not give up much to get Grewal, a 12th round pick in 2015 I think.

Grewal didn't play, but last night had Stewart, Guhle, Andrlik, Roach, Morrissey and Riddle

Saturday in Kelowna and Friday in Kamloops had no Roach, but Heffley was in the lineup and can play both forward and defence, which is one of the reasons they got him.

Heffley was in lineup vs Victoria, but Millette didn't play.

Grewal is really just a depth d-man, especially with Lange still out and Morrissey leaving soon.

[Sttop]

Grewal is a depth guy..but he looked good on our team tonight.. that should tell us something

[Sttop]

i figured Josh had played his last game as a Raider. And i am happy to see he didnt break the goal record for a dman. We get a big skilled 18 year old Austin Glover and Jesse Lees . Along with a 2nd and 3rd. Going to the Rockets was also Quinney. Lees has great stats and will look great with Lange once he is healthy.

[patsdude114]

http://www.raiderhockey.com/article/raiders-trade-morrissey


PA TRADES
Josh Morrissey 1995
Cage Quinney 1995

KELOWNA TRADES
Jesse Lees 1995
Austin Glover 1996
2nd round pick 2016
3rd round pick 2017

[RAIDERSFANGIRL]

Gotta say, I'm pretty pleased to see Josh go and to receive two fresh new faces in return. Josh just was no longer performing at the level we needed him to or that he was capable of, and his poor attitude was starting to show on the ice. Hopefully we can start fresh from here.

[patsdude114]

im very surprised by the lack of chatter about this trade involving your biggest asset. I would of thought there would of been lots of thoughts on the return and just in general the trade itself.

[Raiderfan8]

Depression has set in

[Raiderfan8]

All kidding aside , I didn't see this trade until this morning. When I read the article I was immediately looking for a 1st rounder and a young good prospect. Obviously that didn't take place but looking at this trade I think we remain decent for this year and it obviously will make us stronger next year. Glover is a good Saskatchewan kid who has put up decent numbers this year and has the potential to play next year and as a 20 year old if he remains healthy. Lees gives us another offensive defenceman for this year and next as well. Then hopefully we can draft a decent kid with the second rounder. This trade does impact the team for the next 3-4 years so I don't mind it. Only thing I don't like is holding 6-7 19 year old spots this year. Wouldn't mind seeing more movement but it may not happen.

Does anyone this Draistitl's rights will be traded or does he even get returned to Junior?

[Sttop]

Leons rights will be traded imo. We may not get a ton for his rights but we will get something. The condition of Leon returning to the WHL is where the assets are. I also think he will return and I wouldn't deal him for less then Josh got us.