Opening Weekend Series vs BRN

[Thatshockey1965]

If I can offer my two cents into these conversations I would say this

1) way to much individual play. Forwards and D men included. They are young and will be taught that this is not midget. The puck moves much faster than ANY player. The young Russian D man didn't even look. Perhaps that is the forwards not finding open ice but there where numerous options. Steel thinks this is midget as well. He turned it over half dozen times at the defensive bluline which is an absolute NO NO but again he will learn.

2) the defense must move the puck. Numerous times they cycled in the D zone forcing regroups. This kills flows in games, but perhaps that is a forward issue not finding open ice. They need to be tougher as well.

3) forwards are young and need to start moving there feet both offensively and defensively. The vets need to step up I agree with the comments but they are also playing a new system which makes it hard for them as well. The goal off of the face off was BAD as no one moved and Wapple was left by himself

4) goal tending has been very steady but the D has to stop backing in on Wapple.

Brandon is a very good team. They pressured the D and that wasn't reacted too very well by the Pats both from our ad and the forwards. You have to work through that trap system. It will be interesting to see the results against MJ PA Sask Etc. The team is VERY young and they will grow with leaps and bounds. I would not take those teams lightly at all.

What does this team need. IMO some stay at home D men of decent size that are puck movers. Not easy to find.

Do you add them at the cost of younger guys developing?

Burroughs will be back IMO. Williams was decent Then looks at the D Reagan played 25 odd games last year and when he did he would play 5-8 shifts a game. Harrison played more at the end but sat a ton in the beginning of the season as well. Hansen didn't play D, but thought he was decent lastnight. Hilsendeger is a raw rookie, and the Russian the same, but also new to North American game.

Forwards. They dressed 4 full rookies. Steel mcammond smith cole. Wagner and Zimmer got about the same ice as Reagan perhaps less last year. So remember that is 2 full lines of call them raw rookies. I challenge that there is not a team in the league that has that kind of line up or even close, but with that said they have huge upside and that will come quickly IMO. The raw talents are there. Wagner is big and fast. Zimmers skating has improved dramatically. Smith is improving already mcammond is good along with cole. Steel will be fine but I don't think as good as everyone boasts. He is 16 and being put into huge situations and needs to learn to play within his game.

Brooks is improving tons and needs to get confidence. I like his skills so IMO give him a couple of months and I think your opinion will change.

Gay Christopher damico hunt mcveigh will be leaned on heavy for production and steady play. Pressure is heavy on them.


Just my opinions

[patsdude114]

What does this team need. IMO some stay at home D men of decent size that are puck movers. Not easy to find.

I agree with everything you said but I cut out this from your message cause we had this big stay at home type Dman in Schacher but we traded him for a useless 8th round pick. Sure he may of not moved the puck that well but that is why you have support from your D partner as well as the center down low. I just found it odd that we traded away our biggest Dman and we already lack size on the backend.

Anyways its 2 games into the season no need to hit the panic button yet as there is lots of hockey to be played but I am not changing my predictions on this team that we are a 8th placed team in the conference & even then may slip out of that (& this was made before they changed the playoff format which may save us if we can be better then MJ SAS & PA for 3rd spot lol)

[Thatshockey1965]

Agreed with you Patsdude about Williams. I would blame him for the minus's in Brandon. You can look really bad in plus minus because of other players brutal plays, empty nets etc.

If your the one making the mistakes that cost the goals them that is a problem.
Burroughs coming back will take pressure off of Williams. Reagan as I said earlier should be thought of as a rookie due to lack of playing time last year.

[chopper]

He has logged the most ice out of any of the Dmen in the first 2 games without him Im damn sure the scores would of been worse in both games. He has no experienced defensemen to play with Harrison (42gp) Reagan 29gp) the rest are raw rookies, Hansen hasn't played defense since his bantam/midget years he has looked out of place on defense during preseason and again the last 2 games. He is the 1st Dman out there for any PK and last night he did an awful lot of killing penalties which does wear a guy out much faster.

All im saying is you are looking way to far into a +/- stat when we had zero push back, Wapple held us in the game in Brandon we didn't generate much offense in Brandon either just the score looked better. A +/- stat is more comparable when the team goals for and goals against is close in total numbers.

Also to throw out there his -2 in Brandon were not due to his play at all, he was the lone guy back on a 2on1 on Brandon's 3rd goal (where was the other Dman oh right Zborovskiy fell at the red line) the 4th goal was an empty netter that Brandon scored from the red line. Last night if I recall correctly Gabrielle's 2nd goal with 42secs left in the 2nd period I believe was off an icing call where we couldn't change. All these things don't come into factor with the terrible +/- stat... on that 2on1 goal that Brandon scored Williams couldn't of played it any better he forced the shooter to shoot which he scored on but still gets a minus for playing the play correctly, the empty netter he was the closest Dman on the guy to get rid of the puck he just happened to hit the empty net from center ice and still get a minus cause there was no goalie in net... see where im going with this.................

Williams was a -17 or something stupid like that during the first half of the year but with that said he finished the year at 0 so that means he was +17 in the second half when the games get tougher. You are very fast to jump all over him for his minus play but his plus play there is nothing there and this is why I hate the stat as its always so easy to pick out the negatives but with that said without breaking down each and every minus a player receives to truly see who's fault it is that resulted in the goal scored against the stat is a flaw and always will be a flaw.

That's bunch of garbage and I'm disappointed you don't see it. Your trying to say that every bad goal, mistake by someone else, every icing call, every shift change, every match up makes up an excuse for why a player has a bad +/- and you don't like that stat.

That's unfortunate because most coaches at most levels look at it as a very important stat. Do you really think Williams was the victim of every bad bounce during the first half of last season? Do you think he received every favourable bounce in the second half?

You conveniently forget that at home the home team can match up the lines they want, and the defensive pairings they want. That's why they look at as a stat for all situations. They don't break it down for the nuances of every goal. That's just unrealistic.

I suppose you think Williams -6 in last years playoffs was the worst of all d-men because he had every bad break go against him? He was -6 which was worse than Sinitsyn at -5. Burroughs and Zagraggen had everything go better for them and they end up with -2 .

Williams played "better" in the 2nd half last yr and that's why his +/- improved and got "better". It's all about how you play in all situations. He played poorly (along with others) in the playoffs and had a horrible -6. It wasn't about breaks or somebody else's fault.

There's a sign in Vegas that says "the stars might lie, but the numbers never do". If you like the guy just say so. But don't feed me the BS that stat isn't good because of something you don't like. Maybe they shouldn't keep score either.
Sheesh……..

[crashnbang]

Results of game were worse than I expected. Brandon is a very strong team and if you take undisciplined penalties, you will pay. Agree that Cole was skating well for us and even when down by 5 goals he was still finishing his checks and many guys weren't doing the same. Christoffer's game was undisciplined but you don't sit a guy like that, he knows what he needs to do going forward. And it's not like McVeigh had a choice whether or not to fight, obviously he isn't a tough guy. McVeigh's days are limited here if you ask me though. I doubt it will be considered, but Brady Reagan might have the most value on our back end when it comes to a trade (because he is 17 and pretty hyped up) so I would strongly consider moving him for a proven 18 year old defenseman right now who would play here as an 18,19 and 20 year old but that's easier said than done. In my mind we are building for a strong team next season and very strong in 2016-2017 if Steel is around as an 18 year old as we would have an incredibly strong 19 year old group then. Missing Burroughs and Klimchuck is huge right now, from a leadership standpoint and a calming factor. Brandon played a calm game where as we had a lot of panic in our game and the puck was like a hot potato, poor breakout passes etc, it'll get better. I'm not sure if sitting Kammerer means they've seen enough or if it's a last attempt wake up call. I think our current bubble guys are Hansen and McVeigh. Kammerer will get another look and Kroeker will be getting a good look real soon. Hunt hasn't looked very comfortable, hopefully he can find his game real soon.

[chopper]

Agreed with you Patsdude about Williams. I would blame him for the minus's in Brandon. You can look really bad in plus minus because of other players brutal plays, empty nets etc.

If your the one making the mistakes that cost the goals them that is a problem.
Burroughs coming back will take pressure off of Williams. Reagan as I said earlier should be thought of as a rookie due to lack of playing time last year.

Burroughs is our hands down best d-man and he will probably be worked to the point of exhaustion. I completely agree and have previously stated we need to add a couple rugged d-men. Bighat also aptly stated we need to find someone for Steel to play with.

Klimchuk's situation is still up in the air and none knows what it will end up as. Assuming he is not back they need to find somebody for Steel. He is about 30-40% of everything we have going forward. A talent like his can't be wasted as they are rare to come by.

When you have a young bunch of forwards you need some stability and toughness on the back end which we don't have. I hope they can re-arrange their defence to locate that type of player. Young forwards and a rather soft defence spells big problem.

[patsdude114]

That's bunch of garbage and I'm disappointed you don't see it. Your trying to say that every bad goal, mistake by someone else, every icing call, every shift change, every match up makes up an excuse for why a player has a bad +/- and you don't like that stat.

Did I say that no I did not every single goal that is scored is due to some defensive break down be it 1 player or a group of players and everyone gets a minus for it.

That's unfortunate because most coaches at most levels look at it as a very important stat. Do you really think Williams was the victim of every bad bounce during the first half of last season? Do you think he received every favourable bounce in the second half?

There is also lots of coaches out there that know its a flawed stat as it goes by how strong of a team you have.

You conveniently forget that at home the home team can match up the lines they want, and the defensive pairings they want. That's why they look at as a stat for all situations. They don't break it down for the nuances of every goal. That's just unrealistic.

I suppose you think Williams -6 in last years playoffs was the worst of all d-men because he had every bad break go against him? He was -6 which was worse than Sinitsyn at -5. Burroughs and Zagraggen had everything go better for them and they end up with -2 .

Yes at home you can match lines better did I forget that no I didn't you conveniently assumed that I did lmao

As for the playoffs comment like I said before its a team stat and the entire team played like a*s and not to mention how brutal MacAuley was, you can pick on guys all you want due to 1s +/- being worse then the other but keep in mind too that Burroughs and Zgraggen were on the ice a lot more with Chandler & Klimchuk then Williams and Sinitsyn was... the whole -1 difference is a simple being on the far side of the ice compared to being close to the bench to make a change, it happens every single game where 1 guy gets stuck out there alittle longer then the next just due to that factor alone.

Williams played "better" in the 2nd half last yr and that's why his +/- improved and got "better". It's all about how you play in all situations. He played poorly (along with others) in the playoffs and had a horrible -6. It wasn't about breaks or somebody else's fault.

There's a sign in Vegas that says "the stars might lie, but the numbers never do". If you like the guy just say so. But don't feed me the BS that stat isn't good because of something you don't like. Maybe they shouldn't keep score either.
Sheesh……..

Im not a big Williams fan but he does take a lot of heat being a local kid it happens all the time being a local kid playing on the hometown team. Your going far off extreme here chopper like come on your very last line is just you being frustrated I don't agree with you. Give your head a shake already that comment was childish and you know it. Just cause I don't agree with the stat cause there are flaws in it doesn't mean there are not guys out there like yourself who love the stat and basically live and die by it. Am I making childish comments towards you just cause I don't agree with your stance by it... no im not im at least putting reasons out there for me not agreeing with the stat and the flaw within the system.

Look at Brayden Point +/- stat of -27 now your telling me with his 91 pts he puts up it was his fault that he ends up with a -27 stat cause his entire team last year sucked balls? You put Point on a stronger team he is a plus player cause the team itself is stronger and he doesn't have to play every second shift cause a dead tired Point is still better then any 3rd or 4th liner MJ had last year. From how you are talking you would not want Point on your team cause of his -27 but yet his skills are top notch just on a crap team.

[chopper]

I agree with everything you said but I cut out this from your message cause we had this big stay at home type Dman in Schacher but we traded him for a useless 8th round pick. Sure he may of not moved the puck that well but that is why you have support from your D partner as well as the center down low. I just found it odd that we traded away our biggest Dman and we already lack size on the backend.

Anyways its 2 games into the season no need to hit the panic button yet as there is lots of hockey to be played but I am not changing my predictions on this team that we are a 8th placed team in the conference & even then may slip out of that (& this was made before they changed the playoff format which may save us if we can be better then MJ SAS & PA for 3rd spot lol)

I agree with the fact our back-end is a little undersized and the moving of Schacher surprised me. He may not have been the most physical guy but he took up space and was hard to move, and he did move people. Also giving him up for a bag of pucks….

With a young forward group there is an ever greater need to have a sturdy defence. Some thoughts have been put forward. As long as it doesn't impact our young guys let them have at it. Our strength has to be at defence and goaltending.

[patsdude114]

I agree with the fact our back-end is a little undersized and the moving of Schacher surprised me. He may not have been the most physical guy but he took up space and was hard to move, and he did move people. Also giving him up for a bag of pucks….

With a young forward group there is an ever greater need to have a sturdy defence. Some thoughts have been put forward. As long as it doesn't impact our young guys let them have at it. Our strength has to be at defence and goaltending.

I have no issues with this at all and fully agree that we need a big sturdy guy back there. Our goaltending is fine but they both need help defensively and right now that hasn't happened thru 1-6 on the backend

[chopper]

Did I say that no I did not every single goal that is scored is due to some defensive break down be it 1 player or a group of players and everyone gets a minus for it.



There is also lots of coaches out there that know its a flawed stat as it goes by how strong of a team you have.



Yes at home you can match lines better did I forget that no I didn't you conveniently assumed that I did lmao

As for the playoffs comment like I said before its a team stat and the entire team played like a*s and not to mention how brutal MacAuley was, you can pick on guys all you want due to 1s +/- being worse then the other but keep in mind too that Burroughs and Zgraggen were on the ice a lot more with Chandler & Klimchuk then Williams and Sinitsyn was... the whole -1 difference is a simple being on the far side of the ice compared to being close to the bench to make a change, it happens every single game where 1 guy gets stuck out there alittle longer then the next just due to that factor alone.



Im not a big Williams fan but he does take a lot of heat being a local kid it happens all the time being a local kid playing on the hometown team. Your going far off extreme here chopper like come on your very last line is just you being frustrated I don't agree with you. Give your head a shake already that comment was childish and you know it. Just cause I don't agree with the stat cause there are flaws in it doesn't mean there are not guys out there like yourself who love the stat and basically live and die by it. Am I making childish comments towards you just cause I don't agree with your stance by it... no im not im at least putting reasons out there for me not agreeing with the stat and the flaw within the system.

Look at Brayden Point +/- stat of -27 now your telling me with his 91 pts he puts up it was his fault that he ends up with a -27 stat cause his entire team last year sucked balls? You put Point on a stronger team he is a plus player cause the team itself is stronger and he doesn't have to play every second shift cause a dead tired Point is still better then any 3rd or 4th liner MJ had last year. From how you are talking you would not want Point on your team cause of his -27 but yet his skills are top notch just on a crap team.

What does Point have to do with any point? I don't think it's me who needs to shake my head. You've been defending this guy to the enth degree and then you say "Im not a big Williams fan" .That looks like a flip flop to me. Even when confronted with the playoff numbers you continue to justify the unjustifiable, reverting to excuses. My point was to show that Williams past numbers do not equate well with those of the other d-men he played with. If you want to confuse a facetious comment as being childish and articulate it as such, then you have a big problem. If you want to resort to name calling, you best not forget a blade cuts both ways. I don't care if you disagree with everything I say. It's a free country! Talk about hockey if you want but please leave character assassination out of it. It has no place in postings.