After eight games, Giants leading in PIMs

[Jimmy]

http://whl.ca/stats/statdisplay.php?type=standings&id=0&leagueId=1

:frog:

For the first couple games, it seemed like they were playing fairly disciplined hockey, but that seems to have fallen apart in the last few. It is tough to rag on them about penalties when they have yet to lose and have been rocking the short-handed goals recently but what can they do?

The refs have been calling a bunch but they are pretty even about it, and since the numbers are so imbalanced in Vancouver it seems like it isn't as far-reaching a penalty increase as it seems to regular Giants fans.

[rinkrat]

They are actually evolving hockey into a different sport by calling all of these penalties.The objective,obviously is to artificially increase goal scoring,but they are losing the traditional 5 on 5 hockey in favour of odd man advantages the whole game.
This does not help the Giants,who thrive on rolling four lines.
Thanks,Gary :spineyes:

[Swando]

I have not even investigated this BUT the Giants have played a few more games that other teams AND I think that there must have been quite a few minutes in penalties in PG at the final face off where everyone squared off. I may be wrong but the opposition usually gets more penalties as the Giants are a skating team.. Just my thot without researching

[Jimmy]

I had to listen to the game tonight because of work and I swear I am going to lose it if i hear the phrase "roll[ing] with four lines" again

Bill and Joey have used that one up for the season.

[Jimmy]

I have not even investigated this BUT the Giants have played a few more games that other teams AND I think that there must have been quite a few minutes in penalties in PG at the final face off where everyone squared off. I may be wrong but the opposition usually gets more penalties as the Giants are a skating team.. Just my thot without researching

I have been halfassed in watching the penalty stats, but I am pretty sure they were top 1/2 before that game.

[Swando]

I had to listen to the game tonight because of work and I swear I am going to lose it if i hear the phrase "roll[ing] with four lines" again

Bill and Joey have used that one up for the season.


You have to remember that the Giants were in 1st place last year when Kraus went down with a fractured jaw. Missing Brule they adapted a 4 line approach and it worked to perfection. Brule arrived at a miraculous time and we all know the rest....................so in saying this I love to here the rolling 4 lines by Joey and Bill UNFORTUNATELY we seldom can (cover my head) roll 4 lines lol

[Kassian]

Keep in mind the Giants are near the top of the league in fighting majors as well. So that's a huge chunk of the penalty minutes right there.

[dondo]

this stat actually cracks me up -- i suppose we are being a bit undisciplined at times, but as kassian said a lot of those are fighting majors and we've had a few misconducts as well --- and probably loads of misconducts in PG on Friday

look at it this way Jimmy if we get mid-way through the season and we are still racking up the PIMs like that, then we could reassess, but if the PIMs are coming out of honest hard-nosed play then frankly i have no problem with them

its when they are lazy hooking and holding and dangerous knees, sticks and elbows then some adjustments need to be made, but fighting? more power to them :D .

[Swando]

this stat actually cracks me up -- i suppose we are being a bit undisciplined at times, but as kassian said a lot of those are fighting majors and we've had a few misconducts as well --- and probably loads of misconducts in PG on Friday

look at it this way Jimmy if we get mid-way through the season and we are still racking up the PIMs like that, then we could reassess, but if the PIMs are coming out of honest hard-nosed play then frankly i have no problem with them

its when they are lazy hooking and holding and dangerous knees, sticks and elbows then some adjustments need to be made, but fighting? more power to them :D .


Today is Sunday so I say AMEN

[GF71]

I'm thinking they will greatly add to thier penalty totals tomorrow in the wack. Especially if Flatters gets in the game. He got Chewed by Hay for his lack of discipline against Speedy Creek, so he might get parked.

[Swando]

I'm thinking they will greatly add to thier penalty totals tomorrow in the wack. Especially if Flatters gets in the game. He got Chewed by Hay for his lack of discipline against Speedy Creek, so he might get parked.
Sorry but why will this add to the totals if Flatters got chewed.. I'd think he would be more disciplined and then others might take less penalties as a result of the Chewing out..lol

[GF71]

Well... Flatters has a rivalry with bunghole or whatever his name is from the Wack, going back to the pre season. That coupled with his undisciplined play equals more penalty minutes. The two teams already have a dislike for each other. This is of course, if he gets to play. I think he will be parked personally.

[Swando]

Bunghole lol.. I now have a new name to yell when he's in my bad books. lol Thanks 71 Bunghole lol

[Knuckles Muldoon]

I'm thinking they will greatly add to thier penalty totals tomorrow in the wack. Especially if Flatters gets in the game. He got Chewed by Hay for his lack of discipline against Speedy Creek, so he might get parked.
Flatters is becoming a problem. Makes me think that Bonner/Hay may have to think real hard about keeping Scharffie over Lamb. Scharffie does his job and doesn't take penalties. I'm not sure Flatters can be trusted to do the same over the long haul.

[Kassian]

I don't have a problem with what Flatters did last night. Most of the time a double minor isn't called for either penalty, IMO. It's just because of Savage and his anal ways. If Flatters isn't playing physical he isn't effective.

[Knuckles Muldoon]

I don't have a problem with what Flatters did last night. Most of the time a double minor isn't called for either penalty, IMO. It's just because of Savage and his anal ways. If Flatters isn't playing physical he isn't effective.
But he overcommits in the defensive zone and then has to scramble to get back into position. That's when he starts reaching out and hooking and holding guys.

[Kassian]

But he overcommits in the defensive zone and then has to scramble to get back into position. That's when he starts reaching out and hooking and holding guys.

At times but he's definitely improved since last season. Either way you expect that from a 6th 7th defenseman especially if he's mainly a stay at home physical type.

[bANAna]

I'm a psychology student and I stumbled across this during my studies and I thought it was kind of interesting, especially considering the Giants' PIM's and the addition of their new 3rd jersey.

This was a study done by Frank and Gilovich in 1988. They studied the perception of teams who had black jerseys (50% or more black) and also looked at teams' penalties. They looked at teams in the NFL and NHL. They found that teams that wore black had more penalties and were preceived negatively. In the NHL, teams that had not worn black but switched over had an immediate increase in penalties. I'm not sure if this is because refs may hold a bias and/or players may play more agressively when wearing black.

I even did some number crunching. The giants averaged 35 minutes in penalties for their first two home games and in their last four homes games which they wore their snazzy 3rd's they averaged 49 minutes in penalties per game...a subtle increase. I would crunch more numbers especially teams that don't have black jerseys but frankly, I should be studying. This is purely procrastination :p. Keep in mind I'm not saying their PIM is a result of the new jerseys, because there are many other factors that haven't been accounted for, I just thought this was an interesting study and somewhat relevant to this thread.

[Bran]

I'm a psychology student and I stumbled across this during my studies and I thought it was kind of interesting, especially considering the Giants' PIM's and the addition of their new 3rd jersey.

This was a study done by Frank and Gilovich in 1988. They studied the perception of teams who had black jerseys (50% or more black) and also looked at teams' penalties. They looked at teams in the NFL and NHL. They found that teams that wore black had more penalties and were preceived negatively. In the NHL, teams that had not worn black but switched over had an immediate increase in penalties. I'm not sure if this is because refs may hold a bias and/or players may play more agressively when wearing black.

I even did some number crunching. The giants averaged 35 minutes in penalties for their first two home games and in their last four homes games which they wore their snazzy 3rd's they averaged 49 minutes in penalties per game...a subtle increase. I would crunch more numbers especially teams that don't have black jerseys but frankly, I should be studying. This is purely procrastination :p. Keep in mind I'm not saying their PIM is a result of the new jerseys, because there are many other factors that haven't been accounted for, I just thought this was an interesting study and somewhat relevant to this thread.
I vaguely remember talking about that study in one of my Psych classes last year, and discussing the possibilities of why that happens...I don't remember much else, I DO miss that class though. We also talked a bit about superstitions an Anthropology class I took, we read a story about how baseball players and this one particular tribe (I forget who they were!) are very similar. Dustin Slade is probably one of THE most superstitious hockey players I've seen (even if he says it isn't true! one need only watch him for 5 minutes to figure that one out...and I've never met a goalie who wasn't at least a little superstitious). I'd always just thought superstitions were silly, but breaking those certain habits can actually cause a person to have an off game. There are all sorts of psychological reasons for it. If things aren't in order, you lose concentration, or are concentrating on the wrong things. It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy, I suppose. This stuff absolutley blows my mind. I've probably bored you all to death, but I find it fascinating! Especially when you put it into the context of hockey, it makes it that much more interesting. (Helped me get awesome grades in those classes, too!!)

[Swando]

We should change to pink just for the Memorial Cup LOL!! As far a Flatters is concerned here is my theory. If you were to have a "top line" player sitting I think that you'd have desention and moping. John was not asked to attend the Flyers camp this year so I think he knows he has a lot of work to do. I believe Flatters accepts his role and he also is "Not Liked to play AGAINST". Opposition know when he is out there cause he'll give you that extra shot.. John can also play forward if injuries become an important issue like they did last year. With Scharrfy gone Flatters will assume that duel roll if necesary..

[bANAna]

I find it all fascinating too. I just wish my school offered something like sport psych, maybe when I transfer to university. And it'd be really amusing to see the Giants in pink jerseys, they'd look like those baby pink Giants hats where the logo's silver...haha :spineyes: Brule might have been up for it. Didn't he dye a strip of his hair hot pink last season during the playoffs?

I feel like I should comment on Flatters..so I'm going to say that he hasn't impressed me but he hasn't disappointed me either. He's been pretty consistent I think, hasn't made too many mistakes. He just goes out there roughs it up and gets the opposition players riled up.

[TheBrass]

With regards to Flatters, I am going to have to paraphrase here:

He may be a goon, but he's OUR goon.

I personally think he's a great kid who plays with a whole lot of heart and has a whole lot of personality.