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Thread: 2019-2020 - November& DEcember Games - Drown your sorrows over the season here!

  1. #21

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    I am not a fan of JP and I stand staunchly behind my reasonings. I don't dislike him personally I'm simply not a fan. Since I am not in JP's head I'm not going to parse or try to justify each and every trade he has made. I don't know and neither does anyone else for that matter what he was thinking. I know where we were at when he took over and what we had for assets, and how well stocked we were. I know where we are at now and what we have for assets. I also know what the past 6 years have produced in the way of tangible results and what the picture looks like for the nest 2-3 years. Many of those trades are hurting us today and will hurt us for years. Long after JP is no longer here! For every good trade there is a bad one but it's much more than trades. There is the issue of ineffective recruiting, drafting, overpayments/returns, draining/depleting resources, discipline, succession planning, staffing, coaching and more. If someone likes JP and thinks he has done great things here, then have at it. It's simply a point of view based on whatever criteria they choose. I'm a results oriented person whereas some may not be. People can like his body of work but I am not one of them. For their 8 year tenure (if they make it) they are poised to be 1-7 when it come to producing good teams. Like I said I'm results oriented.

    When I hear that JP has led us to prominence the hair on my neck stands up, and I call horse manure!! While I was never a fan of Parker, it was he and Chad Lang that put together most of the talent JP had at his disposal. The year before JP took over (2013) we had won 1st place in the east and the included Pennant (most people can't remember back that far). We were poised on becoming a contender. He took over, deconstructed that team and it took three more seasons before we won another pennant. Then in 2018 he had assembled a team for the Memorial Cup that was sub .500 at the break and he had to empty the cupboards to keep from embarrassing everyone at the Tournament. That pre Jan 10 club of 2017-18 was simply awful but it was his design. Post memorial Cup we are already into the 2nd year of what is likely to be a 4-5 year sentence.

    When anybody looks at the facts as opposed to following blindly the false narrative, it's clear to see that we have had only one (1) quality team in the last 6 years. That in no way can be construed as a return to excellence, prominence, or even relevance?? The raw truth is we are still mediocre with mediocre talent. By the time were are done with living in the out-house, this tenure will be graciously described as "extreme mediocrity". Even after they start to come out of the funk, it will take a couple more years before they become contenders again. There are some who unfortunately have never lived through sustained success (it's all over the league but not here), and they have absolutely zero understanding of what that means. Sadly there is a whole group of fans who think one good season every now and then is what success looks like. The rest of the time the spin doctors, apologists, and fake new fill in the blanks with unadulterated bull crap. If JP and Struch survive two contracts (8 years) they will have no doubt built one good team in eight seasons. That's probably worse than what Parker and crew actually did. A glitzy scoreboard and few other things in no way impacts the on-ice product.

    Great teams and Organizations are measured by success and championships. I have been a seasons ticket holder, supporter, and benefactor for over three decades. I have seen good, bad and mediocre management. Sadly this management team is looking like so many others before them that I have seen. When all else fails look at the numbers…..

  2. #22

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    I remember 2013. We did have a pennant year...that ultimately resulted in a big upset sweep by a team that got pounded the next round in similar fashion. Macaulay completely and absolutely shat his pants and wouldnt even be able to stop that stupid flying blimp from flying through the net in that first round. I don't agree that 2013 team was poised to be a contender, personally. Wagner and Brooks likely wouldn't have blossomed the next year if they remained under Cameron/Dixon (I even remember many on here were ready to see Brooks released outright). Those two were big parts of that cycle culmination. The Henry trade also likely wouldn't have happened, or Leedahl and others.

    Although you're a results guy, you should know junior hockey works in cycles(unless youre portland, kelowna, london, kitchener, etc, who get their talent under sketchy circumstances. I dont want that anyways, the results are tainted). You know that you can't win the cup every year in a developmental league. You just can't. Nor can you expect to be a 3rd round+ team each year. By knowing that, its fair to instead judge teams by their 3 or 4 year cycles. You start small, grow your expectations by the year and at the end of the cycle(or when the time is right) you go all in for a championship run. Most teams peak in their cycle at round 2 or so, due to the level of competition(other teams doing it better) or a few issues with some development. This isn't good enough but it's largely the norm. Conversely some other franchises flourish early and have solid teams for years. It takes a combination of the right coaches, right veterans and also luck to do this...But more on that later.

    Id say the last cycle is centered around Sam Steel. He was the core to build around. Even though the new staff piggy backed a bit off the previous mediocre team, for the most part the core was new. And alot happened in between from padakin to Sanford to mahura etc.

    I honestly think paddocks first one was a great cycle, especially the first three years. One ok 2nd round appearance, and one great 2nd, and the one finals. and yes, though its easy to say in retrospect, we would've won it all in 2017(pending a healthy Jake and brooks) if we went all in 2017 instead of saving some for the nect year. But let's not pretend paddock went rogue on us and tried to have both 2017 and 2018; we all wanted it. Memorial cup pressure from the owners and fans played a role. It didn't end up working out but either way you slice it, that cycle and the players involved had the makings of an actual championship team. And I don't see it being despite paddock, or him just Mr.magooing his way into it.

    To be fair, post-steel, we havnt really built around anything yet. This high pick is still 2 years away from joining. But this cycle now is what it is. A memorial cup rebuild and a half. Last years result was expected, and though this year has been stinky so far, i can see we have improved. The results will hopefully reflect that.

    But you know, we can agree to disagree on paddock. Whats past is past, and time will tell on this rebuild, but I think I have good reasons to be optimistic. This high draft pick should be the ticket out of the whl depths, but for now the upcoming deadline may help salvage this purgatory we have now. Maybe we give this Chorney kid someone to play with, and make it interesting.

    EdIt: I also want you to remember how deep that division we were in was. Swift was tough, moose jaw was tough. The two top reg season records. Brandon was also behind us as the 7th best team in the league. If we lost a couple games at the end of the reg season, we would've faced a weak medicine hat in the first round instead. Things would've been very different. But of course, everything sort of went the worst case scenario...though we did give the eventual league champs the toughest series they had that post season, without Gabrielle as well. Unfortunately all people will remember is that we didn't win.
    Last edited by Some_Arrogant_Jerk; 11-30-2019 at 01:42 AM.

  3. #23

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    I do want to add something semi unrelated but necessary.

    I think its a huge problem that the West conference only has two teams miss playoffs each year(PG dutifully fills one of those positions each year to benefit all the others), and the east conf has four teams miss post season qualification. Nowhere else in the CHL do four teams in a conference miss playoffs. The OHL has two miss in each conf, and the Q has 2 miss playoffs in their ENTIRE LEAGUE.

    Playoffs are a massive part of a players development. NHL camps, on + off ice time with quality veterans, call ups, and the right coach are difference makers, but playoff hockey is the NUMBER ONE developer of players period. And each year 4 teams in this stupid conference miss the post season. In the current format, teams and players will stagnate if only the top 2/3rds of a conference "earn" playoff time. Even if its just getting whooped by the top seed for four games, it gives these kids, *especially early in their careers, a sense of what the playoff atmosphere feel is like. They can experience the higher pressure and higher level of play, and prepare for it in the future. They learn the feel of the next level, and can put a face on the goal they strive to reach.

    If these souless corporate suits cared at all about player development and being competitive with the rival countries who are passing Canada, they would've corrected this problem a long time ago. This is a DEVELOPMENTAL league, and playoff hockey is absolutely necessary to develop players properly.

    Give us a wild card game, reformat the conferences, or even have EVERYBODY qualify for playoffs. I dont care. They need to do something new because right now this is one of the big drivers towards the decline of Canadian hockey.

  4. #24

    Default Pats should try different systems!

    Agreeing to disagree is both necessary and healthy. I can respect that because it allows for healthy exchange of ideas and keeps people vigilant and knowledgeable about what's really going on.

    Because the WHL is a developmental league we have to give kids the best chance to succeed. That doesn't happen when they continually play on poor teams. Poor organizations are not scouted as heavily as good ones. Kids are neither seen as much nor are they seen in the best light when they are scouted. We've had nobody taken in the NHL Draft the last couple years and barring a miracle, the next couple drafts don't look too promising either. Unfortunately this is a symptom of what I perceive as a larger issue. Going 3-5 years without having a kid drafted is a real downer for the organization and it's supporters. Let's hope that changes soon. Kids will only want to come to a team that's doing well, especially top end talent.

    The issue of playoffs raised it's head and even the NHL is looking at this again. I completely agree that something must change in the WHL and we should only reward success. In 2017-18 Saskatoon had a .514 winning% with 74 points. They were ahead of both Red Deer who had a .465% and Lethbridge who had a .500%, yet Saskatoon missed the playoffs.. It was grossly unfair and cost Dean Brockman his job. Something should be done to see that teams with the best regular season records make the playoffs. The chance to win and develop is great. The 2 or three home gates helps keep these teams in a healthy financial place. I also have a problem with only 2 teams being out in the Western Conference and 4 teams being out in the Eastern Conference. It should be balanced. One way might be move Lethbridge into the Western Conference. After all Swift Current had to move into the Central this year! Then it would balance the case to having three teams in each conference fail to make playoffs. The conferences should give the top two spots in each division the nod. All, remaining teams would be ranked by total points in the regular season. If that had been the case Saskatoon would have made the playoffs in 2017-18. I'm sure there are other good suggestions out there that would be interesting to hear.

    For this season if the Pats hope to win even 10-12 games they need to change their systems immediately. They can't give up 88 shots over two games and be outscored 8-2 in those two games. Max is holding them in and giving them a chance but that's about all there is. Maybe they should go and watch Everett to see how they play. They are tough team defence first and then score off turnovers and PP's. They are also in 1st place in the tough USA Division. With the type and calibre of players the Pats have they need to change their game to a strong defensive game. I don't know if Struch knows how to play that way or implement that style. You can't play run and gun….possession hockey with the calibre of talent they currently have. They need to adapt but it seems they are unwilling to try. IMO Paddock needs to consider making a move by changing to a coach who can coach the type of players we may have to utilize for the next few years. We have to install a system that gives them a chance of success. When we eventually get some elite talents here, that can be changed to best utilize their talents. Right now it seems we are trying to play the same way as when we had some elite talent here. Round peg in square hole right now!
    It just won't work.

    A bit of an interesting note I see that Joona Kivinemi has apparently left or been released by the Vancouver Giants. They have added a kid by the name of Kvasnica. Portland drafted him and he played in Portland last year having 20 points I believe. Kivinemi had 16 goals last season in Swift Current and was pegged to have a great season this year. I guess you never know about Imports.

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