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Thread: 15-16 Season Discussion

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    but it still doesn't explain why a guy like Conner Gay performed in Regina, didn't perform in Red Deer and now is performing in Saskatoon.
    He may have disliked Sutter personally, or other members of the coaching staff or even the players. He may have also been mentally unprepared for getting traded. He certainly didn't get anywhere near the same amount of ice time that he did in Regina, especially towards the end of his time in Red Deer.

    Same as Pawlenchuk, last year he was playing to get drafted so should have had more than enough incentive to give it his all every night. Yet, he struggled severely in the system.
    You clearly didn't watch him too carefully last season if you are under the impression that he struggled severely. He is second only to Wyatt Johnson as far as defensive abilities on the team, and just goes full tilt every shift. He is a solid two-way forward--not some sort of a sniper. His real problem last season was not the fact that he wasn't getting scoring chances, as he got tons of them, but that he shot the puck directly at the goalie's chest every time, or hit the post. Had he buried half of the shots he took like that, he would have had 25 goals. I personally was shocked that nobody snagged him with a late round pick, just based on his speed, work ethic and backchecking.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    You clearly didn't watch him too carefully last season if you are under the impression that he struggled severely. He is second only to Wyatt Johnson as far as defensive abilities on the team, and just goes full tilt every shift. He is a solid two-way forward--not some sort of a sniper. His real problem last season was not the fact that he wasn't getting scoring chances, as he got tons of them, but that he shot the puck directly at the goalie's chest every time, or hit the post. Had he buried half of the shots he took like that, he would have had 25 goals. I personally was shocked that nobody snagged him with a late round pick, just based on his speed, work ethic and backchecking.
    He was a -9 player whose offensive production dropped off from the previous year. He was a projected 4th or 5th round pick that went thru the draft without getting picked. He was a player that started the season playing on the first two lines that ended up playing a good portion of it on the third and fourth lines. In fact, I am sure there was an entire Advocate article last year devoted to him and his sturggles. In a year where he was supposed to take a significant step forwards, he went backwards. I dont know what your definition of struggling is, but that meets mine.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    He was a -9 player whose offensive production dropped off from the previous year.
    A player doesn't really have a great deal of control over his +/-, it is really more a product of his linemates and the team around him. As I said before, he is a player with a focus on strong two-way play. His offensive numbers are mostly irrelevant based on the type of player he is, and role he was being used in.

    He was a projected 4th or 5th round pick that went thru the draft without getting picked.
    So was Mario Grman. I think the other import that didn't even make the team was projected as a second/third round pick. That should give you a pretty decent idea of the amount of research and effort that the people who make those late round projections put into it.

    I dont know what your definition of struggling is, but that meets mine.
    I'm not saying that he didn't struggle at times. He certainly could have developed more last season, but it certainly wasn't as 'severe' as you make it out to be.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    I have seen it myself with some of the young people we have hired. There is a sense of entitlement in some of them that they think the world owes them a living and don't think they have to work for it. So I can see this playing into part of it for sure, but it still doesn't explain why a guy like Conner Gay performed in Regina, didn't perform in Red Deer and now is performing in Saskatoon. Same as Pawlenchuk, last year he was playing to get drafted so should have had more than enough incentive to give it his all every night. Yet, he struggled severely in the system. .
    Firstly (until I'm blue in the face), if Conner Gay was such a hot commodity, why were the Rebels able to get a 1st, 2nd, and Gay for Leschysyn. CLEARLY, Gay was not the centerpiece of that deal, which speaks to what Regina and Red Deer both thought of the player. Further, why were the last place Saskatoon Blades the only team interested in paying a 3rd round pick for him this summer, the standard price for a 20. At the end of the day, it is very possible to put up a bunch of points, be a floater, thrive with low expectations, and be decent junior hockey player with no pro potential. That is where he doesn't fit the Red Deer mold IMO.

    And when it comes to the "system", please don't throw that term around unless you know what exactly the system is. I am sure SND would agree, the system calls for puck possession, speed, size on the forecheck, and unrelenting commitment to playing in your own zone. If the last part bothers you, and is a rationale for why players "don't succeed", then I suggest never applying for a job in the NHL bc that is EXACTLY the player they want in pro. Don't kid yourself, Sutter has said it time and time again, the organization wants to win games, however they want to prepare players for pro hockey or other avenues first and foremost. There are aplenty of organizations in this league that develop players to pump out large offensive numbers in jr, yet those players never play anything higher than the ECHL.

    The team is 7-4, have scored almost 45 goals, and have been outshot in 1 game so far. Fine by me.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    He was a -9 player whose offensive production dropped off from the previous year. He was a projected 4th or 5th round pick that went thru the draft without getting picked. He was a player that started the season playing on the first two lines that ended up playing a good portion of it on the third and fourth lines. In fact, I am sure there was an entire Advocate article last year devoted to him and his sturggles. In a year where he was supposed to take a significant step forwards, he went backwards. I dont know what your definition of struggling is, but that meets mine.
    so naturally its Sutter and the system? How did it fail him? I saw a player who worked hard but as SND said struggled with finishing. He has in fact had an incredible start to the season, playing with the euros and being a large body to create space and help the forecheck. 5 goals in 11 games would put him on pace for 30 goals.....

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by hockey4 View Post
    so naturally its Sutter and the system? How did it fail him? I saw a player who worked hard but as SND said struggled with finishing. He has in fact had an incredible start to the season, playing with the euros and being a large body to create space and help the forecheck. 5 goals in 11 games would put him on pace for 30 goals.....
    You have a guy who has 5 points, playing with a two guys who each have 17. You could put anyone out there with the two imports and they would have 5+ points. He is an important part of a penalty kill that has looked brutal so far. Hardly an incredible start to the season.

    Red Deer wins 6-4 in Vancouver. One of Vancouver's goals is on the power play and Pawly is a -3 on the night. I am sorry but when he stops having games like that, then you can tell me that he is the second best defensive player on the team.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    Red Deer wins 6-4 in Vancouver. One of Vancouver's goals is on the power play and Pawly is a -3 on the night. I am sorry but when he stops having games like that, then you can tell me that he is the second best defensive player on the team.
    Do you seriously know this little about hockey? Plus/minus is not an individual stat... Pawlenchuk was -3 because of three different completely crap individual defensive efforts by Colton Bobyk. From what I have seen last season, and this season so far, a LOT of players that are on the ice with Bobyk are not going to have the greatest plus/minus rating, because he seems to have no idea what he is supposed to be doing when the puck isn't on his stick.

  8. #28

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    So was that the fourth or fifth game Toth has been yanked from already this year? It is the second time he's been pulled after the first goal of the game. I've got a hard time believing Sutter feels like this is the guy they're going to win the Memorial Cup with, and am wondering how long he's going to roll like this before he pulls the trigger on a move.

  9. #29
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    I think that Toth is the sort of goaltender that isn't able to consistently motivate himself for games if he isn't being pushed by his goaltending partner. Trevor Martin came into this season as a 19 year old backup goaltender in the SJHL, and was terrifying to watch in exhibition or any of his appearances--not really much of a threat to Toth's status on the team. I have to say that though he only saw a dozen or so shots last night, Martin made some big stops and even looked far more poised than he did in previous contests.

    I think that Sutter came into the season with a pretty solid plan for how he wanted the team to look for the Memorial Cup, but I don't think that plan is working out in goal so far, and he is running out of time. Looking around the league, I really don't see any goaltenders that would be both available, and much of an upgrade on what they currently have, so he may have to just work with what he has got.

  10. #30

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    I wonder if Portland continues to struggle if you couldn't put a package together for Bittner and Adin Hill. Other than that, it is Wapple out of Regina or Hoflin out of Kootney if they are willing to take on a 20 year old tender. Not sure how much of an upgrade Hoflin would be either. I was thinking Whistle early, but now that Kelowna is near the top of the West he will probably carry a big price tag.

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