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Thread: 2022 -= 2023 Season (Camp-pre-season-regular season)

  1. #31

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    I agree with the previous post. I do believe that ownership is likely heavily if not completely in the drivers seat here. The strange thing is that we got Bedard by almost a sheer fluke. If anyone other than Tri-Cities ball had come out, we wouldn't have got him. This wasn't a case where Regina drafted a kid high and he went on to be the best prospect in the world. He was already that! If one was to look back at where all the other #1 picks over the years, pretty much nobody would be able to name the players or teams they played for. There have been five exceptional status players granted I believe. Off the top of my head I can name perhaps two players and one junior team. The fans of the pro teams mostly don't know or care. They just want a great player! For the Pats ownership it's really just a legend in your own mind thing. It's only in Regina and perhaps some places in the WHL where it really means much of anything to anyone.

    If the Pats don't move Bedard, especially if we don't make the playoffs or do and are bounced in 4 by a team like Winnipeg; the fallout and reverberations will be heard and felt for years to come. The asset losses we have sustained and that will incur in the near future are exponentially greater than having him and making one round. However if we should miss the playoffs and it's a real possibility that would go down as one of the greatest faux pas of recent memory regarding junior hockey. Considering the road trip (10 games) is taxing. Then once back they play about three tough teams right away including Winnipeg again and Saskatoon. When you also factor in injuries, suspensions, WJHC camps, it makes the reality of having a very bad record by Xmas very possible. I don't know how serious the injuries are but Vallis is injured, and Howe didn't play after the 1st period. It would be very troublesome to go the road trip to BC without them. The net takeaway is that any owner or GM who actually cares about the team, as opposed to themselves, would look at maximizing the Connor Bedard period. Also allowing him to play deep into the playoffs and possibly the Memorial Cup. Who and why would anybody want to take that away from him. His legacy would provide asset dividends for years to come, and could be the catalyst the Pats need to get back to a position of respect and relevance. It's mind boggling to hear that a team below .500 would actually say that they are not going to trade him.

    I sure hope that SAJ is right and that the Pats have an epiphany. Doing the right thing for the team and the fans who pay the freight would be encouraging. Paying the highest seat prices in Saskatchewan to watch a perennial sub .500 is getting very old and trying. It's great to watch Bedard's skill and it will be something to talk about for years to come. But many of us want the team to be exceptional as opposed to one player. Bedard deserves more than what he was been provided to work with. When you factor in the WJHC, road trip etc. Bedard won't be in Regina very long. Even if he stays after the trade deadline he will only be here a few (3) months. If we don't make playoffs then he's off back home. If we managed to back into a spot then he has to play 4 games, and then go home. Just barely making the playoffs last year didn't help the PA Raiders. They had to go into full rebuild and selloff mode this year.

    I agree with all the possibly landing places for Bedard should they come around to moving him. Kamloops needs to do more than Demek. Everett is near the end of their cycle and I suspect wants to atone for last year. They have enough assets to make a great package. Kamloops has quite a bit but they can't provide two 1st rounders in succession. It would have to be for picks in much later years. Surprisingly Seattle still has quite a few assets they could package up. Portland is a wild card but Johnstone has lots of guts and willing to trade top picks for what he wants.

    In the East it a lot mirkier for sure. Red Deer has lots of picks and assets to put together a great package. And JP has had a trading history with those guys. Winnipeg could be in play. They may want someone to really take them over the top. The have only added Sward and Beaupit but it may not be enough when the final countdown happens. Lastly Saskatoon has a good deep club but need a game breaker. They have lots of assets but rivalry thing may be in play a bit but shouldn't. A wildcard could be Moose Jaw who are underperforming a bit I believe, however again that one is hard to call.

    We've been mostly talking about Bedard, however if Svosil was also included in the talks, returns for him would be very extensive. Obviously most of us don't have any input at all in this matter. All we can do is voice our opinions and vote with our feet should that need arise.
    Last edited by chopper; 11-18-2022 at 04:51 PM.

  2. #32

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    Pats Acquire Riley Ginnell From Moose Jaw. Seems like JP is shuffling the deck chairs again in the 20 y/o category - I don't see who was cut to make room - I assume Brook.
    1938-39 Regina Pats scoring leader

  3. #33

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    One might wonder if the deck chairs alluded above, are from the Titanic?

    I guess there is some logic to this but its pretty thin IMO. Brook is 6'3" - 200 lbs. He has 3 points in 7 games. Ginnell is 6'4" - 205 Lbs. He has 3 points in 16 games.

    There is so little between them that you wonder why the Pats would give up anything (even a meaningless pick) to make that type of change. I apologize to Brook if he's not the one moved, however it looks that way.

    With Dubinsky going to PG (where he's playing great) it seemed we may be using that OA spot to bring in an elite type player to help us make playoffs. I suspect Paddock found out they are selling for far more than he can pay, especially in light of the ridiculous amount resources used in the Oremba trade!!!! Probably now these are they types of trades that we can expect, particularly if they don't move off the position of not trading Bedard. It's a no-brainer as far as what needs to be done. The braintrust and brain power are clearly the concern.

    It will be mildly interesting to see what chairs are reorganized. My hopes for change move much further up the food chain!

  4. #34

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    So the end result is we traded Dubinsky for Ginnell. When Dubinsky goes to PG - his productivity goes up. This supports my contention that there is a motivation problem with the Pats. I say we got suckered in this 20 y/o shuffle.
    1938-39 Regina Pats scoring leader

  5. #35

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    It would seem like great minds think alike. JP has been playing musical chairs with the OA's since before the season started. He moved the Pats' 20 goal OA in Cole Dubinsky, who was off to a slow start, but since he's arrived in Prince George, he's been on fire. Why didn't he play like that in Regina? How come he was able to literally flip the switch once he got to PG? I agree that there has to be a reason. There's gotta be something about Regina.

    Riley Ginnell is one inch taller and 5 pounds heavier than Jacob Brook and both players only have 3 points this year. What was the point of that move? Was one inch and 5 pounds worth a 5th round draft pick? The only thing I can think of is that Riley Ginnell did score 14 goals last year, so it's possible that the Pats think they can get more production out of him this year, not unlike PG is getting more production out of Dubinsky. However, unless that actually happens, it would seem like the Pats are moving deck chairs around on the titanic.

    Howe and Bedard don't seem to be the happiest of players either. Howe was a 27 goal scorer last year as a 15/16 year old. He scored a lot of nice one-timer goals last year. Suzdalev is a really good player and can shoot the puck as well. But Howe is 5'10 and Suzdalev is 6'3 and Howe was demoted to being the net front guy, in front of goaltenders who are almost all over 6 ft tall. Now that the Pats acquired Riley Ginnell (6'4, 205lbs) is he going to be the net front guy on the PP? Howe has still been scoring goals despite his role change. He has 11 goals so far this year, but he'd have quite a few more, if he was the shooter on all of those one-timer goals that Suzdalev has scored on. Howe's production is arguably less than it could be this year due to Suzdalev taking his role on the PP this year.

    Bedard doesn't have a bunch of elite veteran players on the team to help take the pressure off of him.

    The Pats beat Vancouver 3-0 last night in Langley, BC. Drew Sim (47 saves) played a fantastic game in goal. He looked focused, sharp, and quick in the net. That's the kind of effort and performance that they need out of him every game. Riley Ginnell played his first game in a Pats uniform last night. He's certainly a big body. He doesn't seem to be the greatest skater on the ice, so he doesn't really seem like a JP type of player. It's only been one game, but he didn't score any points and he doesn't appear to be overly strong for his size. We've seen players in the past like Jordin Tootoo, Tanner Jeannot etc.. who can play strong heavy games and if JP brought Ginnell in for his size, he definitely has size. As far as the impact on the game and level of production that the Pats will get out of him, that remains to be seen. Hopefully he can get settled in and be a strong role player for the Pats or have an impact on the game in some way, but only time will tell.

    The Pats beat Victoria tonight 9-5 in Victoria. Tanner Howe scored 3 goals in the first period for his first career hat trick, two days before his 17th birthday. He finished the night with 4 goals and 2 assists. Howe is now tied for 8th in the league in points (33). Connor Bedard also scored a hat trick. Stanislav Svozil scored a goal and had 3 assists and is now 4th in the league in points for defensemen. Drew Sim played in goal in the 3rd period and didn't give up any goals. Riley Ginnell scored his first goal as a Regina Pat (empty net). The Pats penalty kill was really bad tonight. They gave up 4 goals on the PK (The Royals went 4 for 5 on the PP). With the win the Pats got back to a .500 winning percentage.

    Tanner Brown is a 2nd line defenseman and Parker Berge is a 3rd line defenseman, but for some reason these two defenseman almost always seem to be on the ice together to start the games. Any idea why? It just seems odd why they wouldn't just go with Svozil and Bateman to start the games or one of the other two defensive pairings, instead of going with one player from the 2nd pairing and one from the 3rd.
    Last edited by Reider; 11-27-2022 at 01:08 AM.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    It would seem like great minds think alike.
    I guess thats my cue to jump in with my apologist routine.

    People see big numbers and think "he couldve done this here"...but it doesnt work that way. Dubinsky is putting up better offensive totals right now specifically because of a much-needed change of scenery. He went from going four years without playoffs, and playing behind at least 4 younger players in offensive situations(likely feeling underappreciated) in his OA year...now to a team with new line-mates(and opponents), much more PP time, and a bigger role...and most importantly, the relief of playing on a team already destined to comfortably make the post season. This is what it's like playing being in a proper developmental league conference(unlike the endless disaster of the WHL East Conference, where MJ/Calgary are more worried about making playoffs than the rebuilding Tri City).

    The difference in pressure is palpable. It is no wonder he is more motivated(short term at least) to produce.

    Dubinsky had the luxury of playing in extremely high scoring games, all against under .500 clubs. Two vs Van(5-4(L), 6-4(W)), one vs Kel(8-6(L)), and two against Victoria(9-1(W) + 5-2(W)): a club with only 3 wins this year...while in patland we had two games in a row on the road vs the demonic dynasty of Winnipeg, two games against the 2nd and 3rd placed teams in the East, and then two lighter affairs against Edmonton and the rival broncos. The honeymoon for dubinsky is likely to wear off, where he will regress to the mean of being a 60 point player who takes too many penalties, rather than a PPG+ player. He also wasnt traded for nothing, we got a 3rd round pick and a 05 forward who supposedly has offensive potential(such is life acquiring future picks). His departure also brings more icetime that will primarily go to Oremba, who we invested greatly in to carry the torch for Bedard when he either gets traded this year or gets forced to stay the whole season by a greedy ownership.

    And Brook, though of similar size to Ginnell, is not the same player at all. These players are not interchangeable and the most salient difference between the two is attitude. Brook's had a very hard go at it with his terrible injury luck, and inability to reach his expected potential. Given his sour experience here, he's hardly an ideal profile of an overage player...while Ginnell comes in as a big kid who likes to fight(***WE NEED THIS***), with something to prove. It is one thing to have a scrappy player like Mitchell, or a dirty psychopath like jordin tootoo, but a physical presence is entirely another. This team needs the visual physical threat, especially with Bedard here(for now) He can play anywhere in the lineup, and will be highly motivated. Even if it were an lateral move, which I dont think is the case, teams sometimes have to shuffle the cards of non-core players if things arent working, and for the benefit of the core players we invest in to give them new options. I'd go even further to say we also need to move any player with vivid memory of losing. Feist comes to mind, and maybe even Kieper. Im expecting a busy deadline one way or another.
    Last edited by Some_Arrogant_Jerk; 11-26-2022 at 11:06 PM.

  7. #37

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    I agree with most everything SAJ had to say, and they were well thought out comments.

    There is a high degree of toxicity surrounding the Pats that seems to be a weight on a lot of players. It can rightly be suggested that a lot has to do with the many years of irrelevance and not making the playoffs. And for that matter I might suggest a lot of years of not really having the right mindset to pay the price necessary to a rebuilding plan. Also not having the patience or understanding to implement that plan.

    Dubinsky had 7 points when he was traded. I believe 3 of them came in one game against Tri-Cities. We played a lot of games against sub .500 teams and he didn't produce the way he should have. The trade was a breath of fresh air for him. It is a fact that a lot of the teams he scored on were sub .500 teams in the West, but in all fairness most of the teams we've played with any success in the East were sub .500 teams. I sense he felt devalued here by the coaching staff, and wasn't put in positions regularly where he could have had more offensive success. We did get Shantz who may or may not be a player, and a 2023 3rd rounder return. We are gutted in 2023 so an extra pick is most valuable to them.

    Brook was a big kid that plays with and edge and will fight. He spent for the most part equivalent to two years on the injured list. He lost two years of development thus he was behind the curve somewhat. Ginnell is another big kid who doesn't skate as well as Brook but has managed to stick around and play full seasons and get a bit more experience. He too has an edge to his game and will fight. I watched all his fights and have to defer my opinion as to his toughness. He has some tools and needs to use them because he's not a playmaker. Rybinski was smacking some of our guys around last night on some very questionable hits. I would have hoped somebody would have stepped up. Ginnell, Bateman, Vaughan..somebody geez! It's a 50/50 toss up Ginnell/Brook but neither are a s good a Dubinsky IMO. We all know he will fight to help his mates. Regardless I assume Ginnell is here for the duration unless some trades dictates otherwise. They don't have either McNutt or Dubinsky who provided a lot of grit, so they have to find some somewhere.

    The first line looked good last night but again it was against Victoria. The problem they now have is that Suzdalev doesn't get to play with a playmaker on the 2nd line. He's a natural triggerman. I was hoping they could have looked at Thacker as an OA (had 50 assists last year) with Lethbridge. He had a slow start but is a real playmaker. Would have been a better OA addition I think. Instead he went to Victoria and he looked great last night. Might have worked well with Suzdalev. IMO the Pats need to find another playmaker if possible. They need two capable and talented lines.

    I would agree that ownership is being self absorbed and petty by not at least exploring what trading Bedard might bring. Regardless of what happens, after the WJHC he will only be here for 3 months at best. After that he's gone. He will play in the NHL next season no matter what. Are we so good and that deep we can forgo what he could bring in assets to the organization?

    IMO Keiper's pink slip is overdue as is Feist. Keiper is back to last years form and had to be pulled after the 2nd period last night and needs to go! Feist simply cannot handle the big forwards and tough going. He skates pretty well and always wants to rush the puck, however we have two like him in Svosil and Brown. His points are down a bit because he's not getting as much PP time as before. He should still however draw a good return. I'm still ambivalent about Spencer, Michaels and Rowan. Wouldn't complain if they were included in a package.

    They now get the tough teams on the BC swing. After they return and finish in PA, they get Winnipeg, Calgary, and Saskatoon almost right away. Some tough sledding ahead and then of course the WJHC thrown into the equation. A 17 year old Howe may have to carry the team for a month.

    I agree there may be a flurry of movement at the trade deadline but it remains to be seen what direction it will result in.
    Last edited by chopper; 11-27-2022 at 03:53 PM.

  8. #38

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    Big win in Kelowna tonight. They should have won in regulation, but taking two penalties late in the third period forced them to get it done in OT (after Kelowna capitalized on the PP). The Pats are now above .500, after winning 3 straight road games out west. That was a big goal from Tanner Brown with around 2 and a half minutes left in the game. Then Tanner Brown got called for hooking. It looked like a weak call to me. Then Howe gets called for delay of game and gets kicked out of the game for who knows what. Even the Kelowna play by play guys thought the call on Brown was soft and they didn't know why Howe got kicked out of the game.

    I don't think I can be too hard on Sim this game. 4 out of 5 goals were on the power play and most were really nice goals. And based on the highlights, it looks like he made some nice saves early on to keep them in the game.

    Svozil has put up a lot of points lately. He's now tied for 3rd in points for a defenseman and is only 4 points away from being tied for 1st in the league.

    Howe's goal was nice and was a result of nice passing.

    I have to give some credit on the Spencer goal. Nice shot by Spencer and a nice pass from Ginnell. It's great to see the Pats get that secondary scoring from secondary types of players.

    Suzdalev has a great shot. I know he's a "shooter," but he's a darn good one. I'm really impressed with the Pats' imports this year, especially over the last week or two. Svozil and Suzdalev are on fire offensively. Howe and Suzdalev both have a good chance of scoring 30+ goals this year. Valis is on pace for over 20 goals this year, possibly 25+. The Pats are going to have to find a really good play making center man to go between Howe and Suzdalev next year.

    Their next two games will probably be tough, especially if they are tired. Kamloops has a lot of NHL drafted players (7) and they're a fairly big team. And PG is in first place in that division. The Pats play Englot and Dubinsky back to back. I'm sure both players will be looking to make a statement against the Pats.

  9. #39

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    I watched the entire game last night and I can say without any reservation that it was probably the worst display of officiating I have witnessed in a couple years. Missed calls, incorrect calls, and what appeared to be a real hometown vibe from the officials. Papp (from Kelowna) was horrible and seemed he want to give the Rockets every opportunity to stay in the game, and he succeeded. It was the right outcome but if it had been officiated properly there would have been not need for OT.

    The Pats have five big offensive threats; Bedard, Howe, Suzdalev, Svosil, and Valis. They have a few secondary types but not quite enough of the depth forwards. Nevertheless when the Pats are clicking offensively they can score with pretty much anyone in the league. Their BIG BIG problem is that they can't keep the puck out of their own net. They have given up the same number of goals as they have scored. The reasons are obvious; firstly they don't play any sort of team defense on a consistent basis. They think they can outscore other teams but it seldom works and is why they are a .500 team. It's also why they have only beat one team playing above .500 hockey. The second issue is that they don't have enough big shut down type d-men especially on the PK. Thirdly goaltending is marginally better than last year but we still need a bit more, particularly from Sim. IMO a better d-corps would no doubt improve the goaltending stats.

    The Pats are assured of being over .500 on the BC trip no matter what happens in the next two games. It would be nice if they could get one of the next two but it will be tough going up against the top two dogs in the BC race. They play Edmonton on Sunday and after that game I believe that Bedard is leaving for the WJHC camp. I don't know when Svosil will be going but assume shortly thereafter. Bedard is in on about 75% of our scoring so it's going to be huge hit for the month of December. It will be interesting how they will cope with that loss of offence. I guess it will be a chance to see who steps up and who steps back..

  10. #40

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    Pats' Paddock on possibly trading Connor Bedard: 'We're not doing it'

    Rob Vanstone
    Publishing date:Nov 30, 2022

    “He has a no-trade clause,” Paddock told reporters. “He does not want to be traded. He’s not going anywhere. We don’t want to trade him and he doesn’t want to be traded. It’s simple.”
    https://leaderpost.com/sports/hockey...box=1669841989
    Last edited by Reider; Yesterday at 04:24 AM.

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