Is it myself or does Mr. Sutter

[maple leaf]

Have no faith in his scouting team. He seem's to trade away players left, right and centre. Is it his way or the highway in Red Deer. He is a good coach, he has a memorial cup to his credit and gold medal's with the baby nats and the Rebel's are alway's at or near the top every year excluding last year but he still has not done what the Rockets have done ( 3 straight trip's to the memorial cup) and the Blazer's of the 90's. A good coach yes. A good head cook and bottle washer ( maybe ). Remember Mr. Sutter there is no (I) in team.

[SectionNDeserter]

I don't think it really has anything to do with his scouting staff. :skeptical Aside from Andrew Leslie, I think all the players that he has drafted/acquired in the last few seasons have at least had a lot of potential/were WHL quality players. I think he has done everything with these underachieving 18-20 year olds to motivate them, aside from burning them with a cigarette. Since the CHL frowns upon such physical abuse, and with teams giving him decent prospects and draft picks(decent based on the traded player's past performance) what would you rather see him do with the underachieving 18-20 year old players that he has been dumping?

[bandwagonboy]

I think he has done everything with these underachieving 18-20 year olds to motivate them, aside from burning them with a cigarette.

I would not agree with that 100 percent. Jones, Wick, Rome. With those three guys playing to the full potential last year's rebels are easily a playoff team. It seems to me that Sutter has been trading his problems, not fixing them. Those three are players with legitiment talent.


Since the CHL frowns upon such physical abuse, and with teams giving him decent prospects and draft picks(decent based on the traded player's past performance) what would you rather see him do with the underachieving 18-20 year old players that he has been dumping?

If I were a red deer fan I would prefer that he work with these problem childs instead of trading them for not buying into the system or whatever other reason he's getting rid of these players. Wick and Rome never did much after Sutter traded them so you can justify those moves I suppose. But look at what Jones did away from Sutter. You can't for a second say he didn't drop the ball there.

I'm not saying that Sutter is a terrible coach or that he is terrible at developing talent. But the fact is that in the last two years he took alot of time away from his team and has made some bad moves that cost him a playoff spot this season. If you want to point to Red Deer's memorial cup and say Sutter is responsible then you also have to point at last season's poor performence and also say Sutter is responsible. Every team has peaks and valleys but IMHO because of a little bit of neglect and a bad move or two the valley that red deer went through last year was a little deeper than it had to be.

[Tinner]

If I were a red deer fan I would prefer that he work with these problem childs instead of trading them for not buying into the system or whatever other reason he's getting rid of these players. Wick and Rome never did much after Sutter traded them so you can justify those moves I suppose. But look at what Jones did away from Sutter. You can't for a second say he didn't drop the ball there.



There are other reasons players get traded away, including, but not limited to, the reasons mentioned in the above quote. Players an coaches sometimes simply, don't get along, for whatever reasons. Unfortunately for the players here, if you challenge or don't get along with the coach, they don't have a next step to go to (general manager or owner) because he's all of them.

[SectionNDeserter]

I would not agree with that 100 percent. Jones,I thought what we acquired for Jones was adequate for what we gave up, and it was clear that he was not comfortable playing under a strict defensive system, and probably never would.


Wick,100% Floater, would have been happy if he just released him.


Rome.I have to agree with you on this one, it was strictly a personality conflict with Sutter, as he seemed to be producing the goods on the ice. If it wasn't a personality conflict, then someone just made Sutter an offer he couldn't refuse


With those three guys playing to the full potential last year's rebels are easily a playoff team. It seems to me that Sutter has been trading his problems, not fixing them. Those three are players with legitiment talent.Jones was half the player he was this year when we traded him last year. Any team that Wick is successful on, is carrying him. The Rome trade got us a good player (Versteeg), and a bad player (Chapman) so that one could have gone either way.


You can't for a second say he didn't drop the ball there. The style of game Jones plays, if he had played on Red Deer this season surrounded by rookies, he would be about -60. We missed Zetariuk way more than we did Jones. Bottom line is, you don't change your entire philosophy and team's tactics to accomidate one player. All these players had ample time to adjust to the team's philosophy and tactics and chose not to. This is when it is time to remove the players from the team, and swap them for players that will (or may) be more willing to follow the coaches game plan. Sutter's absense from the team may or may not have had an impact on their performance last year, but obviously Brent felt this way since he declined a 3rd trip to the World Junior Tournament, citing this as the reason.

[WHL Rules]

I would not agree with that 100 percent. Jones, Wick, Rome. With those three guys playing to the full potential last year's rebels are easily a playoff team.

Rome was acquired in a trade that sent Jones to MJ, so your statement is a little hypothetical. ;)

As for Sutter not working with his problem children, he also traded for other team problem players (like Ty Morris) and worked successfully with them. Sometimes a change of scenery is exactly what a player needs to step it up and reach his potential.

[bandwagonboy]

The style of game Jones plays, if he had played on Red Deer this season surrounded by rookies, he would be about -60. We missed Zetariuk way more than we did Jones. Bottom line is, you don't change your entire philosophy and team's tactics to accomidate one player. All these players had ample time to adjust to the team's philosophy and tactics and chose not to. This is when it is time to remove the players from the team, and swap them for players that will (or may) be more willing to follow the coaches game plan. Sutter's absense from the team may or may not have had an impact on their performance last year, but obviously Brent felt this way since he declined a 3rd trip to the World Junior Tournament, citing this as the reason.

I would say that you can find some sort of middle ground and work with those kids rather than trade them. That's something that Sutter is capable of but failed to do especially in the Jones' case. If you measure the success or failure of a trade by what sort of impact they have on their new team, what they achieve there and what the team does then Moose Jaw was the clear winner. As the song says you've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em. Nobody is going to get it right all the time. Jones proved himself to be a legitiment force in this league, all systems and players surrounding him aside.

As for Sutter's absense being responsible for them not making the playoffs, well I think it's a very strong possiblity. They missed the playoffs by a mear 4 points. Two more wins and they are tied for the last playoff spot. Red Deer was in a massive slide while Sutter was gone. How many games did they win in december? 2? I would have to say that the chances of Red Deer picking up two more wins during december were he around is more than plausable. He's certainly good for a win or two here and there, he's one of the best coaches in the world at any level.

I'm not being overly critical of Sutter. I think he's probably the best coach in the CHL. I just think he made a few bad moves last season. I personally think that he's probably scratching his head and wondering what he could have done differently as well. I can't see how he would be happy about missing the playoffs and being well below .500.

[SectionNDeserter]

I would say that you can find some sort of middle ground and work with those kids rather than trade them. That's something that Sutter is capable of but failed to do especially in the Jones' case.That is the problem, there was absolutely no middle ground to work with. Jones is uncomfortable crossing his own blueline to go back into his own zone, and heaven forbid should he ever go behind his own net! The biggest problem Sutter had with this, was that Jones was actually very defensively responsible in his rookie year. His success in MJ last season had a lot to do with the fact that his linemates were a goal or two shy each of 50 goals, they could have dropped the backup goalie in between those guys, and he probably would have come up with 50-60 points. It isn't a mistake that he finished 20-30 points behind his linemates.

If you measure the success or failure of a trade by what sort of impact they have on their new team, what they achieve there and what the team does then Moose Jaw was the clear winner.Not too sure they were the clear winner, we got Rome who was much better in the last half of that season (and really helped in the last half of last season), and they got an improved Jones for the next full season. They obviously felt some guilt for getting an extra half a year out of the deal, so they gave us a starting goalie and a top 2 defenseman in exchange for an often-injured defenseman and a 4th-string goalie this season.

As for Sutter's absense being responsible for them not making the playoffs, well I think it's a very strong possiblity. They missed the playoffs by a mear 4 points. Two more wins and they are tied for the last playoff spot. Red Deer was in a massive slide while Sutter was gone. How many games did they win in december? 2? I would have to say that the chances of Red Deer picking up two more wins during december were he around is more than plausable. He's certainly good for a win or two here and there, he's one of the best coaches in the world at any level.Not really an accurate account of the Rebel's season, they had a terrible start, and I thought they played pretty good for Gaume in Sutter's absence. They lost almost every game by a 4-3 score or 5-4 score. They didn't really put together any wins until Sutter made the trade with Moose Jaw late in the season to take the heat off his shellshocked rookie goaltender that had assumed the starting position halfway through the season.

I'm not being overly critical of Sutter. I think he's probably the best coach in the CHL. I just think he made a few bad moves last season. I personally think that he's probably scratching his head and wondering what he could have done differently as well. I can't see how he would be happy about missing the playoffs and being well below .500.He made a few good trades, I had hoped he could have picked up a good defenseman more like Henry earlier in the season (instead of Chapman). This season, they seem to have a lot more depth on the blueline, which I am sure is no accident.

[skinnyhead]

I would not agree with that 100 percent. Jones, Wick, Rome. With those three guys playing to the full potential last year's rebels are easily a playoff team. It seems to me that Sutter has been trading his problems, not fixing them. Those three are players with legitiment talent.


From what I have heard from most reliable sources is the when Mr. Sutter was away at the WJC Jones skipped cerfew and wouldn't apoligize to Sutter's assistants for skipping it and sutter proply traded him away.
As for Rome he was posion in the dressing room as i heard when he played there and was shipped away. I believe Mr. Sutter had pretty good reasons for getting rid of them

[SectionNDeserter]

From what I have heard from most reliable sources is the when Mr. Sutter was away at the WJC Jones skipped cerfew and wouldn't apoligize to Sutter's assistants for skipping it and sutter proply traded him away.Sutter was with the team when he was traded(I remember him reaming Jones out on the bench a few times in the games leading up to him being traded), so I don't think it occured during the WJC. If this was in fact why he was traded, then skipping curfew right after going about -15 in 5 games was probably not one of his better ideas.

As for Rome he was posion in the dressing room as i heard when he played there and was shipped away. I believe Mr. Sutter had pretty good reasons for getting rid of themSounds about right, because he sure didn't look bad on the ice. I was actually a bit surprised when he got traded.

[Tinner]

there is at least 1 more poison still left in the room.....and I doubt he'll be traded. (traded once already)