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Thread: 15-16 Season Discussion

  1. #11

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    Fair enough , the "Sutter System" might have sent some players to the NHL , but I agree with the post saying that the players perhaps hate playing this system so much that they give up on it. Although this team will obviously look a little different by the trade deadline , it is a very exciting group of players and when I saw them play against Kelowna the first time , I thought they beat the WHL champs by playing a similar style hockey to what makes Kelowna such an energetic team to watch. The Rebels used their skill and their speed that night and they looked as if they were enjoying themselves, yet Sutter wasn't happy with the way they played , he said that much in the postgame interview. The fact remains they scored 7 goals and smiled all the time.Brent is a very respected coach , but he certainly cracks a whip and when watching some of the other teams play , I see things that are absent on the Rebels bench. I see players enjoying the game , players who enjoy each other's company and players who are eager to go out every shift. Burke is currently top scorer in the league and he definitely wouldn't have been in that position on his old team. He even had trouble during practices and got banged on the boards not able to use his tremendous skill and vision. Gay's name often appears, he too looks like the player he was in Regina again , he is an asset to the Blades and will be a difference maker. Happy for both these players that they are doing well.
    Bleackley should never have been made captain as a 17 year old. It is not a smart thing to do on a junior hockey team where you have respected older players who have earned a C and who have spent years getting ready to lead their teams. Although Bleackley appears to be somewhat popular with the public , his team mates hardley ever stand up for him, there is probably a reason for that, Johnston will be good in this role. It is more important to have somebody who can keep the team together in the dressing room.
    On a different note , Spacek is a great asset to the Rebels , he has flair, skill and speed and gets the puck in the net through traffic. Best player at the moment. Good thing he doesn't speak a lot of English , perhaps that way his game won't change that much
    Nikoloshin is another bright light , two imports who will shake things up.
    Good luck to this team , it is still early and things can still turn around. The Rebels are balanced enough to be a huge force out there.
    Last edited by Newice14; 10-15-2015 at 08:52 AM. Reason: sp

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Newice14 View Post
    Bleackley should never have been made captain as a 17 year old.
    I agree 100%. You could see it in the older players that year that they were not happy about it and their play reflected it. I think we are going to get to see how much Bleackley wants the bye into the Memorial cup as unless he specifically asked for some of the pressure to be taken off, I can't see him being very happy about it to the point of wanting to be done with this franchise. You have to wonder what the Colorado brass must be thinking when their 1st round pick's coach doesn't think he is able to handle the pressures of being a whl player. Whatever happened to keeping things in the room? Without naming names, Sutter basically called Bleackley out in the post game show three games in a row, and then he gives an interview telling the world why he took the C away. No wonder this kid is under so much pressure. If he is getting rode this hard in the media I can only imagine the riding he is taking in the room.

    I know this is Sutter's business and he treats it as so, but at some point everybody needs to realize that these are a bunch of kids that just want to play hockey. If they are having fun and enjoying themselves out there, the effort and production will be there. I as well believe this is something that has been severely lacking in Rebels that last few years.

    Having said that, this team has the talent to be able to pull through this and be a top team in the Dub. They just got to get it going as if not for Zipp accidently shooting the puck over the glass, this is a five game loosing streak with potentially the toughest opposition yet this year coming up for game six. I am guessing there isn't to many cup contenders that had many stretches like that in their championship year.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    I agree 100%. You could see it in the older players that year that they were not happy about it and their play reflected it.
    I agree as well. Probably should have been Johnson or Doetzel or some other "all-in" player on the team.

    You have to wonder what the Colorado brass must be thinking when their 1st round pick's coach doesn't think he is able to handle the pressures of being a whl player.
    If they are any sort of a serious NHL team, they would be scouting their 1st rounder, and would quite likely agree with Sutter, based on his lack of effort.

    but at some point everybody needs to realize that these are a bunch of kids that just want to play hockey.
    This statement is always every bit adorable as it is ridiculous. If they want to just have fun and play hockey, then they shouldn't waste everyone's time by trying out in a top-tier Canadian junior league. There are recreational hockey leagues for players that just want to have fun and not have to put the hard work in. They are in the WHL with the hopes of attaining a pro contract, and with any luck fame and fortune. I think the scale tips for most of them at one point or another, and they find themselves playing out their eligibility for a future education. It has always been ironic to me, that it is often these players that have a better work ethic than a lot of the 'pro' prospects.

    Having said that, this team has the talent to be able to pull through this and be a top team in the Dub. They just got to get it going as if not for Zipp accidently shooting the puck over the glass, this is a five game loosing streak with potentially the toughest opposition yet this year coming up for game six. I am guessing there isn't to many cup contenders that had many stretches like that in their championship year.
    I think that aside from the Lethbridge game, they haven't been completely outworked or outplayed in a game this season. Just lost some games on some REALLY bad penalty killing and very average goaltending. I am sure they will make some moves before the deadline to improve their goaltending, scoring, and possibly even adding/replacing a defender.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newice14 View Post
    Nikoloshin is another bright light , two imports who will shake things up.
    Good luck to this team , it is still early and things can still turn around. The Rebels are balanced enough to be a huge force out there.
    Nikolishin is a great puck possession guy that has deceptive speed and some nice moves, and he has actually blocked a number of hard shots. However, he has also made a pile of ultra-soft cross-ice passes that have been easily picked off, and lead to a few goals against already. I think that despite being a small forward, he has also done a fantastic job on the point on the power play.

    Spacek has been just getting better with every game. He has gotten the puck off his stick in some pretty heavy traffic, that has caught a few goaltenders off guard. He isn't too shabby in his own end of the ice either.
    Last edited by SectionNDeserter; 10-15-2015 at 09:18 PM.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    Nikolishin is a great puck possession guy that has deceptive speed and some nice moves, and he has actually blocked a number of hard shots. However, he has also made a pile of ultra-soft cross-ice passes that have been easily picked off, and lead to a few goals against already.
    Don't worry, I am sure the "Sutter Style" of hockey is already cracking down on this to the point that he will be afraid before to long to make a cross ice pass, resulting in yet another offensive player failing to produce offensively.

    As for enjoying the game, what is there 2% of these kids that will actually be able to covert this experience into a hockey career? They leave their families and friends behind at the age of 16 and ride the bus all over Western Canada while trying to keep up with their education at a strange school. All well generating no income in the process. I think they are making enough sacrifices to pursue the dream. I see no reason that they shouldn't be getting some enjoyment out of the experience.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    This statement is always every bit adorable as it is ridiculous. If they want to just have fun and play hockey, then they shouldn't waste everyone's time by trying out in a top-tier Canadian junior league.
    This. Season tickets were $1200 a pop this year. Nobody is paying that because they want to see a bunch of kids just go out and have fun, win, lose, or draw.

    Also, this whole "Sutter hates offense" thing is just...come on guys. Bleackley became a first round pick playing for Brent Sutter, but now he is playing poorly because he plays for Brent Sutter? Fleury became a first rounder playing for Sutter, but last year he stunk it up because of Sutter? Sutter got Spacek and Nikolishin for a song, and they have about 30 points between them in 9 games, but hey, that's only in spite of Sutter (what, they should have 50)? This is ridiculous. So when a player develops into an NHL first rounder, Sutter had nothing to do with that, and when they play poorly (because of a lack of give a F's), it's because Sutter is a tyrant? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to objectively look at that rationale and say, "wait a minute."

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    This. Season tickets were $1200 a pop this year. Nobody is paying that because they want to see a bunch of kids just go out and have fun, win, lose, or draw.

    Also, this whole "Sutter hates offense" thing is just...come on guys. Bleackley became a first round pick playing for Brent Sutter, but now he is playing poorly because he plays for Brent Sutter? Fleury became a first rounder playing for Sutter, but last year he stunk it up because of Sutter? Sutter got Spacek and Nikolishin for a song, and they have about 30 points between them in 9 games, but hey, that's only in spite of Sutter (what, they should have 50)? This is ridiculous. So when a player develops into an NHL first rounder, Sutter had nothing to do with that, and when they play poorly (because of a lack of give a F's), it's because Sutter is a tyrant? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to objectively look at that rationale and say, "wait a minute."
    I am paying $1200 a pop to go out for an evening of entertainment. I don't think there was one person that left the Kelowna game that wasn't entertained and didn't think they got their money's worth out of the game. And yet, as was already stated, coaching staff not happy with how they played and we need to change things. They dominated Swift Current, probably had puck possesion for 75 - 80% of the game and yet the next pregame show O'Rouke tells Cam Moon they weren't satisified with how they played. What???

    Do you honestly believe these kids aren't coming in with some pedigree before they get to Sutter that is helping them become first round picks? There is a reason they are first and second round bantam picks. Do you think Phaneuf and The Nuge wouldn't be playing in the nhl if they had played for a different whl team than the Rebels?

    I am not saying it is supposed to be all partys and smiles.

    The discussion here is why are we consistantly seeing, year after year, players that are expected to perform and improve underachieving? The list is endless but headlined the last few years by Dumba, Fleury and Bleackley. This blog is for discussion. I would love to hear what you think the reasons are if you don't think it is the system that they are playing under failing them.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    The discussion here is why are we consistantly seeing, year after year, players that are expected to perform and improve underachieving? The list is endless but headlined the last few years by Dumba, Fleury and Bleackley. This blog is for discussion. I would love to hear what you think the reasons are if you don't think it is the system that they are playing under failing them.
    I think it is due to the sense of entitlement that much of their generation has. Fleury, Bleackley etc. didn't have a poor season last year because of some stifling defensive system that Sutter employs, but rather because they are not trying anywhere near as hard as they were during their draft year.

    As Calcheyup said, it was the exact same system that allowed them to be drafted in the first round of the NHL entry draft. Good pedigree or not, they put up good offensive and defensive numbers, backchecked hard, made fewer mistakes, and just looked a step ahead of their teammates on the ice. I think that much like Dumba, getting drafted in the first round was a huge accomplishment, and a life goal for these players, and once they accomplished that, they took their foot off the gas(at the WHL level). I think they all believed in their hearts that they were done with curfew, done with riding the bus, done with the WHL. It reflects in their play.

    I don't think there was one person that left the Kelowna game that wasn't entertained and didn't think they got their money's worth out of the game.
    Ironic that you mention this game, because it was also the last game before Fleury returned to the lineup. I think that Fleury's individual play is already considerably better upon returning than he was last season (he hasn't scored on himself yet), but the team hasn't looked all that cohesive since his return.

  9. #19

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    http://bsndenver.com/colorado-avalan...-of-captaincy/

    Here's the Avs writeup on the Bleackley situation and has some audio from Sutter embedded, for those interested and may not have heard it.

  10. #20

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    I have seen it myself with some of the young people we have hired. There is a sense of entitlement in some of them that they think the world owes them a living and don't think they have to work for it. So I can see this playing into part of it for sure, but it still doesn't explain why a guy like Conner Gay performed in Regina, didn't perform in Red Deer and now is performing in Saskatoon. Same as Pawlenchuk, last year he was playing to get drafted so should have had more than enough incentive to give it his all every night. Yet, he struggled severely in the system. He is playing a bit better this year and has 5 points in 9 games, but look who he is playing with. The two imports that are putting up all the points so he should have more than 5 just from touching the puck every once in a while before the imports do something special with it.

    We have seen it season after season where once the slide starts, it takes them 8, 10 or 12 games to get it going again. During these stretches it is the whole team struggling and Sutter is giving his interviews after the game scratching his head saying we aren't playing the way we need to play. If the players believed in the system they are playing it shouldn't be so hard and take so long to get them back on track.

    I dont' know, but I sure hope 20 games from now this discussion is done with and we are all excited for what lies ahead as opposed to Sutter mortgaging the future of the club to try to get a team that has a chance of competing in the Memorial Cup.

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