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Thread: 2019-2020 - November& DEcember Games - Drown your sorrows over the season here!

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by booboo View Post
    What's the scoop on Zamula? Why was he ever traded??? He'd look very good on your defence?
    They didn't trade him, they released him in favour of Hajek, who was light years ahead of him in talent and development at the time. It was a good idea at the time, given that they were hosting the Memorial Cup tournament, but it allowed the worst team in the league at the time, Calgary to just claim him.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectionNDeserter View Post
    but it allowed the worst team in the league at the time, Calgary to just claim him.
    if another team upgrades their import spots this season - maybe we could pickup another import given our record .....................

  3. #43

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    For those of you who don't fully appreciate or understand how important the bantam draft is and how important it is to not only have lots of picks for deep bantam drafts, but also to then follow through and make the right picks, I want to point you to the 2013 bantam draft.

    First of all, the Pats nailed the Sam Steel pick. But after him?

    Instead of picking:

    Liam Schioler
    Luc Smith
    Brady Pouteau
    Jared Freadrich
    Jacob Elmer
    Kurtis Chapman
    Brady Third

    The Pats literally could have had:
    Josh Mahura
    Cale Fleury
    Kailer Yamamoto
    Morgan Geekie
    Max Gerlach
    Carter Hart
    Sahvan Khaira (or Dennis Cholowski, take your pick)

    Instead of winning nothing, the Pats could have essentially won back to back WHL Championships without emptying the cupboards. Don't forget, the Pats already had or acquired players like Steel, Brooks, Wagner, Hobbs, Leedahl, Henry, Leschychyn, Zborovskiy, Max Paddock, Pouteau etc.. and they wouldn't have had to pay a massive price to get Mahura because they would have already drafted him!

    I know that nobody is psychic and it's impossible to know exactly how every player will turn out. My only intention is to show how important the bantam draft is and how much ground the Pats could make up on other teams by simply nailing one deep draft. Even if the Pats would have gotten a couple of these picks right (e.g. Mahura over Schioler and Hart over Chapman), it still would have made a huge difference. Don't underestimate the importance of the bantam draft.
    Last edited by Reider; 12-27-2019 at 02:04 AM.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reider View Post
    For those of you who don't fully appreciate or understand how important the bantam draft is and how important it is to not only have lots of picks for deep bantam drafts, but also to then follow through and make the right picks, I want to point you to the 2013 bantam draft.

    First of all, the Pats nailed the Sam Steel pick. But after him?

    Instead of picking:

    Liam Schioler
    Luc Smith
    Brady Pouteau
    Jared Freadrich
    Jacob Elmer
    Kurtis Chapman
    Brady Third

    The Pats literally could have had:
    Josh Mahura
    Cale Fleury
    Kailer Yamamoto
    Morgan Geekie
    Max Gerlach
    Carter Hart
    Sahvan Khaira (or Dennis Cholowski, take your pick)

    Instead of winning nothing, the Pats could have essentially won back to back WHL Championships without emptying the cupboards. Don't forget, the Pats already had or acquired players like Steel, Brooks, Wagner, Hobbs, Leedahl, Henry, Leschychyn, Zborovskiy, Max Paddock, Pouteau etc.. and they wouldn't have had to pay a massive price to get Mahura because they would have already drafted him!

    I know that nobody is psychic and it's impossible to know exactly how every player will turn out. My only intention is to show how important the bantam draft is and how much ground the Pats could make up on other teams by simply nailing one deep draft. Even if the Pats would have gotten a couple of these picks right (e.g. Mahura over Schioler and Hart over Chapman), it still would have made a huge difference. Don't underestimate the importance of the bantam draft.
    To be fair, even if we selected all those players, only two or three would've been added to the team since you can't have seven 16 or 17 year olds, and expect each to develop properly. These kids compete with each other for the spots, and the left over others would've had to get pretty lucky to get picked up by other teams with an open spot, and also make up for the lack of quality ice time they didn't get as a 16 in junior A OR in a bottom 6 whl role. Even with thst group we would still have a few "busts" by virtue of competition for only a few spots.

    I think everybody can agree there's always room for improvement for the scouting. Its a hard job. But the development of players is more important. There are things you can control for, like the character of the kid and their ambitions. Things like that. Most of the rest comes down to development. Many of these same teams churn out these successful early bloomer players not solely because of rolling the dice well at the bantam draft, but because the organization surrounds them with the right veteran talent on and off the ice, and quality coaches to help them along with right amount of ice time exposure, proper attention, line matchups, positive reinforcement and necessary benching and so on...

    The theme I've noticed with many on here is a dissatisfaction with the current staff, and this is yet another indirect swipe at them. I've made it clear I'm content with the current group, but reasonable people will differ. Some staffs are resoundingly praised or criticized, with many receiving a mixture of the two. Everyone was swinging on paddocks nuts when we had a few great years and now the rebound affect has happened. I'm on the side of trusting the plan and I believe many will sing a different tune soon enough when we have a new franchise player, and some returning depth in the future.

  5. #45

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    Interesting to see the Pats acquire 17 year old import Jan Cikhart. His 1G and 3A this year dont jump off the page. Basically traded a 4th rounder in the future for a shot to see an import play for 3 months. As was proven this year, there are no guarantees in the import draft.

    I am looking forward to see the Pats back at it this week, may even need to take a road trip tonight.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Some_Arrogant_Jerk View Post
    To be fair, even if we selected all those players, only two or three would've been added to the team since you can't have seven 16 or 17 year olds, and expect each to develop properly.
    But that's the point I was also trying to make... forget picking all of them, two (or three) of them would have made a huge difference. Liam Schioler and Luc Smith had opportunity and had full WHL careers. Replace those guys with Mahura and Gerlach. Brady Pouteau had perhaps less of an opportunity or wasn't showing enough and was traded away only to be re-acquired later on. But there was definitely opportunity for the young players. If they show up at camp and show that they can play, they're going to get more opportunities. Even picking 2-4 of those guys would have made a huge difference. Mahura, Gerlach and Hart would have been huge. Max Gerlach scored 30 goals as a 17 year old. The Pats paid dearly for an 18 year old Josh Mahura and Carter Hart was one of the best, if not the best, goaltenders in the entire country in his age group. Where are the Pats with those 3 players? And yes, those 3 would have been given every opportunity, especially scoring 30 goals as a 17 year old.

    My original point is that the bantam draft, especially the deep bantam drafts, are ripe with opportunity. I know it's easier said than done as it's impossible to predict the future, but If the Pats can nail the bantam draft or at least capitalize on 2-4 picks like I gave in the 2013 example, the Pats can make up a lot of ground on a lot of teams. People should not underestimate the opportunity at the bantam draft. It's much better to draft a player in the draft than to pay another team multiple first round draft picks for said player a few years down the road.
    Last edited by Reider; 12-27-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Some_Arrogant_Jerk View Post
    To be fair, even if we selected all those players, only two or three would've been added to the team since you can't have seven 16 or 17 year olds, and expect each to develop properly.
    This right here. Also, the logistics involved in getting that many highly-touted players, with all their different agents, to all agree to sign a SPA with your team at the same time would be pretty unrealistic.

  8. #48

    Default Better couting/Drafting

    Reider's comments are understandable to anyone who cares to read carefully! They are well thought out and articulated. He is one of the more intelligent posters on this site, so he clearly knows that Paddock had nothing to do with the 2013 Draft or for that matter the 2014 Draft. Those were handled in 2013 by Parker, McMullen, and Kutzak. In 2014 it was handled by McMullen. Kutzak and Lang. There is no doubt he is quite aware that JP had nothing to do with those drafts. It's unfortunate that it was suggested he was taking a swipe at the current management of this team. He would have done so directly if he had wanted to IMO. All he was saying was that had a few better choices been made in 2013, we may not have had to trade for those very players we acquired later. Those players which to a large extent we often overpaid for……Some people may be infatuated with JP and think he's the best thing since sliced bread….thats fine it's an opinion! Others may have a much different opinion…thats fine it's an opinion! That's just the way it is. Maybe this is something worth remembering: Opinions are like butts. Everyone has one and everyone thinks the other guys butt stinks!

    Had we we drafted some or all of those kids mentioned in Reider's second grouping of his post, they would have no doubt all signed on with the Pats. We had Steel, Brooks, Burroughs, Williams, Hunt and many more. These kids were all 14 year old pencil necks and were happy to be drafted, and no doubt would have signed here like the others we drafted eventually did. Does anyone logically think Carter Hart taken in the 8th round would have really cared where he went? Most of these kids were just draftees and weren't higher end talents for at least 4 years after they were drafted, so that logic doesn't hold any water.

    What that post underscores is that we have to do a better job of identifying talent. Along with top picks we need to ensure that 3rd and 4th round picks aren't used on USA kids who never ever wear a Pats uniform. We need to find some talented offensive forwards in the later rounds and have them produce. We located a good goalie in Max, and a pretty good d-man in Ryker Evans. Now we need to find a forward or two who can come in as a rookie and produce points. Much like Lambert in Tri-Cities and Kozak in Portland are doing.

  9. #49

    Default Home and Home with MJ/Hit on Stanick

    Quote Originally Posted by Pats7 View Post
    Interesting to see the Pats acquire 17 year old import Jan Cikhart. His 1G and 3A this year dont jump off the page. Basically traded a 4th rounder in the future for a shot to see an import play for 3 months. As was proven this year, there are no guarantees in the import draft.

    I am looking forward to see the Pats back at it this week, may even need to take a road trip tonight.
    I agree that is how this will likely work out.

    I'm sure any compensation for him would have to do with how long he plays here and number of games played, points produced etc. If he doesn't show well he will likely be cut loose and allowed to re-enter the Import Draft next year.

    As far as Cikhart the player, he did come with some pretty high credentials. He was Czechoslovakia's best player in the U17 last year and played in a 19 year old league. He was deemed to be one of the best in his country. I look forward to seeing what he brings. One thing of note is that the Eastern Conference is known as a bit more of a skilled league so he might find the game out here a bit more to his liking. I look forward to seeing what he brings.

    On a different note I watched the game last night and thought the Pats did alright for having a long break and turkey legs. The game was free on-line for those interested and will be again tonight. Scoring was spread around and I thought the defence played pretty well.

    I was a little miffed that the hit on Stanick didn't result in a Major penalty against Hardy. The second I saw it I could see the guy raise up and target the head. Stanick didn't hit his head on the ice nor did he get cut by the visor but he bled substantially. Then when they showed the replay it was painfully obvious the head had been targeted. I thought they were trying to clean this up. Apparently not so! If one of our 20 year old guys had have targeted a MJ rookies head like that there would have been war, ejections, suspensions. I most certainly hope that JP files today for supplemental discipline.

    It's going to be tough sledding down the stretch for sure. The Pats were able to keep pace but wouldn't you know it; both PG and SC also won last night against top teams. If we could get tonights games then we jump over MJ. As a point of interest I wonder how long it will be before Braden Tracey is moved..can't see MJ not doing it.
    Last edited by chopper; 12-28-2019 at 12:01 PM.

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