Memorial Cup Format Question

[scrunt]

Can someone please explain the Memorial Cup format please?

I know it starts as a round robin between the four teams, but what happens after that?

Does the top team on the round robin get a bye to the finals, with 2 & 3 playing a semi-final? What are the tie-breakers, and what has to happen for the if-necessary tie breaker game to become necessary?

Sadly, the WHL, CHL and Mastercard Memorial Cup websites are terrible for providing such basic info (and even worse for allowing simple navigation between themselves).

Thanks,

scrunt

[Beaner]

Ok it starts with a round robin tournament, every team plays a total of 3 games.

--Teams play Overtime there are no Tie games in the tournament.

1st place gets a bye into the Finals.

2nd/3rd place play a semi-final match, winner goes intot he Finals, loser goes home.

4th place goes home.

If their is a tie, then they play a tiebreaker game. I believe the Tie-breaker only applies to a tie for 3rd place. A tie for 1st place, and the winner of the head to head, gets 1st.

[scrunt]

Hmmmm, :spineyes:

If one team goes 3-0, it is possible for a three way tie for second at 1-2. Obviously, in this case head-to-head results cannot be used to break a three way tie. I suppose it would be unfair for one of those teams to be eliminated from contention on a statistical tie-breaker, hence the if-necessary game. But, what is used to decide who gets second place and which two play for third? Goal differential?

If a team goes 0-3, there can be a three way tie for first at 2-1. In this case, none of the three tied teams would be eliminated, so a statistical tie-breaker only decides who gets the bye.

Other scenarios:

Two teams at 2-1, two at 1-2. In these cases, head-to-head results could be the tie-breakers.

3-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-3 -- No ties, standings are clear.

I think I've got it! :bounce:

except for what the statistical tie-breaker is, that is...

[Beaner]

Hmmmm, :spineyes:

If one team goes 3-0, it is possible for a three way tie for second at 1-2. Obviously, in this case head-to-head results cannot be used to break a three way tie. I suppose it would be unfair for one of those teams to be eliminated from contention on a statistical tie-breaker, hence the if-necessary game. But, what is used to decide who gets second place and which two play for third? Goal differential?

If a team goes 0-3, there can be a three way tie for first at 2-1. In this case, none of the three tied teams would be eliminated, so a statistical tie-breaker only decides who gets the bye.

Other scenarios:

Two teams at 2-1, two at 1-2. In these cases, head-to-head results could be the tie-breakers.

3-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-3 -- No ties, standings are clear.

I think I've got it! :bounce:

except for what the statistical tie-breaker is, that is...

Bah your right so I did some research. I have to know how it works. :laugh:

Ok I found out, looking at past Tournaments.



With the win, the Hull Olympiques advance to the Memorial Cup final Sunday afternoon against the winner of Saturday's semifinal between the Lethbridge Hurricanes and the Oshawa Generals. The Sagueneens, who lost all three tournament games, were eliminated.
Although Lethbridge, Oshawa and Hull all finished with 2-1 records, the Olympiques had a better goal differential (total goals scored minus total goals against for the entire tournament) than the other two.

I guess that the tiebreaker only comes into play if there is a tie between 3/4. The logic being that sending a team home based on Goal Diferential sucks.

[dondo]

yeah not a great way to decide the final positions ... so I guess we'll just have to go 3-0 to avoid that situation :thumb:

so how many games total?
14?

or am I a mathematically inept?

as I see it - it's four teams each playing three games, semi-final, and final 12-1-1 plus possible playoffs for 3/4.. is that right?

[Beaner]

No Dondo:

6 Round Robin games Total.

1 Tie-Breaker if necessary

1 Semi Final Game

1 Finals.

[dondo]

how do you get six? - each team plays the other team ONCE in round robin correct?.. four teams, you don't play yourself.. so if every team 4, plays each team once then it should be..

hmmm...

A
B
C
D

A plays B, C, D
B plays C, D
C plays D

like this then?

dammit... i was getting all excited there... :p .... :D thx beaner..

[RunTheGoalie]

The full schedule can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Memorial_Cup

The Giants really got screwed by the schedule here. Three games in four nights. They really gave the Q teams a friendly schedule compared to Vancouver and Peterborough.

[WHEATMAN]

any idea when this format was adopted? It has been like this for as long as I can remember

[RunTheGoalie]

The CHL has used the four team format since 1983, though I am not certain if it has always been a round robin tournament.

[OHLArenaGuide]

The full schedule can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Memorial_Cup

The Giants really got screwed by the schedule here. Three games in four nights. They really gave the Q teams a friendly schedule compared to Vancouver and Peterborough.

It might surprise you to learn that the WHL always plays the same schedule in years they don't host it. Kelowna had the same schedule last year.

The host league always gets the best schedule with no back to back games for either of its teams. In return the two visiting league teams get to play as the "home" team twice.

[eecliff]

The CHL has used the four team format since 1983, though I am not certain if it has always been a round robin tournament.

(Sorry if this has all ready been posted but this site is screwed up as it will not allow me to view any pages other than the first page of each thread. I will soon give up on them trying to solve the problem and will post elsewhere)

The History of the Memorial Cup

In March of 1919 the Ontario Hockey Association donated the OHA Memorial Cup to honour and remember the many young men and women who made the supreme sacrifice for Canada in World War I. Since 1919 the Memorial Cup has been awarded to Canada's National Junior Champions and in London in May of 2005 this prestigious and storied trophy will be presented for the 87th time.

The names on the Memorial Cup include many of the game of hockey's greatest builders, coaches, managers and players. Thirty one members of the Hockey Hall of Fame have had their names engraved on the Memorial Cup including players like Guy Lafleur, Andy Bathgate, Harry Howell, Bobby Bauer, Ted Lindsay, Bernie Parent, Red Kelly and Toe Blake. Lionel Conacher, Canada's Athlete of the First Half Century, was a member of the Toronto Canoe Club's winning team in 1920. Conacher was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1961. Builders of the game such as Father David Bauer, Scotty Bowman, Sam Pollack, Glen Sather and Frank Selke were members of Memorial Cup winning teams.

The first Memorial Cup series was a two game total goal series between the University of Toronto Schools, the Eastern Canadian champions and the Western Canadian champions the Regina Pats. The first game of the series was delayed by over an hour to allow fans to greet and honur one of the Canadian regiments that was returning from the Great War. The series, which was played at Toronto's Arena Gardens, was a one sided affair with the UTTS recording a 29-8 total goal win to capture the first ever Memorial Cup.

In the first nine years of its history the Memorial Cup final series was a two game total game series. In 1928 the championship final moved away from this format to become a best of three series. The championship final continued to be contested by two teams with the winners of the various branches of the Canadian Amateur Hockey Association participating in playdowns until with the Eastern Canadian Champions taking on the champions from Western Canada. In 1972 the tournament format was first introduced with the champions of the Western Hockey League, the Ontario Hockey League and the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League participating. In that first tournament the Cornwall Royals, the QMJHL champions, defeated the OHL's Peterborough Petes by a score of 2-1 in the sudden death tournament final.

The 1983 tournament was expanded to four teams for the first time with the introduction of a host team and for the first time the final series for the Memorial Cup was held outside of Canada. The 1983 tournament was played in Portland, Oregon and the host Winter Hawks became the first United States based team to win the Memorial Cup as they defeated the Oshawa Generals 8-3. The tournament returned to Portland three years later and in 1998 Spokane, Washington played host to the 80th Memorial Cup. American based teams have captured the Memorial Cup on three different occaisions with the Winter Hawks winning in 1983 and in 1998 while the Spokane Chiefs were the winners in 1991.

In 1999 the Ottawa 67's and the City of Ottawa played host to the Memorial Cup for the first time since 1972. The Acadie-Bathurst Titan of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League became the first team from Atlantic Canada to qualify for the Memorial Cup finals. The 1999 tournament, won by the host 67's, set a new attendance record as a total of 84,200 fans attended the eight game series.

History was made in 2000 as for the first time ever the Memorial Cup finals were held in the Maritimes. The City of Halifax and the Halifax Mooseheads hosted one of the most successful Memorial Cups as the tournament was held at the Halifax Metro Centre. The eight game tournament attracted close to 80,000 fans with the Rimouski Oceanic winning their first ever Memorial Cup.

The Memorial Cup will continue its proud tradition of honouring the Canadian Hockey League's champions in May of 2005 when the City of London, the London Knights and the Ontario Hockey League will host the tournament finals. The CHL's 56 teams have all started their journey to earn the right to be a part of the proud and storied history of the Memorial Cup.

[Triton]

Have they announced a host for the 2008 Memorial Cup from the OHL yet?

[N.W. Bruin]

any idea when this format was adopted? It has been like this for as long as I can remember

Single round robin for a while than double round robin like what it was in Vancouver in 1977. Each of the three teams in the double round robin played each other twice so a 0 - 2 hole wasn't so bad than as still had two games left. Top two teams advanced to the final. In the days before that the East and West meet. Usually the eastern rep used old Maple Leaf Gardens which has hosted likely thirty Memorial Cup seasons.

[Beaner]

I wonder if maybe going to a double round robin system again would be a better way of going. Doubles the round robin to 12 games, that may be just too many games though.

Maybe just have the double round robin, then a championship game.

[SeventhHeaven4U]

I would personally like to see it played as a series like the Stanley Cup. 1vs4, 2vs3, best of 5 or 7 then have the Finals played in a best of 5 or 7. Would it be beneficial to the teams, the CHL, and the Host City?? I think it would.

Question: Was reading some archives and found out a team could pick up the best goalie from another team in their league for the Cup run.... when was this practice ended?? Was it after the big hubub involving the Broncos n WinterHawks over Vernon?

[SeventhHeaven4U]

Have they announced a host for the 2008 Memorial Cup from the OHL yet?

In the O & Q, teams have to be play-off bound at the mid way point of the season to be awarded the mem cup. There's been rumors of Oshawa, Sarnia, and Mississauga being most likely to bid.

[dondo]

I would personally like to see it played as a series like the Stanley Cup. 1vs4, 2vs3, best of 5 or 7 then have the Finals played in a best of 5 or 7. Would it be beneficial to the teams, the CHL, and the Host City?? I think it would.

Question: Was reading some archives and found out a team could pick up the best goalie from another team in their league for the Cup run.... when was this practice ended?? Was it after the big hubub involving the Broncos n WinterHawks over Vernon?

it would be sweet, but take too long - hockey really does deserve extended series though in my mind as two evenly matched teams can usually beat one another on a given day. It'll never happen though.

Q 2: not my forte but the Remparts picked up Desjardins from Rimouski (who had him in the Cup final last season), but I don't know when they acquired him or under what circumstances - whether or not it was the kind of Marchand deal where he was traded to Vals D'or (for Bourdon I believe) but finished out the season with the Wildcats.

[OHLArenaGuide]

In the O & Q, teams have to be play-off bound at the mid way point of the season to be awarded the mem cup. There's been rumors of Oshawa, Sarnia, and Mississauga being most likely to bid.

Not anymore in the O. They changed the bid process for 2005 because organizing committees didn't have enough time to put together the tournament in six months. Now the O awards about a year in advance; London was awarded the tournament a few weeks before the 2004 Cup in Kelowna.

The Q never did it that way to my knowledge. Moncton was awarded the Cup about as far in advance as Vancouver was relative to when the tournament is.

Your rumours are similar to what I've heard as well. Oshawa is considered the favourite (John Tavares, new arena, MLSE backing), with Sarnia, Mississauga and Kitchener rumoured to be making bids. Kingston plans to as well if their new arena is approved by City Council, and Saginaw may make a bid to gain experience for 2011, when they will probably be the favourite. (The O has never hosted in an American city and Saginaw has by far the best rink of the three.)

In the Q, Shawinigan and Chicoutimi are probably favourites for 2009 (Shawinigan with a new arena coming, Chicoutimi has never been the host team). The Q won't go to two Atlantic Canada cities twice in a row I would think. 2012 you would have to think Saint John or St. John's would be good candidates; both cities have newish 6000+ capacity buildings with luxury boxes and such.

[SeventhHeaven4U]

Ahhh I see, thanks for the update OHL! Have a great summer!

[Beaner]

Question: Was reading some archives and found out a team could pick up the best goalie from another team in their league for the Cup run.... when was this practice ended?? Was it after the big hubub involving the Broncos n WinterHawks over Vernon?

Yes that was the last year teams could do that. 1983 for those wondering.

Dondo - Desjardins was traded to the Remparts in the Summer of '05. Rimouski got a 4th round pick in '06