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Thread: 16 -17 Season Discussion

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    Lamb, Jerome, Cutler, Q. Martin, Bains, Alexeyev, Sakowich, Sass and probably Herauf. Nine rookies that for now are all on the roster, and are taking regular shifts. They are down to 24 skaters now, so realistically at least one or two of them is going home. If they reduce to 7, that is still a THIRD of the entire roster that is made up of rookies. It is really hard to tell if you are being serious or not, since you don't really seem to be making any effort to back up anything you are saying with any real numbers.

    It isn't completely made up of rookies, currently just 40% rookies, and probably one of the least experienced teams in the league in terms of man games.

    What is the benchmark for you? Do they have to all become 50 goal scorers in order to be deemed a successful WHL player? What if they just become a solid two-way player by the time they graduate from the WHL? You don't really know what they are capable of, until you try though right? Remember Rhyse Dieno?
    .
    The Rebels have 9 rookies out of 26 players on the roster or 35%. Chances are, 2 of them are going to get cut yet leaving 7. Then if the goalie plan works out, Martin will be heading down the road, allowing another 20 year old forward or defenseman to join the mix. Which will probably result in another rookie saying goodbye. Realistically they will end up with 6 rookies on the roster, of which 1 is 18, maybe 1 is 16 and the rest are 17. Barring injuries, 3 of those will be scratched every game resulting in 3 rookies actually playing, of which 1 is an 18 year old goaltender.

    The Regina team that handed the Rebels their butts on Sunday night has 8 rookies on the 26 man roster. Not a lot different.

    Don't know why we are talking Benchmarks. I am simply stating that obviously these players that are being moved for lower picks, didnt impress their current team enough to be looked at as part of the future of the team. I know there are systems that don't suit certain playing styles so maybe some of these guys excel in Red Deer and become important parts going forward. However, the rookie whose spot was just taken by these guys might develop into something as well. Brayden Burke is a glaring example of a rookie who wasn't given a chance to develop in this system, only to be traded and become one of the league's leading scorers.

    I am sure there is a let down to come back to the whl after playing in the show and I am sure there was a fatigue factor as well. But it certainly wasn't showing in Sam Steele's 2 goal, 3 assist, 1st star performance after coming back from Anaheims camp.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    The Rebels have 9 rookies out of 26 players on the roster or 35%. Chances are, 2 of them are going to get cut yet leaving 7.
    Possibly, though after watching most of training camp, exhibition and the first 5 games, I would be more inclined to believe that one of the two that will be getting cut is a veteran defenseman...

    Realistically they will end up with 6 rookies on the roster, of which 1 is 18, maybe 1 is 16 and the rest are 17. Barring injuries, 3 of those will be scratched every game resulting in 3 rookies actually playing, of which 1 is an 18 year old goaltender.
    If you are able to carry five or six rookies on your roster every season, and the players are on a four or five year cycle, then you are basically maintaining your roster from within. The six rookies will cycle in and out of the lineup, much like the second year players like Pratt did last season, and if all goes well, they will all take a regular shift next season. Sadly, you can also scratch Reese Johnson off your list too, as I think it will be a long time before we see him in the lineup again. Johnson's injury is what likely set the wheels in motion on the Dawson Martin deal.

    It seems to me that you are complaining about things that haven't actually happened yet...

    The Regina team that handed the Rebels their butts on Sunday night has 8 rookies on the 26 man roster. Not a lot different.
    Experience wasn't as much of a factor in that game, as was the fact that Regina weren't playing their third game in three nights. It is even more of a factor when none of the players are totally in game shape yet. Regina also has more talent among the returning players in their lineup, and is projected to be one of the top teams, if not the top team in the east this season.

    However, the rookie whose spot was just taken by these guys might develop into something as well.
    Aside from Freadrich, I don't see any rookies spots being taken by any of the trades involving players coming back that have been made. Weatherill's spot was taken by another rookie, Roy took another veteran's spot (Rattie), and Dawson Martin takes another veteran's spot (Johnson). Verhelst would be theoretically taking over Trevor Martin's spot. Freadrich on the other hand, is clearly going to supplant one of the first year defenders, which is fine by me, because that is too many rookies on the back end at the same time.

    Brayden Burke is a glaring example of a rookie who wasn't given a chance to develop in this system, only to be traded and become one of the league's leading scorers.
    1/10000 isn't bad When Burke finally made the team, the knock on him was still that he was too small, and he got almost immediately injured early in the season. I think that injury is what really soured the team on him, which is really unfortunate because he turned out to be a hell of a hockey player! At the end of the day though, the Rebels couldn't go into the year where they were bidding on the Memorial Cup on a losing note, and Burke was a victim of that.

    I am sure there is a let down to come back to the whl after playing in the show and I am sure there was a fatigue factor as well. But it certainly wasn't showing in Sam Steele's 2 goal, 3 assist, 1st star performance after coming back from Anaheims camp.
    I really like that you think there is a player on Red Deer's roster this season that is even half as offensively talented as Sam Steele! We will make you into a more positive poster yet.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    Possibly, though after watching most of training camp, exhibition and the first 5 games, I would be more inclined to believe that one of the two that will be getting cut is a veteran defenseman...

    My guess is the odd man out would probably be Austin Shmoorkoff. There might not be room for him on the back end and if they moved him up to forward he would probably only see 4th line minutes. That's a better place to slot one of the rookies.

    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    If you are able to carry five or six rookies on your roster every season, and the players are on a four or five year cycle, then you are basically maintaining your roster from within. The six rookies will cycle in and out of the lineup, much like the second year players like Pratt did last season, and if all goes well, they will all take a regular shift next season. Sadly, you can also scratch Reese Johnson off your list too, as I think it will be a long time before we see him in the lineup again. Johnson's injury is what likely set the wheels in motion on the Dawson Martin deal.

    What is Johnson's injury and how long is he out for.

    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    1/10000 isn't bad When Burke finally made the team, the knock on him was still that he was too small, and he got almost immediately injured early in the season. I think that injury is what really soured the team on him, which is really unfortunate because he turned out to be a hell of a hockey player! At the end of the day though, the Rebels couldn't go into the year where they were bidding on the Memorial Cup on a losing note, and Burke was a victim of that.

    Besides Burke being small and being injured he may not have fit into Sutter's style of play either. From what I can remember we got a pretty decent return when we traded Burke and Fafard to Lethbridge. That being a 5th rnd '17 conditional and Riley Sheen.
    Last edited by BDKrebel; 10-05-2016 at 08:34 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDKrebel View Post
    My guess is the odd man out would probably be Austin Shmoorkoff.
    That is kind of where I am at too.

    What is Johnson's injury and how long is he out for.
    "indefinite" and when he when off the ice that night, his wrist looked VERY broken.

    we got a pretty decent return when we traded Burke and Fafard to Lethbridge. That being a 5th rnd '17 conditional and Riley Sheen.
    That team would have been SO bad without Sheen on it too.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    My biggest fear is that the Blues send Bleackley back, and the team decides to hold on to him...
    I see St. Louis sent Bleackley to Chicago of the AHL on the weekend so that should put any fears to rest that he is coming back to Red Deer unless he absolutely sucks which wouldn't be a stretch. Maybe he has learned his lesson about being in shape when camp starts and toned down some of his other extracurricular activities. Lord knows he's been given enough chances.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDKrebel View Post
    I see St. Louis sent Bleackley to Chicago of the AHL on the weekend so that should put any fears to rest that he is coming back to Red Deer unless he absolutely sucks which wouldn't be a stretch. Maybe he has learned his lesson about being in shape when camp starts and toned down some of his other extracurricular activities. Lord knows he's been given enough chances.
    I guess from a fan standpoint, Sheen was entertaining to watch which was good. I am guessing when Sutter made the trade he was hoping that Sheen could aid in a playoff run so the 5 game first round loss probably wasn't seen as achieving the goal.

    Can't see Bleackley ever playing in the Sutter system again. If he does get sent back it will be an immediate trade to a contending team for prospect or picks. No reason to fear that at all. Here's hoping they send him back.

  7. #17

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    Brutal job of reffing tonight. What should have been non call after non call. Went both ways but completely took the flow and speed out of what was an exciting game to watch.

    Medicine Hat is trying to be the Vancouver Canucks of the whl. Feel the stick and fall. And the snapping of the head back when given a push was some of the best acting I have seen. Lucky a couple of them didnt give themselves whiplash. I hope the refs review the game tape so they can see what fools the MH players made of them as they called the penatly every time.

    I guess it shouldn't surprise anybody. The Rebels coaching staff couldnt put a powerplay together last year with three first round nhl draft picks on the first unit so why would we expect they could put one together this year. Even if they could have got it in the MH end would have been nice.

    A completely lackluster effort from both 20 year olds tonight. Polei made so many bad decisions with the puck it was borderline comical.

    Wasted what was a very good effort from Spacek tonight.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonergroupie View Post
    Brutal job of reffing tonight. What should have been non call after non call. Went both ways but completely took the flow and speed out of what was an exciting game to watch.
    They actually did a pretty good job, if they were trying to hand the game to the Tigers, since they were quite successful. I actually left the game after the crosscheck call on Hagel to spoon-feed the Tigers a five on three powerplay. I certainly didn't pay to come watch the refs, and it was clear that they had already decided who was going to win.

    Medicine Hat is trying to be the Vancouver Canucks of the whl. Feel the stick and fall. And the snapping of the head back when given a push was some of the best acting I have seen. Lucky a couple of them didnt give themselves whiplash.
    Hard to blame them for doing it, when the refs seem to buy it every time. Would be nice to see the league crack down on that crap, and start reviewing plays, and handing out suspensions after the fact to the players after so many embellishments. Mark Rassell and Chad Butcher probably wouldn't play another game this season!

    I guess it shouldn't surprise anybody. The Rebels coaching staff couldnt put a powerplay together last year with three first round nhl draft picks on the first unit so why would we expect they could put one together this year. Even if they could have got it in the MH end would have been nice.
    They had several powerplays where they set up the power play and got a number of shots directed at the goal, but a lot of them were getting blocked by the Tigers, as well as their own players. Overall, the powerplay looks surprisingly better than last season, despite the decrease in offensive skill. Penalty kill is still bad however, possibly as bad as last season.

    Polei made so many bad decisions with the puck it was borderline comical.
    Another goal for him last night, to give him five goals and seven points in six games. If those bad plays are working for him, keep on doing it!

    Wasted what was a very good effort from Spacek tonight.
    This is actually the first game that Spacek played in since being returned from Winnipeg. The rest of them he spent all his time 'Bleackleying" around the ice. Maybe he has finally accepted the fact that he will be here for the rest of the season?
    Last edited by SectionNDeserter; 10-08-2016 at 08:04 AM.

  9. #19
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    I agree with everything both of you have said except for the penalty that Hagel took to put them on a two man disadvantage. Yes the reffing sucked. The Medicine Hat player just gave Hagel a little nudge. He just should have just skated away. Instead Hagel put both hands on his stick and shoved him at shoulder to head level. It’s automatic for the referee to call a penalty. Yes the Medicine Hat player fell like a soccer player that just got shot. Hagel could have just shoved him without a stick and probably wouldn’t have got a penalty. At least I hope he wouldn’t have. I know you guys are going to disagree with this but I will give you guys another example of this when you do. It happened about 8-9 years ago against the same team. Both of you will remember it if you were at that particular game.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDKrebel View Post
    The Medicine Hat player just gave Hagel a little nudge. He just should have just skated away. Instead Hagel put both hands on his stick and shoved him at shoulder to head level.
    The Rebels were already a man short, and in addition to the Tiger player embellishing it, the official could have VERY easily given one of the THREE Tigers that mauled Hagel after that a roughing penalty to even it up (like every other official in the league would). It was nothing more than an attempt by the (5' tall) official to be the center of attention, and was clearly the turning point of the game, rather than an actual hockey play.

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