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Thread: Start of the season

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    Agree to disagree then. Red Deer has the best goaltender in the Dub and a collection of talent just as good as their 4th place club from last year
    Well, I think they have more talent than last season, it is just young and inexperienced. They replaced Underwood and what he brought to the team with Dixon, Dumba's role with Gaudet, Elson's role with Johnson, Gaudet's role with Charif (but not till about 20 games in), and Ness, Hamilton and Johnson's role with assorted 16 and 17 year old rookies. With the exception of Charif assuming Gaudet's role, I honestly don't see anything (short-term at least) that is 'just as good' there. I think the one thing we can both agree on, is that we can agree to disagree.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    Well, I think they have more talent than last season, it is just young and inexperienced. They replaced Underwood and what he brought to the team with Dixon, Dumba's role with Gaudet, Elson's role with Johnson, Gaudet's role with Charif (but not till about 20 games in), and Ness, Hamilton and Johnson's role with assorted 16 and 17 year old rookies. With the exception of Charif assuming Gaudet's role, I honestly don't see anything (short-term at least) that is 'just as good' there. I think the one thing we can both agree on, is that we can agree to disagree.
    Let's hold on a second here. Fleury has filled Dumba's role, Charif Gaudet's, and Gaudet has moved into Underwood's second pairing role. The top 4 on paper is a solid group, and you would figure that plus Fafard + youngin logging 3rd pair minutes would be a solid, if unspectacular, group. The problem isn't that they're running out scrubs back there (except when they give Bear meaningful minutes), it's that a couple of guys back there need to play a lot better.

    And if we're being fair with the forward comparisons, I'm not sure why you wouldn't mention guys from last year's team that got a lot better and filled some of those holes without needing to acquire someone, such as a guy like Bleackley being able to step in and perform at that level on the top line. Wyatt Johnson/Adam Musil have had similar seasons to Ness and Hamilton this year. Bleacks' production on that line is going to exceed what Turner did last year, but...no mention of that. The top 6 lost only Elson, and Bleacks moved into it. So that leaves 5 other guys - Maxwell, Dieno, Volek, Bellerive, and Sutter - all but Bellerive have struggled for large chunks of games, or, in the case of Sutter and Maxwell, the entire year.

    Also, it's misleading to dismissively say Johnson and Bleackley's roles have been filled by "16-17 year old rookies" because those two guys were 16-17 year old rookies last year. That's exactly who should be filling their roles.

    Absolutely, you have a point about the youngsters. I'm just baffled as to why you seem to think the way most of the veterans on this team have struggled has had a negligible impact on their season so far and the reason they're in 9th place is solely because they're young and inexperienced.

    Anyway... onwards and upwards. Chance to climb up two points on Brandon. Last day off before I'm back on shift again so I might even "treat" myself to watching the game on WHL's horrific excuse for streaming television.
    Last edited by calcheyup; 01-07-2014 at 10:43 AM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    Let's hold on a second here. Fleury has filled Dumba's role, Charif Gaudet's, and Gaudet has moved into Underwood's second pairing role. The top 4 on paper is a solid group, and you would figure that plus Fafard + youngin logging 3rd pair minutes would be a solid, if unspectacular, group.
    I think you misunderstood the point I was trying to make. Fleury is filling Fleury's role, just like he did last season. He plays a solid two-way game. Gaudet played more minutes (at least in the first half), and a more 'high-risk' game than he did last season, trying to replace the offense from the point that was lost with Dumba. As you can see, and as I was alluding to, he failed miserably at it. He has looked a little better defensively since they have scaled back his minutes significantly, and his offense has all but vanished. They are trying to replace the ELEMENT that Underwood brought to the lineup with Dixon, not his position in the roster.

    So that leaves 5 other guys - Maxwell, Dieno, Volek, Bellerive, and Sutter - all but Bellerive have struggled for large chunks of games, or, in the case of Sutter and Maxwell, the entire year.
    Dieno is putting up a point a game, and that is what he is here for. Volek started out slow, but really came on in December. Maxwell is Maxwell, he is a strong defensive forward, but little more than that. Moving him back to the wing this season has really limited his effectiveness in that area, as Sutter is now responsible for most of the backchecking--which he only does when the mood strikes him.

    Also, it's misleading to dismissively say Johnson and Bleackley's roles have been filled by "16-17 year old rookies" because those two guys were 16-17 year old rookies last year. That's exactly who should be filling their roles.
    If you actually read it, I said Ness, Hamilton and Johnson. I made no mention of Bleackley anywhere. Johnson was a rookie last season, however, at no point was he on an all-rookie line, sometimes with a rookie or two (or Gaudet) on the blueline at the same time. (ie: he was actually eased into the lineup).

    I'm just baffled as to why you seem to think the way most of the veterans on this team have struggled has had a negligible impact on their season so far and the reason they're in 9th place is solely because they're young and inexperienced.
    While they have improved a great deal in this area as they have gained experience, the single biggest problem with the team this season has been puck possession. For a huge chunk of the first half of the season, the rookies have been getting trapped out there in their own zone under a heavy forecheck for 3-4 minutes at a time, often giving up a goal out of sheer exhaustion. With that many rookies on the team, it was nearly impossible to form checking lines that weren't entirely comprised of rookies. This is why they were grossly outshot in every game for most of the first half of the season, and have improved in that area as the season progressed. Gaudet's horrendous first half certainly hasn't helped, nor has the apathetic play of Sutter, but it is nowhere near the biggest issue with the team.

    Anyway... onwards and upwards. Chance to climb up two points on Brandon. Last day off before I'm back on shift again so I might even "treat" myself to watching the game on WHL's horrific excuse for streaming television.
    Me too, can't wait to see what this new kid brings to the team. Supposed to be a real energy guy.

  4. #14

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    This is going nowhere.

    Similar to the Rebels tonight in Brandon. God what a giveaway by Fleury, that was painful for watch. Luckily for us, that was one of the worst shootout attempts I've seen in awhile.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    God what a giveaway by Fleury, that was painful for watch.
    He has looked really tired in the second half of the last four or five games. Maybe time to make a deal for some help for him?

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    He has looked really tired in the second half of the last four or five games. Maybe time to make a deal for some help for him?
    I would love that, as long as certain youngins remain off-limits. Despite the fact that I still feel this club could be a middle-of-the-pack playoff team, they aren't beating the likes of Calgary/Swifty/Edmonton in the first round so I'm not in favor of giving up a king's ransom in young guys/picks to address that situation. Though, Sutter has a penchant for picking up quality players for dimes on the dollar.

    As I alluded to in the other thread, I seriously can't believe how much I miss Brandon Underwood. Nothing against him, but that's really...not good.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    they aren't beating the likes of Calgary/Swifty/Edmonton in the first round so I'm not in favor of giving up a king's ransom in young guys/picks to address that situation. Though, Sutter has a penchant for picking up quality players for dimes on the dollar.
    He is 2 for 2 this season. He got fleeced in the Sutter trade, and Dixon hasn't been a good pickup so far, but Polei for an older, troubled Millette and three months of Dumba for three high picks and Kopeck were good. The prospect cupboard appears to be full, and he has a pile of high draft picks to work with now. I would be shocked if he doesn't make a move or two to improve this team, even if it is for next season.

    As I alluded to in the other thread, I seriously can't believe how much I miss Brandon Underwood. Nothing against him, but that's really...not good.
    There was a lot to like. Wasn't the most skilled guy, but he played within his limitations, chewed up tons of minutes, and didn't take any crap from anyone.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    There was a lot to like. Wasn't the most skilled guy, but he played within his limitations, chewed up tons of minutes, and didn't take any crap from anyone.
    No, don't get me wrong, I was a big Underwood fan. But I'm aghast at how big of a hole his departure has left in the defense. This wasn't a 1st round NHL pick we lost, it was a decent, steady 2nd pairing Dub defenseman. The fact that this defensive corps is desperate for a guy like that indicates a pretty sorry state of affairs is all.

    And I agree with you, Sutter's got something in the mix. No moves before the deadline would indicate he's ready to concede the season. As for him, his latest moves haven't been fantastic, but just last year he picked up Underwood and Gaudet, guys who made a world of difference on that back end, and a pair of top-6 forwards in Volek and Bellerive. His track record is pretty darn good in the recent past. He also got some pretty decent picks (a 3rd rounder each) for Hamilton and Ness also - for those curious, those guys have combined for 33 points in 82 games this year.
    Last edited by calcheyup; 01-07-2014 at 10:05 PM.

  9. #19

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    Per the advocate today, Sutter is happy with the forward group, Bartosak is going nowhere, and a deal will only be made if it can help the defensive corps. Stockl has been reassigned to Junior A. Also sounds like Feser is with the team for the duration. With the exception of last night he's played pretty well, so good on him.

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