What ARE We?

[dondo]

As we pass the quarter pole I am frustrated. Not the loss to Kelowna particularly as they really are the real deal (mostly their top line) and are getting some out this world golatending from nobodies - weird. Anyway the team continues to play small, Ward's offensive focus leaves huge holes in the boys own end if they aren't willing to hustle back hard on the back-check which lately they have been.

Our drafting system and scouting arrangement needs to be imploded. Ripplinger should have been gone three years ago not re-signed. I am looking at you Toigo - your misplaced "loyalties" have marginalised a team which should be a destination that players are hungry to be a part of not a place to be avoided. You no longer have the "it's all Don Hay's fault we can't draft the players we really want bullsh*te". Time to step up and dump a couple of our eight under-sized forwards, get a true shutdown D-man on the back-end and shuffle out the under-performing OAs like Bellerive. We need hungry, tenacious, vicious, bottom six players like McEvoy, size - hunger and intensity. I mean who hell is Holterhus? He's huge and plays smaller than Ronning. Jesse Roach ditto, bigger guy who pretends to play big, but never really puts the hunger and intensity into the game so far.

We have a handle on the team we have now and it is unable to compete, completely useless on the road (yeah yeah 1 goals games blah blah blah - only adds up to not being able to hold onto or battle for a win). We are getting back two skilled players who duplicate what we already have. Time for a serious quarter pole season assessment and dump the chaff. I also suspect that some players are not so good in the room, despite protestations other-wise. I would even be happy picking up disgruntled players on top teams who feel they can produice with more ice-time with the focus being hungry and team players. Time for a few small trades for depth and intensity and maybe a few bigger ones for impact. Time to shake up the room. We don't sell the farm of course, but we have multiples which are not adding up.

I understand that the prices currently being asked are high, but there are always some players to get for picks who just need a place to play where they can be hungry and ascend the roster. Obviously Benson and McKinstry are two to keep and there are some untouchables, but really we have duplications and under-performers which are expendable. Some I might even be sad to see go, but we are not progressing and if the fans are getting frustrated then the boys are too.

We also lack an indentity. What are we? Are we a skilled team? Are we a hungry team? We are not tough to play against, we don't frighten other teams with our skill. If we are rebuidling and developing where is the marked progress? What kind of team do we want to be? What is our focus? If we are developing youngs players why do we play marginal OAs in the top six?

[Giantsfan]

Yeah, I can't argue with your rant. I've been calling for a change for years now. Hay's gone, but the team is filled with holes. A few of us fans have been wondering why this team is regressing but I saw it coming last season.

Last season around this time they went on that incredible run of points in 19 of 21 games, something to that effect. Yes, but once Thrower got injured the season was done. He was THAT valuable to the Giants.

The biggest improvements I see so far is the goaltending. Both Porter & Lee have been better than expected. They may have an off night but overall they have been great.

Mason Geertsen. Yes, he continues to cough the puck up several times a game but he has really ramped up his physical play. He's got decent point totals as well. He probably won't be back next season as a 20 yr old. Enjoy watching him while the team has him.

Tyler Benson. Definitely the real deal. Better than advertised. I was a little skeptical after watching him go pointless in the few games he played though you could see some improvement. He's been great. Throws the body, plays with some grit & can break open a game. Too bad they don't have someone to play with him.

Arvin Atwal. He was going pretty good until Crunk broke his nose. He's got a decent shot & plays with grit.

Other than those guys, I really don't care who they move. This team has no identity & are way too easy to play against. The Coliseum used to be a place where teams had to really work their assses off if they expected to get a win.

The empty seats game in game out for the last 3 seasons is a really telling sign that people are fed up & that the team doesn't have a marketable name. Most people don't even know who Benson is. Not myself, but most like to support a winner & this team hasn't won a playoff round in four years & this year looks like another with no playoffs.

[Giantsfan]

Vancouver Giants general manager Scott Bonner is playing the patience card with the team’s 7-11-0-0 start.

Vancouver dropped a 5-0 decision on the road to the Kelowna Rockets Saturday night, marking their third straight loss and seventh in eight games. They’re 19th in the 22-team WHL so far.

Asked about possible trades to get the team out of the doldrums, Bonner seemed steadfast Sunday about sticking with the current group.

“I’m not too worried about the record yet, considering we’ve faced a ‘Murderers’ Row,’ of opponents lately,” said Bonner, whose team has played the Rockets twice in the past five games, along with single contests against the Everett Silvertips and Brandon Wheat Kings.

“Trades can come at any time, should they improve our team or our team’ s identity. We won’t be moving any core players. We’ve acquired tons of future pieces over the past few seasons and it’s time to focus on roster issues.

“I would really like to see our full team for a bit to know exactly what we’ve got.”

Translation: Vancouver isn’t in the hunt for disgruntled Calgary Hitmen forward Greg Chase. And don’t expect a major offer to Sam Reinhart, who’s just back with the Kootenay Ice.

Vancouver has been without key 16 year olds Tyler Benson, a left winger, and Ryely McKinstry, for the past five games. They’ve been away at the Under-17 world challenge in Sarnia, Ont.

The tournament ended Saturday. Both Benson and McKinstry should be back in the Vancouver line-up Wednesday, when the the Tri-City Americans visit the Pacific Coliseum (7 p.m., TSN 1410).

Seventeen-year-old wingers Ty Ronning (collar bone) and Jakob Stukel (hand) have both been on the Vancouver injured list for the long term. Ronning was hurt in exhibition action. Stukel got into two regular season games.

The Giants have remained coy about their returns, but they haven’t been practising with the team, so you’d think that neither will be suiting up in game action anytime soon.

The WHL injured list has them both as “indefinite".

I heard Ronning is mid December & Stukel has been skating for a few weeks now. Either way, I'm not holding my breath waiting for them to save the season.

[Lucic]

“I’m not too worried about the record yet, considering we’ve faced a ‘Murderers’ Row,’ of opponents lately,” said Bonner, whose team has played the Rockets twice in the past five games, along with single contests against the Everett Silvertips and Brandon Wheat Kings.

They keep harping on this but it's really irrelevant, IMO. Sure those are tough opponents but the Giants were losing games prior to this stretch of games. They lost two winnable games against Victoria and got blown out by Kamloops. The only real valid point in that article is they haven't had a healthy squad. And I'm sure the team is better when they are completely healthy. But I'm not convinced they are so much better that it'll make a significant difference. Stukel and Ronning aren't going to add much defensively or prevent pucks from going into the net. Nor are they going to add size and grit up front. If anything they make the team even smaller (if that's even possible). There are too many of the same type of player on this team and not enough ice time (or offensive contribution by most of them).

There are a lot of decisions that will have to be made at some point. I don't know what the answer is but a shake up is absolutely required, IMO.

[Giantsfan]

As you know I've been a huge supporter of Bonner, but I'm starting to believe that the team needs a complete revamp. The drafting has been pretty weak. I'm just not sold on this team even when healthy. Ronning & Stukel aren't such elite players that their return won't make the Gmen contenders. Also, not wanting to move core players...who are they?

[Lucic]

I hear you. I've been losing faith in Bonner as well over the past couple of years. What is truly scary is how the scouting staff all got extensions not that long ago. After such horrid drafting how does that make any sense? Mind boggling to say the least.

[Priceisright]

Who are the core players? To be honest they all look the same to me. Oh well.

[Giantsfan]

Bonner mentions the "murderers row of opponents" but when your team is near or at the bottom every game is a tough game to win. That is also a bit of a cop-out because their record in Kelowna has never been good.

I was looking at the WHL.ca page today thinking Tri-City is a winnable game. Then seeing they have four straight wins, are 6-4 in their last ten games & have allowed less goals than the Giants have in two more games. The Giants also seem to struggle against Tri-City though they did get at least one win vs them last season.

After this, it's Victoria, who the Giants have had some success against this season, then back on the road for a double header in PG & the Giants failed to get any points in PG last time.

So realistically, the Giants could get a few points out of the next 4 games. If that doesn't happen, is Bonner still going to "stick with the current group"?

At what point does the plan take a detour?

As for his "core" players, I'm sure we can all guess it's players like Popoff, Houck Bear, Sward, Bellerive, Hamilton, Geertsen, Atwal & Benson. And don't forget saviors like Ronning & Stukel.

[dondo]

I'm sorry, but Victoria, PG and Kamloops constitute Murders Row? We should have split in both Victoria and PG, we probably should not have won in Seattle.

Also you have to remember that early in the season we were coming back in games for the win at home, so if you factor that kind of play in we were really playing above our weight class early and have a better record than we should have at home. This team really misses Benson the same way that they missed Thrower before he came to the club and after he was injured. It's distressing how much impact one player can have and also fantastic.

Bellerive without Benson as a line-mate is awful. Foster needs to bounce back after having his eight game point streak snapped and needs to find the back of the net. Maybe Benson was reason he had more open ice as well.

I have been pleasantly surprised by our goaltending duo and they are giving the players a chance to win most nights. Houck and Popoff have to score and score lots. They both have the skill, but have struggled mightily lately.

Our back-end needs to play bigger. They are capable, but lately seem smaller than they are. I liked Kirichenko early, but he has been doing fly-bys as opposed to finishing checks lately.

The question remains: Who is this team? What is their identity? They not are the high scoring puck possession team their coach wants. They do not put fear into other teams. They are not a defensive stalwart. They feel rudder-less and lacking direction to me. They lack focus and regualrly take period(s) off before rebounding (successful or not). I'm currently questioning Ward's motivational skills.

I am happy that Benson returns soon to bring if not flash, at least stability to the squad. I don't vote for imploding the whole team, but I do not think you can have a record like this at the quarter pole and not be considering dealing some duplications in the line-up. Too many Lamoureux types for me on this team who inconsistently show up and sleep-walk through some games.

[Giantsfan]

You're gonna have to wait a little longer than expected as Benson won't be playing tomorrow night vs Tri-City. He suffered a minor lower body injury at the under 17 tournament & will be scratched. Just when it appears that the Giants have a winnable game, losing Benson isn't what the team needs.

[johnnyradiant]

Driving home from the Fri night game last week, on the radio they are telling us they just seem to be facing wave after wave of upper echelon teams. No kidding. Have you looked at the standings? Giants current position puts most teams in an upper echelon than where the Giants currently squat.

I don't agree that most of our players look alike. There are 1/2 a dozen I see maybe a 1/4 of a shift and go 'oh yeah, that kid plays for us" then check his stats and see he has played most games. Meaning, some of our players I guess do look alike but like Casper the Ghost.

I don't see 2 smaller guys joining the crew being difference makers, unless they are stacked up behind the goalie and don't count as 2 of the 5 skaters.

The nice thing about the attendance this year are the odds of winning the 50/50 should be better if you buy a tix.

[Giantsfan]

Benson won't play Saturday vs Victoria. I hear he suffered a shoulder injury in the first game of the under 17 tournament & the Giants aren't happy that they played him anyways.

Is anyone else tired of the "we haven't had our full lineup yet" excuse. You can't keep using that as a crutch. Face it, teams have injuries & the difference is either players step up or not. It's not like having Ronning & Stukel are elite players. It's only a matter of time for at least one of them to get injured again.