Policemen??????

[Scout]

With the new rules is there still room on a team for hard nosed policeman to protect the more skill players. It appears most teams are still carrying one or two but there are less of them every year.

Scout

[Tinner]

its tough because teams can't play all the skill guys now. The refs and new rules dictate that 1 team will always have a pp and the other will be shorthanded for 75% of the game. That said, teams can't take stupid or bad penalties as much because the lines never get to play as a 3 man line. At least they don't need the less skilled heavyweight, they need the more skilled lightweight.

[Flathead]

A policeman in these days, can't be a full on goon, he has to be able to play hockey as well and contribute with more than just his fists.

[Scout]

They say most fans want fighting out of the game. But i have a question here. If most fans want fighting out of the game, why is it when the score is 7-3 which 3 minutes left the rink is still full? Are the fans just wanting their moneys worth or are they expecting a great come back? I have seen this in so many rinks and when there is a great fight or a brawl thats when the crowd is loudest.
So if this is what most fans want why call every little tap and hit. Personally i love a good rockem sockem fight not this piroette hockey. Sure the games are ending faster and we get home earlier but who says the fans want less for their money? I'm questioning the leagues logic here and want other posters opinions on this league decision. I hate everytime there is a hard hit there is a penalty called. Am i the only one who is sick of all the whistles?
Yah its only my opinion and you can butcher me if you wish but i don't believe them when they say fans want the game to end earlier and also want fighting out of the game.

Scout

[Sput]

This isn't just a WHL doing, but a result of what the NHL has done. They (read Bettman) have taken the hitting, grinding and heart out of the game. What was, and in my mind still is, a clean hard bodycheck is now called for charging, boarding or some other BS call the ref can make up. I want to watch two willing combatants toss em' at center ice, and try to swing their team's momentum. The entire system of hockey is slowly being turned from a heart and soul, hard work and gut it out game into a no contact scrimmiage. I see more contact lately in my son's Atoms games than I do in NHL or WHL anymore.

The best way I've heard it put by a broadcaster was, where did Gary Bettman come from? The NBA, where he managed to take most of the roughness out of the game. All Bettman is doing now is turning hockey into NBA on ice. Next thing we'll see is hoops to shoot the puck through, and no goalies so that the finesse guys can showcase their so called talent.

[Five Hole]

I agree. For the most part, the games don't seem to have much intensity. While there are some good hits still, they're very few and far between. Guys are trying so hard not to put their team in a penalty situation that they seem to pretty much tiptoe around out there.
Fights have almost become extinct too. There really isn'y any need for a policeman anymore. There'll always be room for those that are willing to go when needed, but nobody's going to keep a roster spot open if the guy can't do much else.
I think it's good that it's not like Flin Flon in the late 60's and New West in the mid-70's where a lot of teams basically hated going in there because of the total goon shows that would erupt. And, it's also good that a dman can't crosscheck a forward repeatedly in front of the net anymore.
But, this is the highest level of junior hockey there is and it just seems way too tame.
Maybe there's a happy medium somewhere, we'll have to wait and see, I guess!

[neutral]

I hate everytime there is a hard hit there is a penalty called.
Scout

So far this season I've been reasonably pleased with the calls on big hits in the 7 or 8 games I've been to. For the most part if the hit sends a player in to the boards face first or awkwardly, it has been called. But the open ice hits seems to be allowed. Once the players and refs figure out how to get rid of obstruction and allow a little more body contact, the game will improve.

What I don't like is the current trend toward immediate retaliation for big hits. It seems like every time there is a good clean solid hit in open ice, either the player who was hit or a player from their team feels an immediate retaliation or fight is necessary. Some players can take the hit and move on, but others can't. Note, I said clean hits. Not hits to the head, high elbows, and sticks.

[Flathead]

[QUOTE=neutral] For the most part if the hit sends a player in to the boards face first or awkwardly, it has been called. [QUOTE]
I can see going face forwards into the boards being a penalty, would most likely be a hit from behind. But you can throw a clean hit and send a guy into the boards awkwardly, it's not a penalty if a guy doesn't know how to take a hit or gets caught with his head down. I've seen to many clean hits get called this year, especially if the recipient hits the ice.

[Kassian]

They say most fans want fighting out of the game.

Who (or whom) says that? I'd like to know because they couldn't be further from the truth.

[dondo]

exactly -- whoever they are know nothing about the game-- (probably Bettman and his cronies), as the crowd goes wild when there's a fight, there's more energy in a crowd post fight than post goal -- in my observation.

Also if the powers that be would smarten up and take back that idiotic instigator penalty, there would be a lot less injuries to skill players.

Now that they've (supposedly) eliminated the clutching and grabbing its time for the protector to come back out and protect those skill players who now have room to move from the cheap shots which come in the form of poor players taking liberties.

[neutral]

[QUOTE=neutral] For the most part if the hit sends a player in to the boards face first or awkwardly, it has been called. [QUOTE]
I can see going face forwards into the boards being a penalty, would most likely be a hit from behind. But you can throw a clean hit and send a guy into the boards awkwardly, it's not a penalty if a guy doesn't know how to take a hit or gets caught with his head down. I've seen to many clean hits get called this year, especially if the recipient hits the ice.

Poor choice of words on my part. I really meant to say if someone takes advantage of an opposition player who is in a vulnerable (awkward) position. These are typically boarding or charging situations.

[dondo]

the other concern I have with that though is that the players know they "can't" get hit when they put their back to the play or turn to face the boards as a hit is coming (stupid I know) - - back in the hey days of hockey when players didn't wear helmets, etc -- they wouldn't be caught dead in that position.

In other words the additional penalties for this thing is a lot of what has caused the escalation of the problem, as players will deliberately put themselves into vulnerable positions to either a) draw a penalty, or b) protect themselves from getting hit.

Frankly if there was some sort of unsportsmanlike able to be called for players deliberately turning their back on the play we wouldn't get so many in vulnerable positions.. but I know that's actually unrealistic, but so is calling majors for every hit that has a player in a possibly vulnerable position and not taking into account how they got there.

[old_time_hockey]

You know what I think this all boils back down to?

The instigator rule. Once players knew that they wouldn't have to pay the piper for stupid and cheap hits on players, people would take advantage and start dishing out high and late hits in the corners and along the boards. So I think players decided that if they turned their back, they wouldn't get hit, and if they did, put their team on the PP. Which to me is stupid. Is being (or the potential to be) paralized or have major neck injury worth it.

I may be wrong on this but I just noticed that when the instigator rule came out it wasn't long after that you saw more and more players turn their back when they knew a hit was coming.

To answer the original question...Yes, there is still room for them. But they have to be able to take a regular shift. But I think more so "team toughness" is becoming more important. Doesn't matter who you are, grinder, fighter or skill player you stick up for your teammates.

[Scout]

That was what Mr. Bettman has said. We want to see the stars show what they can do and fans feel the games are to long. He also says most fans hate fighting and want it eliminated.

Scout

[Five Hole]

Sometimes the 'policeman' ends up on the wrong end of the deal. Did you happen to see this one between two former WHL'ers - Fedoruk going after Boogaard.
It's pretty rare to see a guy get hurt in a fight, but it does happen. Ouch! Of course, not everyone packs a punch like that!
BTW, this generated about 160 posts another board, a lot of them about whether fighting should be eliminated.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRsFz3LlOw

[Kassian]

That was what Mr. Bettman has said. We want to see the stars show what they can do and fans feel the games are to long. He also says most fans hate fighting and want it eliminated.

Scout

Well Bettman is full of you know what...

The guy doesn't know a damn thing about hockey. And obviously his numbers are a little off. Most polls say roughly 90% of all fans wanting fighting to stay in the game. No big surprise either. A lot of times fighting gets a louder reception from the fans than goals do.

The only way you can fully eliminate fighting is if you abolish all physical contact. And well if that happens there goes the sport....

[SectionNDeserter]

Did you happen to see this one between two former WHL'ers - Fedoruk going after Boogaard.Yeah, saw that one too.... When they blew the whistle on that play, is when Fedoruk should have just said "I'm sorry Mr. Boogaard, I thought you were someone else!".

[Flathead]

through 166 games there have been 18 more fights than last year in the NHL. But still down 100 fights from the 03-04 season.

[bandwagonboy]

Firstly hockey fans love to see a good scrap. There is no way that people want to see fighting eliminated.

But I do think that the era of the dedicated goon will soon be over. I know he is easily the least popular player in the league right now but I think rather than a goon most teams will carry a player like Derek Dorsett on their roster. A guy who can play, stir the pot, stand up for a team mate, and start something to spark the team with a fight when needed. The days of teams carrying a guy like Brandon Tidball who would only see about 2 minutes of ice time and still rack up 15 minutes of penalty time a game are over.

[dondo]

You know what I think this all boils back down to?

The instigator rule. Once players knew that they wouldn't have to pay the piper for stupid and cheap hits on players, people would take advantage and start dishing out high and late hits in the corners and along the boards. So I think players decided that if they turned their back, they wouldn't get hit, and if they did, put their team on the PP. Which to me is stupid. Is being (or the potential to be) paralyzed or have major neck injury worth it.

I may be wrong on this but I just noticed that when the instigator rule came out it wasn't long after that you saw more and more players turn their back when they knew a hit was coming.

To answer the original question...Yes, there is still room for them. But they have to be able to take a regular shift. But I think more so "team toughness" is becoming more important. Doesn't matter who you are, grinder, fighter or skill player you stick up for your teammates.

completely agree the instigator penalty made a perfect breeding ground for cheap shot artists and pests. Do you think Tkachuk would be cross-checking players to the throat (twice) if there was still the threat of him being pummeled into the ice? Bettman's full of crap he's from basketball and after all these years he still does not know why hockey is so loved. He has no clue what makes good hockey and what makes bad hockey -- if I want to watch 82 x 30 all-star games every night then I'll turn to watch swedish elite league hockey, no checking whatsoever and so boring. Gimme some guts and heart any night.