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Thread: Trade deadline talk

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    When it comes to the Pats over the past decades, if I had a buck for every time I've heard the word potential I'd be a bloody millionaire. That word makes me sick. I seen it over the late 80's, all of the 90, 2000's, 2010, onto where we are today. I seen numerous GM's and coaches use that word and it all adds up to a steamy pile of BS plain and simple! What it hasn't translated to is a conference or league championship, not even close. The thing about the word potential is potential to do "what?". There are some out there who are totally satisfied with this perpetual flirtation with .500. I am not one of those. I've supported them for decades waiting for them to return to excellence, but it gets harder every year.

    Right now we're a .500 team with a bunch of holes. We're not deep enough to win much. It's time fix the holes and assemble the kind and numbers of "talent" we're going to need to become championship calibre. That means sell and move on.
    Most of those holes are in the crease, if you ask me. A small improvement in net could benefit present and future.

    Im not expecting a memorial cup appearance or anything, and yeah this team isn't that special but I think its important to get some playoff experience. We have a lot of home games remaining in a weak conference, its still world juniors, and we are getting injured players back. Recent troubles notwithstanding, I think there is p*******(censored for your benefit) to climb a bit and maybe get a favorable matchup.

    I mean, how do we expect to achieve this culture of success if all we do is pull a prince George every deadline and mail it in? We have to try. Experience is just as important as stockpiling youth, and you cant have success without both.

    Although I think Lang is leaning towards moreso selling, an open mind at the deadline is all I ask. Let the offers and market help dictate what our next course of action shall be.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdude114 View Post
    Normally SAJ I agree with like 99% of your comments but have to disagree with the last comment. Yes the team may have potential but even getting a goalie wouldn't translate in even a 2nd place finish in our division we would still be a 7th or 8th place finish maybe & a big maybe a 6th place finish.

    We won't get Stephenson back next year as I'd say there is a 85% chance he goes to the AHL that isn't a good enough chance for us to keep him around for a chance at a stud of a 20yr old. So keep him for what a couple home playoff games & lose him to the pro's & get nothing for him to help us in the future. Like chopper I have seen this movie before infact I own a few copies of it & don't want anymore.

    We still maay make the playoffs even with a sell off & get the same amount of games in playoffs so where is the advantage here? I just don't see it & yes that is my opinion which I'm entilted too just like you are as well

    I have this feeling after tomorrow night when Klimchuk is expected back that things will go good & the fans will make an 180 degree turn on the direction we neeed to take but I'm not going to change my opinion.
    Here is quote from the Dec 27th LP by Chad Lang:

    I just think whether we move assets or acquire additional assets, the priority is still to make the playoffs. I think we can do a combination. We probably could move an asset and gain some compensation that helps us for us next year and still have the ability with this group to make the playoffs.

    PD114 this is pretty much what you have been saying and I agree with that take.

    We haven't been sellers for some time. The last valuable asset we moved was probably Harding. We typically buy when we should sell, and we all know what I'm talking about. Buying Marincin from PG was a waste of a 1st round pick. He wasn't special in the regular season and disappeared in the playoffs. No if anything we are too frequently buyers as opposed to sellers. We do not in any way resemble how PG operates. Maybe we should have.

    Occasional playoff rounds are vastly overrated. In 07-08 we made the playoffs but missed the next four years. How did that help our young players? We made one round in 11-12 for 5 games and what did that do for our young players? Missed the playoffs the following year. It's a myth is all. When you've finally gone deep into the playoffs and your organization is on the upswing players know what it takes and it becomes helpful.

    Can anyone tell me who we favourably match up against other than MJ or Saskatoon? Most of our points have come from teams below us in the first half. In the 2nd half we face tougher opposition albeit at home BUT we've kinda sucked at home. We have played poorly against the teams we need to beat so one needn't worry about match ups.

    Tomorrows game means nothing since we have Brandon, Calgary, Edmonton, Red Deer, PA, Kootenay right after that. A win tomorrow means nothing and should have no bearing on what needs to be done. Saskatoon just beat Swift Current so this one isn't a gimmes either. I posted Lethbridge was playing well and would be tough. I am one of the few who believed it. It shouldn't alter what good management of assets needs to be.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    We made one round in 11-12 for 5 games and what did that do for our young players? Missed the playoffs the following year. It's a myth is all. When you've finally gone deep into the playoffs and your organization is on the upswing players know what it takes and it becomes helpful.
    I have to disagree with you on this one, yes we missed the playoffs the following year but with all the injuries we had even aa top franchise like Kelowna wouldn't of done much better. Playoff experience is extremely valuable in a players development, ask any scout, GM, Head Coach they will all say the same thing. Players like Burroughs, Klimchuk & Stephenson all got a taste of what it takes to move onto the next level of their development. The intensity it takes to win at that time of the year can never be duplicated unless your actually in that situation. You may not agree that a few playoff games does nothing for a players development but I highly disagree with you on that one & I'm damn sure virtually every single coach at this level would disagree with you as well.

    I also don't think Schiedl would of had the season he had last yeaar without that taste of playoff hockey & what it actually takes to move onto the next level which he has accomplished by playing in the AHL

  4. #14

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    Here is mt 2 cents. Playoff experience is valuable only if the team makes the playoffs for a few years in a row. the majority of these players are in ther league for 3 or 4 years. We all know that the majority of the team is 18s and 19s so to make the playoffs, then miss, then make them again only 3 of those players remain on the team as 20s. With this senerio the 16s on the team the first play year they see more suit time than ice time. Even dressed it is probibly 6 shifts a game or 4 to 5 min. of ice time. They will experience the added hipe, the full and loud arenas and playing the same team repeatedly
    Looking at the Pats, as all have said on the blog, we need to up grades our 17s (96) group, IMO with out that we will be hard pressed to make the playoffs next season
    I am still in the sell camp get 2 quality 17s and 2 2014 draft picks1st or 2nd round and we could still get in the playoffs for one round as we could not handle Edm, Cal, Med Hat,Swift, or any of the teams that are top 4. Our play off experience is 4 or 5 games and out. Not as valuable as winning a round.
    Last edited by RWAH; 01-03-2014 at 10:45 AM. Reason: added last sentence

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    Nobody wants to see any kid hurt and all we can hope is that they both fully recover soon.

    If memory serves me right Steel had a shoulder issue before and got back just before the Mac's. I don't know what his current issue is but unless these shoulder issues are dealt with they can linger. Steel needs to spend a lot of time in the weight room building up his upper body and putting on 10 lbs.
    Agreed, too bad these 15 year olds are suffering these injuries before they even make it to the dub. I'm really interested to see who turns out to be better between these 2. Looks like Steel has higher skill but not very big, Patrick has the size but not such elite skills......
    Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdude114 View Post
    I have to disagree with you on this one, yes we missed the playoffs the following year but with all the injuries we had even aa top franchise like Kelowna wouldn't of done much better. Playoff experience is extremely valuable in a players development, ask any scout, GM, Head Coach they will all say the same thing. Players like Burroughs, Klimchuk & Stephenson all got a taste of what it takes to move onto the next level of their development. The intensity it takes to win at that time of the year can never be duplicated unless your actually in that situation. You may not agree that a few playoff games does nothing for a players development but I highly disagree with you on that one & I'm damn sure virtually every single coach at this level would disagree with you as well.

    I also don't think Schiedl would of had the season he had last yeaar without that taste of playoff hockey & what it actually takes to move onto the next level which he has accomplished by playing in the AHL

    Your entitled to you opinion and I respect that! I however completely and utterly disagree with it! I sat with a Central Scouting scout for years, I have been a WHL scout for two teams. I still have coffee from time to time with a grand old WHL scout, and I personally know ex-gm's in this league This topic has been discussed many times and there is no consensus to support that position. I like to base things on facts. It's all about a culture of winning and many have never witnessed that with the Pats, however I have! I was in the rink the last time they played in a League final. You mention Scheidl but that's more of an anomaly. You must have forgotten guys like Eberle and Mitchell from the 07-08 team who never seen playoffs again, even though they were the leaders who should have benefitted according to your opinion.

    Kelowna goes deep into the playoffs nearly every year because of an abundance of talent, coaching, good management plus the culture of the organization is winning and players benefit from that. Portland missed the playoffs (dead last) from 06-09. They made the playoffs in 2010 and haven't looked back. They have a culture of winning and play deep into the playoffs. That breeds the culture. Medicine Hat has it, Calgary has it, Kootenay have it etc. Until you change the culture and how the team is managed for success, there is no correlation between occasional foray's into the playoffs and future success. The league is littered with examples of that. I could give you dozens of examples. Of course this is only my opinion.

    Point to the post is that some think that by hanging on to assets to make a round of playoffs; is more valuable than moving them to bring in the young talent needed. The talent to help what we have and to build this highly talented team we desire that is able to go three rounds, and be recognized as an up and coming powerhouse. Based on one round of playoffs I have never agreed and never will to failing to act. I simply don't understand it. Sadly I have doubts I will ever see a powerhouse here in Regina before I die. A lot of 30 somethings will turn into 50 year old men still waiting. As long as we're .500 and make the occasional playoff appearance that's pretty good I guess.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RWAH View Post
    Here is mt 2 cents. Playoff experience is valuable only if the team makes the playoffs for a few years in a row. the majority of these players are in ther league for 3 or 4 years. We all know that the majority of the team is 18s and 19s so to make the playoffs, then miss, then make them again only 3 of those players remain on the team as 20s. With this senerio the 16s on the team the first play year they see more suit time than ice time. Even dressed it is probibly 6 shifts a game or 4 to 5 min. of ice time. They will experience the added hipe, the full and loud arenas and playing the same team repeatedly
    Looking at the Pats, as all have said on the blog, we need to up grades our 17s (96) group, IMO with out that we will be hard pressed to make the playoffs next season
    I am still in the sell camp get 2 quality 17s and 2 2014 draft picks1st or 2nd round and we could still get in the playoffs for one round as we could not handle Edm, Cal, Med Hat,Swift, or any of the teams that are top 4. Our play off experience is 4 or 5 games and out. Not as valuable as winning a round.
    Good post RWAH......................you totally get it! Once you reach elite status you will go deep in the playoffs, players understand, a culture is developed and excellence continues.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbtatter View Post
    Agreed, too bad these 15 year olds are suffering these injuries before they even make it to the dub. I'm really interested to see who turns out to be better between these 2. Looks like Steel has higher skill but not very big, Patrick has the size but not such elite skills......
    With 15 year old it's almost impossible to tell. The one thing I can tell you is that skating is more and more the order of the day both in the Dub and NHL. Ideally 6'3" - 200 and skate like the wind. I'll take 20 of em..LOL

    I think both kids will bring what their respective teams need. I can say I really like young Clague. You absolutely stole a gem.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    With 15 year old it's almost impossible to tell. The one thing I can tell you is that skating is more and more the order of the day both in the Dub and NHL. Ideally 6'3" - 200 and skate like the wind. I'll take 20 of em..LOL

    I think both kids will bring what their respective teams need. I can say I really like young Clague. You absolutely stole a gem.
    i think sometimes wingers don't realize how effective they can be just by skating hard around a d-man. With the newer rules regarding hooking, holding, a d-man has very little protection against a forward skating fast around him. A quick pass to your center, then skate hard past the dman entering the zone to the front of the net will end up in a penalty a high percentage of times, unless you're going by a good skating d-man like Morrissey, Pouliot, Jones etc who can skate with the winger....
    Clague looks like the real deal, so does Kaspick.
    Never argue with idiots, they just drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdude114 View Post
    Well from reading on here & even on roddy's & phil's blog the fans (even though prob all us same people on here as there blogs) are that the fans want us to be sellers now after a terrible start to the 2nd 1/2 of the year... so with that said lets get the ball rolling here....


    With Portland releasing 20yr old Shane McColgan today does that open the door to get the Leier cousins on the same team for a championship run? So Boston Leier to PORT for??? I think all they lost was just there 1st rd picks from the league busting their arses last season but we wouldn't get a 1st rd pick back in return anyways, but a 2nd and a roster prospect player maybe? Guys that are of some interest to me anyways are Ethan Price, Keegan Iverson, Dominic Turgeon, Keoni Texeira & Colton Veloso (who is on a callup during the WJs and is from wpg) In general though the Hawks had some very weak 20yr olds this season they still got ex-Pat Adam Rossignol (8 big pts in 25gp) Haar is pretty solid though.

    Another option for the Pats could be Dyson Stevenson to Seattle as they have a 20yr old spot open as well. Maybe a guy like Ryan Gropp (who I mentioned before) & instead of a pick a '98 kid from Saskatoon in Kaden Elder... although im not really sure how serious SEA is about buying as they don't really have a legit #1 goalie there to make a run against teams like Port/Kel/Vic/Evt but with that said don't watch Seattle enough to truly know how good this Danny Mumaugh really is he played a very good game against the Pats when we were though.

    As to where Stephenson could end up that is a tough 1 to say right now, maybe Victoria would be looking to add an impact 19yr old. Its the last year euo goalies are allowed in the league & there goalie Patrik Polivka is having a very strong season with a .921SV% 2.43GAA 5SO they could feel its there year to make a serious run & may think they are only a player away from doing that.

    For some reason I have this feeling that Braden Christoffer will be dealt, he would be a great depth player for a contending team. He brings energy, physical play, will drop the mits & has a scoring touch. Just think a team may be interested in him, his return wouldn't be that great for us but could maybe land a 18yr old for him.



    These are just my thoughts I have no idea who teams may be willing to trade to possibly land guys like Leier, Stevenson, Stephenson... the players listed above are just guys I would like to see come our way is all.....realisticly none of them may not even be moved as they are building blocks for their current team
    Getting back on the topic PD114 posted I am genuinely surprised at how little action there has been League wide. At last count I think there have been only four deals. Saskatoon has been a bit picked over but MJ, Lethbridge, PG and Kamloops have some useable players, if not impact.

    In the East I see Calgary, Edmonton, PA, Kootenay, and Swift Current having made deals. It looks like PA may have done a bit more, but the others also feel they have strengthened. That leaves Medicine Hat, Red Deer, Brandon, and the Pats not doing anything yet. How do you get what you need and where do you get it from, and how much$. It's a question mark about which of the nine contending teams will falter. Is it a planned decision or will one simply falter.

    I have to think that those that have are asking too much. I know a lot of GM's are taking a hard look to see what they need if anything, to get to the dance. I am starting to get the sense that maybe there won't be as many deals as anticipated. While I feel we need some serious help in some age groups, I not convinced that's going to happen to the extent needed.

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