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Thread: News Flash: Management has learned nothing from the past several years of futility

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeszarosFan View Post
    So they put the players desires ahead of the teams needs? If they keep doing that this team will be going nowhere fast. Which sounds exactly like what's been happening for the past four years.
    If you think the Giants are the only team to do this you are being naive. A lot of teams are willing to comply especially when a certain player does everything you ask of him. Obviously it happens more at this level than the pros. And that is understandable. As a fan it does kind of suck as you simply lose an asset once they turn pro when you can technically get something of value in return. But I see the other side as well.

  2. #12
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    Benson scratched and Foster captain? Is that a WHL site mistake or Bonner putting together a package for Point?? They said he has the go ahead to make a run...lol.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fight Guy View Post
    Benson scratched and Foster captain? Is that a WHL site mistake or Bonner putting together a package for Point?? They said he has the go ahead to make a run...lol.
    Reading into it way too much. Benson is injured and Foster is wearing the "C" in the meantime. Although he should be wearing the "C" full time in my opinion. He was my #1 choice heading into the season. The fact he was hurt made it easy to pick someone else. But I think it was a mistake making Benson captain from the start.

  4. #14
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    I have to say to realistically think that we can A) make the playoffs and B) compete is a big stretch.

    This team seems to believe that they are always buyers (usually of the marginal variety by trading a few later round picks for spare parts and the occasional game breaker), but the reality remains that they have hurt their team by not trading assets when they had the chance.

    Recognizing that playing a minimum two playoff games is the biggest payoff for holding onto marketable assets you are going to lose. It makes no sense. So we make the playoffs (maybe and that's a big maybe) yet we hold on to assets only to lose them the next year and we are no better off than we were 6 years ago. We have had some young guys step it up and for all of you who thought we should have bailed on Ronning, eat crow - but that's another discussion. Anyway - we do not have a real contending team, and we won't have a contending team next year if we perpetuate the mediocrity. We do not have a hope in a hell of going deep in the playoffs, if we even squeak in there. So why would we mortgage the future and not deal assets now for a real chance at actually developing a true contender down the road?

    We have been bottom-feeding for going on six years now and it has got to stop. Portland and Tri-City are slumping this season and in moderate rebuild mode and have indicated that they are SELLERS - we are below them in the standings, have had a mini-run of games and we fancy ourselves contenders?? Seriously?

    Scrunt's numbers don't lie. The chance that we will make the playoffs is marginal at best, regardless who we bring into the line-up. Make a deal for POINT? are you f*cking kidding me? Seriously is this franchise so short-sighted and tunnel visioned that they still, after all of these years of mediocrity, don't recognize that they should, no MUST be leaning towards selling over buying? We are not and will not be true contenders this season, we do not have the depth and we need to restock the stable with young talented players and the only way you do that is high picks and trading assets for bonafide top prospects.

    I do not agree that we have a more skilled team than we have in the past or that we are likely to make the playoffs. If we deal picks and prospects, be prepared for another three years of woeful mediocrity. I for one can't handle any more of this delusional behaviour from the Giants braintrust. It's time for them to really understand what level of team they are and recognize the benefits of dealing from strength. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. By definition the Giants management and ownership are clearly insane.

    I have to say I surprised at few of you veterans on the boards who don't seem to realize that we need to do something different. We need to be able to get good assets for players who might get us into the playoffs, but won't get us deep and would be far more valuable as trading assets as opposed to keeping assets. A few points out of a playoff spot at this time of the year is a clear indication that we have to deal players who won't be back or who could get us a great return and no I don't mean Benson - he and Ronning are the building blocks.

    Dealing players like Popoff, Cox, and maybe some of the 19 year olds who might be in the AHL next season improves the team for next year and for years to come. That's how this particular game works. You have great years and then rebuild years. The current management has delayed our rebuild for 3 or 4 years now and it is time to do something different.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondo View Post
    I have to say to realistically think that we can A) make the playoffs and B) compete is a big stretch.
    The first part isn't a stretch at all. Take a look at the standings. It's not like there is a huge gap between the last playoff spot and the worst record in the conference. If the Giants win some of these divisional games (which they have recently, against Victoria and Prince George) making up ground won't be that difficult. That being said they can't lose to a team like Edmonton last night. I know they are down two of their best players but they have to win games like that if they hope to make it. As for part B I agree, they aren't going to contend. But making the playoffs isn't far-fetched at all as ridiculous as it seems given they are technically a last place team. They can make the playoffs but that's probably their best hope. Making it for round one and getting knocked out by a team like Kelowna. Do I think it's worth pushing for the playoffs to be knocked out? Not necessarily. But at the same time I'm not convinced they would be able to get huge return for any of their older players. The teams willing to spend big have already made their splashes and a couple extra bantam picks don't outweigh the benefit of keeping some of the skilled players already on the roster. The Giants have loaded up on bantam picks over the past few years. And given their track record drafting, I'd rather keep the established players rather than gamble on another potential bust.

  6. #16

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    I think that there is another part to the making the playoffs, and management/ownership has eluded to this several times over the years - the belief that for the returning players it gives them some much needed experience. I too believe this but certainly not how it appears to be applied in this organization. I think for the mere toe dipping experience to get soundly blown out of the water may gain some experience it is by far nowhere near enough to taking a couple current assets and turning them into to future assets. In my lame opinion for the experience to be justified they have to at least be competitors for a round and not just a hurdle for the other team, and preferably competitors with a chance of winning the first round.

    The year after year repetition must be taxing on being able to have and maintain a cohesive ownership group. I wonder how much of a by has Toigo received with Howe's health and Quinn's demise. Ya gotta think Quinn woulda been all over them for the last season let alone to the same old again this season. At least we seem to have a coach that seems to be maintaining some sort of status quo for longer than a week.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucic View Post
    The first part isn't a stretch at all. Take a look at the standings. It's not like there is a huge gap between the last playoff spot and the worst record in the conference. If the Giants win some of these divisional games (which they have recently, against Victoria and Prince George) making up ground won't be that difficult. That being said they can't lose to a team like Edmonton last night. I know they are down two of their best players but they have to win games like that if they hope to make it. As for part B I agree, they aren't going to contend. But making the playoffs isn't far-fetched at all as ridiculous as it seems given they are technically a last place team. They can make the playoffs but that's probably their best hope. Making it for round one and getting knocked out by a team like Kelowna. Do I think it's worth pushing for the playoffs to be knocked out? Not necessarily. But at the same time I'm not convinced they would be able to get huge return for any of their older players. The teams willing to spend big have already made their splashes and a couple extra bantam picks don't outweigh the benefit of keeping some of the skilled players already on the roster. The Giants have loaded up on bantam picks over the past few years. And given their track record drafting, I'd rather keep the established players rather than gamble on another potential bust.
    Well scouting not-withstanding - because I agree entirely that we have historically squandered picks badly - if we can't get real value for our OA players then fine, but we cannot afford to trade away any future if we hope to grow from this year. I sincerely hope that Bonner's Dad is gone at the end of this year and the uber-useless Ripplinger as we need not only better scouting/recruiting, but much better player development and the ability to create different relationships with other agents as the contacts we have don't seem to be helping us at all, esp when it comes to euros.

    Looking at the teams we are facing in the latter half of the season there are a few softies, but mostly our games are against teams who should be able to beat us, no matter how well Kubic plays. The problem I see Lucic is that we keep playing the same script over and over again and we just aren't getting any better - then we deal a true prospect like Stukel for 19 yr olds who probably won't be back next year.

    Besides - if we let the young guys play, deal assets for which we can get something substantial and end up just out the playoffs, our drafting position improves - sadly our drafting is too suspect these days to have much faith in them picking the right guys. The team has created this problem. I still don't see how the numbers work out in the end. Two home playoff games won't add a whole lot of 'playoff experience' for the young guys and will actually hurt the future of the team. It would also be nice to turn our assets into young players with potential who could step in now and next season. We will have to play about .750 hockey for the rest of the year to make the playoffs, .500 won't cut it - also those we are chasing have been upping their games as well.

    The reality is that every other team in the league it seems that find themselves moldering at the bottom of their league come trade deadline time are thinking of being sellers first, but the Giants have spent the last several years in that position and every year have been marginal buyers to the team's detriment. We get a minor boost, that ends up blowing up in our faces as assets depart without contributing to the future of the team.

    I felt one of the best moves we made in recent years was the deal we made for Cunningham, 1st round pick, plus players, plus assets. I was hoping similar for Cox this season, but if he's currently damaged goods we might not be able to get teams to bite. Sadly Popoff hasn't been as strong as I had hoped this season so his value is diminished.

  8. #18
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    The Vancouver Giants announced on Friday that the hockey club has acquired 1997-born defenseman Tyler Brown, 1999-born blue liner Marcus Kichton and a second round pick in the 2017 WHL Bantam Draft from the Moose Jaw Warriors in exchange for 1996-born defenseman Josh Thrower and a fifth round pick in 2017.
    http://www.vancouvergiants.com/artic...with-moose-jaw

    While I don't know anything about the players we got, I'm very happy with the direction of this trade!

    Getting a 16 and and 18 year old plus a second rounder is exactly what the Giants should be doing! I won't miss Thrower and the team got younger plus a decent draft pick (even if it is 2017).
    The only good thunderstick is one shoved up a cowbell.

  9. #19
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    Funny - I just read this and thought the same thing. Thrower was never a favourite of mine regardless, but two for one and getting younger - hell yeah! I wonder how involved Molleken is in some of these deals? Brown is also 6'2" 191lbs -- I like that - hopefully he's a stay at home hard to play against defenseman
    Last edited by dondo; 01-08-2016 at 08:27 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dondo View Post
    Looking at the teams we are facing in the latter half of the season there are a few softies, but mostly our games are against teams who should be able to beat us, no matter how well Kubic plays. The problem I see Lucic is that we keep playing the same script over and over again and we just aren't getting any better - then we deal a true prospect like Stukel for 19 yr olds who probably won't be back next year.
    Neither Lang or Thomas are signed so it's too early to predict what will happen there. There isn't a strong group of 96 born players in the league. The Giants actually have several good candidates to return. That could also fetch them a decent haul in a future deal with another team. While I wasn't necessarily thrilled with moving Stukel at the same time I think that trade has been a blessing in disguise. It got rid of Houck (both Houck and Stukel were invisible tonight, BTW), cleared up the goaltender jam (Porter got pulled tonight while Kubic shined) and I think Thomas and Lang have been two of the better Giants this season. Both had strong games tonight too against their former team unlike Houck, Stukel and Porter. Of course Wapple was supposed to be the starter so I can't say that trade alone helped Kubic emerge as a starting caliber goalie but it helped get the ball rolling. Remember Stukel was unable to stay healthy and there is no guarantee that will change in time. He is putting up great numbers no doubt but both teams have benefited from that move, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by dondo
    I felt one of the best moves we made in recent years was the deal we made for Cunningham, 1st round pick, plus players, plus assets. I was hoping similar for Cox this season, but if he's currently damaged goods we might not be able to get teams to bite. Sadly Popoff hasn't been as strong as I had hoped this season so his value is diminished.
    I agree on the Cunningham deal. I don't think the Giants would be able to fetch that type of return for Cox though. Different year different asking prices. I agree on Popoff. In fact I would really try to move him by Sunday. Cole Sanford has asked for a trade from the Tigers. It would make sense to reunite him with Cox. I would happily dump Popoff and replace him with Sanford if possible. But there are a handful of playoff teams that could use an upgrade too so I'm sure plenty of GM's will be all over that.

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