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Thread: 2014-2015 roster

  1. #381

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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    A pretty disappointing end to the season, but hardly a surprising one, and it illustrates the point I've been making for most of the season (but has been written off as a hater's point of view): this team is not close. A lot of work to be done to get this team where it can even be taken seriously as a contender for the conference, nevermind the Memorial Cup. I hope next year is worth it, because Sutter's going to lose his shirt with the sheer number of high quality pieces he needs to add.
    Well rather than just say it as an emotional reaction, what would you like to see done?

    They have a secure goaltending position, a solid group of d, and a strong group of forwards that could use 1-2 high end pieces. The team won 40 games this year haha, not sure what more you could want with rookie goaltending.

    Musil
    Pawlenchuk
    Bleackley
    Polei
    Gay
    Johnson(my pick)
    Kopeck (my pick)
    Feser


    those would be the top 6 forwards at this point IMO. 2 additional forward pieces would make it a top 9. Thats a good top 9. All of those guys either have, or would, put up over 50 points next year. the key is the 2-3 new forwards. if one or two are euros, than the team is in reallyyyy good shape.


    Dewit
    Johnson
    Pratt (??)
    Nell
    Adamson

    Those are your 4th liners, which they were this year, which speaks to the depth they would have up front.


    Doetzel (my 20 pick)
    Fleury
    Bobyk
    Nogier
    Strand
    Mahura

    Again, solid group of D. arguably the best in the conference.

    Your comment about "losing his shirt" would be under the assumption that the team needs to acquire 4-5 top end players, which I dont think they need to, because i'm not sure where you would put them.

  2. #382

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    You control one line and you control the Medicine Hat Tigers. As you have heard Cam say 20 times tonight. They have 9 of the tigers 12 goals in this series. Judging by the fact that Sheen is a minus 2 tonight, I am guessing Sutter is using his line against MHs top line again tonight. We seen the improvement in the Rebels in the third period Thursday when the Johnson line played against them. Johnson is the top defensive forward on this Rebel team. You have to question coaching with that decision.
    A 20th and a second round pick for a 6th overall pick is not what I would consider good value. You hear NHL and WHL GMs say it all the time that after about the tenth overall pick there isn't much difference between players thru the third round. Sutter was excited to get Leschyshyn with that pick and he is playing effective minutes right now for Regina as a 15 year old. Hopefully Regina struggles the start of next year to give that first round pick a higher value for trade bait early as there is still some major holes up front that need to be filled on the Rebels next year.
    SectionN is bang on with his assessment of Feser's play. He is a 19 year old, not playing against Medicine Hat's top players and has been a huge liability at times. I don't know if a younger player would have played any better in game 4, but can't seen how they would have played any worse.
    I agree 100% that there are lots of teams that go from a first round loss to a third or fourth the next year. The problem is this team is in the Memorial cup next year. Guessing I wouldn't like the stats for teams that exit the first round in 5 games and win the show the following year. Sutter has lots of work to do before trade deadline next year.
    The home team has the last change. Enough said.

    I dont want to come across as an over-the-top optimist, but man, this team finished 4th in the conference this year, and probably higher if healthy down the stretch. They return all but one d, a good collection of top 6 forwards, and both goalies. Sure they need to bring in a couple players, which contender doesnt?? I dont recall the numbers, but they have a large assortment of draft picks to do it. But you guys want to take this team to the woodshed, and i dont really understand why haha

  3. #383

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    I agree there is work to be done. To say they are not even close is a bit much. There is a lot of parity between teams in this division. Kootney is taking Calgary to game 7. With the exception of the empty net goal, every game in this series was a one goal game and could have went either way. I would say the difference in the series was Medicine Hat's goaltending was a bit better (Toth played fantastic but let in some stinkers) and Medicine Hat's top players were better than Red Deers. For the sake of the Colorado Avalanche, I hope Bleackley was playing hurt as he wasn't even close to the Bleackley that should have been playing in this series. If that is indeed the case, a healthy Conner Bleackley could have turned this series. The comments being made about Sutter solidifying the Memorial cup team this year, may hold some truth for the defense, but there is a lot of work to do yet on forward.
    Going into next year they have:
    Bleackley (if he doesn't get kept in the show which is a safe bet based on this year's performance)
    Polei
    De Wit
    Pawlenchuk
    R. Johnson
    W. Johnson
    Musil
    Pratt
    Which leaves 4 roster spots open.
    Kopeck, Gay, and Feser in the running for the last 20 year old spot. Maybe it goes to Kopeck, but personally I would like to see a little more offence come from that spot.
    Don't know if Nell and Adamson have enough to offer to be on a Memorial cup team.
    Hopefully, Red Deer can reverse their horrible import draft picks of the last few years and pick up a goal scoring forward.
    Like it or not, if Red Deer wasn't hosting the memorial cup next year, McCarty, Burke and Leschyshyn would have been filling the three empty roster spots. Looking now like picks will have to be traded to acquire roster players.

  4. #384

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    Like it or not, if Red Deer wasn't hosting the memorial cup next year, McCarty, Burke and Leschyshyn would have been filling the three empty roster spots. Looking now like picks will have to be traded to acquire roster players.
    You're right, but they are hosting, and they were probably traded with the cup in mind, so not sure what your point is. I'm gonna put my chips behind the theory that Sutter wont be filling the roster with players of Burke or McCarty's calibre. There hasn't been a championship team in a long time that hasn;t dealt for players in the summer or at the deadline, you can only build with your own players to a certain point. I personally would like to send some appreciation to the scouts who had all the 17 year olds this year that turned out, thus the club had moveable players in that age group. Pawlenchuk, Musil, Nell, Burman, Strand, Mccarty, Burke.

  5. #385

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockey4 View Post
    Well rather than just say it as an emotional reaction, what would you like to see done?
    How is what I said "emotional"? It's a fact. The team is not even close to being a Memorial Cup contender and a lot of changes need to be made.

    They have a secure goaltending position, a solid group of d, and a strong group of forwards that could use 1-2 high end pieces. The team won 40 games this year haha, not sure what more you could want with rookie goaltending.
    I just shake my head at this. You guys don't seem to understand that having a good team does not equal having a Memorial Cup-caliber team. Honestly, next year aside, this was a pretty decent club this year. I don't have many complaints about how things turned out considering what they started the season with. But we're not talking about having a good club. We're talking about having a team that can win the Memorial Cup next year. And if you think this team right now is just a piece or two away - you're wrong. I'm sorry. That's not my opinion. That's a fact.

    Musil
    Pawlenchuk
    Bleackley
    Polei
    Gay
    Johnson(my pick)
    Kopeck (my pick)
    Feser

    Your comment about "losing his shirt" would be under the assumption that the team needs to acquire 4-5 top end players, which I dont think they need to, because i'm not sure where you would put them.
    Uh...is this a joke?? Polei, Kopeck, Feser, Gay, Pawlenchuk are all guys who don't need to be improved on to win the Memorial Cup? You realize they are losing a first line forward, a 40+ point defenseman, and a 27-goal scorer, right? You do understand that the Rebels were just dumped in the first round of the WHL playoffs easily, right? And yet they only need 1-2 players to put them over the top to compete in the Memorial Cup, even absent Sheen, Maxwell, and Cote?

    Your "analysis" of the situation is absolutely laughable. Try again.
    Last edited by calcheyup; 04-05-2015 at 12:14 AM.

  6. #386

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    I agree there is work to be done. To say they are not even close is a bit much.
    Respectfully, if you are sitting there and say that next year, the Rebels are close to being a a contender for the conference, nevermind the Memorial Cup, without major moves being made, you are only fooling yourself.

  7. #387

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    Hockey4

    Point I am making is they don't just need upgrades for the spots, they need bodies for the spots. Everyone has nothing good to say about Burke and McCarty and yet they were the young guys that made the last set of cuts on this team this year. So if they are so bad, then there must not be anything left in the system unless some late round 16 year olds are going to surprise next year. The only thing left for trade bait on this team that will bring any return are Mahura and Strand. Even though they will be in the Memorial cup, it is going to take some pretty significant progression from the core group of forwards that you had in your top 6 to be memorial cup contenders. If we don't see the progression (which we certainly didn't this year) then it will be Saskatoon all over again where every pick is traded to fill the spots and you get years of bottom dwelling afterwards. What I wanted to see was the core group progress this year and the moves that Sutter made make this team closer to a contender this year. I don't think we seen either and that concerns me for next year. If at the start of the year, you would have told me that Bleackley would be 95th in whl scoring, I would have taken the bet in a heartbeat. He is just one of the many that had very slightly better, flat or down offensive output to last year.
    Last edited by Moonergroupie; 04-05-2015 at 12:45 AM.

  8. #388

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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    How is what I said "emotional"? It's a fact. The team is not even close to being a Memorial Cup contender and a lot of changes need to be made.


    I just shake my head at this. You guys don't seem to understand that having a good team does not equal having a Memorial Cup-caliber team. Honestly, next year aside, this was a pretty decent club this year. I don't have many complaints about how things turned out considering what they started the season with. But we're not talking about having a good club. We're talking about having a team that can win the Memorial Cup next year. And if you think this team right now is just a piece or two away - you're wrong. I'm sorry. That's not my opinion. That's a fact.


    Uh...is this a joke?? Polei, Kopeck, Feser, Gay, Pawlenchuk are all guys who don't need to be improved on to win the Memorial Cup? You realize they are losing a first line forward, a 40+ point defenseman, and a 27-goal scorer, right? You do understand that the Rebels were just dumped in the first round of the WHL playoffs easily, right? And yet they only need 1-2 players to put them over the top to compete in the Memorial Cup, even absent Sheen, Maxwell, and Cote?

    Your "analysis" of the situation is absolutely laughable. Try again.
    Your aware that teams lose 3 20 year olds every year right?? Rmbr when the team lost Dieno and Bartosak after last year, both of whom had bigger impacts than the 20's this yr.

    You've mentioned the same thing, but you havent actually said what you want changed. I'll take the 40 wins and say the team needs to add a few pieces, rather than look at a series we were the underdog in, end up losing to that older team, and say blow it up haha

    I guess if you felt the team easily lost this series than I guess we saw 2 different series.

    2 of Gay Feser and Kopeck wont be here, so I wouldnt spend much time finding guys to replace them. Pawlenchuk and Polei would be considered strong 2-3rd liners in this league. When you put Bleackley, Kopeck (my pick) Johnson, Musil, and 2 forwards (the ones they need to get) ahead of them, thats what they will be. Not sure if you've misread my post or your just too emotional to look at it logically.

    For reference, last years Memorial Cup winners....

    Lazar
    Samuelsson
    Moroz
    Kulda
    Eller
    Petryk

    Those were their top 6 forwards. So, as I'll mention again, the current top 6, with 2 additions of top end forwards would be very comparable. A euro would really help the process.

  9. #389

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    Hockey4

    Point I am making is they don't just need upgrades for the spots, they need bodies for the spots. Everyone has nothing good to say about Burke and McCarty and yet they were the young guys that made the last set of cuts on this team this year. So if they are so bad, then there must not be anything left in the system unless some late round 16 year olds are going to surprise next year. The only thing left for trade bait on this team that will bring any return are Mahura and Strand. Even though they will be in the Memorial cup, it is going to take some pretty significant progression from the core group of forwards that you had in your top 6 to be memorial cup contenders. If we don't see the progression (which we certainly didn't this year) then it will be Saskatoon all over again where every pick is traded to fill the spots and you get years of bottom dwelling afterwards. What I wanted to see was the core group progress this year and the moves that Sutter made make this team closer to a contender this year. I don't think we seen either and that concerns me for next year. If at the start of the year, you would have told me that Bleackley would be 95th in whl scoring, I would have taken the bet in a heartbeat. He is just one of the many that had very slightly better, flat or down offensive output to last year.
    The team is short 2 top 6 forwards and maybe another forward. They have 6-7 of the top 9 right now They have an abundance of picks to do that and one (two??) euro spots. The bottom 4 forwards should remain the bottom 4.

    Well in terms of progression I saw big strides from Johnson and Kopeck. Musil became a force the last 2 months, and I felt Pawlenchuk had a really strong playoff. Bleackley, before he got hurt, was playing extrememly well. I wont vouch for his point total, but he was a PPG player with a slow start and then missed 20 games or whatever it was. When healthy he's a top 10 forward in the WHL. Based on this years totals, I would project next year...

    Bleackley - 80pts
    Johnson - 70 points
    Kopeck - 60 points
    Musil - 60 points
    Pawlenchuk - 45 points
    Polei - 45 points

    I never said all those guys would be in the top 6. With an addition of 2 guys in that group, you have 3rd liners getting 40+ points. IMO this is very much a team that has many pieces in place.

    Fleury's game really improved in the last 25 games, so I expect him to have a bounce back season. Him bobyk and mahura would arguably being the point getters on the back end next season.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by hockey4 View Post
    Your comment about "losing his shirt" would be under the assumption that the team needs to acquire 4-5 top end players, which I dont think they need to, because i'm not sure where you would put them.
    I know it is tough to think about, given that some of these guys are hard workers, and in some cases have put in a lot of time here in Red Deer, but it is highly unlikely that we won't see some of them moved to upgrade the scoring depth. Some of the players that we will probably see moved, are ones that we wouldn't normally see moved, and we probably won't be too happy about some of them.

    I think that Doetzel is a top-end shutdown defenseman, and a real 'quiet leader' on the team, and Johnson is a versatile, top two-way forward in this league. I think that those two should be locks for next season.

    This leaves Kopeck, Feser and Gay to round out the other overage spot. I think that if an elite player gets reassigned to the WHL next season, and a deal is there to be made for them, there isn't any possible way that any of these three are here past the trade deadline. Kopeck is my pick to stick around, at least until the trade deadline, of those three.

    Quote Originally Posted by hockey4
    Musil
    Pawlenchuk
    Bleackley
    Polei
    Gay
    Johnson(my pick)
    Kopeck (my pick)
    Feser


    those would be the top 6 forwards at this point IMO. 2 additional forward pieces would make it a top 9. Thats a good top 9. All of those guys either have, or would, put up over 50 points next year. the key is the 2-3 new forwards. if one or two are euros, than the team is in reallyyyy good shape.
    Gay, Feser, and Kopeck won't all be returning, and while they have other talents and intangible qualities, 50 points from Pawlenchuk and Polei seems quite optimistic, given their production this season.

    In the Memorial Cup, they will be facing teams with solid depth on the blueline, and players with 50+ goals and 100+ points, so rolling a few lines of players with 50 or 60 points probably isn't going to cut it, barring an otherworldly effort from their goaltending in the Memorial Cup.

    I think the Defense is pretty much set for next season. Players to keep an eye on will be Bobyk and Mahura. These two combined should be able to compensate for the loss of Cote, IF Bobyk can stay healthy, and Mahura continues to improve. If not, I think there could still be a move made for a defenseman next season.

    In goal, Toth has been good, but still has some weak areas to his game, and if he gets injured, are Burman and Martin going to carry the load? I can see a move being made here to improve the goaltending depth.

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