Why Are Giants Doing So Poorly

[Swando]

I was going to respond to an earlier post about his comment " another 1st round dud" but I thought this post might enlighten some of you as to why we are such a poor team right now!! Let's start with our 1st round draft picks since 2008.

1st rounders are usually the elite of the bantam drafts and can carry a team much as Brule, Fistric, Evander Kane,Sexsmith and Wright(?) Reese was a pick we traded to get Rabbit who was a big part of our Mem Cup

1. 2008 - Spooner---------complete BUST
2. 2009 - Hodder - injuries but near as bad as Spooner - BUST
3. 2010 - Sward - A for effort but not worthy of a 1st round - semi bust
4. 2011 - Ast - yes I would call him a BUST
5. 2012 - Foster - could live with this pick if others were better (ok)
6. 2013 - Benson - 1st overall pick - no brainer!! Scouts can not take credit
7. 2013 - Barberis - to be seen - played a few games .. nothing special
8. 2014 - Holt - did not play a game with team as is usual with WHL 1'sts??
9. 2014 - Semchuk - played a couple games early. Seems ok??

Looking at our 1st 6 years of existence and then seeing our last 7 you have to wonder.. You can say" oh the Giants picked near the front in the first few years.. --Fistric and Brule were no brainers but the rest are just like our last 7 years.

I may come up with 2nd round analysis if I have time.

[Giantsfan]

I'm a Foster fan but you have to consider him a bust. Realistically he's not a point producer & 1st rounders have to be or be a top goalie or defenseman.

I like Foster because he's gritty, not afraid to get his nose dirty & he's willing to fight for a teammate. He's a good penalty killer & a solid two way player but not much of a scorer. He's one of the guys on the team I hope they keep around.

Funny because Noel has given Ronning pp time but has Foster had time on the pp?

[Knuckles Muldoon]

Drafting has been bad, player development has been worse.
Another thing is that back in the past, the team had lots of players working to become professional players. And during 2005-2009ish, there were many such players on the team at once. They worked to push each other and made each other accountable.
Now look at the current roster. How many of these guys can even dream of seeing the NHL? I count 2...Geertsen and Benson. Nobody else will be within a million miles of the NHL. The push isn't there. The end goal isn't there. These guys are just putting in time and earning their post-secondary tuition.

Things sure have changed.

[Priceisright]

Speaking of development lol, what about our goalies of the past. Who was our last good goalie? Nevermind we traded Whistle who is a good goalie. Wasn't Lee a first or second pick? He only had one year of hockey having a save percentage over .900. The rest well under. :( bust? I remember hear so much buzz about him from the giants brass.

Probably dustin slade or sexsmith.

Where is porter? Injured? He doesn't play anymore?

Side note: are playoff teams determined the same way as usual or has it changed this year?

[MeszarosFan]

Speaking of development lol, what about our goalies of the past. Who was our last good goalie? Nevermind we traded Whistle who is a good goalie. Wasn't Lee a first or second pick? He only had one year of hockey having a save percentage over .900. The rest well under. :( bust? I remember hear so much buzz about him from the giants brass.

You cannot judge a goalies performance like this when the team playing in front of him is full of holes and constantly having defensive meltdowns. Whistle would not have been a good goaltender if he had stayed with the Giants. The Rockets are a much sounder team defensively that limits scoring chances and gives the goaltender much better odds of posting wins. Lee, Porter and Kubic all have the potential to be really good - but they need a team in front of them that gives them a chance. Currently we don't have that, and baring major upgrades in the off-season we won't next season either. Trade any or all of these guys away to better teams and they will burn us, guaranteed.

[Giantsfan]

Name one Rocket goaltender that has made the NHL? They've had some good defensive teams in front of their goalies. None of them, Guard, Jung, Brown, etc have made the NHL. Whistle isn't drafted as far as I can think of either.

BTW Porter is not injured. Noel is just going with Lee. He has rotated going with a goalie for long stretches. I'm sure Porter will play at least one of the games vs the Royals.

[dondo]

Drafting has been bad, player development has been worse.
Another thing is that back in the past, the team had lots of players working to become professional players. And during 2005-2009ish, there were many such players on the team at once. They worked to push each other and made each other accountable.
Now look at the current roster. How many of these guys can even dream of seeing the NHL? I count 2...Geertsen and Benson. Nobody else will be within a million miles of the NHL. The push isn't there. The end goal isn't there. These guys are just putting in time and earning their post-secondary tuition.

Things sure have changed.

Agreed knuckles - one of things that really came home this year for me is how poorly we are developing the players we do draft. Unless the player has an innate sense and innate hunger our coaches and mentors are not making them any better. In the past several years I have seen new players that have skills and potential and look forward to how much better they are going to be next year (maybe it's just wishful thinking) and then being woefully disappointed at how little they progress and how their skills either drop or same the same.

The one thing Hay did when he was an effective coach here was to make average players better and instill a work ethic that made all of the players responsible, committed and eager to get on the ice. I really miss seeing players hustle hard to the bench on line-changes.

I suppose the parent and agent interference we have seen increase the past few years and other outside factors has some players feel personally justified with making excuses for themselves instead of putting in the effort.

I also think that Yogi has to go -- we have in him a skills coach that is not capable of increasing or developing player's raw skill into a full-fleshed out better skilled player. Often we find the inherent skill-set a player comes with to the team is watered down or stunted during their tenure here.

Question: if we did draft Nic Petan as we could have - would he be the same kind elite talent he has shown on Portland. Sadly I don't think so and that does not bode well for the future.

[johnnyradiant]

Agreed knuckles - one of things that really came home this year for me is how poorly we are developing the players we do draft. Unless the player has an innate sense and innate hunger our coaches and mentors are not making them any better. In the past several years I have seen new players that have skills and potential and look forward to how much better they are going to be next year (maybe it's just wishful thinking) and then being woefully disappointed at how little they progress and how their skills either drop or same the same.

The one thing Hay did when he was an effective coach here was to make average players better and instill a work ethic that made all of the players responsible, committed and eager to get on the ice. I really miss seeing players hustle hard to the bench on line-changes.

I suppose the parent and agent interference we have seen increase the past few years and other outside factors has some players feel personally justified with making excuses for themselves instead of putting in the effort.

I also think that Yogi has to go -- we have in him a skills coach that is not capable of increasing or developing player's raw skill into a full-fleshed out better skilled player. Often we find the inherent skill-set a player comes with to the team is watered down or stunted during their tenure here.

Question: if we did draft Nic Petan as we could have - would he be the same kind elite talent he has shown on Portland. Sadly I don't think so and that does not bode well for the future.

I really miss the days when the players gave it a solid hard effort every shift and RACED back to the bench faster than some of the current crew leave the bench except for maybe the end of a period to get to the dressing room.

[chalk_one_down]

1. 2008 - Spooner---------complete BUST
2. 2009 - Hodder - injuries but near as bad as Spooner - BUST
3. 2010 - Sward - A for effort but not worthy of a 1st round - semi bust
4. 2011 - Ast - yes I would call him a BUST
5. 2012 - Foster - could live with this pick if others were better (ok)
6. 2013 - Benson - 1st overall pick - no brainer!! Scouts can not take credit
7. 2013 - Barberis - to be seen - played a few games .. nothing special
...

Just for fun, I had a look at who was picked soon after:
1. 2007 - Spooner (G Tyler Bunz & Kent Simpson, C/RW Josh Nicholls, D Joe Morrow)
2. 2008 - Hodder (RW Mitch Holmberg, D Zac Yuen & Tyler Wotherspoon, G Laurent Brossoit)
3. 2009 - Sward (LW Taylor Leier & Mitch Moroz, C Troy Bourke)
4. 2010 - Ast (C Tim McGauley & Greg Chase, D Madison Bowey)
5. 2011 - Foster (C Conner Bleackley was the next pick)
2012 - Ronning (RW Keegan Kolesar)
6. 2013 - Benson - 1st overall pick - no brainer!! Scouts can not take credit
7. 2013 - Barberis (C/LW Dillon Dube)

[dondo]

Just for fun, I had a look at who was picked soon after:
1. 2007 - Spooner (G Tyler Bunz & Kent Simpson, C/RW Josh Nicholls, D Joe Morrow)
2. 2008 - Hodder (RW Mitch Holmberg, D Zac Yuen & Tyler Wotherspoon, G Laurent Brossoit)
3. 2009 - Sward (LW Taylor Leier & Mitch Moroz, C Troy Bourke)
4. 2010 - Ast (C Tim McGauley & Greg Chase, D Madison Bowey)
5. 2011 - Foster (C Conner Bleackley was the next pick)
2012 - Ronning (RW Keegan Kolesar)
6. 2013 - Benson - 1st overall pick - no brainer!! Scouts can not take credit
7. 2013 - Barberis (C/LW Dillon Dube)

In 2010 the Giants actually traded down to get Ast -- they had the position to pick Nic Petan, Sam Reinhart and Mason Geertsen -- explain that to me Bonner and your useless crew of scouts.