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Thread: 2014-2015 roster

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    I am not really too clear about what you mean. Are you saying that if 18-19 year olds are getting pushed off the team by players that are younger and have a higher level of skill and compete level (obviously this would be a requirement for them to bump an older player off the roster), that the team is probably not going to be as good, as compared to the team with the older, less skilled and less competitive players? I think we might be talking about two entirely different things...
    No, that's not what I'm saying, and yes we are talking about two entirely different things. What you're saying is that it's a good sign that these younger guys are outperforming and pushing the older guys for their jobs. Which, on this current team we have here, sure, it's good news, because we don't really have much to write home about in that 18-19 y/o age group on this club; we're coming off a pretty uninspiring season and the prognosis for this year isn't a whole lot better, so the young guys might as well step up and get their PT in because why not?

    What I'm saying is, your club probably isn't going to be very good if the quality of your 18-19 year olds is so poor that their spots on the club are in jeopardy to 16-17 year olds. Kind of like this team. Hence why I don't feel it's "always a good thing" to see your older guys in danger of losing roster spots. That's a reflection on the fact that your team, in all likelihood, isn't going to do anything noteworthy that season. You're not winning anything in this league without a good, established group of 18-19 year olds.
    Last edited by calcheyup; 08-07-2014 at 11:49 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    What I'm saying is, your club probably isn't going to be very good if the quality of your 18-19 year olds is so poor that their spots on the club are in jeopardy to 16-17 year olds.
    Ok, I get what you are saying now. When you said 'isn't going to be', I thought you were talking about the future team getting worse, rather than the past/current team not being very competitive.

    Which, on this current team we have here, sure, it's good news, because we don't really have much to write home about in that 18-19 y/o age group on this club
    They have some fantastic 18 year olds (Bleackley, Fleury) and some 18/19 year olds that showed improvement last season (Feser, Johnson, Kopeck, Polei). I think that unfortunately, all of the 18/19 year olds that are question marks, are primarily on the blueline (Charif, Bear, Dixon).

    we're coming off a pretty uninspiring season and the prognosis for this year isn't a whole lot better, so the young guys might as well step up and get their PT in because why not?
    That was last season where they had as many as a dozen rookies in the lineup for stretches of the season. I would like to think that most of those guys benefited from the experience, however now they have no starting goaltender, and are potentially facing turnover of all but two defensemen from last season.

    Obviously the biggest question is, who is going to step in and try to fill Bartosak's shoes, but beyond that, I believe there are a few other key question marks.

    Is Cote going to be an upgrade on Gaudet? It is really hard to imagine a defenseman that could play worse than Gaudet last season... He brings 209 games of regular season experience, and 19 games of playoff experience, though his point totals dipped a bit last season, and he is a career minus player. If he starts taking himself out of position to generate offense, taking two or three stupid penalties every game, and having guys blow by him like he isn't there, it is going to be another looooooong season.

    Will Jansens and/or Grman make the blueline better? You have to go all the way back to Mikko Kuukka to find an import defenseman that enjoyed any sort of success with the Rebels. With them potentially adding two import blueliners, is this the season that they get that impact import defenseman?

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    Is Cote going to be an upgrade on Gaudet? It is really hard to imagine a defenseman that could play worse than Gaudet last season...
    You just answered your own question.

    Will Jansens and/or Grman make the blueline better?
    Is it even guaranteed they will be here this year? I haven't heard anything about that aspect of it yet.

    With them potentially adding two import blueliners, is this the season that they get that impact import defenseman?
    I sure hope so, but I'd be lying if I said I knew anything about what to expect from these guys. But both of those guys would need to be legit top 4 WHL d-men in addition to Burman surprising everyone for this year's Rebels team to be competitive. I hope it happens, but I'm also not going to hold my breath on it either. It would be great if Sutter could add a stay-at-home type before this season, but easier said than done.

  4. #24

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    [QUOTE]we're coming off a pretty uninspiring season and the prognosis for this year isn't a whole lot better.

    Funny to see these comments coming from calcheyup in the same week that Brent Sutter confirms that Red Deer will be bidding on the 2016 Memorial Cup and one of the main criteria he is using in his bid is quality of team. Last year's team missed the playoffs and you like to think that it is a building process to get to be a memorial cup contender which would mean that this team is going to make some strides this year to be a contender in 2016.

    There is a pile of work that goes into a Memorial cup bid and with Brent making comments about how things went in Saskatoon for the Blades, he will not set himself up for the same embarassment. So obviously he must feel that he has the personal in place to be better this year and a contender the following year.

    I mentioned it last year as well that there isn't that big of differences in these junior hockey teams and that 1 or 2 players stepping up or joining the team can make a huge difference in how the season goes. I would like to think that Bleaks and Fluery are going to continue their progression and be top players in this league. When you look at the success that Kootney and Medicine Hat have had over the last few years, they were doing it on the strength of one line and a couple of top players.

    I agree that there are some question marks on our goaltending going in, but we have the prospects and draft picks available to make a trade if we need to solidify that position.

    Although Brent has made some questionable moves and has some coaching techniques that I haven't agreed with at times, I still believe he is a great hockey mind and the team that he has put together had the work ethic installed in them last year and from what I can tell is gaining skill this year. Looking at how the roster is shaping up, I can't see how we won't have a better team than last year. I guess I agree with Brent's assessment of the team more than calcheyup's. Right now at least.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    Is it even guaranteed they will be here this year? I haven't heard anything about that aspect of it yet.
    Like a lot of CHL import picks, they were selected based upon the player's agent proactively approaching the team. It seems really unlikely that they wouldn't show up for training camp, when the whole thing was basically arranged by their agents.

    But both of those guys would need to be legit top 4 WHL d-men in addition to Burman surprising everyone for this year's Rebels team to be competitive.
    I would be extremely surprised if Burman went from being not even WHL backup caliber last season, to a starter this year. I am personally not at all impressed with his development last season, or lack thereof.

    It would be great if Sutter could add a stay-at-home type before this season, but easier said than done.
    I can't imagine that he he is going to make any big moves prior to the decision being made on the Memorial cup host. It seems unlikely that they will be awarded the bid, but if they do pull it off somehow, Sutter has a lot of work to do in the next offseason.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie
    Funny to see these comments coming from calcheyup in the same week that Brent Sutter confirms that Red Deer will be bidding on the 2016 Memorial Cup and one of the main criteria he is using in his bid is quality of team. Last year's team missed the playoffs and you like to think that it is a building process to get to be a memorial cup contender which would mean that this team is going to make some strides this year to be a contender in 2016.
    Sorry to say, but no matter how much you may want it to be so, putting a Memorial Cup bid in doesn't make the team any better.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    Sorry to say, but no matter how much you may want it to be so, putting a Memorial Cup bid in doesn't make the team any better.
    It is really tough to compete with the OHL. Their restriction on trading first round picks one of the greatest things ever introduced to junior hockey. In the OHL, contending teams/bidding teams acquire impact rental players for 2nd round picks and/or a roster player/prospect. In the WHL, the price tag for the same player is usually 2 or 3 first round picks, and a pile of prospects. The OHL teams load up on three or four NHL-drafted players at the deadline, and they are ready to go.

    In the QMJHL, despite having no restriction in place on 1st round picks, being awarded the hosting rights to the Memorial Cup tournament doesn't seem to create the same "Lets drag them over the coals on all their trades!" mentality that exists in the WHL. Whatever WHL team is awarded the Memorial Cup hosting rights, is going to overpay for mediocre talent, and grossly overpay for fantastic talent.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    Sorry to say, but no matter how much you may want it to be so, putting a Memorial Cup bid in doesn't make the team any better.
    Calcheup here is a interview that Brent did for the Pipeline show in Edmonton in he talks about the process the team did to prepare for the Mem cup bid. Many people around the league feel the Rebs are on a upswing and that the team will be competitive going forward do they have some question marks yes but the core group is there. Have a listen and yes for a team to make a memorial cup bid they need to be better :-) Here is Red Deers draft order for 2015 and 2016 taken from the Small Thoughts at Large Blog. Red Deer will need these assets to insure they put forward a good team if trade bait is required.

    2015 draft order
    Red Deer: (1 first, 2 seconds, 1 third, 2 fourths, 1 fifth, 2 sixths, 1 seventh, 1 eighth, 1 ninth, 1 tenth)
    - acquired a 2nd round pick from Portland in the Mat Dumba trade (December 10, 2013)
    - traded a 4th round pick to Tri-City for Kaleb Denham (October 1, 2012)
    - acquired a 4th round pick from Regina in the Colten Mayor / Stephen Hak deal (October 18, 2012)
    - acquired a 4th round pick from Vancouver for Dominik Volek (January 9, 2014)
    - acquired a 6th round pick from Regina in the Colten Mayor / Stephen Hak deal (October 18, 2012)

    2016 draft order
    Red Deer: (1 first, 2 seconds, 2 thirds, 1 fourth, 1 fifth, 2 sixths, 1 seventh, 1 eighth, 1 ninth, 0 tenths)
    - acquired a 2nd round pick from Portland in the Mat Dumba deal (December 10, 2013)
    - acquired a 3rd round pick from Vancouver for Dominik Volek (January 9, 2014)
    - acquired a 6th round pick from Kamloops for Bolton Pouliot (September 9, 2013)
    - traded a 10th round pick to Moose Jaw for Spencer Morse (August 20, 2013

    http://www.thepipelineshow.com/clips...utter_Aug9.mp3
    Last edited by Red celtic; 08-09-2014 at 07:00 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    It is really tough to compete with the OHL. Their restriction on trading first round picks one of the greatest things ever introduced to junior hockey. In the OHL, contending teams/bidding teams acquire impact rental players for 2nd round picks and/or a roster player/prospect. In the WHL, the price tag for the same player is usually 2 or 3 first round picks, and a pile of prospects. The OHL teams load up on three or four NHL-drafted players at the deadline, and they are ready to go.

    In the QMJHL, despite having no restriction in place on 1st round picks, being awarded the hosting rights to the Memorial Cup tournament doesn't seem to create the same "Lets drag them over the coals on all their trades!" mentality that exists in the WHL. Whatever WHL team is awarded the Memorial Cup hosting rights, is going to overpay for mediocre talent, and grossly overpay for fantastic talent.
    No question. The Blades, for example, gave up 11 picks, including their '13 and '14 first rounders and 3 second rounders, to acquire Ferland, Benoit, Burns, Valcourt, McColgan, and Walker. Some of those guys played some really good hockey for the Blades, but it's still a staggering number of picks to give up to build a club for one year.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red celtic View Post
    Calcheup here is a interview that Brent did for the Pipeline show in Edmonton in he talks about the process the team did to prepare for the Mem cup bid. Many people around the league feel the Rebs are on a upswing and that the team will be competitive going forward do they have some question marks yes but the core group is there.
    They do have some really nice pieces, yes, but at present the question marks are massive in net and on the blueline. This team is more than 1-2 pieces away from being a force even within the division.

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