whl expansion

[bobg1]

I hear a rumor of possible expansion to Vancouver Island in Victoria and Nanaimo. Is there any truth to these rumors?

[Hunt24]

Nanaimo is a hot bed for sure, a very good hockeytown similar to Chilliwack. The only problem is that the owners of the Nanaimo Clippers are very committed to the community and currently have a proposal put forward to city council to help finance a new multiplex arena.

If you want to play conspiracy theorist, you could argue that the multiplex would be Gallagher and Wagner's (the owners) first steps towards acquiring a WHL team. They have spent a lot of money, both on the table and off, towards making the Clippers as succesful as they are. They would probably look to find an alternative home for the Clippers.

As for Victoria, it's always on the WHL radar. They have a new arena in place, but there is pro hockey (ECHL's Salmon Kings) and a newly named BCHL team (the Grizzlies). Currently the Grizzlies play in the renovated Bear Mountain Arena while the Salmon Kings play out of the much nicer, much newer Memorial Centre, which is owned by RG Properties - the same group that owns the Kings. There's no way they'd let a WHL team play in that arena. They did try to secure a WHL franchise a few years ago and were rebuffed, that's why they got the ECHL team.

I'd say it's a possibility, but there are US markets that could support a team and are within the WHL area. Eugene Oregon comes to mind, and Helena Montana could support a team.

[Bran]

I think there's almost always going to be a market, pretty much anywhere you look in BC. But the division is going to get a little crowded if they keep adding teams. If they're looking to expand (maybe even things out again! I thought they were going to stall at 20 teams for awhile??) why not look further east? With a team in Edmonton, maybe Fort McMurray would be a viable option? Lloydminster might be an alright market, or possibly Winnipeg? Those are all pretty iffy though. Why not put a team in Montana or North Dakota?

[Hunt24]

Prince George is struggling at the gate right now. They have shown that they'll come out if the team is a good one (not great, just good enough to compete every night) but there is a level of dislike between PG fans and the current ownership. That could be a team on the move and in all likelihood it would stay in BC.

As for those other markets you mentioned, Fort Mac could be an interesting choice. It has roughly the same population as Chilliwack, but is geographically "out of the way" for most extended road trips. Winnipeg could be a market, but there's an AHL team there that has first rights on the new building. They'd most likely do their best to block such a move. Lloydminster....well, with a population of only 23,000, I'd say they're a real long shot to land a team - especially as the WHL seems to be looking to capture the largest markets possible.

[HAF]

I agree with Bran to an extent and even Hunt 24. With Edmonton coming to the Central and Chilliwack now in the BC I cant help but think that any expansion considerations will revolve around keeping the divisions equal at 6. Winnipeg I think would be a dead ringer for a team in the east. As for expansion in the US division there are plenty of big markets left but it will all come down to where they can get a rink built. Eugene would be tough with the Oregon Ducks athletics right there as well as OSU just a few miles north in Corvallis. Salem Oregon could also be an option as well as Bend, Wenatchee, Yakima and Helena. I really dont see expansion in North Dakota because the Fighting Soux pretty much have a monopoly on the hockey market there. Also, you would have a US team playing the majority of their games in the east division.

[N.W. Bruin]

As Kootenay even though based located in B.C. is in the Central division. Both the Central and East division will have six clubs in both next season when Edmonton comes aboard. That assumes no relocation. And Prince Albert because of recent renovations to the rink isn't likely moving because it is community based same as Swift Current. Moose Jaw needs a new rink but likely will get it.

The Victoria Salmon Kings may not last and that is a market the league would like to have. Be it the Cougars moving back if attendance doesn't improve or a expansion team. Nanaimo very likely will get a team if the Cougars move to Victoria.

That leaves the US division whether the club is based in the States or British Columbia is another matter. I don't know if Eugene has a rink. It might come down to eight teams in B.C. with Kootenay based in the Central and maybe Chilliwack based in the US division but having a BC heavy schedule of games like Kootenay had for years in regards to a Central heavy schedule.

[Hunt24]

I think Montana might be as far east as the WHL would be willing to expand. Otherwise they would be looking at one team in the US that is not in the US division.

Complete realignment may not be out of the question, but they can't ignore the Island for too much longer. The real wild card is the Salmon Kings. They're getting between 3800 and 4800 fans per game. Not bad considering that the owners have the stadium and the team, thus getting all of the concession and parking on top of the ticket and merchandise sales. For that city to get a team the Kings have to leave, which is hard to imagine given the ownership situation. There's no way a team could play in Bear Mountain Arena given its 2300 seating capacity.

[Highlander_Yank]

I'd say it's a possibility, but there are US markets that could support a team and are within the WHL area. Eugene Oregon comes to mind, and Helena Montana could support a team.

I nominate my old hometown of Great Falls. There was a WHL team there a long time ago (albeit for not even a full season). More recently, GF has had an AWHL team, if I remember the league name correctly.

Advantages over Helena: Larger population in GF. Also GF is 90 miles (by road) and one mountain range closer to the border. From GF north is pretty much all open prairie, but there's an arm of the Rockies between Great Falls and Helena.

As far as placement within the WHL line-up, geographically Great Falls would be a good fit for the Eastern Conference, Central Division.

My $.02 worth ...

[smileyjones]

Being a PG fan, maybe I'm looking at things thru Rose colored glasses but I can't see this team moving. I'm not sure whether our owner knows it or not, but with a decent team and some commitment to the fans and community the team will be well supported. I'm pretty sure that there are a great number of members of the BOG that know this. Plus, the city is growing and that is expected to continue for a number of years. Moving because of today's attendance numbers would be an example of short term thinking.

There are some other teams that may be in more trouble than PG at present. PA is going to have some attendance problems with the mill shutting down,and it's a small market to boot. But it's community owned so it would have to be bleeding a lot of red ink to move. I believe Moose Jaw is getting a new rink, which they need to keep the league happy. If this drags out too long it could be a problem for the Warriors. You've got to wonder how long the Thunderbirds can stay put in Seattle. There lease is apparently very bad, and they want to move out to Kent or one of the other suburbs, but an arean needs to be built first. With an expensive lease and marginal attendance how long can they wait? Kootenay is struggling at the gate as PG is but with a very succesful team, in a market that isn't that big.

Keep in mind I don't wish anybody's team to move, these are just some observations. Personally, I think it becomes very difficult from a PR standpoint for the league to move a team. Especially if there is a large enough market and a suitable arena (PG and Cranbrook come to mind).

I say that the league will be in it's current state for a while yet.

One question for you fans in Vancouver. What happens after this year? You've had the world juniors, the memorial cup and a couple of great teams to keep the attendance up. But once all of the special events are over, and the teams hits a rebuilding phase, are there enough die hard fans to really keep the attendance numbers up??

[HAF]

Being a PG fan, maybe I'm looking at things thru Rose colored glasses but I can't see this team moving. I'm not sure whether our owner knows it or not, but with a decent team and some commitment to the fans and community the team will be well supported. I'm pretty sure that there are a great number of members of the BOG that know this. Plus, the city is growing and that is expected to continue for a number of years. Moving because of today's attendance numbers would be an example of short term thinking.

There are some other teams that may be in more trouble than PG at present. PA is going to have some attendance problems with the mill shutting down,and it's a small market to boot. But it's community owned so it would have to be bleeding a lot of red ink to move. I believe Moose Jaw is getting a new rink, which they need to keep the league happy. If this drags out too long it could be a problem for the Warriors. You've got to wonder how long the Thunderbirds can stay put in Seattle. There lease is apparently very bad, and they want to move out to Kent or one of the other suburbs, but an arean needs to be built first. With an expensive lease and marginal attendance how long can they wait? Kootenay is struggling at the gate as PG is but with a very succesful team, in a market that isn't that big.

Keep in mind I don't wish anybody's team to move, these are just some observations. Personally, I think it becomes very difficult from a PR standpoint for the league to move a team. Especially if there is a large enough market and a suitable arena (PG and Cranbrook come to mind).

I say that the league will be in it's current state for a while yet.

One question for you fans in Vancouver. What happens after this year? You've had the world juniors, the memorial cup and a couple of great teams to keep the attendance up. But once all of the special events are over, and the teams hits a rebuilding phase, are there enough die hard fans to really keep the attendance numbers up??

Just out of curiosity what are the populations in PG and PA?

[Tipped Off]

Pg: 72,406
Pa: 34,291

[RunTheGoalie]

Victoria is out so long as the Salmon Kings are around, which should be a while given current attendance.

I could see Nanaimo though.

Winnipeg would be nice if it were decided that the AHL and WHL could coexist. Would give Brandon a good, natural rival.

Ideally then, Nanaimo goes to the US division, Cranbrook back to the BC, Swift back to the Central and 6 teams in each division.

Grande Prarie is also a plausable location now that Edmonton is in, but the 43 is a mess in winter at the best of times.

[LifelongChiefsFan]

It will be interesting to see if they fill the US division with a 6th American team or one from BC instead. I know at some point last year I read an article about WHL expansion and one of the cities they mentioned was Boise. I really don't know how well that would work out since Boise is a good ways away from even Spokane and Tri-City and I don't know the validity of their sources, but it was still something to think about.

[BruinsHockey]

Boise, Billings, Yakima are all good choices. I would love to see a WHL team in Nanaimo or Victoria though.

I already think the WHL has expanded way too much already, if they can maybe move some teams it would be much better than expanding.

How would Nanaimo go to the US division? Crossing the border for every game. I could only see nanaimo if they were in the BC division. Hour and a half from Vancouver, 2 and a half from Chilliwack. (due to ferry of course)

[Blades 4 Life!]

I think there is already enough team in the B.C division. I think Winnipeg would be a good choice. They already have a good hockey rink there, Brandon plays there sometimes but i think Winnipeg needs a team before any B.C team!

[wango tango]

don't think we'll see expansion in the near future, a shuffling around of franchises potentially, but not expansion.

in order to rebalance the conferences and divisions expansion would have to come out west in b.c. and u.s.

problem is any potential sites like winnipeg or victoria have 'issues' to deal with. most notably with what is already there.

[HAF]

It will be interesting to see if they fill the US division with a 6th American team or one from BC instead. I know at some point last year I read an article about WHL expansion and one of the cities they mentioned was Boise. I really don't know how well that would work out since Boise is a good ways away from even Spokane and Tri-City and I don't know the validity of their sources, but it was still something to think about.

I dont think Boise is a big enough market to support 2 teams. They already have an ECHL team, The Idaho Steelheads.

[ihlemic10]

Next US team, Pt Roberts...! In reality people have thrown out Wenatchee as an option...don't know how much truth is there.

[rinkrat]

Next US team, Pt Roberts...! .

We'll be reclaiming Pt Roberts soon! :D

Seriously,how about expanding to Northern California? There is a big pool of talent there,that the dub is starting to tap into.Perhaps a team there would expose even more kids to the league??

[Jimmypop316]

What about Eugene?

[ihlemic10]

We'll be reclaiming Pt Roberts soon! :D

Seriously,how about expanding to Northern California? There is a big pool of talent there,that the dub is starting to tap into.Perhaps a team there would expose even more kids to the league??

Becuase the travel would suck. Way too much distance for the teams in the own division, much less the East Divison...

[Carebear]

So the rumours have already begun to fly.

Langley is getting a new arena (built by the same people who did Prospera), and I've already seen/heard people saying they feel this is a step into getting another Dub team.

Personally, I dont think it'll happen. I don't think there's enough fan support in Langley, and I think it's too close to Van and Chwk.

But what do you guys think?

[dondo]

if they were gunning to go up a level CB they wouldn't be building only a 3000 - 4000 seat arena.

I think the new Langley arena is intended to give the lower levels of hockey a new facility in which to play and enlarge the fan base for grass roots hockey.

[Carebear]

As I said Dondo, I personally don't think there'll be a WHL team heading there at all..but OTHER people seem to think so.

AND PS - You know its not much less seating than Prospera has.

[Coyote14]

Remember that Prospera Centre in Chilliwack started as a less than 4000 seat arena. Only once it had been confirmed that the Bruins would be coming was it expended to 5100.

I don't think Langley is even a remote possibility for WHL expansion though considering how close it is to both Vancouver and Chilliwack. Both teams are already drawing parts of their fan base from there.

Still, congrats to Langley for stepping it up at the minor hockey and lower tiered junior levels. Abbotsford has also agreed to build a large sports complex. I think in a few years, they may try to land an ECHL team. Hockey is doing very well in the lower mainland these days.

[dondo]

As I said Dondo, I personally don't think there'll be a WHL team heading there at all..but OTHER people seem to think so.

AND PS - You know its not much less seating than Prospera has.

hey CB I wasn't dissin' ya I was just answering your Q --
But what do you guys think?

tooouucchyyyy... :p dancing pi

and yes I knew that -- but the difference between 3000 and 5000 is a large one, in terms of percentage -- and coyote14 I did not know that Prospera started out as a 4000 seat arena. In my mind building a new facility with anything less than 5000 is shooting yourself in the foot from the get-go, but w/e.

[Carebear]

I'm moody.


And its gonna have about 4000, not 3000... :p

[BruinsHockey]

"Abbotsford has also agreed to build a large sports complex. I think in a few years, they may try to land an ECHL team. Hockey is doing very well in the lower mainland these days."

Actually Abbotsford is trying to land a WHL franchise *cough* bruins *cough*

[Coyote14]

Ugh I would hate to see that. I'm sure Abbotsford could drum up a lot of fan support... but they are just Chilliwack's Bruins now. I can't see us losing our team at all in the near future because we have excellent fans that keep coming even when the team is losing. The good news is that the quality will get better and the bandwagon fans will start showing up a bit more. Abbotsford has potential but Chilliwack has proven that it is a hockey town and that it is capable of supporting a WHL franchise.

[nelson951]

Seattle moving to Vernon.
Vernon Vipers to Nelson