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Thread: 16 -17 Season Discussion

  1. #111

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    Let's be real here, this trade was Mahura for two first round picks, a 16 year old former 1st round pick, and Lane Zablocki, who has 25 points in 32 games. Jeff de Wit may go to Regina and be a really good player for them, but it was crystal clear it wasn't happening for him in Red Deer. I wish him the best and it would be awesome if he elevated his game and tapped some more of his potential, but losing him, really, isn't much of a blow for Red Deer the way he was playing. Zablocki is the same age, and has proven himself in this league as a solid player. Mahura is not the guy who I thought would be moving on, but if you're Sutter you simply cannot say no to that deal, in my opinion.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDKrebel View Post
    Well Red Deer finally made a splash before the trade deadline. I thought we would trade de Wit but not Mahura.
    A few games back, after watching Mahura be (as he usually is) ridiculously out of position and creating a breakaway for the other team for the second time in about ten minutes, I commented to someone that I wouldn't be totally heartbroken if they traded him. He is a great offensive talent, and can carry the puck very well, but it is clear that somewhere along the way, he didn't learn anything about playing defense. It is a shame that he missed that entire season, because in hindsight, I think he could have really used that season to convert to forward. I hope that Brown is really good at stopping breakaways...

    *gets up on soapbox*

    It used to be that a defenseman had to come into the league and ease their way in, learning how to play the defensive side of the game at that level before they ever thought about the offensive side of the game. In the past ten years or so, it seems that there is at least one defenseman on most WHL teams that is little more than a highly skilled forward that has been placed on the back end to generate offense, and creates nearly as many offensive chances for the other team as they do for their own team. I can't really think of too many things that ruin a game for me than when one of these players become too big of a part of a team. What is really shocking to me, is just how much a defense-first coach like Brent Sutter has embraced this new breed of defenseman, as he seems to have had one on his team every year for the last decade or so.

    I think one of them would depend on Mahura returning to Regina next year which is pretty much a given.
    He will play in this league as an overage player, and he will likely be a solid overage player. He is going to have to get about 1000% better at playing defense in the next two seasons and change, if he is going to have any hope of playing at the professional level.

    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup
    Let's be real here, this trade was Mahura for two first round picks, a 16 year old former 1st round pick, and Lane Zablocki, who has 25 points in 32 games. Jeff de Wit may go to Regina and be a really good player for them, but it was crystal clear it wasn't happening for him in Red Deer.
    The key to this trade I think, is just how well Jeff de Wit played in the playoffs against Regina last season. The Jeff de Wit that they saw in that series is not the player that he has been this season, or any other point in his career. He was motivated, and physical and made stuff happen out there. I think that he can become that player again now that he will be away from home, and all of the distractions that come with it, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became the better player of the two.

    Mahura is not the guy who I thought would be moving on, but if you're Sutter you simply cannot say no to that deal, in my opinion.
    I can't imagine any way that Barteaux couldn't be better defensively than Mahura, and if they want to sacrifice defense for offense, they can always stick Spacek or Hagel on the point on the powerplay to replace Mahura's production there.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    I can't imagine any way that Barteaux couldn't be better defensively than Mahura, and if they want to sacrifice defense for offense, they can always stick Spacek or Hagel on the point on the powerplay to replace Mahura's production there.
    I can see putting Spacek on the point during a powerplay but not Hagel. He doesnít have the skill of Kris Versteeg or Ty Morris. At Least in Red Deer Minor Hockey they are teaching offense first in Minor hockey for defensemen coming up. If you canít create offense you will not be playing ďAĒ calibre hockey and thatís coming from the parents. I donít agree with this but that is just the way it is. That comes straight from the head of Red Deer minor hockey. They figure they can teach them defense later.

  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by calcheyup View Post
    Let's be real here, this trade was Mahura for two first round picks, a 16 year old former 1st round pick, and Lane Zablocki, who has 25 points in 32 games. Jeff de Wit may go to Regina and be a really good player for them, but it was crystal clear it wasn't happening for him in Red Deer. I wish him the best and it would be awesome if he elevated his game and tapped some more of his potential, but losing him, really, isn't much of a blow for Red Deer the way he was playing. Zablocki is the same age, and has proven himself in this league as a solid player. Mahura is not the guy who I thought would be moving on, but if you're Sutter you simply cannot say no to that deal, in my opinion.
    Let's face it, Sutter handed Regina their butt on this trade. If Zablocki was de Wit tonight, I would have said it was one of de Wit's best games of the season. All the talk on the Regina Blog is that they needed a guy with more size. That is fine, but if you don't use your size to create things, it doesn't matter how big you are. Anybody who thought de Wit was using his size to generate things for himself and his line mates must have thought de Wit wore #25. Good luck to him in Regina and maybe he turns into something under a different system but right from draft day a lot of us on here didn't know if he was worthy of the first round pick and I am still wondering.
    Mahura is a good player but he is not close to worthy of three first round picks. I realize the first rounders are probably going to close to the bottom of the first round but even so, way to much to give up for Mahura.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    Let's face it, Sutter handed Regina their butt on this trade. If Zablocki was de Wit tonight, I would have said it was one of de Wit's best games of the season. All the talk on the Regina Blog is that they needed a guy with more size. That is fine, but if you don't use your size to create things, it doesn't matter how big you are.
    I think that being in a different system, as well as being away from the distractions of his home town will do de Wit a world of good. I personally believe that he will end up making more of an impact for Regina than the one-dimensional defenseman that was traded with him will. I don't think that Sutter handed Regina their butt on this trade, for no other reason than both players that he traded will be pretty good overage players in this league two seasons from now.

    I think the trade that Sutter did hand someone their butt on, is the Strand for Schuldhaus trade. Schuldhaus has been absolutely solid defensively, and has stepped up and absolutely destroyed some guys with open ice hits in the neutral zone. And unlike Strand, he competes in every game that he is in. With those two trades, the Rebel defense got even younger, but overall is stronger than it was with Strand and Mahura.

  6. #116

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    We all knew this was going to be an up and down year, but...come on boys, have a little pride. Pumped by Calgary. Losing to PA on home ice, after barely squeaking by them last week and dropping one to Stoon. Bombed out the building by the Oil Kings. Narrowly getting past the Giants. They're in the third playoff spot in the division, but they wouldn't be in any other division (or even close). It's a reflection on how bad some of the hockey being played in the Central is this year more than anything. Nobody was expecting this club to be world beaters, but when Sutter didn't sell the farm at the deadline to me that served as an indication that he figures this team can make a little noise this year. I'm really not sure where he got that impression, because besides the early season winning streak, there hasn't been a whole lot to be excited about (for this season anyway). Dumping games to an 8-win team on home ice in January, just wow. That's terrible. This isn't a juggernaut club but there are enough pieces there that Ls to the Prince Alberts and the Kootenays of the league are unacceptable. I don't think it's outrageous to be disappointed that they can't beat those teams on a regular basis.

  7. #117
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    I knew that they were going to have a tough time bouncing back from that extremely soft first goal last night. When you spot any team in this league a goal (even one that has 8 wins) that early, it is a tough road back. It is going to be really interesting to see what goaltender ends up being the starter next season. As bad as Petersen is, he seems to have the inside track on that job right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    I knew that they were going to have a tough time bouncing back from that extremely soft first goal last night. When you spot any team in this league a goal (even one that has 8 wins) that early, it is a tough road back. It is going to be really interesting to see what goaltender ends up being the starter next season. As bad as Petersen is, he seems to have the inside track on that job right now.
    I agree that 1st goal was weak but Alexeyev allowed too much gap and give a easy shot. Alexeyev roll has increased since Mahura left and he can't handle it. He was riding on Josh's coat tails while he was here. Having Alex running the 1st pp is borderline at best. 1st of all Bobyk is your shooter so he should be the one getting set up not Alex. Also Alex handles the puck way too much on the pp and wastes time and does nothing with it. I know Sutter must think he's the next one but let's get results now. Another thing hard to believe Sutter allows the 1st pp unit take the whole 2 mins without a change.

    The effort was there last night, zero finish, poor PP, poor PK, questionable coaching and a couple bad penalties resulted in a lose to the worst record in the league. Although PA is better than their record shows.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelobserver View Post
    I agree that 1st goal was weak but Alexeyev allowed too much gap and give a easy shot.
    You should probably go back and watch it again. Alexeyev is the ONLY defenseman in the play, as Bobyk was off somewhere else doing whatever. Alexeyev put himself between the puck carrier and the other attacking forward (who was quickly covered by I believe Spacek), and Petersen comitted and squared himself to the shooter, waited, then let the weak wristshot past him. That goal just let the air out of the team, and was easily the turning point of the entire game.

    Alexeyev roll has increased since Mahura left and he can't handle it. He was riding on Josh's coat tails while he was here.
    If by 'riding his coattails' are you talking about him constantly having to try to break up all the two-on-ones and breakaways that Mahura was creating for the other team? Or was it when mediocre WHL players were routinely big-leaguing Mahura one-on-one? I can't even begin to explain what is wrong with what you just said... Sadly, Alexeyev, at sixteen years of age, has been by far the Rebel's best all around defenseman this season, though I am optimistic after watching a few games from Barteaux that he could develop into something.

    Having Alex running the 1st pp is borderline at best. 1st of all Bobyk is your shooter so he should be the one getting set up not Alex.
    Unfortunately everyone else in the league is aware this grand strategy too, so if they aren't distributing the shots at all between the defensemen, then they aren't goin to be getting any shots through whatsoever.

    Another thing hard to believe Sutter allows the 1st pp unit take the whole 2 mins without a change.
    He had a few other pairings out there last night as well, but when the forwards change up, often the defensive pairings just stay out there the full two minutes. He seems to have abandoned his affinity for sticking his #3 defenseman and a forward out for the second half of the powerplay.

    The effort was there last night, zero finish, poor PP, poor PK,
    I thought that with the exception of the final one, the PK looked effective, and the power play was fine. They easily gained the zone on the PP, moved the puck around and got some quality shots. Unfortunately PA's goaltender played well, and a number of the really good shots through a screen went off of legs and wide.

  10. #120

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    Here's the thing though (and this is hypothetical, not editorializing on Alexeyev's play): If the Rebels are losing games through the growing pains of promising youngsters, I can live with that. That's part of junior hockey. These guys need to learn to play at this level some time, and as they do, mistakes are going to be made. I get that, and it's part of the process. But a couple things - first, the fact of the matter is, there's enough experience and talent on this team that they shouldn't be losing to Kootenay (twice!) or PA, even if their young guys are stumbling a bit.

    Secondly, and more important, that's not really what sounds like is happening. They are losing games due to things like (veterans!) taking stupid, horribly timed penalties. Young guys making mistakes is inevitable. Older guys taking selfish penalties isn't, or shouldn't be. Once again, there seems to be a noted lack of "buy-in," at least to hear Sutter tell it, among the veterans. How the hell is this happening every single year? The last Rebels club I remember where this wasn't a problem was when Sutter relieved Wallin partway through the year and rooted out the guys he felt were hurting the locker room. I believe that team finished 4th in the conference and if you go back and look at the roster, they definitely overachieved in that regard. There has been a large variance in the talent level of the teams since then, but one factor that seems to be consistent is that the older guys either don't get it, or don't want to get it.
    Last edited by calcheyup; 01-21-2017 at 04:25 PM.

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