Line Combos and Defence

[Shooter]

Good points crash and bang. The pats dude seems to know everything ahead of curve. I wish he would get a New Jersey!

Obvious has inside information.

Yes the chemistry seems to be struggling. I think we need to try some other combos. There is a process but a couple of tweaks are needed and give opportunities to some other players and evaluate.

I like to see this combo as it's deeper and may score more even strength goals.
Load up 4 f and 1 d on pp units.


Christopher Damico Gay

Hunt Brooks Padican

Wagner Steele Cole

McCammond Kroeker Zimmer

Smith

Klimmer hurt- trade or deal TBA. Bear is a player we need in package deal to assist with depth chart. More Sask flavour would be good!



D TBA but split up Williams unit to balance out units.
Hanson is looking more comfortable on d but will take more games to get groove and he needs to drop mitts every night to stay in lineup! Could be shopped shortly but TBA.
G

Ride Wapple

[Thatshockey1965]

Reagan Burroughs
William hilsedager/Hanson
Zubrosky Harrison

Hunt Christopher gay experince
Padrikan wagner mccammond size and speed
Smith/Zimmer steel cole size and at making
Brooks kroeker damico same as above

Role the lines

Wapple Wapple Wapple

[RWAH]

FYI: The web site "the dub from above" tracks ever line and D pairing on every team and every game. I know that is after the fact but you may find some of those lines have been tried, with or without success.

[patsdude114]

Im not big into creating lines and such but if I have to here is what I would do... and these are with Klimchuk healthy as he may be playing tomorrow night

LW/C/RW
Klimchuk/Steel/Hunt
Christoffer/D'Amico/Padakin
Gay/Brooks/Wagner
McAmmond/Kroker/Cole

Zimmer & Smith rotating in and out of the lineup.

Burroughs/Hilsendager (thought they were a very good D pairing in preseason)
Williams/Zborovskiy
Reagan/Harrison

Hansen in and out of lineup (ideally trade him and use a younger guy for this role)

[D cherry]

i think Patsdude!114 has the best line format . they should run with that for a game or two .

[Bighat]

Klimchuck/steel/padikin
Christopher/hunt/gay
Wagner/brooks/Kroeker
Cole/d'amico/mcammond
Smith/Zimmer

[D cherry]

whoever they choose to play center needs to win draws. As we know winning the draws helps to get puck control part of the game .

[Shooter]

The real key is chemistry, playmaking, and puck management. The staff will make adjustments where required as very early in season. Be a good test this upcoming weekend and evaluation holistically.

The coaching staffs job is to get the best out of their players at end of day!

LA Kings 4th Line last season was a key to NHL Stanley Cup Championship. Sutter was very swift with his units!

[Some_Arrogant_Jerk]

The lines will Change periodically but one constant needs to be giving steel every chance he needs to succeed, not on a checking line. Guys like padakin and klimchuk can shuffle around to create illusion of depth but on the PP those guys will need to be prominent figures.



Reagan Burroughs
William hilsedager/Hanson
Zubrosky Harrison

Hunt Christopher gay experince
Padrikan wagner mccammond size and speed
Smith/Zimmer steel cole size and at making
Brooks kroeker damico same as above

Role the lines

Wapple Wapple Wapple

Hahaha. This is why punctuation is important.

[Fight Guy]

Hahaha. This is why punctuation is important.HA! Fantastic!

[chopper]

With the 1-0 loss tonight, the team has scored 1 goal in two games, albeit against a couple good goalies. As an inexperienced team, the vets need to lead the way and they really haven't done in the last couple of games. Gay, Christopher and Hunt need to be better.

You can put Padakin in with that trio. I can't seem to put my finger on it but I sense that something's missing with our club. I don't feel we have a real identity if you will. We don't have that real leader or go-to guy I don't sense. Maybe it's just my take.

We're not overly gritty, overly offensive, or overly big, and it seems at times we play just well enough to lose. Maybe we try to be too cute when we should be crashing and banging a bit more. I have long felt there are some components missing.

Perhaps we need a gritty forward who can control the boards better than we are now. Maybe a rugged d-man to create a little fear on our back end. I'm sure it will get sorted out in due course. I believe we will still see a couple course corrections made.

[Bighat]

Were too cute, trying to make to perfect pass. Klimchuck will help when he gets back tomorrow.

[patsdude114]

After watching that game last night I think our biggest problem is we just don't bear down enough around the net. Padakin hits the post on a wide open net, Wagner fans on a high slot one timer when he has tons of time and space to move in more, Hunt and Gay fire quality scoring chances high or wide.

We deserved a better fate last night, we controlled that game basically from puck drop, our PK was good sure they scored on the PP but outside of that long floater where Wapple was screened our PK did a great job. Burroughs and Williams shut down Descheneau and made his night very frustrating, that D pairing made up for the last time we played KOO

Any idea on why Zimmer hasn't been playing? He scores his 1st career goal in a come back win in PA and hasn't seen game action since. It hasn't been like we are playing lights out hockey to not get him into the lineup.

[Bighat]

He has a history of a bad back?

[Thatshockey1965]

They out skated kootney badly. They played good defense but nobody went to the net. All shots where from the outside. The 19 and 20s are not playing the kind of hockey they need too. Too Cranbrooks credit they got sticks in lanes and deflected a ton of passes ie Wagners one time, hunt cross ice, kroekers lower slot. They need to be driving the net creating chances. In the offensive zone perhaps try cycling the puck and not be adverse to actually going in the corner when that opportunity is there on the cycle, brooks damico wagner did it. No one else. Watching the pp is painful. No one in front of the net which draws the d or forwards inside to protect against inside shots. The peripheral play only allows cross ice plays which the ice got sticks in those lanes. Just an idea but put Smith in front of the net. Big kid. Was huge when compared to players on the ice in cranbrook. I like the fact that coaching is basically rolling the lines. Players are getting better as a team but that also perhaps limits the scoring at times. If you watched them live last year it was a two line team, especially on the road where 3 and 4th lines basically would get 4-5 shifts a game. I watch a few teams on the road and Regina was the worst for two line playing. This will pay off in the long run. Think you may see line combos changed soon.

[RWAH]

Not impressed with the Steel, Klimchuk, and whoever. the line was wasting opportunities trying to be to cute and were very week in the D zone. If any one is doing Corsie (spelling) stats, I thought the time spent in the D zone and N zone was 2 to 1 to time in the O zone. On another note after the play at the side of Portland goal Steel was crosschecked cross the upper arm and not one of our guys responded. Im with Chopper we need to get tougher'
One of the observation from "the Dub From Above" is the team that are consistent in lines and pairing are more successful than the teams that keep changing.

[patsdude114]

Can't go running to protect steel everytime someone breathes on him, he has to learn to take the odd jab. Look at petan and de Leo they took some shots after the whistle and they gave it right back too, you didn't see a teammate coming to their rescue. I know exactly what play your talking about too Cedholm gave him a some what harmless shot after the whistle and steel looked at the ref right away. As much as I love steels game he is going to have to get tougher and not look at every little thing as a penalty to the ref.

About the game tonight though we out chances Portland all night long we just lack finish especially Wagner, this guy could have 10 goals this year already but he can't finish. Outside of the goals Portland actually scored they had very little threat during the game but you can tell they have been a top team for the last 4yrs cause when they get a chance they actually score.

[chopper]

Interesting game last night. Played a perimeter game for the most part, shooting from every bad angle we could. Only about 3 or 4 grade "A" chances. Wagner's don't count!:rolleyes: Didn't win many battles along the boards. Gay, Padakin and Hanson pretty much invisible.

You won't win many games exchanging chances with Portland. They have as good or better speed than us however their talent is much better. We keep trying to score off the rush and it's not happening. We need better work along the wall. Win the boards man!

Smith, Cole, and McAmmmond were our best physical line all nite. They got a couple decent chances because of it. Steel got abused somewhat last night and he got how many points? He also knows there is nobody on his line or this team who will likely step up.

Teams know if you push Steel and Klimchuk around, you've got the Pats half beaten already. Add another softy like Padakin on that line and play them physical, and you got nothing. They can play looesy goosey evey night and all it will amount to is losses.

Close counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, not sport. We need a rugged winger and d-man. We also need to develop and identity which we don't have now. Our last three losses were on the special teams. You can't win anything with the worst PK in the league.

We're trying to play a skill game with some not so skilled guys. We will never be able to score the way Portland can and has. We need to use our speed game and integrate with some puck possession in the O-zone. Paddock has also got to fix special teams.

[witness]

I agree that the fourth line was effective. Portland put on a physical push and there was little to no push back from the Pats. I am not saying they need a goon, just need to be more physical.

Not impressed with Gay's game. Total perimeter player and no board battle.
Lots of guys that played OK but not great. Zborovsky struggled, but I thought that Hilsendanger has been playing well.

My shot at the lines:
Klimchuck-Steel-Hunt (this line needs some grit)
Padakin-D'Amico-Gay
Christoffer-Brooks-Wagner (been the most consistant lately)
Cole/Zimmer-Kroeker/Smith-McAmmond (I really like Kroeker, I think he has a huge upside)

Defensively, I think the top four are:
Burroughs/Williams
Harrison/Hilsendager

After the last couple of home games, I think that Zborovsky might need to sit out a couple of games, just to get the speed of the game.

I don't know how long they are going to continue with the Hanson experiment. I will give him credit, he seems to be willing to play anywhere. But, with his lack of experience on the backend, I just can't see him being a top 4 guy and he is taking icetime away from the younger guys.

[Shooter]

Chopper:

Steel or Klimmer did not get abused. Hitting is still allowed in hockey.

- We have to score even strength goals along with Power play goals.
- If you do not score 3-5 goals a night you don't deserve to win in this league or any league.
- Time to explore some options as I believe we have guys being under utilized on front end. Give the young gunners ic time for a month and evaluate report card...I think our record would be as good or better!
- Christopher gets demoted to 3rd line?
- Zborovsky is tired and needs a break. Turnover after turnover
- Centre support is aweful on breakout

Defensively, we have top 3
Burroughs/Williams Harrison
Other need more experience and we need 1 more d man that can play shutdown role somewhat or a ng season or bite bullet and play to gain experience.

Christopher and Cole are the only players hat finish checks on this team right now as forwards.

On defence its hit and miss and seen some games that are d punish by right now way too nice!

[Bighat]

We are too small on the backend either Williams or Burroughs has to be traded. Williams is not strong enough to knock anyone off the puck. He is a decent d man but we have too many similar guys and to me would be the one moved unless you plan on keeping him as a 20 next then you have to move Burroughs. Wagner is getting closer each game at least he made the goalie make saves last nite lol. With a couple of moves we will be right there, just some tinkering. Most important is a big mobile dman. It will cost us but we have assets.

[chopper]

Chopper:

Steel or Klimmer did not get abused. Hitting is still allowed in hockey.

- We have to score even strength goals along with Power play goals.
- If you do not score 3-5 goals a night you don't deserve to win in this league or any league.
- Time to explore some options as I believe we have guys being under utilized on front end. Give the young gunners ic time for a month and evaluate report card...I think our record would be as good or better!
- Christopher gets demoted to 3rd line?
- Zborovsky is tired and needs a break. Turnover after turnover
- Centre support is aweful on breakout

Defensively, we have top 3
Burroughs/Williams Harrison
Other need more experience and we need 1 more d man that can play shutdown role somewhat or a ng season or bite bullet and play to gain experience.

Christopher and Cole are the only players hat finish checks on this team right now as forwards.

On defence its hit and miss and seen some games that are d punish by right now way too nice!

I agree with lot of what your saying but do you really think this team is deep enough to score 3-5 goals each night? I have been saying for months now that we need defensive help. We also need a tough gritty winger(s) because we are not winning enough battles in the offensive zone. You win or lose games along the wall. If we keep trying to score off the rush then 1 or 2 goals per game will be the norm. Not having a stout d-man is one of the reasons the PK is so poor.

So far this season I've watched every game home and away. Steel and other rookies have been abused. Steel a bit more than others. No WINNING team allows it's 16 year old to be abused plain and simple. If you do they will start to back off. Absolutely guaranteed. Steel took uncalled for crap last night as did Klimchuk. You don't let the stars get the business or soon they will be hurt, and you'll be out of business. By the 3rd period Klimchuk was completely perimeter. That whole line was useless. Portland had it figured out.

Young players and young stars need to be an asset that's looked after. Last year nobody dared touch Barzal in Seattle or you would be dealing with Hickman, Yakabowski or Wardley. You get the picture? In any successful business you look after your assets.

I have no problem with a kid being hit cleanly but there are hits, and then there are hits. There are some rules and understandings out there on the ice that some teams don't adhere to. That's when a youngster has to know somebody has his back.

I think there will be a lot of nights full of frustration with a younger inexperienced team. If management is committed to going this way then we have to adapt. The will likely be under .500 overall and miss the layoffs. I just hope the assets are protected.

[patsdude114]

I have said all along this team will struggle to make the playoffs and we would fight til the final month for the 8th seed..... Now yes I know I said this before the playoff format was changed but it is still adaptable to even the current format.

Our biggest problem has been scoring te defense hasn't been that bad at all, we lack finish and Padakin was suppose to help with that but my God has he been a pos pick up. He was definitely a player that benefitted from being in a strong cgy team last year.

We do need alittle more grit both on forward and defense, do we fill that need remains to be seen. Lethbridge has a lot of grit but no skill (cause they traded is all away) a small trade with them would make sense for us but I guess let's see what happens. Paddock has said from day 1 he is here in junior to develop kids so does he care for adding gritty guys not sure....

[RWAH]

Shooter: I agree that hitting is part of hockey but a crosscheck to the upper arm after the whistle is not. If the young players have to continue to take that abuse they regress and become timid perimeter players and the other teams win. It has been said here many times we don't need a goon but we do need some grit. Players that have the talent to play in the league and are tough to play against and wil protect and defend their team mates. Those players are hard to find and carry a price tag. I think we missed one in Reid Duke and not sure if we are being proactive to find one. Maybe the Town Hall meeting will shed some light.

[Bartholamew]

This weekend should be a good opportunity for the pats to get back above 500. They should be rested and a little home cooking should be good for the boys. I would like to see the coaching staff split up the D pairings and share the experience a little more evenly thoughout the pairings. Lets split up Bouroughs and Williams and put them with Reagan and Hilsendager. The older boys could help the younger boys out possitionally. It would spread out the ice time a little and would keep Borroughs and Williams from fatigueing in the late going and for the PP.

[crashnbang]

Shooter: I agree that hitting is part of hockey but a crosscheck to the upper arm after the whistle is not. If the young players have to continue to take that abuse they regress and become timid perimeter players and the other teams win. It has been said here many times we don't need a goon but we do need some grit. Players that have the talent to play in the league and are tough to play against and wil protect and defend their team mates. Those players are hard to find and carry a price tag. I think we missed one in Reid Duke and not sure if we are being proactive to find one. Maybe the Town Hall meeting will shed some light.

What exactly do you think the Town Hall meeting will shed some light on? I can't imagine they get into many details on players they are seeking. Too bad for Zimmer, I blame last years coaching staff including Chad Lang for his recent reassignment. If you keep a player in the WHL as a 16 year old, you don't sit him for 59 mins a night and you don't scratch him for as many games as possible. That drives the confidence down and is very hard for a young kid to deal with. With that said, he had to be the guy to go right now, unfortunately somewhat out of his control because of an extremely limited opportunity. There should be a WHL rule that 16 year olds must appear in 80% of games unless injured, that would force teams to use them or send them down where they will most likely develop better and come in with more confidence as a 17 year old. Most 16 year olds just aren't ready. I see the current roster staying in tact for a while unless we can unload Klimchuk for one or two current/future stars, Hansen may be in on the deal as well. Also, I hope he proves me wrong but I'd be tempted to move Reagan while he still has some value because I'm not seeing the upside a 2nd round pick should be showing at this point.

[patsdude114]

the only match up Paddock has cared about is the D pairing of Williams and Burroughs against the other teams top line. They have both done a great job 5on5 at shutting teams top lines down. I don't see these guys getting split up any time soon either, like ive said before our defense isn't hurting us its our goal scoring ability (or lack there of) that is hurting us along with our horrid PK which has been a problem ever since Curtis Hunt was our coach so that's what 4-5yrs now with a brutal PK

[crashnbang]

I agree with lot of what your saying but do you really think this team is deep enough to score 3-5 goals each night? I have been saying for months now that we need defensive help. We also need a tough gritty winger(s) because we are not winning enough battles in the offensive zone. You win or lose games along the wall. If we keep trying to score off the rush then 1 or 2 goals per game will be the norm. Not having a stout d-man is one of the reasons the PK is so poor.

So far this season I've watched every game home and away. Steel and other rookies have been abused. Steel a bit more than others. No WINNING team allows it's 16 year old to be abused plain and simple. If you do they will start to back off. Absolutely guaranteed. Steel took uncalled for crap last night as did Klimchuk. You don't let the stars get the business or soon they will be hurt, and you'll be out of business. By the 3rd period Klimchuk was completely perimeter. That whole line was useless. Portland had it figured out.

Young players and young stars need to be an asset that's looked after. Last year nobody dared touch Barzal in Seattle or you would be dealing with Hickman, Yakabowski or Wardley. You get the picture? In any successful business you look after your assets.

I have no problem with a kid being hit cleanly but there are hits, and then there are hits. There are some rules and understandings out there on the ice that some teams don't adhere to. That's when a youngster has to know somebody has his back.

I think there will be a lot of nights full of frustration with a younger inexperienced team. If management is committed to going this way then we have to adapt. The will likely be under .500 overall and miss the layoffs. I just hope the assets are protected.

If you think Steel and other rookies are being abused now, wait until things actually escalate and there is reason to be intimidated. There hasn't been much abuse yet at all but it will be coming as I agree we don't really have much ability to stop it. Smith is supposed to be one of our tough guys, that will be a lot of pressure on him and he might be able to fill that role for now but wait until 25 games in and see if he is still comfortable playing that style and dropping the mitts often when he is already sore and tired of being that guy. Cole sure plays with an edge and I'd be surprised if he's not leading the team in hits or right near the top, especially considering such limited ice time. He could be a guy to pair up with some skill and open up some ice. Unlucky bounce with puck sitting on goal line last game. Padakin was invisible again last game.

[Fight Guy]

Krushen re-called.