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Thread: 2021 Regular Season

  1. #21

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    I see that Bedard has been invited to WJHC selection camp. Hockey Canada is no doubt aware of the less than desirable situation he finds himself in here. He will be playing along side a number of world class players so I expect he may really shine. It's not often a 16 year old makes that squad but if any 16 can, it could be him. I wish the kid luck making the squad. Whether or not he makes that squad his absence is going to hurt the Pats a great deal. Add in the fact Nijhoff is sitting for three games for a stupid penalty, matter are even more trying.

    Just so I am crystal clear here, my posts are not based on scores in a previous game. I couldn't give a Rats (you know what) about any individual score. My posts are based on my opinion and how I feel period! They got beat 10-3 and so what. The got beat by Lethbridge 6-1 on our home ice as Lethbridge was completing a long road trip so what. They are what they are, and will likely get hammered again this season. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s__t! Game times and scheduling are nothing more than excuses. After the game in Red Deer the team probably headed back to Calgary where they usually base from. They went bed, got up, had breakfast, and went to play a game. However so did Calgary. Same time and same sheet of ice. Time to get over that stuff..

    My posts reflect what I see and believe. Every team in the CHL has had it's own share of problems, and a lot of what if's, coulda, shoulda, woulda, etc. The Pats haven't been anymore impacted over the last 8 years than any other team. Even last year they were the home base of the bubble and slept in their own beds each night. I can't speak for other posters but I'm not down on the team. I'm down on those who constructed this team. In 8 years I've only seen one good team (2017). Paddock took over a team that had won the East Division Pennant the year before. It was loaded with talent and had cupboards chock full of talent. A bunch of trades (many questionable) but it took three more seasons before we won another Pennant. It was good team but not good enough. The following year on team having a bunch of talent, they underperformed. REASON???. At Xmas they were like three games below .500....why? A month or 6 weeks into the season JP should have got rid of a few bad eggs and changed the culture on the team. Instead he waited until the deadline hoping Wagner would be returned...how droll..He then traded or sold everything he had at his disposal. It was team of hired guns. Some worked and others didn't. They never really gelled and although the record improved they were out in the first round of playoffs..We had a decent Memorial Cup but in the end we couldn't score a goal when it mattered and were pretty much outclassed. We weren't good enough to win. Now we're four years removed from the Memorial Cup and still wallowing in mediocrity but mostly less than that. The 8 year tenure has not produced a great deal, and the last four have been terrible. Good managers overcome difficult circumstances. Bad ones use those circumstances as excuses. So do their apologists! Here may be a point of interest to some: The Hamilton Bulldogs who we beat in the semi final at the Memorial Cup have qualified for the playoffs every season since the Cup. This year they are leading their division in the OHL. The called themselves a rag-tag bunch of nobody's. Very Telling!

    With a dose of reality out of the way, where does this team go from here? Winnipeg is loaded and will be for the next several years. They trade extra assets for chances at extra picks. They traded to move up and got Geekie at the draft. He will be the top WHL player taken in the upcoming NHL draft. They are well positioned in the next two drafts so their dominance could last several more years and maybe even a decade. The only way to compete with that is start moving older, perhaps unneeded, sometime skilled guys players who wont be here long and recover as many higher picks as you can. Kootenay suffered through many seasons while setting this plan in place. They even folded there. But now that the fruits of their effort are being rewarded, the run will be long and have great success. WE NEED TO DO THE SAME. You can't go around trying to get wash-ups or problem children to play along side Bedard and hope great things will happen. Being one foot and one foot out will never work! You need top picks and good young players. That's why the loss of a 1st round pick for a guy who is under performing is tough to take. It's also asinine to trade a good young 18 year old who would have been in our top three of scoring had he not been dealt to PA. We had 6'4" DeWitt in the wings having a great year in Tier2, plus others...we didn't need the d-man we got. When we need top pics why are we shooting ourselves in the foot, trading for someone who underperformed last year? His 10 points so far would not have been missed.

    There may be a semblance of a plan going forward. However remember the definition of semblance is: "the outward appearance or apparent form of something, especially when the reality is different". When one looks at our roster, the prospect list, and our recent history a lot of questions come to mind. Being we are likely three years away before we're really competitive, do we have the right people making the decisions to get us where we need to be? I'm of the mind we do not and need to set a new direction for the club in order to get back to where we were when the current GM took over? The moves that are made or not made over the next couple months will have a profound affect on our organization. We can either start making headway through the draft etc, or we can languish in mediocrity for a decade.

    This is how I feel either right or wrong. It's not because of some game score that for sure. It's my feeling and opinion....everybody has one.

  2. #22

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    One had to think PA would be doing this. Hunt seems to have no hesitation in making those big trades. Paddock has to follow suit with Evans as the top price. Based on the price paid Evans has to draw at lest one 1st rounder and some other assets. Can he move Stringer to a team needing some offensive potential? Maybe wrap him up with something else. Cadieux, Dubinsky, Nijhoff (face offs) could be of interest to a lot of clubs. I'm sure PA has another big trade will be coming soon with Allen, another 1st rounder. The first shot has been fired, so now is the time to get serious.

  3. #23

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    What would anyone want from the Pats except Bedard or Kieper? Realistically!!

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by booboo View Post
    What would anyone want from the Pats except Bedard or Kieper? Realistically!!
    Ryker Evans

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    Ryker Evans
    I suppose but not really a game breaker.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by booboo View Post
    I suppose but not really a game breaker.
    He's tied for being the 2nd highest scoring defenseman in the WHL (averaging over a point per game), while being on a below .500 team. The only defenseman with more points than Evans plays on Winnipeg, which is a power house this year. Evans was a 2nd round NHL draft pick for a reason. He's really good (excellent skater) and he'd be a great addition to many line ups.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    He's tied for being the 2nd highest scoring defenseman in the WHL (averaging over a point per game), while being on a below .500 team. The only defenseman with more points than Evans plays on Winnipeg, which is a power house this year. Evans was a 2nd round NHL draft pick for a reason. He's really good (excellent skater) and he'd be a great addition to many line ups.
    I think you're right about Evans who is 6' tall. You don't get drafted where he did without pro-type skills. He is a high octane offensive d-man and is also a plus+7 on a weaker team. Not many d-men could match that. I'm not sure just because of notoriety of Ghule he wouldn't draw four picks with 2-1st rounders included. However he should draw one 1st rounder and perhaps another pick plus a player. Another guy who teams will be interested in is Nijhoff. He is one of the top centres in the WHL when it come to winning draws. He and Reece Vitelli are running neck and neck. Also he has a lot of grit and can score. It's always nice to start each set of plays with the puck. As you know it isn't always the big names who come through in the pinch. Most teams can't find enough gritty players for when the chips are down in stretch runs. Any team interested in a long run will be looking at him. He also has decent size at 6'. IMO none of the following should be deemed untouchable: **Stringer**, Dubinsky, Brook, Johnson, Cadieux, Smith, Sim, and even Fiest.
    Any trades that happen will result in some decent/good players heading this way and an assortment of picks we desperately need.

    Let's hope we can parlay some players for picks in the December 9th Draft. Additional moves could be negotiated after Xmas before the Jan 10 deadline. However IMO the December 9th Draft is the most crucial. There is better chance of getting a roster ready player in that one. Also they should put more work into ensuring the picks they might make will actually sign.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post

    This is how I feel either right or wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's not because of some game score that for sure!!! words words
    Most of this dramatic speech isnt worth addressing. The only things I agree on is Dewitt needs to return, and we need a good talent to play with Bedard.

    That's why the loss of a 1st round pick for a guy who is under performing is tough to take. It's also asinine to trade a good young 18 year old who would have been in our top three of scoring had he not been dealt to PA
    The Stringer/Stanick comparison is interesting, both being 03s with "okay" numbers. Beyond that, Id say moving Stanick was for 1) quick defensive help 2) sending a message to the lockerroom that putting up a couple points doesnt mean you get to float, 3) numbers game and 4) move him to give room to more promising talent, particularly youth like Howe and arguably Valis. We also dont know how well these kids gel with the team/program etc off the ice. Might be a factor, might not. Id say despite your clear dissatisfaction, Stringer was and still is the safer commodity due previous experience as an main offensive contributor, and overall more raw talent/upside. He was never brought in as "the solution" but should grow over the next couple seasons(worth reminding you the 1st bought potentially 3 seasons of him).

    now we're four years removed from the Memorial Cup and still wallowing in mediocrity but mostly less than that.
    I will concede Paddock seems to get too excited/aggressive when it comes to adding players for a playoff run, but he has proven he knows how to build a young team, and generally how to make trades.

    Though I believe the recent troubles are attributed to factors beyond his control, the uncertainty of the league and sport, rather than errors in his judgement(Id be happy to debate the merits of most of his trades). Speaking of trading up in the draft, and how we should try to do that, he managed to get Bedard with the jake/hank trade, who Id say is better than Geekie by the way.

    The main question to ask isnt what he has done, but whether he is the guy to continue managing hockey operations? I still trust his instincts; he doesnt sit on his hands, he gets creative(the guhle deal the other day was likely built through the Mahura deal template), and when he needs something, he isnt afraid to overpay futures to get it.

    Hamilton Bulldogs
    This is a misleading point. In the O, 4 teams in the whole league miss the post season, 2 per conference. In the Q, its only 3. In the WHL *EASTERN* conference, FOUR miss the playoffs! In 2019, Hamilton and the Pats had similar records, and of course in the next two years, the leagues shut down 1/4 into the season

    Good managers overcome difficult circumstances. Bad ones use those circumstances as excuses. So do their apologists!
    Ya ok guy.

    I guess buckle in for the rest of the season. We will see who ends up right. I think the best case scenario is making the playoffs after having traded Evans. If we make it while keeping Evans, that is still good. Missing playoffs after trading Evans and more is no good, and missing the playoffs while keeping him is even worse.

    Either way, it will end with us probably getting dismembered by Winnipeg in the first round best case scenario. or not. Such is life in rebuilding.

  9. #29

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    SAJ,

    What did the Pats pay for an 18 year old Josh Mahura? Then look at what the Pats paid for Stringer. That should signal to you that Stringer is an underachieving project. He was an 8th overall pick 3 years ago.

    Tanner Howe by comparison was a 4th round draft pick last year and he's out-producing Stringer this year. And Howe has done that all before his 16th birthday. A 15 year old (now 16) 4th round draft pick out producing an 18 year old 8th overall pick, which the Pats have a first round draft pick tied up on.

    We need to look at the opportunity cost. The Pats can have a first round (10th overall pick) tied up in an underachieving project who might have a decent / good season next year or as an OA, like Jeff De Wit finally did, but at what cost? The Pats could have used that 1st round draft pick to draft a high end forward in a week from now, who could join the team as a 16 year old and have a much higher ceiling over the course of his career than Stringer. The Pats are rebuilding. They don't need a first round draft pick tied up in a project like Stringer. They need that 10th overall pick to draft a high end forward on Dec 9th.

    Also, It appears that you are missing the big picture here. The Pats are rebuilding. They're missing 1st and 3rd round draft picks in the upcoming prospect draft. They need to sell. They can't be buyers this year. They don't have the resources to buy and rebuild at the same time. They need draft picks, so they must sell. It would be a huge mistake to be buyers this year just to hopefully squeak into the playoffs. Also, if the Pats aren't in the playoff picture with Evans on on the team, they won't be in it without him on the team!

    It's not like the Pats are 5-10 games above .500 right now and might be able to make the playoffs and be sellers at the same time. They're out of the playoff picture, they're rebuilding, they're short on draft picks and they're not going to make the playoffs if they trade Evans, if they can't make the playoffs with him.

    They need to sell right now and they need to sell big (on the players that won't be here next year. The OA's and the 19 year old's who won't be here next year etc.). That way they'll be set up for their rebuild and they may also have a couple of / few picks that they can use to possibly add a couple of players for next year's attempt at making the playoffs, while still having enough picks in the coffers for a rebuild. The Pats are not going anywhere this year. They must use this opportunity to set themselves up for next year and beyond.
    Last edited by Reider; 12-03-2021 at 12:54 AM.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Some_Arrogant_Jerk View Post
    Most of this dramatic speech isnt worth addressing. The only things I agree on is Dewitt needs to return, and we need a good talent to play with Bedard.


    The Stringer/Stanick comparison is interesting, both being 03s with "okay" numbers. Beyond that, Id say moving Stanick was for 1) quick defensive help 2) sending a message to the lockerroom that putting up a couple points doesnt mean you get to float, 3) numbers game and 4) move him to give room to more promising talent, particularly youth like Howe and arguably Valis. We also dont know how well these kids gel with the team/program etc off the ice. Might be a factor, might not. Id say despite your clear dissatisfaction, Stringer was and still is the safer commodity due previous experience as an main offensive contributor, and overall more raw talent/upside. He was never brought in as "the solution" but should grow over the next couple seasons(worth reminding you the 1st bought potentially 3 seasons of him).


    I will concede Paddock seems to get too excited/aggressive when it comes to adding players for a playoff run, but he has proven he knows how to build a young team, and generally how to make trades.

    Though I believe the recent troubles are attributed to factors beyond his control, the uncertainty of the league and sport, rather than errors in his judgement(Id be happy to debate the merits of most of his trades). Speaking of trading up in the draft, and how we should try to do that, he managed to get Bedard with the jake/hank trade, who Id say is better than Geekie by the way.

    The main question to ask isnt what he has done, but whether he is the guy to continue managing hockey operations? I still trust his instincts; he doesnt sit on his hands, he gets creative(the guhle deal the other day was likely built through the Mahura deal template), and when he needs something, he isnt afraid to overpay futures to get it.


    This is a misleading point. In the O, 4 teams in the whole league miss the post season, 2 per conference. In the Q, its only 3. In the WHL *EASTERN* conference, FOUR miss the playoffs! In 2019, Hamilton and the Pats had similar records, and of course in the next two years, the leagues shut down 1/4 into the season


    Ya ok guy.

    I guess buckle in for the rest of the season. We will see who ends up right. I think the best case scenario is making the playoffs after having traded Evans. If we make it while keeping Evans, that is still good. Missing playoffs after trading Evans and more is no good, and missing the playoffs while keeping him is even worse.

    Either way, it will end with us probably getting dismembered by Winnipeg in the first round best case scenario. or not. Such is life in rebuilding.
    What are you trying to prove on here? You don't have the professional training or wherewithal to articulate anybody's motives on this site! Where do you get information? a crystal ball? Disrespectful emogys don't show well on you!...nothing more needs to be said!

    You post about rebuilding on your recent posts but think giving up a #10 1st round pick is a "SAFE" play---really? Rebuilding requires draft picks which are something we throw away as a matter of routine. Stanick was good player and not a floater. I don't have any evidence he was an issue in the dressing, and neither do you unless your back to the crystal ball. Stanick has 12 points to date after a trade and 3 game suspension one he he got there. At least two of his goals were game winning. Now Stringer has 10 points and based on his draft rating should be 20-25 for an 18 year old player. Who in the league would give us a 1st round pick for Stringer (passed over in NHL draft and still not on watch list)... Ya right! I sure hope there is. They had an 18 year old in Stanick we got in the Everett trade who is producing more than Stringer. It's not like 18 year olds are the old guys and their moved out for a 17 year old only a few months younger. Good 18's are your most valued commodity. It was a panic move by a losing team who figured that would change things. We had extra d-men on the team and some in the wings. A needless trade. Vallis (list player) and Howe (4th rnd) have certainly started to play well and benefited from playing a bunch of minutes with Bedard. Even if it could be argued (doubtful) that Stringer has #10 first round worth wouldn't we want to keep both he and Stanick? Both are in the target age group.

    I don't care what you concede but surely you jest right??...JP traded away most of our young talent and picks to obtain veterans for his playoffs runs. That's how we ended up with empty cupboards! He took over a team with talented roster and lots of young picks. They're all gone for veteran name players. All of his moves and he's won nothing of consequence. Don't debate his trades. You would lose! Some of us keep a log! Anybody with any intellect would know you can't move up in the draft unless you have some picks in that draft..geez. WE trade ours away. When he dealt with Lethbridge he had no idea who would get other than 1st round players. If any other team than Tri-cities ball had come up we wouldn't have got Bedard..Outhouse luck pure and simple!! The other pick was Fiest who he now is publicly beefing about.

    Factors...uncertainty...blah blah blah blah.....It;s not like the Pats were the only team in the CHL who had issues. BTW the Pats had the highest budget and spend the most money of any team in the CHL. Biggest staff, most scouts etc etc. The Memorial Cup wasn't a free pass for future poor performance. IT was about a talented team who underperformed out of the gate in 2017-18, and nothing was done about it, and the problems weren't addressed early. JP was hoping on getting returnees, waiting too long sitting on his hands, then panic selling everything so he, the team, the ownership, and the City weren't embarrassed. Hardly a recipe for success. Red Deer and Saskatoon tried that as hosts years ago, and it also didn't work. It never does.

    Ya ok guy!!...you're free to be an apologist for Paddock. However I refuse to...he still hasn't won anything in 8 years and doubtful he ever will. beginning to look more like the Hicke and Parker tenures. Everything in sports is about what you've accomplished man...yes what you've done...geez that's what it's all about. They don't ask how...they ask how many! Anybody could come in as a GM and trade away your future and assets, and never win anything substantive. It's like a 10 year make work project. In the mean time load your team up with below average American drafted players because you can't recognize good Canadian talent, or get them to report. Then sit back and watch them produce nothing! JP's best coaching days were in the 80's and early 90's. He will be forever known as the GM who traded Timu Selanne for a couple happy meals in 96. It must be noted that's the year the Winnipeg Jets folded!

    If the Pats trade Evans as they should, it's unlikely the Pats make the playoffs. He's their leading scorer and best offensive threat. If Evans goes probably one or two others go as well. You can't have it both ways. If they can somehow back in, you're right on that point. They will be cannon fodder and take away what can be garnered from that experience.
    Either way the Pats are years away from relevance again. It's doubtful JP will be an active part of any resurgence, and Bedard will probably be in the NHL by then. I know what the company line said. That he would be back in same role next season. It's doubtful and probably PR for public consumption and face saving. JP is approaching 70 years of age and I seriously doubt he wants to ride the bone shaker for 6 months over Western Canada. He may just decide to turn in his papers at the end of the year.
    Last edited by chopper; 12-03-2021 at 02:13 AM.

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